On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?


Anti-tilt lever?

From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download

"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."

From what I've read only:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.


Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady. shrug

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:44:26 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 20, 9:21*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "**** you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.

Add him to your twit filter and be done with the damned troll, Reeky.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "**** you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.

Yep, it is a simple setting.

It is called a kill file.

Do that, you won't have to deal with it. And the rest of us won't have to
either.

On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, wrote:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).

It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to
kickback is most notable according to its owners.

Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience.

But I can ...

But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady.shrug

You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the
window and is inoperative.

A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75
would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions.

I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego
clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.

After gaining some experience you learn to trust the system for what it
was designed to do, and you find that you very rarely need to clamp the
guide rails to the workpiece, even on beveled cuts.

It's a new way of working ... and thinking.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 10/21/2010 12:44 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, wrote:
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.

wrote in message

...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "**** you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.

R

I for one try real hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, and because he
does post on-topic at least half the time, I (and several others) have tried
many times (more times than he deserves) to convince this dip**** to use a
helpful posting style, but he flat-out refuses. He thinks it's a funny little
game, and he's just "oh so amused" that so many people have such a problem with
it. The more that people bitch at him about it, the more happy it makes him;
in fact, I'm convinced it gives him a woody. I truly think he's too stupid to
fix it, so he compensates by making fun of everybody who complains about it.

--
Repeat after me:
"I am we Todd it. I am sofa king we Todd it."
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Oct 21, 11:51*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:
On 10/21/2010 12:44 PM, RicodJour wrote:





On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, *wrote:
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.

*wrote in message

....
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. *I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "**** you." * I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. *I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.

R

I for one try real hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, and because he
does post on-topic at least half the time, I (and several others) have tried
many times (more times than he deserves) to convince this dip**** to use a
helpful posting style, but he flat-out refuses. *He thinks it's a funny little
game, and he's just "oh so amused" that so many people have such a problem with
it. *The more that people bitch at him about it, the more happy it makes him;
in fact, I'm convinced it gives him a woody. *I truly think he's too stupid to
fix it, so he compensates by making fun of everybody who complains about it.

Ahhhhh!! Brilliant deduction. Not that he doesn't want to change,
he's not able...Bingo!

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:38:20 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, wrote:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).

Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I
can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal
stresses that badly dried woods do.


It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to
kickback is most notable according to its owners.

Well, yeah, that type of cut would give you the most feedback. But
I've never had much (unless I slip) feedback with my old circ saw
doing plunge cuts, rotating the saw off its butt into the panel.
And that with HF blades! The shame...

Speaking of blades, have you Festering owners tried the Oslun brand of
blades? http://fwd4.me/iqB $20.



But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady.shrug

You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the
window and is inoperative.

OK. I guess the balance is better than I thought.


A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75
would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions.

I got to handle them at the local home center's toolmonger day, but
they didn't have any plugins, so I couldn't hear the DC or cut with
the TS55.


I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego
clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.

After gaining some experience you learn to trust the system for what it
was designed to do, and you find that you very rarely need to clamp the
guide rails to the workpiece, even on beveled cuts.

Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?


It's a new way of working ... and thinking.

So it would seem.

--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch

It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.


"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "**** you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.

R


On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.

I can read any style just fine.

"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.

That was quick. I rest my case.


"Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote in message
eb.com...
It is called a kill file.

Do that, you won't have to deal with it. And the rest of us won't have to
either.

It also helps identify the trolls very quickly.

No need to change to match them.


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
Ahhhhh!! Brilliant deduction. Not that he doesn't want to change,
he's not able...Bingo!

Josepi wrote:
It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.

How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?

Bill

Very easy to float above swine!
Clueless egotistical swathes of carbon chips LOL LOL


Bill wrote in message

Josepi wrote:
It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.

How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?

Bill

On Oct 21, 4:38*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, *wrote:
The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? *Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).

It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to
kickback is most notable according to its owners.



Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience.

But I can ...

But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady.shrug

You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the
window and is inoperative.

A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75
would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions.

I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego
clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.

Yep. The first couple of times I was thinking, "This is too easy."
The next few cuts, and all of the cuts after that, I was thinking,
"I'm a schmuck for not getting this earlier."

R

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:06:16 -0400, Bill wrote:

Josepi wrote:
It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.

How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?

Bill, PDFTFT!

--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals

Josepi wrote:
Very easy to float above swine!
Clueless egotistical swathes of carbon chips LOL LOL

Delusions of grandeur, huh? Don't allow it to consume your days...




wrote in message

Josepi wrote:
It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.

How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?

Bill

I rest another case.

Smells like another Doug Miller troll.




"Josepi" wrote in message
...

Very easy to float above swine!
Clueless egotistical swathes of carbon chips LOL LOL


Bill wrote in message

How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?

Bill



Josepi wrote:
It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since
threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?


Anti-tilt lever?

From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download

"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."

From what I've read only:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

Well first off what makes you think it is only used on panel projects, I
have used mine on regular wood also. The Festool saw is meant to cut
anything you would normally cut with a circular saw, maybe the Makita is
not.



Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady. shrug

At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:38:20 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, wrote:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not
have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).

Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I
can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal
stresses that badly dried woods do.

Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
prevent kick back.


Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?

The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction pads
on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't attract
dust either.

"Leon" wrote

"Larry Jaques" wrote
Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?

The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction
pads on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't
attract dust either.

Yabbut,...... it takes awhile to gain confidence in their stickiness. :-)

Max

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:14:14 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?


Anti-tilt lever?

From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download

"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."

From what I've read only:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

Well first off what makes you think it is only used on panel projects, I

I said "primarily", not "only", Leon.


have used mine on regular wood also. The Festool saw is meant to cut
anything you would normally cut with a circular saw, maybe the Makita is
not.

The Makita is an improved clone. gd&r Why wouldn't it be used in
the same manner as a green F unit?



Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady. shrug

At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.

OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
else.

--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:19:57 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:38:20 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, wrote:

The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not
have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.

Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).

Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I
can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal
stresses that badly dried woods do.

Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
prevent kick back.

How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?


Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?

The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction pads
on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't attract
dust either.

OK.

--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
prevent kick back.

How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?


So far 50%


That is going to become a smaller number however as I have a bunch of panel
projects coming up.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:14:14 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady. shrug

At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.

OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
else.


It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 23:43:06 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
prevent kick back.

How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?


So far 50%

Amazing.


That is going to become a smaller number however as I have a bunch of panel
projects coming up.

Ayup.

How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

On 10/23/2010 11:44 PM, Leon wrote:
"Larry wrote in message

At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.

OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
else.


It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.

I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally
unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.

The "anti-tilt" is a good idea ONLY on very short bevel cuts, ONLY if
the guide rail is clamped to the work piece and the underlying
cutting/table surface, ONLY if the saw is being improperly operated on
the short cut, and, more to the point, ONLY because it has no riving knife.

In the middle of a _long_ bevel cut, and since guide rails are clamped
only at the ends, no anti-tilt lever made will keep a long guide rail
from flexing slightly and lifting off the work piece without proper
handling by the operator.

This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even
in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.

(simply holding either saw securely, and with a consistent down and
forward motion it proper operation, and is all that is necessary with a
saw equipped with a riving knife)

Any piece of equipment must be operated properly, and anything that
gives the operator a false sense of security often ends up extremely
dangerous.

You can bet that this is one of the reasons you rarely hear about a
kickback problem with either Festool plunge saw.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:17:55 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 10/23/2010 11:44 PM, Leon wrote:
"Larry wrote in message

At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.

OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
else.


It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.

I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally
unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.

The "anti-tilt" is a good idea ONLY on very short bevel cuts, ONLY if
the guide rail is clamped to the work piece and the underlying
cutting/table surface, ONLY if the saw is being improperly operated on
the short cut, and, more to the point, ONLY because it has no riving knife.

In the middle of a _long_ bevel cut, and since guide rails are clamped
only at the ends, no anti-tilt lever made will keep a long guide rail
from flexing slightly and lifting off the work piece without proper
handling by the operator.

This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even
in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.

(simply holding either saw securely, and with a consistent down and
forward motion it proper operation, and is all that is necessary with a
saw equipped with a riving knife)

Any piece of equipment must be operated properly, and anything that
gives the operator a false sense of security often ends up extremely
dangerous.

My opinion is that you're overstating things along this line. Safe and
proper operation should be a "given" hypothesis.


You can bet that this is one of the reasons you rarely hear about a
kickback problem with either Festool plunge saw.

Either that or they think "Dayum, this saw cost so much, it couldn't
have kicked back unless I was doing something wrong. I won't say
anything about it because it's _all_my_fault_!" snort

--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

Larry Jaques wrote:

How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?

I have a protool (made by festool) non-plunge saw with riving knife.
It's become my main saw (with tracks and an older MFT) for everything
including ripping. I'm one of those people without a table saw though. I
do a lot of plywood so my ripping solid timber is probably more like
10%. It'd be nice if festool was better at handling rips of long narrow
pieces - their system really requires support pieces and the workpiece
clamped to a surface. (in that application I think the eurekazone system
has an edge with it's dual clamping tracks underneath.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:08:22 GMT, scatter
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?

I have a protool (made by festool) non-plunge saw with riving knife.
It's become my main saw (with tracks and an older MFT) for everything
including ripping. I'm one of those people without a table saw though. I
do a lot of plywood so my ripping solid timber is probably more like
10%.

Thanks for the feedback.

It'd be nice if festool was better at handling rips of long narrow
pieces - their system really requires support pieces and the workpiece

I take it that you don't have the Festool MFT table?


clamped to a surface. (in that application I think the eurekazone system
has an edge with it's dual clamping tracks underneath.

I hadn't heard of Eurekazone until now. Festering prices there, too,
eh? Do you own one of these as well?

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

On 10/24/2010 3:30 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:17:55 -0500, Swingman wrote:

I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally
unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.

This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even
in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.

My opinion is that you're overstating things along this line.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Mine is based on considerable
use and operation of the particular genre of tool (rail guided plunge
saw) ... yours, admittedly not.

Anyone is free to decide for themselves which opinion has the most merit.

Safe and
proper operation should be a "given" hypothesis.

The only time "safe and proper operation" becomes a "given hypothesis"
is immediately following the first accident ...

Either that or they think "Dayum, this saw cost so much, it couldn't
have kicked back unless I was doing something wrong. I won't say
anything about it because it's _all_my_fault_!"snort

What is indeed a "given" is that these tools are not for everyone.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote

What is indeed a "given" is that these tools are not for everyone.

Then there is the "given" that some people should never operate power tools
under any circumstances.

From there, I suppose, there is a continuum of comfort level for each kind
of tool. And there is a whole lot of hysteria and emotion concerning
different types and classes of tools.

The ultimate demonization of a tool would be the radial arm saw. I grew up
around them and used them for many years without any kind of problem. But
many folks, who don't understand that spinning saw blades are inherently
dangerous, cut off portions of their anatomy with them. Therefore, these
saws are "bad". Or at least, politically incorrect.

Now we see another process at work. A super critical perspective of tools
"that cost too much". But cost is relative. The folks who buy many tools
are using them for their business. If the tool isn't doing its job, you
would hear about it.

I may lust after tools I can't afford. But I am not going to whine about the
tools because it is not in my price range. Nor am I going to whine about it
if I can not justify the expense of the tool based on my current or future
use of such a tool. If these tools did not perform a useful function, they
would cease to be a viable product to manufacture and distribute.

Nuff said, end of rant.

On 10/27/2010 12:49 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Swingman" wrote

The ultimate demonization of a tool would be the radial arm saw. I grew
up around them and used them for many years without any kind of problem.
But many folks, who don't understand that spinning saw blades are
inherently dangerous, cut off portions of their anatomy with them.
Therefore, these saws are "bad". Or at least, politically incorrect.

I used a RAS almost exclusively as the 'goto' tool to build a couple of
recording studios years ago. Have always have had a healthy respect for
the tool, and got excellent results using it. (I don't think there was
such a thing as a SCMS in those days)

That said, the pucker factor still goes up to this day when I see/got to
use a RAS, which is probably a good thing.

That said, a router with a big bit, or an angle or taper cut on the
table saw can flex the sphincter just as easily as the RAS for me.

Now we see another process at work. A super critical perspective of
tools "that cost too much". But cost is relative. The folks who buy many
tools are using them for their business. If the tool isn't doing its
job, you would hear about it.

Quality is expensive upfront, cheap over the useful life of the tool.

I may lust after tools I can't afford. But I am not going to whine about
the tools because it is not in my price range. Nor am I going to whine
about it if I can not justify the expense of the tool based on my
current or future use of such a tool. If these tools did not perform a
useful function, they would cease to be a viable product to manufacture
and distribute.

Nuff said, end of rant.

Good rant ... I buy whatever it makes business sense to buy to do the
best job possible in the most efficient manner, and always try to build
a purchase into the price of a job, or two.

When the pleasure from using a tool coincides with a legitimate business
justification to purchase it, it feels good on all counts, including the
fact that you're doing something right.

That counts for all "tools", from hand to software.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Larry Jaques wrote:

I take it that you don't have the Festool MFT table?

I do. It's an older mft800. It's great for cross cutting or for working
on pieces already cut so that they'll fit on the table. Believe it or
not, it's best feature for me are the precision placed holes. It's
trivial to make 90 or 45 degree cuts. Guides and stop blocks are easy to
clamp down.


I hadn't heard of Eurekazone until now. Festering prices there, too,
eh? Do you own one of these as well?

Yeah, it's what I started with many years ago. The tracks and clamps are
good but I was disappointed by the workmanship of many accessories. I
use my 2 Ezone tracks for cutting stuff down to size or for long, very
thin rips.