On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:26:08 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:
apples to grapefruit comparison. the two aren't comparable. the distractions
to driving and the quick changing road environment simply aren't there in
mid-ocean.

You mean because of inexperience, you can't mismanage the operation of
a sailboat and swamp it or turn it over?

On 1/15/2010 11:26 AM, charlie wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 10:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't have time for the search, but I hope someone does and gives
us the stats.

Don't know about that, but the insurance industry can damn sure give
you the stats for how lack of "experience" and mature "judgment"
justifies the increased cost of insuring 18-25 year old while operating
motor
vehicles.

I can't imagine this statistical fact somehow magically disappearing
at sea.

apples to grapefruit comparison. the two aren't comparable. the distractions
to driving and the quick changing road environment simply aren't there in
mid-ocean

Horse****! ... lack of experience and mature judgment are factors of
age, not type of activity.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 1/14/2010 4:36 PM, wrote:

I don't know how much credence I would put in a 16 year old's
assessment when "thinking things through" when their life is at
stake. While she may be quite competent for a 16 year old, indeed,
she is still 16.

Just because folks have the money to do whatever they want when they
want, doesn't mean it is a good idea.

Experienced a tragic example of that a few years back.

I grew up on a horse farm; rode, trained, show jumped, rodeoed, roped,
rode dressage and three day events, and even held a farriers license at
one time, so there is little about a horse, and horsemanship, I haven't
been exposed to since I was old enough to remember.

Two years ago all the horse crazy kids and their Moms in this affluent
neighborhood were all talking up, and hiring, a 14 year old girl as the
"OMG!!, BEST 'horse trainer' in the whole world!!".

I'm sorry, but there is simply NO way a 14 year old kid is old enough to
have the "experience", knowledge, and judgment to be anything but a pimple
on a real horseman's butt.

Sure enough, and with parents with more money than sense pushing her all
the while, the young lady, two years later and tragically, is a now a
quadriplegic ... simply because of her inexperience and lack of judgment
in getting herself into a situation that no "horseman" would have gotten
into in the first place.

It was sobering for a lot of these kids ... but damn, there are simply
some things you just don't fool with without both lengthy experience,
knowledge, and a finely tuned judgment based on both ... mother nature,
and large quadrapeds capable of killing you, included.

Despite the current cultural perception to the contrary, life is NOT a
farking "My Friend Flicka" movie/video game ...

--
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Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I too have worked around horses most of my life, it seems that
teenage girls like to think of horses as friends and pets, they are neither.

Me and SWMBO recently got a Belgian Warmblood from a horse
barn that catered to young riders. This guy is 17.4 hands and 3/4's ton
of bad attitude, an animal like this requires constant vigilance when
handling, he will hurt you.(but he can also jump a 4 ft. fence without
blinking)
I can't imagine a 17 yr old of either gender being able to handle this
horse.

Three day eventers "have to own a crazy horse" it's in the rules.

Disclaimer: I no longer ride, I consider myself too old and fragile.

basilisk

wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:26:08 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:
apples to grapefruit comparison. the two aren't comparable. the
distractions to driving and the quick changing road environment
simply aren't there in mid-ocean.

You mean because of inexperience, you can't mismanage the operation of
a sailboat and swamp it or turn it over?

no. i mean that you're not going to be spilling a slushee whilst texting and
talking to the other 4 teens in the car in crowded rush hour traffic at 60
mph tailgating trying to find the right tune on your ipod whilst trying to
put on makeup in mid-ocean.

Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 11:26 AM, charlie wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 10:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't have time for the search, but I hope someone does and gives
us the stats.

Don't know about that, but the insurance industry can damn sure give
you the stats for how lack of "experience" and mature "judgment"
justifies the increased cost of insuring 18-25 year old while
operating motor
vehicles.

I can't imagine this statistical fact somehow magically disappearing
at sea.

apples to grapefruit comparison. the two aren't comparable. the
distractions to driving and the quick changing road environment
simply aren't there in mid-ocean

Horse****! ... lack of experience and mature judgment are factors of
age, not type of activity.

then you prove your counter argument.

lack of experience for a 16 y.o. isn't this case, as it is in a new driver
at 16 y.o. she has been sailing for at least 10 years and has the
experience.

comparing her to a driver with 10 years of driving experience would be
comparable.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:




I answered your question and am not going to go farther since you are
insisting in staying this loop.

See Robatoy's answer to you,, he sum's it pretty nicely.

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:39:53 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:
lack of experience for a 16 y.o. isn't this case, as it is in a new driver
at 16 y.o. she has been sailing for at least 10 years and has the
experience.

comparing her to a driver with 10 years of driving experience would be
comparable.

And after 10 years of driving everybody has all the experience they'll
ever need and have absolutely nothing else to learn?

If that's true, then tell me how two people over 30 with 10+ years of
driving experience can get into a car accident with each other? By
your standards, the accident should never have happened. Explain that
to me please.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't believe the risks are so much the problem here as are how to get out
of a problem should you get into one.

Walk home, get mugged, get hit by a car, you have a reasonably good chance
of being seen and taken to a hospital should you survive...

Sail around the world, sink your boat in the middle of nowhere and then
what?

Risk is not so much the problem as is correcting the damage should a problem
happen.






I don't have time for the search, but I hope someone does and gives us
the stats.

--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln

On 1/15/2010 11:35 AM, basilisk wrote:

Me and SWMBO recently got a Belgian Warmblood from a horse
barn that catered to young riders. This guy is 17.4 hands and 3/4's ton
of bad attitude, an animal like this requires constant vigilance when
handling, he will hurt you.(but he can also jump a 4 ft. fence without
blinking)
I can't imagine a 17 yr old of either gender being able to handle this
horse.

My favorite horse idiocy tales revolve around the propensity of urban
raised females, even older ones, refusing to geld their colts.

Three day eventers "have to own a crazy horse" it's in the rules.

LOL ... you got that right.!

Disclaimer: I no longer ride, I consider myself too old and fragile.

I just haven't had the opportunity the past twenty years or so.

That said, although it is blurry as hell, the below is my 86 year old
Dad, just this past November (09), putting a "handle" on one of his race
track retreads that will no longer race, but may be handy around the farm!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ0tirrX1h8

As blurry and brief as it is, a true horseman will appreciate the supple
grace of his "seat" even at that age ... although I kidded him a bit
about his feet being too far forward ... until he said "Here, show me!".

A true horseman will also notice this horse is not all that happy with
being trained, by his demeanor under saddle, and his tail twisting.

My Dad will probably ride til the day he dies.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 1/15/2010 9:13 AM, Leon wrote:

A 16 year old's knowledge of the potential dangers is not as developed as
one with longer life experiences.

Yeah, just watch as a teenage girl goes by, sitting with left leg up on
the car seat, texting with one hand, while doing 70mph, all the while 5'
from the bumper of the car in front of her, then tell me how much
"potential danger" the majority of them understand.

If you drive anywhere other than the grocery store and maintain you
haven't seen this ubiquitous phenomenon with young female drivers, then
+you+ damn sure aren't paying enough attention while driving either ...


I'm on the wrong side of town to be interested in watching young female
drivers while on the way to the store these days.
I don't like the mixed flavors.
More likely to happen in your neighborhood. ;~)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

And why would Somali pirates be operating 2500 miles from Somalia anyway.



I was totally totally unaware that there were only "Somalia" pirates, I was
under the assumption that pirates might be any where.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:54:46 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:

Lets let our 16 year old daughter make the journey.
Ohhhhhhh.... We prey she fairs well and with out harm.

A budding Amelia Earhart in the making. I wonder what kind of ****
will come down the pipe when one of these kids dies out there?3

Great example...

I suspect that if it is an American, USA, child that dies, the sponsors,
boat builder, electronics suppliers, and government will be held
responsible by the parents attorney. And with the current governemet
administration, sailing will be out lawed all together. ;~)

Leon wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't believe the risks are so much the problem here as are how to
get out of a problem should you get into one.

Walk home, get mugged, get hit by a car, you have a reasonably good
chance of being seen and taken to a hospital should you survive...

Sail around the world, sink your boat in the middle of nowhere and
then what?

and how is that different if the person is 46?

wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:39:53 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:
lack of experience for a 16 y.o. isn't this case, as it is in a new
driver at 16 y.o. she has been sailing for at least 10 years and has
the experience.

comparing her to a driver with 10 years of driving experience would
be comparable.

And after 10 years of driving everybody has all the experience they'll
ever need and have absolutely nothing else to learn?

If that's true, then tell me how two people over 30 with 10+ years of
driving experience can get into a car accident with each other? By
your standards, the accident should never have happened. Explain that
to me please.

it's either called an accident, or neglicence on one or the other's part.

given that statement, then no one should never go out in a boat since they
would never have enough experience.

we're not comparing 2 30 year olds against each other in this case. you're
asking about the insurance company statistics of comparing people with
similar years of experience at their individual tasks. i doubt that a person
sailing in mid ocean is going to collide with someone driving.

wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:39:53 -0700, "charlie"
wrote:

Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 11:26 AM, charlie wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 10:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't have time for the search, but I hope someone does and
gives us the stats.

Don't know about that, but the insurance industry can damn sure
give you the stats for how lack of "experience" and mature
"judgment" justifies the increased cost of insuring 18-25 year
old while operating motor
vehicles.

I can't imagine this statistical fact somehow magically
disappearing at sea.

apples to grapefruit comparison. the two aren't comparable. the
distractions to driving and the quick changing road environment
simply aren't there in mid-ocean

Horse****! ... lack of experience and mature judgment are factors of
age, not type of activity.

then you prove your counter argument.

lack of experience for a 16 y.o. isn't this case, as it is in a new
driver at 16 y.o. she has been sailing for at least 10 years and has
the experience.

comparing her to a driver with 10 years of driving experience would
be comparable.


Actually, that isn't directly comparable. The average person, once
they have their driver's license doesn't spend every moment they are
driving, trying to improve their skills and knowlege. The average
sailor never stops trying to learn more and improve their sailing.
Comes with the territory.

the topic under discussion is insurance statistics and comparing general
population individuals. they also don't know if the average driver has
stopped learning (they wouldn't know that i have years of high speed car
racing experience with multiple racetrack classes, for example, which may
make me a bit safer than the average driver). they would only compare
similarly aged drivers against each other, with modifications as to years of
driving experience, lack of prior accidents, ticket history, and perhaps
other non-related things like credit score.

"charlie" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't believe the risks are so much the problem here as are how to
get out of a problem should you get into one.

Walk home, get mugged, get hit by a car, you have a reasonably good
chance of being seen and taken to a hospital should you survive...

Sail around the world, sink your boat in the middle of nowhere and
then what?

and how is that different if the person is 46?

Jeez..... It may not be any different if the boat sinks. But let me ask
you this? You you rather it be you rather than your 16 year old daghter
that goes down with the boat? Why?

"Leon" wrote in message
...

Jeez..... It may not be any different if the boat sinks. But let me ask
you this? You you rather it be you rather than your 16 year old daghter
that goes down with the boat? Why?






Jeea... :~)

It may not be any different if the boat sinks. But let me ask you this?
Would you rather it be "you" or your 16 year old daughter that goes down
with the boat? Why?

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:15:34 -0700, "charlie"
asking about the insurance company statistics of comparing people with
similar years of experience at their individual tasks. i doubt that a person
sailing in mid ocean is going to collide with someone driving.

You've got to be kidding me? How about a collision with a big wave?
Boats get swamped all the time when their skippers don't or *can't* or
misjudge a big wave in a storm. And, it even happens when there isn't
a storm.

At this point, I have to believe you're trolling Charlie. I'm gone
from this thread.

On 1/15/2010 12:22 PM, charlie wrote:


the topic under discussion is insurance statistics and comparing general
population individuals.

Bzzzzt ... do us all a favor and DAGS to prove to yourself that "lack of
experience AND immature judgement" DUE TO AGE, IS the reason for the
increased cost of motor vehicle insurance for 18 - 25 year olds ...

This is inarguable, so quitcher arguing.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:15:34 -0700, "charlie"
asking about the insurance company statistics of comparing people
with similar years of experience at their individual tasks. i doubt
that a person sailing in mid ocean is going to collide with someone
driving.

You've got to be kidding me? How about a collision with a big wave?
Boats get swamped all the time when their skippers don't or *can't* or
misjudge a big wave in a storm. And, it even happens when there isn't
a storm.

how is this different if the skipper is older?

At this point, I have to believe you're trolling Charlie. I'm gone
from this thread.

?

i'm simply pointing out that what you think you're arguing about isn't
consistent. you changed arguments midstream, bringing up a comparison which
isn't pertinent.

Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 12:22 PM, charlie wrote:


the topic under discussion is insurance statistics and comparing
general population individuals.

Bzzzzt ... do us all a favor and DAGS to prove to yourself that "lack
of experience AND immature judgement" DUE TO AGE, IS the reason for
the increased cost of motor vehicle insurance for 18 - 25 year olds
...
This is inarguable, so quitcher arguing.

but isn't that the whole point of this argument? in this case, she DOES have
the experience, negating the comparison in age between her and a new driver.
she is NOT a new sailor, whereas a new driver DOES have a lack of experience
due to their age.

On 1/15/2010 12:42 PM, charlie wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 12:22 PM, charlie wrote:


the topic under discussion is insurance statistics and comparing
general population individuals.

Bzzzzt ... do us all a favor and DAGS to prove to yourself that "lack
of experience AND immature judgement" DUE TO AGE, IS the reason for
the increased cost of motor vehicle insurance for 18 - 25 year olds
...
This is inarguable, so quitcher arguing.

but isn't that the whole point of this argument? in this case, she DOES have
the experience, negating the comparison in age between her and a new driver.
she is NOT a new sailor, whereas a new driver DOES have a lack of experience
due to their age.

Charlie, I will grant you that "experience" does lead to better
judgment, but not necessarily to mature judgment.

Look at the age range to better understand the "immaturity" aspect.

I really don't want to argue this any longer, but do appreciate your POV.

Thanks ...


--
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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 14, 10:41 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

With driver training, many states allow that. consider that many girls
her age are also having sex and smoking for years. Kids grow up far
earlier these days in the constantly-connected age.

Your comments make me feel really disconnected to the group society.
I had no idea that driving with a supervising adult in the car was an
indication of maturity.

If you further think that screwing, smoking and texting are any sign
of maturity, development of good judgment, I will have to confess I
don't get that at all. Those are things monkeys can do. I never
equated hedonistic pleasure to maturity, but it isn't up to me to set
standards for you.

(BTW - you would think I am a genius using those parameters! Well...
not so much any more, but 25 - 30 years ago you would have been
impressed.)


Have you ever heard of a girl being raped, drowning, or getting
crushed in a car wreck in the same neighborhood you live? Live is
dangerous _everywhere_, Robert. Acknowledge it!

Why no, Larry. I live in a city where the streets are made of
chocolate, we grow candy canes in our front yards, no one ever ages
past 30, and when it feels like the sun is shining, it is actually
just a warm group feeling of good will that spreads over the
neighborhood in a blanket of comfort and security.

Your hyperbole is dismissive and stupid.

I see you don't understand the difference between being in harm's way,
or putting yourself in harm's way.

Sometimes these threads have a way of sorting themselves out. And
when I see an arrogant scolding from someone that comes off as a
sanctimonious, proselytizing know-it-all that doesn't even know me, I
know it is indeed time to move on.

Continue the chest thumping.

Robert

wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:22:05 -0700, "charlie"
Insurance companies don't insure based on individuals. They assign you
to a group. They don't give a crap about you on a personal level.

There won't be insurance stats on circumnavigators, because 1.) There
are so few circumnavigators, and, 2.) Ocean sailors mostly don't have
insurance.

exactly. bringing us back to the OP question:

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't have time for the search, but I hope someone does and
gives us the stats.

my point being, as a group, the 2 aren't comparable. one, or both, as you
state, may not even be obtainable.

On Jan 15, 1:59 pm, "
wrote:


I live in a city where the streets are made of
chocolate, we grow candy canes in our front yards, no one ever ages
past 30, and when it feels like the sun is shining, it is actually
just a warm group feeling of good will that spreads over the
neighborhood in a blanket of comfort and security.



*I* happen to know that South Texas is too hot for chocolate streets.
I think you are pulling our legs.

On 01/15/2010 12:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/15/2010 11:35 AM, basilisk wrote:

Me and SWMBO recently got a Belgian Warmblood from a horse
barn that catered to young riders. This guy is 17.4 hands and 3/4's ton
of bad attitude, an animal like this requires constant vigilance when
handling, he will hurt you.(but he can also jump a 4 ft. fence without
blinking)
I can't imagine a 17 yr old of either gender being able to handle this
horse.

My favorite horse idiocy tales revolve around the propensity of urban
raised females, even older ones, refusing to geld their colts.

Reminds me of a stud horse in a dressage arena with a bunch of mares
lined up for ribbons, first time I'd ever seen a horse in the judging
booth.

Three day eventers "have to own a crazy horse" it's in the rules.

LOL ... you got that right.!

Disclaimer: I no longer ride, I consider myself too old and fragile.

I just haven't had the opportunity the past twenty years or so.

That said, although it is blurry as hell, the below is my 86 year old
Dad, just this past November (09), putting a "handle" on one of his race
track retreads that will no longer race, but may be handy around the
farm!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ0tirrX1h8

As blurry and brief as it is, a true horseman will appreciate the supple
grace of his "seat" even at that age ... although I kidded him a bit
about his feet being too far forward ... until he said "Here, show me!".

A true horseman will also notice this horse is not all that happy with
being trained, by his demeanor under saddle, and his tail twisting.

My Dad will probably ride til the day he dies.

He looks good, I hope he has many more years to ride, for me it is
simply not my passion and therefore not worth the risk anymore.

basilisk

J. Clarke wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

As for "systems failing
in a storm", the "systems" in question are ropes and pulleys--it's
an effing _sailboat_ for God's sake, technology that was old when
Alexander was leading his armies at her age.

And winches,

Pulley with a crank and a ratchec.

stays,

Just ropes.

*Wire* ropes. With turnbuckles.
___________

tangs, screws, bolts...all manner of things.

Just fancy substitutes for knots.

Fine, let's see you make a knot in 7x19 wire rope.
_____________

Bodies too: cuts, scrapes, concussions, broken bones...

Anyone who has ever sailed a boat knows - or had exceptional luck -
that systems *DO* fail, storms or not. The wonder is that they do as
well as they do.

Calling them "systems" doesn't make them any less ropes. As for their
failing, anybody who can tie a knot can fix them.

Fine, let's see you make a knot in 7x19 wire rope. Obviously, you know zero
about sailing.
_____________

If it was really so
complicated as to be beyond the abilities of a sixteen year old, how
would being an "adult" however you define it make a difference?

It isn't the age so much as the (probable) lack of experience. For
example...

1. To/from Catalina with others.

2. Crusing off shore to/from La Paz with others

3. To/from Hawaii with others.

3. All the above single handed.

Like that.

Experience (and common sense) really *does* count. I recall a fellow years
ago that was - IIRC - near Ecuador. He dropped and broke his sextant. They
found him nine months - *NINE MONTHS* - later out in the middle of the
Pacific. He was still alive, subsisted on rain water and (mostly) plants
and critters that grow on the bottom of boats. He had no idea where he was.

If he had any experience and the sense that god gave geese he would have
known that you can sail downhill most anywhere in the world and hit land.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 1/15/2010 1:46 PM, basilisk wrote:

He looks good, I hope he has many more years to ride, for me it is
simply not my passion and therefore not worth the risk anymore.

Thanks ... met too.

I feel your pain.

I got real tired of the "human vanity" aspect of the horse business at a
young age ... like breeding 1200 lb horses with feet that take 000 shoes
because they "look better" to some fancy pants judge.

That, plus mucking 10 to 30 stalls a day for the first 17 years of life
tends to suck the romanticism right outta of the equine "mystique".

Of course, I changed my tune again for a time in my twenties when
noticing how just many lovely young ladies were horse crazy ...

Now, I try to stay out of horse conversations, particularly with my Dad,
who will name every progenitor in the bloodline of this one, or that
one, going back 20 generations, along with how much they, and each and
every one of their offspring have won on the track, and the speed and
distance at which it took them to do so. yawn

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 15, 3:02*pm, "dadiOH" wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

As for "systems failing
in a storm", the "systems" in question are ropes and pulleys--it's
an effing _sailboat_ for God's sake, technology that was old when
Alexander was leading his armies at her age.

And winches,

Pulley with a crank and a ratchec.

stays,

Just ropes.

*Wire* ropes. *With turnbuckles.
___________

tangs, screws, bolts...all manner of things.

Just fancy substitutes for knots.

Fine, let's see you make a knot in 7x19 wire rope.
_____________

Bodies too: cuts, scrapes, concussions, broken bones...

Anyone who has ever sailed a boat knows - or had exceptional luck -
that systems *DO* fail, storms or not. *The wonder is that they do as
well as they do.

Calling them "systems" doesn't make them any less ropes. *As for their
failing, anybody who can tie a knot can fix them.

Fine, let's see you make a knot in 7x19 wire rope. *Obviously, you know zero
about sailing.
_____________

*If it was really so
complicated as to be beyond the abilities of a sixteen year old, how
would being an "adult" however you define it make a difference?

It isn't the age so much as the (probable) lack of experience. *For
example...

1. To/from Catalina with others.

2. Crusing off shore to/from La Paz with others

3. To/from Hawaii with others.

3. All the above single handed.

Like that.

Experience (and common sense) really *does* count. *I recall a fellow years
ago that was - IIRC - near Ecuador. *He dropped and broke his sextant. *They
found him nine months - *NINE MONTHS* - later out in the middle of the
Pacific. *He was still alive, subsisted on rain water and (mostly) plants
and critters that grow on the bottom of boats. *He had no idea where he was.

If he had any experience and the sense that god gave geese he would have
known that you can sail downhill most anywhere in the world and hit land.

Sense is especially lacking around these parts. Many figure...well
hell, it's a LAKE, right? (Lake Huron)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Now, I try to stay out of horse conversations, particularly with my Dad,
who will name every progenitor in the bloodline of this one, or that one,
going back 20 generations, along with how much they, and each and every
one of their offspring have won on the track, and the speed and distance
at which it took them to do so. yawn


;~) I cannot go anywhere without my dad remarking about every corner and
what happened there 30 years ago.

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:49:06 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:
;~) I cannot go anywhere without my dad remarking about every corner and
what happened there 30 years ago.

Aren't you old enough now to remember for yourself what was on those
street corners 30 years ago?

On Jan 15, 4:52*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:49:06 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:

;~) *I cannot go anywhere without my dad remarking about every corner and
what happened there 30 years ago.

Aren't you old enough now to remember for yourself what was on those
street corners 30 years ago?

I actually had someone tell me to turn left at "that house where the
Vanderburgs used to live"

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:




I answered your question and am not going to go farther since you are
insisting in staying this loop.

See Robatoy's answer to you,, he sum's it pretty nicely.


Better yet look at upscales response.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:49:06 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:
;~) I cannot go anywhere without my dad remarking about every corner and
what happened there 30 years ago.

Aren't you old enough now to remember for yourself what was on those
street corners 30 years ago?



LOL.... One would think.... I know one day too soon I will miss his
repeated comments.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Jan 15, 4:52 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:49:06 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:

;~) I cannot go anywhere without my dad remarking about every corner and
what happened there 30 years ago.

Aren't you old enough now to remember for yourself what was on those
street corners 30 years ago?

I actually had someone tell me to turn left at "that house where the
Vanderburgs used to live"


You musta been out in the country.... Every one knows where every one lives
out there. ;~)

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:10:49 -0600, "Leon"
LOL.... One would think.... I know one day too soon I will miss his
repeated comments.

That makes me think back to my dad who died in 1986. I remember some
of the heated arguments we hand when I was younger. Now I'd give
anything to say some of the things I should have said back then. Why
do we wait until it's too late?

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:45:27 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
We are not talking about stink boats here but well found blue water
boats designed for the task.

I'm guessing by stink boat, you're talking about some floating barge
with all the buoyancy of a lead bucket. In any event, I was referring
to the better boats, designed to be safer. Any boat can capsize in the
open seas under the right circumstances, even with an experienced
sailor.

Sorry, I'm not arguing this anymore.

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:56:03 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:45:27 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
We are not talking about stink boats here but well found blue water
boats designed for the task.

I'm guessing by stink boat, you're talking about some floating barge
with all the buoyancy of a lead bucket. In any event, I was referring
to the better boats, designed to be safer. Any boat can capsize in the
open seas under the right circumstances, even with an experienced
sailor.


My 30 foot sailboat has been knocked over flat on it's side a couple
of times in severe conditions. The thing about sailboats is that they
pop back up. The danger when it happens is that things and people go
flying. In the sort of conditions where that can happen, all openings
in the boat are shut and secured, and anyone topside is clipped in on
a short tether.

It's not uncommon for the crew of a sailboat to call for rescue and be
picked up, and then the boat is found floating months later with
little actual damage.

The vast majority of sailboats that sink, do so while at their dock,
tied up.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:10:49 -0600, "Leon"
LOL.... One would think.... I know one day too soon I will miss his
repeated comments.

That makes me think back to my dad who died in 1986. I remember some
of the heated arguments we hand when I was younger. Now I'd give
anything to say some of the things I should have said back then. Why
do we wait until it's too late?


I think because usually we cannot get a word in edgewise. ;~) Take heart
though, you can still say what you need to say to him.. he will hear you.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

Using that engine to drive a reverse osmosis unit for potable water and an
alternator to recharge batteries are more appropriate uses of that diesel
fuel.

I know nothing of power on a sailboat.

The backpackers now have some super filtering divices for water. I beleive
they use ceramic filters. Iunderstand that themilitaryhave these too. They
filter out everything. Any way that something like this could be adapted to
sailing?

Also, couldn't some solar panels and a little wind device be used to charge
batteries?

Also, if you were sailing around the world, wouldn't you catch some fish to
eat now and then? And would you have a way to cook it?