You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".

However, when I go looking for instructions, most are calling for
1/2" ply or phenolic. The differences in thickness are usually
handled by rabbeting the ZCI so it sits flush.

To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?

I've been looking at what's out there for sale in the already
made category and Leecraft has a minor sale on at Woodcraft
(I think).

Does anyone have a JWTS-10 and purchased a Leecraft ZCI?
If so, do they undercut (rabbet) around the edge to fit in the throat?
Meaning, is it 1/2" thick?

Cheez, you'd think this would be so easy. Woodcraft has a sale
coming up this weekend, so I thought I'd grab the necessary
material to "roll my own", but now I'm just caught in my
own analysis paralysis. Somebody help me to reboot!

Thanks,

MJ

On 7/19/10 8:53 PM, wrote:
You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".


To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?


It is easy and yes, you're thinking too much. Been there and was amazed
at how easy it was, after I finally just did it instead of planning it.

I used quality 3/4 Finnish birch plywood, then used a planer to get it
down to pefect thickness.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikeadid...earanceInsert#

Check out this video...
http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/146/...e-dado-insert/
It's a pretty good technique.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I used quality 3/4 Finnish birch plywood, then used a planer to get it
down to pefect thickness.http://picasaweb.google.com/mikeadid...earanceInsert#

Check out this video...http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/146/...o-clearance-da...
It's a pretty good technique.

I've seen the video before and now caught something that the editor
said, he
said the ply was "close" to the thickness of his standard insert.
Thinner is better,
is what he said.

3/4 ply is WAY thicker by double of what I need. What size did you
plane down
to?

Thanks,

MJ

On Jul 19, 6:53*pm, "
wrote:
You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to *make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".

However, when I go looking for instructions, most are calling for
1/2" ply or phenolic. The differences in thickness are usually
handled by rabbeting the ZCI so it sits flush.

To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?

I've been looking at what's out there for sale in the already
made category and Leecraft has a minor sale on at Woodcraft
(I think).

Does anyone have a JWTS-10 and purchased a Leecraft ZCI?
If so, do they undercut (rabbet) around the edge to fit in the throat?
Meaning, is it 1/2" thick?

Cheez, you'd think this would be so easy. Woodcraft has a sale
coming up this weekend, so I thought I'd grab the necessary
material to "roll my own", but now I'm just caught in my
own analysis paralysis. Somebody help me to reboot!

Just get some 3/8 material: ply, Baltic birch, Plexiglas, phenolic,
lexan, melamine covered termite puke, medium density termite puke,
aluminium, whatever & go for it. It's not as it needs to bear a lot of
weight.

Luigi

On 7/20/10 12:44 AM, wrote:

I used quality 3/4 Finnish birch plywood, then used a planer to get it
down to pefect thickness.http://picasaweb.google.com/mikeadid...earanceInsert#

Check out this video...http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/146/...o-clearance-da...
It's a pretty good technique.

I've seen the video before and now caught something that the editor
said, he
said the ply was "close" to the thickness of his standard insert.
Thinner is better,
is what he said.

3/4 ply is WAY thicker by double of what I need. What size did you
plane down
to?

Thanks,

MJ

I have no idea. I'm guessing it's near 1/2. 1/4" is nothing for a
planer. Heck, 80 grit paper on a flat board would do the trick in a few
minutes with some elbow grease. Just leave the top side untouched to
make sure it stays flat.

The bottom doesn't natter much, especially if you're using leveling screws.

If yours is 3/8", you could start with 1/2" and plane/sand down in no time.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

own analysis paralysis. Somebody help me to reboot!


One reason to use thicker material is flatness. 3/8 material, even
Baltic is less likely to be as flat as 1/2 or thicker. A twisted
insert will be nothing but a pain in the ass. I suppose that is one
reason why people use thicker material. Also weight is a
consideration. You don't want it to be so light it is flighty or
easily upset, you can think of the scenario where it jumps out of the
slot and catches the back of the blade and does a quick fly-by of your
ear.

Finally, please replace your planer blades after planing ply. Really
not a good thing. Glue is super hard and abrasive and probably equal
to 100 times as much wood passes.

Finally, please replace your planer blades after planing ply. Really
not a good thing. Glue is super hard and abrasive and probably equal
to 100 times as much wood passes.


Not sure I buy into that... at least not enough to worry about it.

Also, I don't think you can throw around the term "glue" in the general
sense when it comes to plywood. The stuff they use isn't exactly
carpenters glue, and it's so thin, I suspect it's a non-issue.

In any case, I'll stick to my first statement. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

wrote in message
...
You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".

However, when I go looking for instructions, most are calling for
1/2" ply or phenolic. The differences in thickness are usually
handled by rabbeting the ZCI so it sits flush.

To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?

Exactly what I did with my inserts bit did use 1/2" baltic birch on a JTAS
10L,
BUT make it even easier, put the leveling screws on the bottom and you end
up with a flat top with out holes for debris to collect in. I have never
ever had to readjust the screws after the initial set up.

Exactly what I did with my inserts bit did use 1/2" baltic birch on a JTAS
10L,


Did you rabbett out the bottom to fit? The depth of the leveling
flange
to the top is 3/8".

MJ

On 7/20/10 1:33 PM, wrote:

Exactly what I did with my inserts bit did use 1/2" baltic birch on a JTAS
10L,


Did you rabbett out the bottom to fit? The depth of the leveling
flange
to the top is 3/8".

MJ


Instead of rabbeting, you could simply drill out sections/recesses for
the flanges with an appropriately sized Forstner bit. Even if the
flanges are much longer than wide, you could drill side by side holes
down to 3/8", leaving 3/8", and clean up the resulting recess with a
knife or chisel.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 7/20/10 4:50 PM, Larry W wrote:
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


That's an awesome idea.
Instead of sanding, I guess I would try using a couple rulers or other
straight edges to push it down flush and hold a few seconds while the
glue dries.

If it didn't work the first time, you just pop off the hot glue nubs and
try again.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Instead of rabbeting, you could simply drill out sections/recesses for
the flanges with an appropriately sized Forstner bit. Even if the
flanges are much longer than wide, you could drill side by side holes
down to 3/8", leaving 3/8", and clean up the resulting recess with a
knife or chisel.

That's an excellent idea. Much better than resetting the router
table.
I'm going to try it over the next week.

Thanks for that tip.

MJ

wrote in message
...

Exactly what I did with my inserts bit did use 1/2" baltic birch on a
JTAS
10L,


Did you rabbett out the bottom to fit? The depth of the leveling
flange
to the top is 3/8".

MJ


In my case the depth on the saw is just over 1/2", so no rabbeting.

"Larry W" wrote in message
...
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


Might have been me as I did that many years ago. However I sanded the blobs
until the fit was correct. I later went with putting screws on the bottom.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 7/20/10 4:50 PM, Larry W wrote:
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


That's an awesome idea.
Instead of sanding, I guess I would try using a couple rulers or other
straight edges to push it down flush and hold a few seconds while the
glue dries.

If it didn't work the first time, you just pop off the hot glue nubs and
try again.


Might want to rethink that, it will essentually glue your insert in place.
Put the globs of glue on the insert and then sand the globs to proper
thickness after they harden.

On 7/21/10 12:43 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 7/20/10 4:50 PM, Larry W wrote:
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


That's an awesome idea.
Instead of sanding, I guess I would try using a couple rulers or other
straight edges to push it down flush and hold a few seconds while the
glue dries.

If it didn't work the first time, you just pop off the hot glue nubs and
try again.


Might want to rethink that, it will essentually glue your insert in place.
Put the globs of glue on the insert and then sand the globs to proper
thickness after they harden.



The hot glue I've always used is pretty easy to pop off.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 7/21/10 12:43 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 7/20/10 4:50 PM, Larry W wrote:
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


That's an awesome idea.
Instead of sanding, I guess I would try using a couple rulers or other
straight edges to push it down flush and hold a few seconds while the
glue dries.

If it didn't work the first time, you just pop off the hot glue nubs and
try again.


Might want to rethink that, it will essentually glue your insert in
place.
Put the globs of glue on the insert and then sand the globs to proper
thickness after they harden.



The hot glue I've always used is pretty easy to pop off.


Yeah it pops off easy.... but it is glue, right? And you are going to apply
it and squeeze it between an insert and the table saw tabs, and then how do
you pop it off if it has glued your insert in place?

On Jul 21, 3:09*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...



On 7/21/10 12:43 AM, Leon wrote:
*wrote in message
...
On 7/20/10 4:50 PM, Larry W wrote:
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.

That's an awesome idea.
Instead of sanding, I guess I would try using a couple rulers or other
straight edges to push it down flush and hold a few seconds while the
glue dries.

If it didn't work the first time, you just pop off the hot glue nubs and
try again.

Might want to rethink that, it will essentually glue your insert in
place.
Put the globs of glue on the insert and then sand the globs to proper
thickness after they harden.

The hot glue I've always used is pretty easy to pop off.

Yeah it pops off easy.... but it is glue, right? *And you are going to apply
it and squeeze it between an insert and the table saw tabs, and then how do
you pop it off if it has glued your insert in place?

A. Wax the TS insert fingers first?
B. Whack it from below?
C. Use the finger hole to pry it off?
D. Don't use epoxy?
E. All of the above?

On 7/21/10 3:09 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 7/21/10 12:43 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 7/20/10 4:50 PM, Larry W wrote:
An old tip for leveling ZCI I first saw on this newsgroup,
but can't remember who to credit: Just put a blob of hot-melt
glue at the correct spots on the bottom of the insert, press down
into saw so it's just above flush, then hit the blobs with a block
plane or sandpaper if necessary.


That's an awesome idea.
Instead of sanding, I guess I would try using a couple rulers or other
straight edges to push it down flush and hold a few seconds while the
glue dries.

If it didn't work the first time, you just pop off the hot glue nubs and
try again.


Might want to rethink that, it will essentually glue your insert in
place.
Put the globs of glue on the insert and then sand the globs to proper
thickness after they harden.



The hot glue I've always used is pretty easy to pop off.


Yeah it pops off easy.... but it is glue, right? And you are going to apply
it and squeeze it between an insert and the table saw tabs, and then how do
you pop it off if it has glued your insert in place?


AFAIK, we're talking about drops of hot glue on 4 flanges. In a way they
are like the little rubber feet you might find on the bottom of a lamp.

You mark where the tabs are on the insert, or you squeeze a drop on each
tab/flange.
Press the insert down with a straight edge so it stops flush with the
table top. It'll dry in 20 seconds.

Here's another idea. Put a piece of scotch tape on each flange, before
this procedure. Glue dries to the insert and not the flanges.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/21/10 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Jul 21, 3:09 pm, wrote:
wrote in message
Put the globs of glue on the insert and then sand the globs to proper
thickness after they harden.

The hot glue I've always used is pretty easy to pop off.

Yeah it pops off easy.... but it is glue, right? And you are going to apply
it and squeeze it between an insert and the table saw tabs, and then how do
you pop it off if it has glued your insert in place?

A. Wax the TS insert fingers first?
B. Whack it from below?
C. Use the finger hole to pry it off?
D. Don't use epoxy?
E. All of the above?


Yeah, especially D. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:53:18 -0700, wrote:

You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into analysis
paralysis.

Want to make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some time
ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one on the JET,
same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling flange to the top of
the saw 3/8".

However, when I go looking for instructions, most are calling for 1/2"
ply or phenolic. The differences in thickness are usually handled by
rabbeting the ZCI so it sits flush.

To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I already mount the
flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make a ZCI, trim it,
drill for leveling screws and be done? I just don't know why 1/2
material would be that much better?

I've been looking at what's out there for sale in the already made
category and Leecraft has a minor sale on at Woodcraft (I think).

Does anyone have a JWTS-10 and purchased a Leecraft ZCI? If so, do they
undercut (rabbet) around the edge to fit in the throat? Meaning, is it
1/2" thick?

Cheez, you'd think this would be so easy. Woodcraft has a sale coming up
this weekend, so I thought I'd grab the necessary material to "roll my
own", but now I'm just caught in my own analysis paralysis. Somebody
help me to reboot!

Thanks,

MJ

If it is 3/8" the easiest way may be to use a piece of left over click-
lock style laminate flooring. I had a piece left over from a project.
It was the perfect height for my saw. I trimmed it to fit, dropped it in
place and moved the fence over it so it would not raise up, turned the
saw on and ran the blade to it's highest level. ShaZammm! The perfect,
strong, slick zero clearance insert!
Works real good, lasts long time, and it was FREE!

If it is 3/8" the easiest way may be to use a piece of left over click-
lock style laminate flooring. *I had a piece left over from a project. *
It was the perfect height for my saw. *I trimmed it to fit, dropped it in
place and moved the fence over it so it would not raise up, turned the
saw on and ran the blade to it's highest level. *ShaZammm! *The perfect,
strong, slick zero clearance insert!

Hmm, thanks for the tip, but I don't have any of that material.
All our floors were hardwood, oak. Might be about to use those
by the way. Will check it out.

MJ

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 7/21/10 3:09 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message

AFAIK, we're talking about drops of hot glue on 4 flanges. In a way they
are like the little rubber feet you might find on the bottom of a lamp.

You mark where the tabs are on the insert, or you squeeze a drop on each
tab/flange.
Press the insert down with a straight edge so it stops flush with the
table top. It'll dry in 20 seconds.

Here's another idea. Put a piece of scotch tape on each flange, before
this procedure. Glue dries to the insert and not the flanges.


Well I have acutally done this before about 10 years ago. However I put
pretty sizeable gobs down, let the the glue cool thoroughly and then sandded
the gobs down to fit. My only warning was to simply think this out before
you create a problem.

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:16:07 -0600, MIKE- wrote
(in article ):

On 7/19/10 8:53 PM, wrote:
You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".


To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?


It is easy and yes, you're thinking too much. Been there and was amazed
at how easy it was, after I finally just did it instead of planning it.

I used quality 3/4 Finnish birch plywood, then used a planer to get it
down to pefect thickness.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikeadid...earanceInsert#

Check out this video...

http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/146/...learance-dado-
insert
/
It's a pretty good technique.




I used 1/2" oak (Unisaw). 3/8" would have been a bit too thin, The 1/2"
needed only a few turns of leveling screws protruding from the bottom to sit
flush. I'm using a piece of 1/2" BB ply right now to see if it last longer
than the oak (based on some past posts here) and so far so good!

-Bruce

On Jul 23, 4:03*pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:16:07 -0600, MIKE- wrote
(in article ):



On 7/19/10 8:53 PM, wrote:
You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to *make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".

To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?

It is easy and yes, you're thinking too much. Been there and was amazed
at how easy it was, after I finally just did it instead of planning it.

I used quality 3/4 Finnish birch plywood, then used a planer to get it
down to pefect thickness.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikeadid...earanceInsert#

Check out this video...

http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/146/...learance-dado-
insert

/
It's a pretty good technique.

I used 1/2" oak (Unisaw). 3/8" would have been a bit too thin, The 1/2"
needed only a few turns of leveling screws protruding from the bottom to sit
flush. *I'm using a piece of 1/2" BB ply right now to see if it last longer
than the oak (based on some past posts here) and so far so good!

Wouldn't solid warp? I wouldn't think hardwood would be a good choice
in any case.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:31:58 -0600, wrote
(in article
):

On Jul 23, 4:03*pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:16:07 -0600, MIKE- wrote
(in article ):



On 7/19/10 8:53 PM, wrote:
You know, sometimes the most simplest thing turns into
analysis paralysis.

Want to *make ZCI insert for my JWTS-10 Jet. I bought a ZCI some
time ago and I measured the thickness - 3/8". I measured the one
on the JET, same and just for fun, I measured from the leveling
flange to the top of the saw 3/8".

To me, it sounds like 1) another router set up after I
already mount the flush bit to trim the blank 2) more time.

Why wouldn't you just use 3/8" ply or phenolic to make
a ZCI, trim it, drill for leveling screws and be done? I just
don't know why 1/2 material would be that much better?

It is easy and yes, you're thinking too much. Been there and was amazed
at how easy it was, after I finally just did it instead of planning it.

I used quality 3/4 Finnish birch plywood, then used a planer to get it
down to pefect thickness.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikeadid...earanceInsert#

Check out this video...

http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/146/...learance-dado-
insert

/
It's a pretty good technique.

I used 1/2" oak (Unisaw). 3/8" would have been a bit too thin, The 1/2"
needed only a few turns of leveling screws protruding from the bottom to sit
flush. *I'm using a piece of 1/2" BB ply right now to see if it last longer
than the oak (based on some past posts here) and so far so good!

Wouldn't solid warp? I wouldn't think hardwood would be a good choice
in any case.



No warpage, but I did have issues with splintering around the blade slot due
to the hammering from the teeth over time. This is why I'm hoping the BB ply
is more durable (needs to be more springy).