Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Has anyone figured out what the differences in risks are between:
A) Walking home from work in a large/medium/small/rural city.
and
B) Circumnavigating the globe at age 16?

I don't believe the risks are so much the problem here as are how to
get out of a problem should you get into one.

Walk home, get mugged, get hit by a car, you have a reasonably good
chance of being seen and taken to a hospital should you survive...

Sail around the world, sink your boat in the middle of nowhere and
then what?

You trigger your EPIRB and wait for rescue of course. It's the 21st
century
you know.

And how do you get rescued when you get nabbed by a pimp and shot
full of drugs?

Risk is not so much the problem as is correcting the damage should a
problem happen.

So how do you get rescued from being run over by a bus?



I pity your kids.

Apparently you don't have kids...

Or maybe I just don't keep them bundled up in cotton so that when they turn
18 and they have to deal with the big bad drill sergeant they'll be ready.

SFWIW:

Abby is scheduled to leave tomorrow; however, we have a series of
winter storms headed into SoCal which will put the winds on her nose
and build the waves again on the nose.

May have to wait until next week end.

She at the mercy of mother nature.

BTW:

Murphy's third law: Mother Nature is a BITCH.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote:

What is your point?

There is no AAA roadside service at sea.

If you expect others to save your ass with a SAR mission, you may/will
have a long wait.

It's a big ocean out there.

Prudent seamanship is your best chance of not needing outside assistance.

Lew


ahhh.. the voice of reason.... you have restored my faith Lew. Good on'ya

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I can't teach you every thing....that should have "your" parents
responsibility.

You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.




You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.

.............. I am speechless. You actually shot your self in the foot.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
SFWIW:

Abby is scheduled to leave tomorrow; however, we have a series of winter
storms headed into SoCal which will put the winds on her nose and build
the waves again on the nose.

May have to wait until next week end.

Ahhh, the voice of reason rings out again!



She at the mercy of mother nature.


Careful there Lew. There's a couple here that would consider that there
comment, fight'n words.


BTW:

Murphy's third law: Mother Nature is a BITCH.


Often an unforgiving Bitch.

"Leon" wrote:

ahhh.. the voice of reason.... you have restored my faith Lew.
Good on'ya

Single handing a 30 ft boat, on the Great Lakes, an average of 1,500
miles/year, for 10 years will do that to you.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote:

ahhh.. the voice of reason.... you have restored my faith Lew. Good
on'ya

Single handing a 30 ft boat, on the Great Lakes, an average of 1,500
miles/year, for 10 years will do that to you.

Lew




Kinda relates back to a few that believe that because they observe all the
safety rules and are always paying attention will never have an accident in
the shop... They just don't have enough experience to know that they don't
know what they don't know. ;~)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
I pity your kids.

Apparently you don't have kids...

Or maybe I just don't keep them bundled up in cotton so that when they
turn
18 and they have to deal with the big bad drill sergeant they'll be ready.



Or maybe you don't have kids.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 1/15/2010 11:05 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Aren't proper justifications fun? I just love 'em!


A damn good incentive, IMO ... and a hellavu tradeoff, healthwise.

Indeed!

Well ... actually, that's not counting all the damn weight you can gain in
19 years by quitting smoking.

I was hoping that stopped after a while. )

The good news for me is I now seem to be allergic to tobacco smoke. Somebody
lights up or smokes anywhere near me and my nose starts running, I'm
sneezing and start getting a headache.

Congrats on your 19!

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...


Kids that age also totally believe that they are invincible.
Suppose a hurricane blows through.... or pirates, they would have a
ball with her....literally, that is my problem..

How is that different from a young couple, an old man, or a middle
aged woman on the high seas? Most people on the ocean believe that
and pirates take on all comers, regardless of age or gender.


The older people should have a better understanding of the risks.

How does "better understanding of the risks" remove the risks? And how
old
do you consider to be "old enough"? Hillary Clinton has a mighty
****load
of life experience but if she was in the middle of the ocean in a boat and
some gang of pirates decided to rape her exactly how would she use that
experience to protect herself?

She'd cut their nuts off!

"LDosser" wrote:

The good news for me is I now seem to be allergic to tobacco smoke.
Somebody lights up or smokes anywhere near me and my nose starts
running, I'm sneezing and start getting a headache.


It just keeps getting worse.

Pretty soon you can smell a butt in an ash tray from 100 yards in a
hurricane and you're upwindG.

BTDT (01/1978)

Lew

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Noooo problem, I was simply agreeing that I thought the parents were
nuts for letting a youngster go and do something that few with far
more experienced and knowledgeable have done.

So Robin Lee Graham and Tania Aebi were "far more experienced and
knowledgeable"? Or would you have arrested them to save them from
themselves?

If you had been paying attention for the past 50 years you would
know that solo circumnavigation is no longer something that "few
with far more experienced and knowledgeable have done"--a lot of
people have done it, some
of whom had as their major qualifications "made a lot of money".

huh?



Then every one wanted
to defend the childs maturity and knowledge. The child will
probably do fine. But if something happened to my child I would
blame myself forever for not being responsible as a parent.

Well why don't you worry about your kids and let other peopld worry
about their kids?

That sound about right, coming from you.

And how would you feel if after having read the kid the riot act and
prevented her from doing this thing that you consider to be so
horribly dangerous she died in an automobile crash while being
kidnapped and raped by
her English teacher?

You can't protect your kids from everything you know.

I would not consider 16 years from infantcy "forever".... Maybe that
is so for you.


It is only common
sense, which seems to be lacking here, to try to protet your
children.

No, what is lacking is _your_ understanding that she is not _your_
child so
what she does is none of YOUR GODDAMNED BUSINESS.

Ohhhhh.... let's not get our panties in a wad now.... I am entitled
to my openion and have meerly been answering the question that "your
have asked". I am sorry if you for some reason feel you may have been
jilted in your up bringing.

If you hadn't been ranting about how horrible it is that these uncaring
people have let their naive stupid innocent little baby go off on this
incredibly dangerous trip there would have been no discussion.

Yeah your child stands a much greater chance of being hurt on land
because they are going to spend 99% of their lives on land but on
land help can be given and you do have to live some where.

Help can be given if someone is somewhere where there is help hanging
around. There are plenty of places even in New England where one
can die of
exposure long before some stranger happens along and finds your
corpse.

Have you seen much help on the high seas in the middle of nowhere?

As much as I've seen in the woods a half a mile from a marked trail.

You have
to pick your battles. Picking one where a child is alone for months
on end performing a balancing act with mother nature would not be a
wise one IMHO.

But it's not your battle to pick, Mr. Busybody.

You are soooooo naive..

Actually I'm ****ed off at professional do-gooders trying to tell everybody
else how to live their lives.

Leon wrote:
wrote in message
news
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:56:10 -0500, "J. Clarke"
No, what is lacking is _your_ understanding that she is not _your_
child so
what she does is none of YOUR GODDAMNED BUSINESS.

If it's no one's business, then what are you doing here talking about
it?

Clarke, you're quite the hypocritical asshole, aren't you.

For give him, he just needs attention, something that he probably
missed out on in his childhood. He probably cannot help it.

ROF,L. You're the one begging for attention by telling people how horrible
is is that someone who very likely has more offshore experience than you're
ever in your life going to get is doing wrong by going for a sail.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote:

What is your point?

There is no AAA roadside service at sea.

So what?

If you expect others to save your ass with a SAR mission, you may/will
have a long wait.

Nobody expects to have their ship sunk. But the whole SAR system exists for
a reason.

It's a big ocean out there.

Yes, it's a big ocean, but one doesn't have to search the entire ocean, one
just has to locate a signal.

Prudent seamanship is your best chance of not needing outside
assistance.

Nobody has said otherwise. But it you think that "prudent seamanship"
guarantees that one will always be safe and you spend much time on the water
you're going to get a big fat surprise one day.

Leon wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote:

What is your point?

There is no AAA roadside service at sea.

If you expect others to save your ass with a SAR mission, you
may/will have a long wait.

It's a big ocean out there.

Prudent seamanship is your best chance of not needing outside
assistance.

Lew


ahhh.. the voice of reason.... you have restored my faith Lew. Good
on'ya

And you might want to note that he is not whining about how thoughtless
Abby's parents are for letting her do something that they believe to be well
within her abilities.

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
I pity your kids.

Apparently you don't have kids...

Or maybe I just don't keep them bundled up in cotton so that when
they turn
18 and they have to deal with the big bad drill sergeant they'll be
ready.



Or maybe you don't have kids.

By your logic the Sunderlands don't have kids.

On 1/15/2010 11:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

I pity your kids.

Most of us will only ever wish we had a kid as mature and successful ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I can't teach you every thing....that should have "your" parents
responsibility.

You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.




You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.

............. I am speechless. You actually shot your self in the
foot.

Since you spoke in response to that one it didn't leave you speechless. I
note that an earlier post _did_ leave you speechless.

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:




I answered your question and am not going to go farther since you are
insisting in staying this loop.

See Robatoy's answer to you,, he sum's it pretty nicely.

On the odd chance that he said something worth hearing I googled that post.

My response is to quote a favorite expression of a man who served 28 years
in the Navy, several years in the Coast Guard before that, and I don't know
how long as a merchant seaman before that, and who until it got lost in a
move had in his possession a hand-carved model of the Gertrude L. Thebaud,
presented to him by the crew on the occasion of his being transferred to the
Pacific after serving aboard her on the Mid Atlantic Submarine Patrol.

"Go pee up a rope". Or, to make robatoy happy, I will amend that. _He_
should go pee up a _line_.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:12:23 -0500, "J. Clarke"
So how old should one be before being allowed to "walk alone in a seedy part
of town"? And would it make a difference if they were boys instead of
girls? And how would being 18 make them safer?

Why don't we put this into terms that your limited intellect can
understand?

You're going on a dangerous and life threatening trip. You will be
taking one person with you that is experienced in this type of trip.
You haven't met either one of them before.

All you know is that one of them has five years experience and the
other has twenty years experience in this type of trip.

Which one are you going to ask to accompany you? Pick one and explain
your reasoning for that choice.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:12:23 -0500, "J. Clarke"
So how old should one be before being allowed to "walk alone in a seedy
part
of town"? And would it make a difference if they were boys instead of
girls? And how would being 18 make them safer?

Why don't we put this into terms that your limited intellect can
understand?

You're going on a dangerous and life threatening trip. You will be
taking one person with you that is experienced in this type of trip.
You haven't met either one of them before.

All you know is that one of them has five years experience and the
other has twenty years experience in this type of trip.

Which one are you going to ask to accompany you? Pick one and explain
your reasoning for that choice.


I can tell you right now that there are too many variables for him to decide
or he will not understand the question at all.
Because he very seldom has anything to really contribute to the group I did
it to him again, saves space.

On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:01:36 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

A 16 year old's knowledge of the potential dangers is not as developed as
one with longer life experiences.

True, but knowledge doesn't necessarily mean the older person will
know WTF to do when something strange happens. A crafty young person
might well do better than a sedate old fart.


She should at least be old enough to have a decent understanding of how
her
life would change should any harm come to her.

Tell ya what: You do that with your kid and let these fine folks raise
their own the way they (and she) see fit. Deal? Good.

Noooo problem, I was simply agreeing that I thought the parents were nuts
for letting a youngster go and do something that few with far more
experienced and knowledgeable have done. Then every one wanted to defend
the childs maturity and knowledge. The child will probably do fine. But if
something happened to my child I would blame myself forever for not being
responsible as a parent. It is only common sense, which seems to be lacking
here, to try to protet your children.
Yeah your child stands a much greater chance of being hurt on land because
they are going to spend 99% of their lives on land but on land help can be
given and you do have to live some where. You have to pick your battles.
Picking one where a child is alone for months on end performing a balancing
act with mother nature would not be a wise one IMHO.



The Sunderlands firmly believe that all they need is prayer to solve
all their problems.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

The Sunderlands,
who know a mighty ****load more about teenaged circumnavigation than you
are
ever going to know, disagree with you.



Hmmmmmmm... John... a "mighty ****load", huh? I kinda like that. I presume
that's volumetrically greater - much greater, than a simple ****load. I'm
sticking this one in my back pocket. To think - all these years I've been
settling for a simple ****load. Man - you can really pick up some cool
stuff here.

--

-Mike-

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:12:21 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

dadiOH wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

As for "systems failing
in a storm", the "systems" in question are ropes and pulleys--it's
an effing _sailboat_ for God's sake, technology that was old when
Alexander was leading his armies at her age.

And winches,

Pulley with a crank and a ratchec.

stays,

Just ropes.

*Wire* ropes. With turnbuckles.

So what? They can be replaced in an emergency with dacron, Kevlar, or many
other textiles, with knots.
___________

tangs, screws, bolts...all manner of things.

Just fancy substitutes for knots.

Fine, let's see you make a knot in 7x19 wire rope.

I really should put a video of that up on Youtube just to **** you off.

The point is that if your fancy wire rope breaks, so ****ING WHAT? You
replace it with a spare, clamp on a patch, or replace it with something
else. You act like replacing or repairing a goddamned piece of rope takes
the entire resources of NASA or something.


When that fancy wire rope breaks, it often is accompanied by the whole
rig buckling, and coming down... In pieces.

J. Clarke wrote:


If you had been paying attention for the past 50 years you would know
that solo circumnavigation is no longer something that "few with far
more experienced and knowledgeable have done"--a lot of people have
done it, some of whom had as their major qualifications "made a lot
of money".

You can even climb Mt Everest today with a little experience and $60,000.
Not at all like it was when Hillary did it.
www.himex.com for details.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:18:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
Hmmmmmmm... John... a "mighty ****load", huh? I kinda like that. I presume
that's volumetrically greater - much greater, than a simple ****load. I'm
sticking this one in my back pocket. To think - all these years I've been
settling for a simple ****load. Man - you can really pick up some cool
stuff here.

Thanks Mike. I just had myself a mighty ****load of a good laugh.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:37:13 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I can't teach you every thing....that should have "your" parents
responsibility.

You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.




You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.

............. I am speechless. You actually shot your self in the foot.



LOL!

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 08:42:03 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Leon wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I can't teach you every thing....that should have "your" parents
responsibility.

You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.




You don't have anything to teach a retarded bullfrog.

............. I am speechless. You actually shot your self in the
foot.

Since you spoke in response to that one it didn't leave you speechless. I
note that an earlier post _did_ leave you speechless.

So says the self-acknowleged "retarded bullfrog".

On 1/16/2010 9:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:18:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
Hmmmmmmm... John... a "mighty ****load", huh? I kinda like that. I presume
that's volumetrically greater - much greater, than a simple ****load. I'm
sticking this one in my back pocket. To think - all these years I've been
settling for a simple ****load. Man - you can really pick up some cool
stuff here.

Thanks Mike. I just had myself a mighty ****load of a good laugh.

Ditto ... coffee missed the laptop, but damn, what a nasal experience.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Larry Jaques wrote:


What I was saying is that kids grow up/mature a whole lot earlier
today than they did when we were kids. Many are _much_ more mature.
You can accept that or not.



I'm not so sure. Kids are exposted to many more situation than we were as
kids, but being around a lot of technology and perhaps more experiences does
not always make them more mature. Typical teenager has more possisions than
we had, may have been to Disney World, has a cellphone, has a Facebook page,
but that does not make them any better equipped to make serious decisions
about their life.

Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:12:23 -0500, "J. Clarke"
So how old should one be before being allowed to "walk alone in a
seedy part
of town"? And would it make a difference if they were boys instead
of girls? And how would being 18 make them safer?

Why don't we put this into terms that your limited intellect can
understand?

You're going on a dangerous and life threatening trip. You will be
taking one person with you that is experienced in this type of trip.
You haven't met either one of them before.

All you know is that one of them has five years experience and the
other has twenty years experience in this type of trip.

Which one are you going to ask to accompany you? Pick one and explain
your reasoning for that choice.


I can tell you right now that there are too many variables for him to
decide or he will not understand the question at all.
Because he very seldom has anything to really contribute to the group
I did it to him again, saves space.

The question is irrelevant. We aren't talking about choice of companions
for a trip, we're talking about how much experience one should have before
undertaking the trip at all.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:


If you had been paying attention for the past 50 years you would know
that solo circumnavigation is no longer something that "few with far
more experienced and knowledgeable have done"--a lot of people have
done it, some of whom had as their major qualifications "made a lot
of money".

You can even climb Mt Everest today with a little experience and
$60,000. Not at all like it was when Hillary did it.
www.himex.com for details.

Yup.

wrote:

You're going on a dangerous and life threatening trip. You will be
taking one person with you that is experienced in this type of trip.
You haven't met either one of them before.

All you know is that one of them has five years experience and the
other has twenty years experience in this type of trip.

Which one are you going to ask to accompany you? Pick one and explain
your reasoning for that choice.

I'd flip a coin. What the one person has done in five years may be far
superior to the person that has been exposed to this type of trip for 20
years. The more years experience "usually" translates into being better
equipped in a tough situation, but sometimes youth and agility work better
than wisdom and creaky joints. Too many variables here to pick a clear
advantage.

On 1/16/10 10:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:18:45 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
Hmmmmmmm... John... a "mighty ****load", huh? I kinda like that. I presume
that's volumetrically greater - much greater, than a simple ****load. I'm
sticking this one in my back pocket. To think - all these years I've been
settling for a simple ****load. Man - you can really pick up some cool
stuff here.

Thanks Mike. I just had myself a mighty ****load of a good laugh.

We call it a metric ****load here in Canada.
Just trying to keep you informed.
;-)

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:07:17 -0500, "J. Clarke"
The question is irrelevant. We aren't talking about choice of companions
for a trip, we're talking about how much experience one should have before
undertaking the trip at all.

And as usual, you tap dance (very poorly I might add) around the fact
that age always gives one experience. A teenager is not fully grown,
not fully mature and simply enough, not as experienced as she or he
might be with a few years of adulthood under their belt. Besides
practical experience which you seem to be focused on, there's
emotional and life experience. Both these things contribute to the
practical decisions that are made. There's your problem and what you
are failing to admit.

*That's* what you're refusing to acknowledge and it's exactly that
fact that shoots down any premise that you can offer for this girl to
be fully competent on this lark of a voyage.

J. Clarke wrote:

The point is that if your fancy wire rope breaks, so ****ING WHAT?
You replace it with a spare, clamp on a patch, or replace it with
something else. You act like replacing or repairing a goddamned
piece of rope takes the entire resources of NASA or something.

Try this, oh experienced and clever one...

storm
50-60 kph wind
BIG waves
forestay tang pops off the (probably) aluminum mast

Let's see *you* replace the goddamned piece of "rope"
_____________

If he had any experience and the sense that god gave geese he would
have known that you can sail downhill most anywhere in the world and
hit land.

And the relevance of this is?

What I said...experience and common sense count.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:13:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:
I'd flip a coin. What the one person has done in five years may be far
superior to the person that has been exposed to this type of trip for 20
years. The more years experience "usually" translates into being better
equipped in a tough situation, but sometimes youth and agility work better
than wisdom and creaky joints. Too many variables here to pick a clear
advantage.

Flip a coin eh? Bull****! Your life is going to be on the line. As
well, you're adding variables to change the equation. Nice attempt,
making the 35 person sound weak and incapable, but that's just you
changing the equation.

IF it helps you, both are in excellent health and the 35 year old has
much more accumulated experience. Which are you going to pick now?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
wrote:

You're going on a dangerous and life threatening trip. You will be
taking one person with you that is experienced in this type of trip.
You haven't met either one of them before.

All you know is that one of them has five years experience and the
other has twenty years experience in this type of trip.

Which one are you going to ask to accompany you? Pick one and explain
your reasoning for that choice.

I'd flip a coin. What the one person has done in five years may be
far superior to the person that has been exposed to this type of trip
for 20 years. The more years experience "usually" translates into
being better equipped in a tough situation, but sometimes youth and
agility work better than wisdom and creaky joints. Too many
variables here to pick a clear advantage.

I know one thing. If I had to choose a companion for circumnavigation I'd
take Abby Sunderland or Jessica Watson over Leon any day. And I'd take
Abby's 18 year old brother over _anybody_ on this newsgroup.