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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/Index.cfm

Just about anything you want to know is there.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On 22 Dec, 22:06, Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


I still haven't found out how to send a live link, but-http://
www.studio1304.com/silca/cyclone/index.htm
HTH
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.


"Robatoy" wrote in message ...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement. The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop collecting or get a bigger container.

2. Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...t=1,42401&ap=1
has a really good write-up on the theory of a cyclone collector. Their catalogue has a lot of accessories to really make it sing.

3. As theory goes, the cyclone approach really works. In practice, it is only as good as the collection system you hook up to it.

P D Q
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Robatoy wrote:

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


Three months ago, I put in a JDS 3100ck.

I wish I went to a cyclone years ago. Easy to empty, fantastic
performance, and a canister filter from the get go. I've emptied ~ 200
gallons of material from the drum and I'm still on the original bag
under the filter. This unit has a filter beater that runs on a timer
each time the DC is shut down. It seems to work very well.

Without my ceiling height limitation, you can probably get a similar
performing unit for a few hundred bucks less than my unit, as there is
lots of competition.




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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container, you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.

With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


2. Lee Valley
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...t=1,42401&ap=1
has a really good write-up on the theory of a cyclone collector.
Their catalogue has a lot of accessories to really make it sing.

3. As theory goes, the cyclone approach really works. In practice,
it is only as good as the collection system you hook up to it.


I see very little in the way of fines settling out regardless of
whether the machine I'm using is connected to the cyclone.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

One way is to use a 55 gallon drum. The lid has two portals. Inlet and
outlet. The outlet goes to the bag system. Between the two you bolt on
or weld - a fence that extends 4-5 times the diameter of the hose.
So the inlet is pulled in and dumps into the can. Lighter stuff continues
on the way to the filter.

Have two barrels and one lid - never run out of room.

Naturally a nice one outside on the edge of the building that can dump into
a truck or large bag in the truck would be nice and best.

Martin

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r

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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.


"J. Clarke" wrote in message ...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container, you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.

With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size. I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.



2. Lee Valley
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...t=1,42401&ap=1
has a really good write-up on the theory of a cyclone collector.
Their catalogue has a lot of accessories to really make it sing.

3. As theory goes, the cyclone approach really works. In practice,
it is only as good as the collection system you hook up to it.


I see very little in the way of fines settling out regardless of
whether the machine I'm using is connected to the cyclone.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



P D Q
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On Dec 22, 11:10*pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in ...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


r


1. *Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container, you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.


With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. *Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size. *I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. *He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to virtually
eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters.
My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it
is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total
quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic
fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless after
a 1 hour cutting routine.

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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
One way is to use a 55 gallon drum. The lid has two portals.
Inlet
and outlet. The outlet goes to the bag system. Between the two you
bolt on or weld - a fence that extends 4-5 times the diameter of the
hose.
So the inlet is pulled in and dumps into the can. Lighter stuff
continues on the way to the filter.

Have two barrels and one lid - never run out of room.

Naturally a nice one outside on the edge of the building that can
dump into a truck or large bag in the truck would be nice and best.


What you have described is a poorly designed inefficient cyclone.

If you're DIYing and all ready have a good sized dust colletor, it
doesn't cost all that much to beat together a real cyclone.

Martin

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)




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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.


"Robatoy" wrote in message ...
On Dec 22, 11:10 pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in ...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container, you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.


With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size. I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to virtually
eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters.
My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it
is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total
quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic
fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless after
a 1 hour cutting routine.

The theory of the cyclone is like a cream separator, the heavy stuff falls to the bottom and the light stuff keeps on going (like that rabbit). All you get is a little more fun before the dump.

Probably will not make much of an impact on the MDF and acrylic. I would suggest a hepa filter for that stuff. Not good to suck it down the wind pipe.

P D Q
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

You don't understand. The drum is a pre-dump of big stuff
so the smaller stuff continues and doesn't get swamped with
everything the shop can give it.

Martin

J. Clarke wrote:
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
One way is to use a 55 gallon drum. The lid has two portals.
Inlet
and outlet. The outlet goes to the bag system. Between the two you
bolt on or weld - a fence that extends 4-5 times the diameter of the
hose.
So the inlet is pulled in and dumps into the can. Lighter stuff
continues on the way to the filter.

Have two barrels and one lid - never run out of room.

Naturally a nice one outside on the edge of the building that can
dump into a truck or large bag in the truck would be nice and best.


What you have described is a poorly designed inefficient cyclone.

If you're DIYing and all ready have a good sized dust colletor, it
doesn't cost all that much to beat together a real cyclone.

Martin

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


For a quick and dirty cyclone substitute for the lowest-dollar, take a
look at a reasonable substitute.

http://dreamingofhawaii.com/workshop/cyclone.asp

It uses an existing dust extractor and provides much of the cyclone
action without the cost.
Still gotta empty the barrel, but the filter bag never got much in it
after the barrel was hooked up...

--Rick

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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On Dec 22, 11:27 pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in ...

On Dec 22, 11:10 pm, "PDQ" wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in ...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container, you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.


With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size. I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.


As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.


My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to virtually
eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters.
My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it
is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total
quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic
fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless after
a 1 hour cutting routine.

The theory of the cyclone is like a cream separator, the heavy stuff
falls to the bottom and the light stuff keeps on going (like that rabbit).
All you get is a little more fun before the dump.

Probably will not make much of an impact on the MDF and acrylic.
I would suggest a hepa filter for that stuff. Not good to suck it down
the wind pipe.


Don't confuse the "cyclone lids" with a real cyclone separator. I
have only a vacuum setup, with the mini cyclone from
clearvuecyclones. Before I was using a lid from Lee Valley. There's
at least an order of magnitude difference between the two as far as
getting the fines. Hooked up to my drum sander the lid may as well
have not been there. Maybe a couple hours and the filter would be
fully caked. With the cyclone I can go a month or more without even
thinking about the filter, and even then I'm cleaning it long before
it even gets to that fully caked point. I probably won't clean it all
winter, cuz it's freaking cold outside and I don't have to. And there
is NOTHING in the bottom of the vacuum, unless I let the cyclone
overflow. And you can literally let it fill up completely to the top
before anything comes out.

If you haven't used one you really don't understand just how effective
they are. I think if Rob Lee tested that thing he'd stop selling the
lids and start selling the real thing.

-Kevin
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Posts: 204
Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.


"Robatoy" wrote in message ...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


If a DIY interests you http://www.studio1304.com/silca/cyclone/index.htm
offers a nice version.

A practical plan for same is at http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking...yclonePlan.cfm

Other odds and sods may be gleaned from these sites as well.

Enjoy

P D Q


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Posts: 204
Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

What you say about the "garbage can" variety is right. Only a serious collector is in the 98 % territory. A back yard guy can get by quite nicely with or without one of the can lids.

P D Q


wrote in message ...
On Dec 22, 11:27 pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in ...

On Dec 22, 11:10 pm, "PDQ" wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in ...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container, you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.


With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size. I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we have a really big bonfire.


As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.


My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to virtually
eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters.
My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it
is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total
quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic
fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless after
a 1 hour cutting routine.

The theory of the cyclone is like a cream separator, the heavy stuff
falls to the bottom and the light stuff keeps on going (like that rabbit).
All you get is a little more fun before the dump.

Probably will not make much of an impact on the MDF and acrylic.
I would suggest a hepa filter for that stuff. Not good to suck it down
the wind pipe.


Don't confuse the "cyclone lids" with a real cyclone separator. I
have only a vacuum setup, with the mini cyclone from
clearvuecyclones. Before I was using a lid from Lee Valley. There's
at least an order of magnitude difference between the two as far as
getting the fines. Hooked up to my drum sander the lid may as well
have not been there. Maybe a couple hours and the filter would be
fully caked. With the cyclone I can go a month or more without even
thinking about the filter, and even then I'm cleaning it long before
it even gets to that fully caked point. I probably won't clean it all
winter, cuz it's freaking cold outside and I don't have to. And there
is NOTHING in the bottom of the vacuum, unless I let the cyclone
overflow. And you can literally let it fill up completely to the top
before anything comes out.

If you haven't used one you really don't understand just how effective
they are. I think if Rob Lee tested that thing he'd stop selling the
lids and start selling the real thing.

-Kevin

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Posts: 4,207
Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

PDQ wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just
overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really
need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know
about
those things?

r

1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either
stop
collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container,
you
don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.

With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size.
I have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look
like
a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we
have a really big bonfire.

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think
jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff
as a lot of that still gets to the filters.


You can have the pacific ocean for a collector but if the filters clog
in an hour that doesn't do you any good.

If "a lot of that" is getting to the filters it's a crappy cyclone.

2. Lee Valley
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...t=1,42401&ap=1
has a really good write-up on the theory of a cyclone collector.
Their catalogue has a lot of accessories to really make it sing.

3. As theory goes, the cyclone approach really works. In
practice,
it is only as good as the collection system you hook up to it.


I see very little in the way of fines settling out regardless of
whether the machine I'm using is connected to the cyclone.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



P D Q


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 11:10 pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in
...
PDQ wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just
overwhelmed. Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1
hour.... I really need to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know
about those things?


r


1. Does not matter what version of dust collection you implement.
The only way to lengthen the time between dumpings is to either
stop collecting or get a bigger container.


The difference is that with a cyclone you just empty a container,
you don't have to beat dust off of the clogged filters, which if I
understand correctly was the issue.


With a properly designed cyclone very, very little gets to the
filters.


Yep. Still say time between dumps is a function of collector size.
I
have a friend who has a 40 foot tall collector painted to look like
a beer can. He does not empty it very often but, when he does, we
have a really big bonfire.

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think
jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine
stuff
as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

My understanding, is that the whole point of a cyclone is to
virtually
eliminate ANYthing getting to the filters.
My router doesn't produce a lot of pounds of crap, but so much of it
is fluffy filter-clogging crap. I didn't mean to emphasize the total
quantity of the crap, just that a lot of it is MDF and acrylic
fluffiness. Even the flappers on my canister is rendered useless
after
a 1 hour cutting routine.

The theory of the cyclone is like a cream separator, the heavy stuff
falls to the bottom and the light stuff keeps on going (like that
rabbit). All you get is a little more fun before the dump.


It's a centrifugal separator. In this case "the light stuff" is air
molecules and "the heavy stuff" is everything else.

Probably will not make much of an impact on the MDF and acrylic. I
would suggest a hepa filter for that stuff. Not good to suck it
down
the wind pipe.


A good properly desigend cyclone has a HEPA filter with a tenth the
pore size of the ones that you use on ordinary dust collectors.

The reason I put one in in the first place was MDF. End up with a
main collector full of MDF dust, the little one under the filters
hardly sees anything.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Robatoy wrote:

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


About six years ago I daisy-chained two 55 gallon barrels with Lee
Valley clear separator tops to a HF dust collector. This setup is
dedicated to my ShopBot. I normally empty a barrel when it's somewhere
between 1/2 to 2/3 full.

The first barrel traps nearly all of the course/medium stuff and some of
the fine dust. The second has trapped everything not trapped by the
first barrel.

The bag on the dust collector has never needed emptying.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
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This guy has been selling a version for a few years
now. The pictures show a typical setup similar to your
needs:


http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280294896934QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280294896934&_trksid=p 3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39% 3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

What machine is creating that much dust in an hour ?

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r



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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On Dec 23, 9:52*am, Pat Barber wrote:
This guy has been selling a version for a few years
now. The pictures show a typical setup similar to your
needs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280...66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240 %3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

What machine is creating that much dust in an hour ?

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


r


Now that one piqued my interest. Especially 2 in series. Thank you,
Pat.
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On Dec 23, 9:52*am, Pat Barber wrote:
This guy has been selling a version for a few years
now. The pictures show a typical setup similar to your
needs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280...66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240 %3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

What machine is creating that much dust in an hour ?


V-grooving 3/4" MDF or PB with a CNC.

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.


So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?


r


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:06:38 -0500, Robatoy
wrote:

The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


Just a bit of personal experience and my basic cheapness:

I built a "cyclone" system 5 or 6 years ago out of a fiber 50 gallon drum and
it's fantastic..

The drum was free
I made a plywood lid for the drum (good excuse to build a quick & dirty circle
jig for the router)
Cut two 4" holes in the lid, one in the center and one near an edge..
Put a straight DC hose connecter in the middle hole,
A DC elbow in the hole on the edge.. (should say the one closer to the rim, I
guess)

I connected the hose from the tools to the elbow and the DC hose to the middle
hole.. Middle hole works a little better if you have a bit of lift straight up
before directing it to the DC...

All I get in the DC lower bag now is fine dust.. All the heavier stuff
accumulates in the barrel..
I used to have to empty the bag every month.....
Now, I empty the barrel frequently, which is easier and a lot less mess, and
haven't had to empty the DC bag more than once a year or so... YMWV

That said, I use the DC for the lathe and band saw, so different tools would
have different results..
I use to use the separator/cyclone on the router table and saw and it worked
fine, but the really messy stuff is outside now and the DC isn't connected to
them..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Pat Barber wrote:
This guy has been selling a version for a few years
now. The pictures show a typical setup similar to your
needs:


http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280294896934QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280294896934&_trksid=p 3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39% 3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50


Wish I'd seen that when I was building mine. I'd have saved some time
and money.

What machine is creating that much dust in an hour ?

Robatoy wrote:
The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
One way is to use a 55 gallon drum. The lid has two portals. Inlet and
outlet. The outlet goes to the bag system. Between the two you bolt on
or weld - a fence that extends 4-5 times the diameter of the hose.
So the inlet is pulled in and dumps into the can. Lighter stuff continues
on the way to the filter.


I had that, it's like comparing my single engine C182 to a Gulfstream.
Without the can, it was my Beech 23, compared to my C182.

A real cyclone works so much better than a preseperator that it's not
funny. The extra drum on a bag DC eats CFM, so the suction is much reduced.





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PDQ wrote:

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.


That's why John said "properly designed".

My JDS has had over 200 gallons of junk sucked in over the last three
months, with less than 2 gallons in the filter bag.

I use a decent amount of MDF and plywood, and own a 22" drum sander, so
I get plenty of "fine" dust. It's really obvious just by looking in the
drum how much fine dust the drum catches.


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J. Clarke wrote:
The reason I put one in in the first place was MDF. End up with a
main collector full of MDF dust, the little one under the filters
hardly sees anything.


I get so much MDF dust in the drum, I created a shop made bag holder to
install plastic bags. Dumping the drum was gross.

The bag holder is simply a garbage can that fits inside the drum, with
the bottom cut out. I install the bag, put in the can, and work... At
dump time, I pull out the can, close the bag, and repeat.
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

On Dec 23, 7:44*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
PDQ wrote:

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.


That's why John said "properly designed".

My JDS has had over 200 gallons of junk sucked in over the last three
months, with less than 2 gallons in the filter bag.

I use a decent amount of MDF and plywood, and own a 22" drum sander, so
I get plenty of "fine" dust. *It's really obvious just by looking in the
drum how much fine dust the drum catches.


I know you know your dB's. JDS claims 78 dB. Is that even close?
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Robatoy wrote

I know you know your dB's. JDS claims 78 dB. Is that even close?


I'd say so.

I don't have a meter anymore, so I can't measure it. @ 10 feet, it's
comparable to my DC1200, at a much lower pitch. The main note on the
3100ck is down in the 100Hz area. The ductwork makes more noise than it
did before, as the blast gates whistle a bit.

If JDS "A" weighted the measurement, it's EASILY 78, as all of the noise
from the actual unit is low frequency. You can actually talk over it.

It reminds me of firing up a large system with only the subs running.
You could talk, but there was an extremely annoying rumbling distraction
in the background.

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It reminds me of firing up a large system with only the subs running.
You could talk, but there was an extremely annoying rumbling distraction
in the background.



And then you have to change your Depends.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply


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B A R R Y wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
The reason I put one in in the first place was MDF. End up with a
main collector full of MDF dust, the little one under the filters
hardly sees anything.


I get so much MDF dust in the drum, I created a shop made bag holder
to install plastic bags. Dumping the drum was gross.

The bag holder is simply a garbage can that fits inside the drum,
with
the bottom cut out. I install the bag, put in the can, and work...
At dump time, I pull out the can, close the bag, and repeat.


Neat. I gotta do something like that at some point. The drum on mine
is small, since the whole thing has to fit under a 7 foot ceiling, so
it's not that big a deal to take it outside to dump, but it's still
gross with MDF. With the Argentinian hardwoods that I used to be able
to get from CWG though it was a treat--still a lot of dust but it
smelled _incredible_.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:53:34 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On Dec 23, 7:44*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
PDQ wrote:

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.


That's why John said "properly designed".

My JDS has had over 200 gallons of junk sucked in over the last three
months, with less than 2 gallons in the filter bag.

I use a decent amount of MDF and plywood, and own a 22" drum sander, so
I get plenty of "fine" dust. *It's really obvious just by looking in the
drum how much fine dust the drum catches.


I know you know your dB's. JDS claims 78 dB. Is that even close?


I had a real interesting discussion here about "sound suppressors" a few years
ago, don't know if you remember it..
I was trying to figure out how the DC muffler from Penn State could lower the
DB's 7 to 10 db's for "up to a 50% reduction"..
Sounded like snake oil to me, so I asked here and got lots of answers that used
math to explain it and were beyond my understanding..
Then, someone (Dr. Deb?) said that they had one and it lowered it nicely..

I bought one and was really amazed at the difference... Cheap "2 hp" DC from
Harbor Freight, went from shouting to someone next to you to talking in an
almost normal tone..

Got explained to me later in terms that I could understand.. Something about
taking even a few DB off the top lowers the "annoying" level quite a bit..
Anyway, works for me and I'd never run a DC without one now.. YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

mac davis wrote in
:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:53:34 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On Dec 23, 7:44*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
PDQ wrote:

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think
jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine
stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

That's why John said "properly designed".

My JDS has had over 200 gallons of junk sucked in over the last
three months, with less than 2 gallons in the filter bag.

I use a decent amount of MDF and plywood, and own a 22" drum sander,
so I get plenty of "fine" dust. *It's really obvious just by looking
in the drum how much fine dust the drum catches.


I know you know your dB's. JDS claims 78 dB. Is that even close?


I had a real interesting discussion here about "sound suppressors" a
few years ago, don't know if you remember it..
I was trying to figure out how the DC muffler from Penn State could
lower the DB's 7 to 10 db's for "up to a 50% reduction"..
Sounded like snake oil to me, so I asked here and got lots of answers
that used math to explain it and were beyond my understanding..
Then, someone (Dr. Deb?) said that they had one and it lowered it
nicely..

I bought one and was really amazed at the difference... Cheap "2 hp"
DC from Harbor Freight, went from shouting to someone next to you to
talking in an almost normal tone..

Got explained to me later in terms that I could understand.. Something
about taking even a few DB off the top lowers the "annoying" level
quite a bit.. Anyway, works for me and I'd never run a DC without one
now.. YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hey mac!

The scale for dB is logarithmic - I think that each increase of 1 means
10 times more, just as the Richter scale for earthquakes. Better look at
wikipedia for more info. How come you need a reduction of 7 to 10 dB for
50% reduction is not immediately clear, unless we have to go back to the
Bel decibel is 1/10 of a Bel). Then 10 dB=1 B, or a factor 2. But maybe
I need more coffee, and then advice from DIL, who teaches physics in a
high school.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
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Han wrote:

mac davis wrote in
:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:53:34 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
wrote:

On Dec 23, 7:44*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
PDQ wrote:

As to fines, the cyclone culls out almost all the big lumps (think
jointer or planer) but does not do as good a job with the fine
stuff as a lot of that still gets to the filters.

That's why John said "properly designed".

My JDS has had over 200 gallons of junk sucked in over the last
three months, with less than 2 gallons in the filter bag.

I use a decent amount of MDF and plywood, and own a 22" drum sander,
so I get plenty of "fine" dust. *It's really obvious just by looking
in the drum how much fine dust the drum catches.

I know you know your dB's. JDS claims 78 dB. Is that even close?


I had a real interesting discussion here about "sound suppressors" a
few years ago, don't know if you remember it..
I was trying to figure out how the DC muffler from Penn State could
lower the DB's 7 to 10 db's for "up to a 50% reduction"..
Sounded like snake oil to me, so I asked here and got lots of answers
that used math to explain it and were beyond my understanding..
Then, someone (Dr. Deb?) said that they had one and it lowered it
nicely..

I bought one and was really amazed at the difference... Cheap "2 hp"
DC from Harbor Freight, went from shouting to someone next to you to
talking in an almost normal tone..

Got explained to me later in terms that I could understand.. Something
about taking even a few DB off the top lowers the "annoying" level
quite a bit.. Anyway, works for me and I'd never run a DC without one
now.. YMWV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hey mac!

The scale for dB is logarithmic - I think that each increase of 1 means
10 times more, just as the Richter scale for earthquakes. Better look at
wikipedia for more info. How come you need a reduction of 7 to 10 dB for
50% reduction is not immediately clear, unless we have to go back to the
Bel decibel is 1/10 of a Bel). Then 10 dB=1 B, or a factor 2. But maybe
I need more coffee, and then advice from DIL, who teaches physics in a
high school.


In the Decibel scale, a 3 dB reduction equates to a reduction by 1/2. dB
scale is logarithmic. Depending upon whether one is converting from power
or not, the conversion from linear scale to logarithmic scale is either
dB = 10 * log10(P) or dB = 20 * log10(A).


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
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-MIKE- wrote:
It reminds me of firing up a large system with only the subs running.
You could talk, but there was an extremely annoying rumbling
distraction in the background.



And then you have to change your Depends.




You might! G

One of the systems I used on a regular basis had a full boat of Servo
Drives...


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J. Clarke wrote:

Neat. I gotta do something like that at some point.


Even a slightly over-sized plastic can slit down the side should work.

The bag makes a HUGE difference.
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Default Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

Robatoy wrote:

The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need to
do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP set-up,
all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r



However, you set your cyclone up, vent it outside the building into a
suitable enclosure (I made mine to look like an outhouse). This way, you
get rid of the dust, which is the whole purpose.

Deb
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Dr. Deb wrote:

However, you set your cyclone up, vent it outside the building into a
suitable enclosure (I made mine to look like an outhouse). This way, you
get rid of the dust, which is the whole purpose.


How did you provide make-up air back into the building?

I'd like to do this myself, but haven't seen a method that I like for my
application.
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Dr. Deb wrote:
Robatoy wrote:

The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
to do something.
I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
set-up, all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.

So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
those things?

r



However, you set your cyclone up, vent it outside the building into
a
suitable enclosure (I made mine to look like an outhouse). This
way,
you get rid of the dust, which is the whole purpose.


You also get rid of any warm air in the shop right quick.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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J. Clarke wrote:
: Robatoy wrote:
: The pleated-paper canister filter on my 2HP DC is just overwhelmed.
: Better than the old bag. A bag is good for 1 hour.... I really need
: to
: do something.
: I figure that if I were to upgrade to a double canister 3-4 HP
: set-up,
: all it would do would buy a little time between dumping.
:
: So, I'm told that a cyclone is the way to go. What do we know about
: those things?

: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/Index.cfm

: Just about anything you want to know is there.

Some of it is useful and accurate, some of it is neither.

One should also consult reviews on cyclones from FWW, Popular Woodworking,
and other major magazines. And the engineers at Oneida give free advice
and very useful help in designing and planning a system.

-- Andy Barss

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