Andrew Barss wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just
overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really
need
to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know
about
those things?

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/Index.cfm

Just about anything you want to know is there.

Some of it is useful and accurate, some of it is neither.

Care to point out the inaccuracies?

One should also consult reviews on cyclones from FWW, Popular
Woodworking, and other major magazines. And the engineers at Oneida
give free advice and very useful help in designing and planning a
system.

-- Andy Barss

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

[...snip...]

In the Decibel scale, a 3 dB reduction equates to a reduction by 1/2. dB
scale is logarithmic. Depending upon whether one is converting from power
or not, the conversion from linear scale to logarithmic scale is either
dB = 10 * log10(P) or dB = 20 * log10(A).

But in human perception terms, according to audio textbooks I have, a
3 db increase is generally perceived as just noticeable, and a 10 db
increase is perceived as twice as loud.

Jim

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:30:42 GMT, Han wrote:



Hey mac!

The scale for dB is logarithmic - I think that each increase of 1 means
10 times more, just as the Richter scale for earthquakes. Better look at
wikipedia for more info. How come you need a reduction of 7 to 10 dB for
50% reduction is not immediately clear, unless we have to go back to the
Bel decibel is 1/10 of a Bel). Then 10 dB=1 B, or a factor 2. But maybe
I need more coffee, and then advice from DIL, who teaches physics in a
high school.

Exactly why I blanked out when folks tried to explain it.. My math skills are
just about good enough to run a calculator..lol



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:47:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:


In the Decibel scale, a 3 dB reduction equates to a reduction by 1/2. dB
scale is logarithmic. Depending upon whether one is converting from power
or not, the conversion from linear scale to logarithmic scale is either
dB = 10 * log10(P) or dB = 20 * log10(A).

That first line is the comforting part, after that, it's all Greek (geek?) to
me..
thanks!

Feliz Navidad




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:43:57 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote:

However, you set your cyclone up, vent it outside the building into a
suitable enclosure (I made mine to look like an outhouse). This way,
you get rid of the dust, which is the whole purpose.

You also get rid of any warm air in the shop right quick.

For sure...

What isn't fair is that in summer, it doesn't seem to vent much heat..
Then again, we all know that life isn't fair..


Feliz Navidad




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote in
:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:47:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:


In the Decibel scale, a 3 dB reduction equates to a reduction by
1/2. dB
scale is logarithmic. Depending upon whether one is converting from
power or not, the conversion from linear scale to logarithmic scale is
either dB = 10 * log10(P) or dB = 20 * log10(A).

That first line is the comforting part, after that, it's all Greek
(geek?) to me..
thanks!

Feliz Navidad




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

That's normal. Most Physics formulas include greek letters. :-)

Puckdropper
--
On Usenet, no one can hear you laugh. That's a good thing, though, as
some writers are incorrigible.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

J. Clarke wrote:

: Care to point out the inaccuracies?

It's filled with hyperbole, it claims no commercial DC
company is worth their salt (he has a particular
dislike of Oneida), he claims he's spent a hundred
thousand dollars on putting up his website and requests donations,
he recommends homebuilt systems that are over powered, and he
exaggerates the efficacy of the system he advocates and the dangers
of small amounts of dust.

It may just be me, but the site has a cultish, conpiracy theory
feel.

However, it does contain some useful information.
I just think a person should look elsewhere as well.

-- Andy Barss

Andrew Barss wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

Care to point out the inaccuracies?

It's filled with hyperbole, it claims no commercial DC
company is worth their salt (he has a particular
dislike of Oneida), he claims he's spent a hundred
thousand dollars on putting up his website and requests donations,
he recommends homebuilt systems that are over powered, and he
exaggerates the efficacy of the system he advocates and the dangers
of small amounts of dust.

It may just be me, but the site has a cultish, conpiracy theory
feel.

I don't see any specifics there, your assertions are very vague.

However, it does contain some useful information.
I just think a person should look elsewhere as well.

-- Andy Barss

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Andrew Barss wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

Care to point out the inaccuracies?

It's filled with hyperbole, it claims no commercial DC
company is worth their salt (he has a particular
dislike of Oneida), he claims he's spent a hundred
thousand dollars on putting up his website and requests donations,
he recommends homebuilt systems that are over powered, and he
exaggerates the efficacy of the system he advocates and the dangers
of small amounts of dust.

It may just be me, but the site has a cultish, conpiracy theory
feel.

I don't see any specifics there, your assertions are very vague.

I share his vague disquiet. The entire site is very dust-phobic, bordering
on obsessive and paranoid. It's difficult to say more without quantifying
air quality in your own shop. I think about buying a good airborn
particulate counter from time to time. OTOH, the only purpose that would
serve is to verify whether or not I need to punch a hole through the masonry
to vent to the outside, with the attendant problems. Subjectively, the
small'ish DC and air cleaner work adequately most of the time, with the ROS
being the sole exception. A hole in the wall likely won't help the ROS.

MikeWhy wrote:
Subjectively, the small'ish DC and air cleaner work adequately most of
the time, with the ROS being the sole exception. A hole in the wall
likely won't help the ROS.


A Shop Vac, drywall bag, and $20 auto switch can do wonders for a ROS.

If you're really paranoid, you can add a Cleanstream HEPA filter to
catch what escapes the drywall bag.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
MikeWhy wrote:
Subjectively, the small'ish DC and air cleaner work adequately most of
the time, with the ROS being the sole exception. A hole in the wall
likely won't help the ROS.


A Shop Vac, drywall bag, and $20 auto switch can do wonders for a ROS.

If you're really paranoid, you can add a Cleanstream HEPA filter to catch
what escapes the drywall bag.

nods Yup. I use it so seldom, mostly on plywood only, and then only
rarely. I haven't bothered getting the 1" adapter to fit on the sander. Hand
sanding with 220 suffices, but that has a different dust problem. Solid wood
gets planed or scraped. (So, it's fair to say I stopped using it for lack of
a $2 vac adapter. I hate the whine of that shop vac, too.)

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:27:15 -0600, "MikeWhy" wrote:

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
.. .
MikeWhy wrote:
Subjectively, the small'ish DC and air cleaner work adequately most of
the time, with the ROS being the sole exception. A hole in the wall
likely won't help the ROS.


A Shop Vac, drywall bag, and $20 auto switch can do wonders for a ROS.

If you're really paranoid, you can add a Cleanstream HEPA filter to catch
what escapes the drywall bag.

nods Yup. I use it so seldom, mostly on plywood only, and then only
rarely. I haven't bothered getting the 1" adapter to fit on the sander. Hand
sanding with 220 suffices, but that has a different dust problem. Solid wood
gets planed or scraped. (So, it's fair to say I stopped using it for lack of
a $2 vac adapter. I hate the whine of that shop vac, too.)

Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja Breeze"
handle the dust..
Moving the table saw, router table and belt/disk sander outside made a huge
difference in how often I have to dust the stuff in the shop..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:

Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja Breeze"
handle the dust..

The "Connecticut Breeze" is a tad less accommodating this time of year.

B A R R Y wrote:

mac davis wrote:

Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja
Breeze" handle the dust..

The "Connecticut Breeze" is a tad less accommodating this time of year.

That's what we are hearing. How many inches of global warming have you
got so far? Or has it missed you and only hit the midwest?

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Mark & Juanita wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:

mac davis wrote:
Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja
Breeze" handle the dust..
The "Connecticut Breeze" is a tad less accommodating this time of year.

That's what we are hearing. How many inches of global warming have you
got so far? Or has it missed you and only hit the midwest?



~ 14 last weekend!

I live about 30 minutes from the shore, @ 100 ft/MSL, so that's a huge
storm.

B A R R Y wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

B A R R Y wrote:

mac davis wrote:

Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja
Breeze" handle the dust..

The "Connecticut Breeze" is a tad less accommodating this time of year.


That's what we are hearing. How many inches of global warming have you
got so far? Or has it missed you and only hit the midwest?



~ 14 last weekend!

I live about 30 minutes from the shore, @ 100 ft/MSL, so that's a huge
storm.

14" last Friday, 23.5" on Sunday.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Nova wrote:

14" last Friday, 23.5" on Sunday.

Mere flurries, for you! G

Nova wrote:

B A R R Y wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

B A R R Y wrote:

mac davis wrote:

Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja
Breeze" handle the dust..

The "Connecticut Breeze" is a tad less accommodating this time of year.


That's what we are hearing. How many inches of global warming have
you
got so far? Or has it missed you and only hit the midwest?



~ 14 last weekend!

I live about 30 minutes from the shore, @ 100 ft/MSL, so that's a huge
storm.

14" last Friday, 23.5" on Sunday.


Saw a dusting of frost on the lawn (green) this morning. I don't envy you
all in the least.



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:07:03 -0500, B A R R Y wrote:

mac davis wrote:

Weather permitting, I sand stuff like that outside..
I find myself working more and more in the carport, using the "Baja Breeze"
handle the dust..

The "Connecticut Breeze" is a tad less accommodating this time of year.

Yep.. local makes a huge difference..
Right now, a long sleeve shirt is all I need to work outside, but during the
summer it's just too hot/humid to work outside..
Forecast this morning was for a warming trend, maybe up to 70...
After 2 years here, we've acclimated a bit though and 70 with a strong breeze is
kind of cold..

From what I've heard, your spring is spectacular, though..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:37:53 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

14" last Friday, 23.5" on Sunday.


Saw a dusting of frost on the lawn (green) this morning. I don't envy you
all in the least.

Me either... The ideal white Christmas for us the sand on the beach..
The older I get, the less I like being cold..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote:


Me either... The ideal white Christmas for us the sand on the
beach..
The older I get, the less I like being cold..


You want an arguement, change the subject.

High today in SoCal is around 60F.

IT SUCKS.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"mac davis" wrote:



Me either... The ideal white Christmas for us the sand on the
beach..
The older I get, the less I like being cold..



You want an arguement, change the subject.

High today in SoCal is around 60F.

IT SUCKS.

Lew



The temperature here today (at 4:30 PM) is 59 degrees. We had heavy
rain this AM. Along with the melting snow things are a little wet.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

mac davis wrote:
Right now, a long sleeve shirt is all I need to work outside, but during the
summer it's just too hot/humid to work outside..
Forecast this morning was for a warming trend, maybe up to 70...
After 2 years here, we've acclimated a bit though and 70 with a strong breeze is
kind of cold..


Nice!


From what I've heard, your spring is spectacular, though..


Fall, too!

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"mac davis" wrote:


Me either... The ideal white Christmas for us the sand on the
beach..
The older I get, the less I like being cold..


You want an arguement, change the subject.

High today in SoCal is around 60F.

IT SUCKS.

Lew


EXCEPT at 7000 feet where it started at about 8dF and spiraled all the
way up to 34 now. We started with about 3.5 feet of powder. Then over
Christmas, it rained, sleeted, and ended up with freezing temps. Our
street is a sheet of ice covered with a thin layer of snow. If you can
get up here through the hordes of snow play people and
skiers/snowboarders, bring some 60dF weather.
grump,
jo4hn

"jo4hn" wrote:

If you can get up here through the hordes of snow play people and
skiers/snowboarders, bring some 60dF weather.


May our paths (skiers and snowboarders) never cross.grin


Lew

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:55:19 GMT, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"mac davis" wrote:


Me either... The ideal white Christmas for us the sand on the
beach..
The older I get, the less I like being cold..


You want an arguement, change the subject.

High today in SoCal is around 60F.

IT SUCKS.

Lew

Hey, it could be worse, Lew.. You could be in N. Dakota.. lol
My inlaws are freezing their butts off there..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Dec 28, 12:55*pm, mac davis wrote:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:55:19 GMT, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"mac davis" wrote:

Me either... The ideal white Christmas for us the sand on the
beach..
The older I get, the less I like being cold..

You want an arguement, change the subject.

High today in SoCal is around 60F.

IT SUCKS.

Lew

Hey, it could be worse, Lew.. You could be in N. Dakota.. lol
My inlaws are freezing their butts off there..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On my way back from Toronto, yesterday, the outside temp gauge in my
truck said 15 C. (Which is like 60F for those who haven't figured out
metric yet.)( Water freezes at 0, boils at 100...now is that so hard??
G)

Not to appear too dumb...but what is a drywall bag
and where do I get one ?

B A R R Y wrote:
MikeWhy wrote:
Subjectively, the small'ish DC and air cleaner work adequately most of
the time, with the ROS being the sole exception. A hole in the wall
likely won't help the ROS.


A Shop Vac, drywall bag, and $20 auto switch can do wonders for a ROS.

If you're really paranoid, you can add a Cleanstream HEPA filter to
catch what escapes the drywall bag.

Pat Barber wrote:
Not to appear too dumb...but what is a drywall bag
and where do I get one ?


They're disposable filter bags designed for picking up drywall dust.
I've only seen them available for the "Shop-Vac" and the Porter Cable vacs.


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Dec 29, 2:42*pm, Nova wrote:
Pat Barber wrote:
Not to appear too dumb...but what is a drywall bag
and where do I get one ?

They're disposable filter bags designed for picking up drywall dust.
I've only seen them available for the "Shop-Vac" and the Porter Cable vacs.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA


The Festool and Fein vacs have them too.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:54:48 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On my way back from Toronto, yesterday, the outside temp gauge in my
truck said 15 C. (Which is like 60F for those who haven't figured out
metric yet.)( Water freezes at 0, boils at 100...now is that so hard??
G)
well, it's 59, but who's counting?

Metric is great for wrenches and sockets.. I hate fractions..
Oh.. and we set the AC in the bedroom to 30c at night..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Pat Barber wrote:
Not to appear too dumb...but what is a drywall bag
and where do I get one ?

A drywall bag is simply a disposable filter bag, fine enough to contain
drywall dust. I buy them in the Shop Vac (generic term...) section,
wherever Shop Vac accessories, like filters and hoses, are sold.

I find that the bag provides a steadier suction for longer than a HEPA
filter by itself. My HEPA filters seem to clog quite readily with
sanding junk. The bags also make the job of emptying the vacuum much
cleaner, but they aren't all that cheap. Since the main use of my
vacuum is with handheld sanders, I don't worry too much about the extra
cost. The bags last me a long time.

mac davis wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:54:48 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On my way back from Toronto, yesterday, the outside temp gauge in my
truck said 15 C. (Which is like 60F for those who haven't figured out
metric yet.)( Water freezes at 0, boils at 100...now is that so hard??
G)
well, it's 59, but who's counting?

Metric is great for wrenches and sockets.. I hate fractions..
Oh.. and we set the AC in the bedroom to 30c at night..


Problem is that your body can pretty well detect 1 degree F differences.
Unfortunately 1 degree C is about 2 degrees F, so unless your thermostat
gives you 1/2 degree C setting increments, it's not hard to have a
significant discomfort factor because you can't tune the temperature as
finely.



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Mark & Juanita wrote:

Problem is that your body can pretty well detect 1 degree F differences.

My wife can detect 10ths...

B A R R Y wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

Problem is that your body can pretty well detect 1 degree F
differences.

My wife can detect 10ths...

I can detect my wife's cold feet in the middle of my back.
;-)
--
Froz...

B A R R Y wrote:
Pat Barber wrote:

Not to appear too dumb...but what is a drywall bag
and where do I get one ?


A drywall bag is simply a disposable filter bag, fine enough to contain
drywall dust. I buy them in the Shop Vac (generic term...) section,
wherever Shop Vac accessories, like filters and hoses, are sold.

I find that the bag provides a steadier suction for longer than a HEPA
filter by itself. My HEPA filters seem to clog quite readily with
sanding junk. The bags also make the job of emptying the vacuum much
cleaner, but they aren't all that cheap. Since the main use of my
vacuum is with handheld sanders, I don't worry too much about the extra
cost. The bags last me a long time.

Have you tried a "CleanStream" filter. They too are initially expensive
but I've been running the same one in my Sears shop vac for about 6 years.

http://www.cleanstream.com/filters_wetdry.html

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

I do have a couple of the Cleanstream and they
are nice.

I just thought these drywall bags might
make things easier.

I also use my shop vac for most sanding operations
but that fine dust is hell on even the Cleanstream.

Dumping those shop vacs can be a VERY nasty operation.

Maybe Craftsman makes a similar bag.



Nova wrote:

I find that the bag provides a steadier suction for longer than a HEPA
filter by itself. My HEPA filters seem to clog quite readily with
sanding junk. The bags also make the job of emptying the vacuum much
cleaner, but they aren't all that cheap. Since the main use of my
vacuum is with handheld sanders, I don't worry too much about the
extra cost. The bags last me a long time.

Have you tried a "CleanStream" filter. They too are initially expensive
but I've been running the same one in my Sears shop vac for about 6 years.

http://www.cleanstream.com/filters_wetdry.html

On Dec 29, 3:34 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
Pat Barber wrote:
Not to appear too dumb...but what is a drywall bag
and where do I get one ?

A drywall bag is simply a disposable filter bag, fine enough to contain
drywall dust. I buy them in the Shop Vac (generic term...) section,
wherever Shop Vac accessories, like filters and hoses, are sold.

I find that the bag provides a steadier suction for longer than a HEPA
filter by itself. My HEPA filters seem to clog quite readily with
sanding junk. The bags also make the job of emptying the vacuum much
cleaner, but they aren't all that cheap. Since the main use of my
vacuum is with handheld sanders, I don't worry too much about the extra
cost. The bags last me a long time.

If you're going through a lot of bags, a mini cyclone would save you
money in the long run.

-Kevin

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I do have a couple of the Cleanstream and they
are nice.

I just thought these drywall bags might
make things easier.

I also use my shop vac for most sanding operations
but that fine dust is hell on even the Cleanstream.

Dumping those shop vacs can be a VERY nasty operation.

Maybe Craftsman makes a similar bag.

That was really weird. Thinking I had a Craftsman vac of some sort, I was
somewhat distressed to find that it said Hoover on the outside. Weird. Oh
well. Vaguely remembering that I might have bought a Craftsman filter for it
at one time, I looked inside to see if it was compatible with what
CleanStream was selling. Lo! It was a CleanStream filter. WTF?

Nova wrote:

Have you tried a "CleanStream" filter. They too are initially expensive
but I've been running the same one in my Sears shop vac for about 6 years.

I have.

It still clogs.

The beauty of the drywall bag is that the dust cake seems to fall off in
between uses. I like the Cleanstream as a main filter, but the bag is
a great pre-filter.