About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
soon, that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.

Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.




That was a pretty compelling video (picture worth a 1000 words)! I like
the way it reaches in the corners.

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
wrote in message
I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.




That was a pretty compelling video (picture worth a 1000 words)! I like
the way it reaches in the corners.

Bill

If I already did not have a Festool Rotex 125 the rectangle Festool 400 and
a Fein Multimaster I'd be waiting with out patience.

On Oct 18, 5:24*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:

About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
soon, that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

sunsabitches....... I neeeeeed one.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:24:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
soon, that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.

Mike M

On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.


Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.

Jim

On 10/18/2010 4:24 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
soon, that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.

I agree on the time and cleanup.

Jim

"Mike M" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:24:56 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
soon, that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.

Mike M

I don't find it much quieter than my old PC right angle ROS unless you are
talking about the quiet from the vac also, but it took me about a year to
get use to no seeing dust. It really does make you wonder if you are doing
anything until you slide your hand across the surface.

"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in message
m...


On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.


Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.


Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.


My guess between $375 and $475.

On Oct 19, 4:30*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in messagenews:UIGdnTm3p64cOSDRnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@super news.com...







On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
*wrote in message
om...
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.

Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.

Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.

My guess between $375 and $475.

Under 400... has to be.

"Leon" wrote in
:


"Mike M" wrote in message
...


I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.

Mike M

I don't find it much quieter than my old PC right angle ROS unless you
are talking about the quiet from the vac also, but it took me about a
year to get use to no seeing dust. It really does make you wonder if
you are doing anything until you slide your hand across the surface.


How are these on vibration? I can't use half the sanders out there
because they simply vibrate too much.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in
messagenews:UIGdnTm3p64cOSDRnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@super news.com...







On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
om...
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop
Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So
off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times
a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died
Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS
125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that
is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
that will be next on my list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4

Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.

Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex
sanders
but a detail sander too.

Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.

My guess between $375 and $475.

Under 400... has to be.



If you assume that it should be less expensive as it is smaller than the
others but this thing also has a third ossilation mode for detail sanding
along with an extra sanding pad.

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
eb.com...
"Leon" wrote in
:


"Mike M" wrote in message
...


I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.

Mike M

I don't find it much quieter than my old PC right angle ROS unless you
are talking about the quiet from the vac also, but it took me about a
year to get use to no seeing dust. It really does make you wonder if
you are doing anything until you slide your hand across the surface.


How are these on vibration? I can't use half the sanders out there
because they simply vibrate too much.

Festool has a couple of "normal/standard" ROS with round disks. And the
ETS125 is absolutely silky smooth and you can simply set it down on the
work, turned on, and guide/push it with your finger if you chose to do that.
;~) Although not as aggressive as the Rotex sanders.

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/o...er-571610.html

The Rotex sanders naturally have a bit more vibration especially in their
"belt sander" aggressive mode. My rectangle pad RTS400 sander does not make
my hand tingle after extensive use like both of my older PC SpeedBloc finish
sanders did and those things were pretty nice.

500... 1000 with the vac.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:41:29 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in

Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.

My guess between $375 and $475.

Under 400... has to be.

But you'll simply _have_ to have those extras and options which bring
the total up to a mere $3,975.43, won't you? I knew you would.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On Oct 19, 9:13*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:41:29 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:



"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in
Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.

My guess between $375 and $475.

Under 400... has to be.

But you'll simply _have_ to have those extras and options which bring
the total up to a mere $3,975.43, won't you? *I knew you would. *


I only buy what I know will pay for itself, and as I am retired, that
has raised the bar quite high. I love a good tool as much as the next
guy, and I could (most of the time) justify buying Festool grade
tools. No tool works harder or smarter than a Festool.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:46:53 -0500, Jim in Milwaukee
wrote:

About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.

Piece of advice, I find I get much better results with the white
"brilliant" paper than the red "rubin" which gave me no end of trouble
with swirl marks.

-Kevin

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Oct 19, 9:13*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:41:29 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in
Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.

My guess between $375 and $475.

Under 400... has to be.

But you'll simply _have_ to have those extras and options which bring
the total up to a mere $3,975.43, won't you? *I knew you would. *


I only buy what I know will pay for itself, and as I am retired, that

Same here, but I can easily get by with HF (and American-made) tools
for most work. I needed a -good- impactor and have had both Bosch and
Makita now. Both were both necessary and worth it. I'm not retired,
I's just po workin' folk.


has raised the bar quite high. I love a good tool as much as the next
guy, and I could (most of the time) justify buying Festool grade
tools. No tool works harder or smarter than a Festool.

I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
above the rest.

Other than greed, I cannot fathom why Fein would price a tool at $400
when a nearly identical one is imported and sold by HF for $30.
Granted, a tool utilizing a brand-new, good idea is worth more than an
everyday tool, but 12x. How does that saying go? "...and the horse
that rode in on them." or something.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On 10/20/2010 8:39 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Same here, but I can easily get by with HF (and American-made) tools
for most work. I needed a -good- impactor and have had both Bosch and
Makita now. Both were both necessary and worth it. I'm not retired,
I's just po workin' folk.


has raised the bar quite high. I love a good tool as much as the next
guy, and I could (most of the time) justify buying Festool grade
tools. No tool works harder or smarter than a Festool.

I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
above the rest.

How does that saying go? "...and the horse
that rode in on them." or something.

My favorite, much more true and to the point:

"You get what your pay for!"

If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool TS75 for $500. In
five years time it will have been instrumental in making you a minimum
of $200k. It has cost you thus far $4/month for unparalleled utility and
reliability.

In another five, and ten, after that, it was paid for and you're still
using a tool that has a lifetime of use left in it.

Try that with your HF tool ...

I have an Omer nailer, and a HF nailer of the same ilk ... vast
difference in cost/quality, but one is disposable and the other will be
working for my grandkids kids and won't leave me stranded on a job site
200 miles from the shop.

Your choice ... If wwing is a hobby, of course your YMWV.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 10/20/2010 9:31 AM, Swingman wrote:

If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool TS75 for $500. In
five years time it will have been instrumental in making you a minimum
of $200k. It has cost you thus far $4/month for unparalleled utility and
reliability.

Correction: That's five inches and one and a half sixteenths, or $10/month.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
above the rest.

Other than greed, I cannot fathom why Fein would price a tool at $400
when a nearly identical one is imported and sold by HF for $30.
Granted, a tool utilizing a brand-new, good idea is worth more than an
everyday tool, but 12x. How does that saying go? "...and the horse
that rode in on them." or something.


Think Yugo vs. BMW

Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?


Additionally the HF tool has a regular price of $60 now and is on sale for
$40.
http://www.harborfreight.com/multifu...ool-67256.html

And The Fein Multimaster can be had for $209 shipped and equipped with
similar blades as the above tool.
http://www.amazon.com/Fein-MultiMast...7584793&sr=8-3

So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.

I see your point, if you don't need a the features of a premium tool, get
the cheapo one. But if you don't have time to deal with a tool that may
waist your time the better quality is the better bet. Basically you get
what you pay for.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 10/20/2010 9:31 AM, Swingman wrote:

If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool TS75 for $500. In
five years time it will have been instrumental in making you a minimum
of $200k. It has cost you thus far $4/month for unparalleled utility and
reliability.

Correction: That's five inches and one and a half sixteenths, or
$10/month.



Crap! you are really leaving me behind with your fancy math, I'da thought
163/32's or maybe 129 and one third mm's.

Plain mm's

;~)

On Oct 20, 10:31*am, Swingman wrote:


"You get what your pay for!"

If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool etc etc [snipped for brevity]

In another five, and ten, after that, it was paid for and you're still
using a tool that has a lifetime of use left in it.



Your choice ... If wwing is a hobby, of course your YMWV.


The first Festool sander was bought for a particular need/use for a
nasty (black) solid surface top. I made that one job pay for that
sander... I didn't make a whole lot of net profit as a result, but I
made out just fine with all the other tops afterwards. Also, that
sander allowed me to be less apprehensive when I sold a darker
coloured countertop, so my market widened somewhat.
Aside from reliability and utility, there is capability; jobs you
wouldn't otherwise tackle.

On that note, I just started a project. I will write about it over the
next few days under a separate thread. It's quite mmmmm interesting.
G (Can you say OLD-ish building from 1890 which wants to be an Irish
pub? The paint crew started on one of the two facades this Monday. )

On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.


I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....

Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
to match the website price if it's cheaper.

Drum equipment manufactures are notorious for having ridiculously,
artificially inflated retail list prices. Cymbals, heads, etc., always
have a sale price of 50% off list. I'm not going to pretend the normal
price of a pair of sticks is 14 bucks, when I know they always sell for $7.

In the case of Fein, their quality speaks on its own. Being 3-1/2 or 6
times as expensive is irrelevant in the debate, to me, at least.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Oct 20, 11:49*am, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:

So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.

I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....

Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
to match the website price if it's cheaper.

Drum equipment manufactures are notorious for having ridiculously,
artificially inflated retail list prices. Cymbals, heads, etc., always
have a sale price of 50% off list. I'm not going to pretend the normal
price of a pair of sticks is 14 bucks, when I know they always sell for $7.

In the case of Fein, their quality speaks on its own. Being 3-1/2 or 6
times as expensive is irrelevant in the debate, to me, at least.

The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.

On 10/20/10 1:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:

The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.


The metal mugs are about to disintegrate off of my oak snare drum. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal
pricing.


I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....

Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
to match the website price if it's cheaper.


Just trying to compare apples to apples. While you can expect a discounted
price on HF I wanted to show what HF has on their web site. The Fein goes
on sale also.

The Fein was not $400 the HF was not $60. You can only make an educated
comparison with data at hand.

Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.

On Oct 20, 8:33*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??

"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.

Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

In article , says...

Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??

Oak rust don't hold a candle to Jummywood rust . . .

Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.



"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

Is the candle wax put on before or after the stain?


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
Oak rust don't hold a candle to Jummywood rust . . .



In article , says...
Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:34:24 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
above the rest.

Other than greed, I cannot fathom why Fein would price a tool at $400
when a nearly identical one is imported and sold by HF for $30.
Granted, a tool utilizing a brand-new, good idea is worth more than an
everyday tool, but 12x. How does that saying go? "...and the horse
that rode in on them." or something.


Think Yugo vs. BMW

Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?

Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them
as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.


Additionally the HF tool has a regular price of $60 now and is on sale for
$40.
http://www.harborfreight.com/multifu...ool-67256.html

And The Fein Multimaster can be had for $209 shipped and equipped with
similar blades as the above tool.
http://www.amazon.com/Fein-MultiMast...7584793&sr=8-3

So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.

When Fein came out with them, they cost $400+. I hadn't checked the
price since, so mea culpa. But with this month's sales, HF's is
$29.95 and the Fein is still seven times more expensive, more if you
have a 20% off coupon from HF, too.


I see your point, if you don't need a the features of a premium tool, get
the cheapo one. But if you don't have time to deal with a tool that may
waist your time the better quality is the better bet. Basically you get
what you pay for.

I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Oct 20, 11:49*am, -MIKE- wrote:
On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:

So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.

I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....

Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
to match the website price if it's cheaper.

Drum equipment manufactures are notorious for having ridiculously,
artificially inflated retail list prices. Cymbals, heads, etc., always
have a sale price of 50% off list. I'm not going to pretend the normal
price of a pair of sticks is 14 bucks, when I know they always sell for $7.

In the case of Fein, their quality speaks on its own. Being 3-1/2 or 6
times as expensive is irrelevant in the debate, to me, at least.

The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.

HAH! I've used my HF at least a dozen times seriously now, and I've
yet to see one single granule of oak rust anywhere around it or on it.
So there, Mr. Smartypants.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:34:24 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

Think Yugo vs. BMW

Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?

Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them
as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.


I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?


Anti-tilt lever?

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:04:13 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:34:24 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

Think Yugo vs. BMW

Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?

Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them
as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.


I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?


Anti-tilt lever?

From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download

"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."


--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?


Anti-tilt lever?

From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download

"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."

From what I've read only:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 20, 9:21*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "**** you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.

R