I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps
against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a
little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't
touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done
this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but
that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge.

Cheers, Shawn

"Rima Neas" wrote in message
I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but
gaps
against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a
little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't
touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever
done
this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but
that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge.

You may be able to accomplish what you want by either changes hinges that
have a different swage, or swage/straighten the leaves on the ones already
mounted.

Take a look at the following hinge catalog and scroll down a bit to the
swaged hinge section.

http://www.pbbinc.com/website/catalo...nformation.pdf

As a side note: I don't often meet anyone these days who doesn't look at you
with a blank stare when you talk about 'swaging' a door hinge. When I was a
kid I learned to modify/swage a hinge using a metal vise and/or hammer from
my grandfather. I don't know if it was just that there were no other options
available back then, or that my grandfather was just cheap and bought a
train load of one type that wasn't swaged (besides owning a saw mill, he
also ran a hardware store), but I did a lot of it one summer for some reason
.... never thought it was anything but usual.

IIRC, at one time I actually saw a tool for doing this on a mounted door,
but can't find a hint of it anywhere.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Rima Neas" wrote in message
...
I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but
gaps against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the
hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the
leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has
anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will
look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the
hinge.

Cheers, Shawn


Easier still, simply shim the hinge. Put cardboard between the door jam and
the hinge. Use the Yellow Legal Pad backing type cardboard.
By using 1 to 4 shims on each hinge you can also take out sag pretty
accurately.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:46:28 -0800, "Rima Neas"
wrote:

I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps
against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a
little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't
touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done
this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but
that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge.

Cheers, Shawn



I always used to stick a nailset in between the hinge leaves and then
close the door until the gap got right.

Quick and dirty old carpenter's trick.




Tom (dirty old carpenter - not quick)





Regards, Tom.

Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet

"Leon" wrote in message
...


Easier still, simply shim the hinge. Put cardboard between the door jam
and the hinge. Use the Yellow Legal Pad backing type cardboard.
By using 1 to 4 shims on each hinge you can also take out sag pretty
accurately.


Agreed. I use playing cards for small needs.

--

-Mike-

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...


I always used to stick a nailset in between the hinge leaves and then
close the door until the gap got right.

Quick and dirty old carpenter's trick.


Body work trick as well. Were finesse does not work, force does.

--

-Mike-

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

You may be able to accomplish what you want by either changes hinges that
have a different swage, or swage/straighten the leaves on the ones already
mounted.

Take a look at the following hinge catalog and scroll down a bit to the
swaged hinge section.

http://www.pbbinc.com/website/catalo...nformation.pdf

As a side note: I don't often meet anyone these days who doesn't look at
you
with a blank stare when you talk about 'swaging' a door hinge. When I was
a
kid I learned to modify/swage a hinge using a metal vise and/or hammer
from
my grandfather....

www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)


Many thanks for the info Karl. I feel less foolish about this endeavor now
that I know there is a word for it!! Methinks it will be safer to remove
the hinges from the door and screw them into some 2x4s then use the
nail-in-the-leaves trick. Alas, as the original post indicated, 1/8" seems
too wide a gap for simple shimming--the hinge would stand proud of the
mortise. So off to some un-swage.

Cheers, Shawn

PS: On your vise/hammer technique... do you grab the leaf, put in the pin,
and tap to get the right shape? I am sure it takes some skill, but am I
understanding the approach?

Idiot machine... it should say: "Off to un-swage I go."

"Rima Neas" wrote

Many thanks for the info Karl. I feel less foolish about this endeavor
now
that I know there is a word for it!!

Don't count on many recognizing the term these days.

Methinks it will be safer to remove
the hinges from the door and screw them into some 2x4s then use the
nail-in-the-leaves trick. Alas, as the original post indicated, 1/8"
seems
too wide a gap for simple shimming--the hinge would stand proud of the
mortise. So off to some un-swage.

Cheers, Shawn

PS: On your vise/hammer technique... do you grab the leaf, put in the
pin,
and tap to get the right shape? I am sure it takes some skill, but am I
understanding the approach?

To swage a small hinge (one that will fit in it's jaws the full length), a
machinist vice makes it quick and easy. To do a longer hinge may require a
vice and some judicious hammer taps against an anvil (or the top face of the
vice).

(Had to swage a 36" piano hinge to go on a blanket chest recently and it
took a combination of a vice, and an old horseshoeing "stall jack" from my
farrier days (small anvil that you can carry into a stall, stick in the
ground and use to shape a horseshoe without having to get out from under the
horse)).

Swaging a hinge is an intuitive process when you look closely at the leaves,
the barrel of the hinge, and the jaws of the vice. To modify a swaged hinge
to fit the circumstances is where the "nailset trick" comes in.

It's much easier to do than explain ... good luck with it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 23, 6:46*pm, "Rima Neas" wrote:
I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps
against the strike side. *Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a
little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't
touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. *Has anyone ever done
this and is there a good way to do it? *1/8" over will look perfect, but
that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge.

You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? The hinge
side gap is usually smaller for a reason.

R

Rather than surgery on the hinges and the resulting alignment issues with
the trim, wouldn't it be easier to add a thin lamination to the trim to
close the gap?





"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Rima Neas" wrote in message
I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but
gaps
against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a
little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't
touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever
done
this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but
that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge.

You may be able to accomplish what you want by either changes hinges that
have a different swage, or swage/straighten the leaves on the ones already
mounted.

Take a look at the following hinge catalog and scroll down a bit to the
swaged hinge section.

http://www.pbbinc.com/website/catalo...nformation.pdf

As a side note: I don't often meet anyone these days who doesn't look at
you
with a blank stare when you talk about 'swaging' a door hinge. When I was
a
kid I learned to modify/swage a hinge using a metal vise and/or hammer
from
my grandfather. I don't know if it was just that there were no other
options
available back then, or that my grandfather was just cheap and bought a
train load of one type that wasn't swaged (besides owning a saw mill, he
also ran a hardware store), but I did a lot of it one summer for some
reason
... never thought it was anything but usual.

IIRC, at one time I actually saw a tool for doing this on a mounted door,
but can't find a hint of it anywhere.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Jay R" wrote in message
Rather than surgery on the hinges and the resulting alignment issues with
the trim,

You quoted my post instead of asking the OP, and I can't tell you that since
I'm not there.

He asked about "bending" hinges" ... that's the only issue I responded to.

wouldn't it be easier to add a thin lamination to the trim to
close the gap?

Maybe ... but that said, adding "lamination to the trim" would not fix any
door "alignment issues" I've ever seen in the building business, but there's
always a first time ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 24, 6:09 am, "Swingman" wrote:

Don't count on many recognizing the term these days.

I never knew it had a name! I have heard of swaging rifle barrels for
fit, swaging bullets, and swaging as a machining process.

Swaging a hinge is an intuitive process when you look closely at the leaves,
the barrel of the hinge, and the jaws of the vice. To modify a swaged hinge
to fit the circumstances is where the "nailset trick" comes in.

It's much easier to do than explain ... good luck with it.

I feel like Jethro Bodine. You know, the scene where he comes in with
a huge tree saw and a hammer and tells Jed, "I know what I'm gonna be
Uncle Jed, I'm gonna be me a brain surgeon!"

All these years, I too thought like your grandpa that I was just
bending hinge leaves. I have "swaged them" in a large machinist's
vise I have by marking them with an index mark (to tell how much I
have bent them) and then using a piece of 4X4 whacked with a large
hammer.

I have even given doors a love tap while in place after replacing the
jamb side with much longer screws to keep from tearing up the jamb. I
have someone keep pressure on the door by lifting from the knob to
control bouncing, and then I give it tap using a small sledge with a
4x4 against the hinge. It works great.

I wonder if I can get more money for that know that I am "in the know"
about it... ;^)

Probably not. But looking concerned at your client and telling him
your diagnosis is "I am not sure.... we may have to swage" sure sounds
a lot better than we probably just need to adjust the hinges.

Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can
see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little
bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to
walk off.

Still chuckling...

Robert

wrote:

Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I
can
see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little
bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start
to
walk off.


My experience with swaging has been limited to making cable
terminations (i.e.: mechanical distortion of the metal end termination
to fill the spaces around the wires of a cable).

Lew

wrote

I wonder if I can get more money for that know that I am "in the know"
about it... ;^)

Hell yeah, you bet, Bubba!

Like a PhD in Education these days, you don't have to know ****, all you
gotta do is walk the talk!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:43:41 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can
see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little
bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to
walk off.

Still chuckling...

Robert


Y'all oughta by yaself a beginning machinist's kit.

I'da thought that bullet swaging woulda done it for the purposes of
concept embracement... but I reckon I coulda been wrong.


We need to find language to deal with this phenomenon without getting
too sexual about it.


You go first...



Regards, Tom.

Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

wrote:

Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can
see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little
bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to
walk off.


My experience with swaging has been limited to making cable terminations
(i.e.: mechanical distortion of the metal end termination to fill the
spaces around the wires of a cable).


My experience with swaging has been putting in eyes on the end of aircraft
cable for gym equipment. I have the cable cutters and swaging tools in the
garage. You would be amazed of all the things you will use these for when
you have them available. Cost me about a hundred bucks about 25 years ago
and I have used it many times since.

I had to hide the cable cutters from my wife though. She used to steal them
and try to use them as wire cutters and pliers!

One common use for these, that I have done many times, is to make up some
cables for a diagnal brace on a gate. Just buy eyebolts and a turnbuckle
and swage the carefully measured cables to them. Drill holes for the
eyebolts at the corner of the gate. put in the eyebolts and screw the
turnbuckle onto eyebolts in the middle. Tighten the whole thing up and the
gate goes back into a square shape! It doesn't sag any more.

Yeah, I know, if the gate had been built right in the first place, it
shouldn't sag. But it is a quick fix that lasts for years and years. I have
had big gates stay true for 25 years with this fix. Just need to tighten
the turnbuckle a little every few years is all.

Lee Michaels wrote:
....
One common use for these, that I have done many times, is to make up some
cables for a diagnal brace on a gate. Just buy eyebolts and a turnbuckle
and swage the carefully measured cables to them. Drill holes for the
eyebolts at the corner of the gate. put in the eyebolts and screw the
turnbuckle onto eyebolts in the middle. Tighten the whole thing up and the
gate goes back into a square shape! It doesn't sag any more.
....

A couple loops of #10 wire and a winding stick in the middle works just
fine, too....

--

"dpb" wrote
Lee Michaels wrote:
...
One common use for these, that I have done many times, is to make up some
cables for a diagnal brace on a gate. Just buy eyebolts and a turnbuckle
and swage the carefully measured cables to them. Drill holes for the
eyebolts at the corner of the gate. put in the eyebolts and screw the
turnbuckle onto eyebolts in the middle. Tighten the whole thing up and
the gate goes back into a square shape! It doesn't sag any more.
...

A couple loops of #10 wire and a winding stick in the middle works just
fine, too....

Yaa....but, my solution is purtier!!

"dpb" wrote:

A couple loops of #10 wire and a winding stick in the middle works
just fine, too....


Technically known as a "Spanish Windlass".

Lew

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:45:27 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"dpb" wrote:

A couple loops of #10 wire and a winding stick in the middle works
just fine, too....


Technically known as a "Spanish Windlass".

Lew



What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-aye in the morning?

Chorus:
Way hay and up she rises (x3)
Earl-aye in the morning

1. Put him in the long boat till he's sober,
2. Keep him there and make 'im bale 'er.
3. Shave his belly with a rusty razor.
4. Put him in bed with the captain's daughter.

Regards, Tom.

Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet

"Tom Watson" wrote:

What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-aye in the morning?

Chorus:
Way hay and up she rises (x3)
Earl-aye in the morning

1. Put him in the long boat till he's sober,
2. Keep him there and make 'im bale 'er.
3. Shave his belly with a rusty razor.
4. Put him in bed with the captain's daughter.

You've spent too much time at the SouthPort Museum in NYC G

Wouldn't surprise me if you had some of their tapes/CDs.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Tom Watson" wrote:

What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
What'll we do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-aye in the morning?

Chorus:
Way hay and up she rises (x3)
Earl-aye in the morning

1. Put him in the long boat till he's sober,
2. Keep him there and make 'im bale 'er.
3. Shave his belly with a rusty razor.
4. Put him in bed with the captain's daughter.

You've spent too much time at the SouthPort Museum in NYC G

Wouldn't surprise me if you had some of their tapes/CDs.

Or he spent some time in or around the Navy.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

wrote

I wonder if I can get more money for that know that I am "in the know"
about it... ;^)

Hell yeah, you bet, Bubba!

Like a PhD in Education these days, you don't have to know ****, all you
gotta do is walk the talk!


That would be Doctor Degree School I presume. ;!)

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? The hinge
side gap is usually smaller for a reason.

Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side
has almost 1/4". But please explain why the hinge side gap should be
smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to
swing shut.

Cheers, Shawn

On Jul 24, 6:15 pm, Tom Watson wrote:

Y'all oughta by yaself a beginning machinist's kit.

I'da thought that bullet swaging woulda done it for the purposes of
concept embracement... but I reckon I coulda been wrong.

We need to find language to deal with this phenomenon without getting
too sexual about it.

You go first...

OK... cogitated on this one a bit, but to no end. Thinking through
how a bullet is swaged threw me off my game, and it already went
somewhere it didn't need to go.

Let's see... you take a medium hard lead bullet, (jacketed with a
press) and lube it lightly, a quick pass with a little lubricant on
your fingers works fine. With experience you learn as to whether or
not you need to lubricate the hole inside the die, so you check that
as well, adding lube if needed.

With the tapered end of the bullet pointed at the hole in the sizing
die, you gently press the bullet into the die. Small pushes of steady
pressure ensure that you don't get anything out of alignment, which
will surely cause problems. When you are finished, you pull the die
and the bullet apart, and clean off the bullet with a quick wipe with
a soft rag to remove any excess lubricant or accumulated "stuff" from
the swaging.

Sitting here thinking of that whole process, it does seem to remind me
of something... hmmm... nope. Got nothing over here.

Your turn!

Robert

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

"Tom Watson" wrote in message



I always used to stick a nailset in between the hinge leaves and then
close the door until the gap got right.

Quick and dirty old carpenter's trick.


Body work trick as well. Were finesse does not work, force does.

Knew I'd seen a "commercial" version of the dirty old carpenter's trick.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/64...scription.html

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

wrote ...
On Jul 24, 6:09 am, "Swingman" wrote:

Don't count on many recognizing the term these days.


Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can
see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little
bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to
walk off.

Still chuckling...

Here ya go, Bro ... memorize the following, and for best effect, remove your
hat, genuflect, twist your countenance into serious sanctity, and bow your
head in piety before quoting:

"The term "swage" ( a common term in the art of door hinges) means the
offset of the axis of the knuckles of each
hingeplate from the plane of the respective hinge plate that enables the two
hinge plates to rotate to flush against one another.

..... that oughta really get 'em!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:46:28 -0800, "Rima Neas"
wrote:

I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps
against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a
little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't
touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done
this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but
that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge.

Cheers, Shawn



Possibly the hinge is binding. When I install hinges, instead of a
flat mortise I cut a beveled mortise to insure no binding. It's
easier/faster to use a sharp chisel than a router. You might get by
with cutting a slightly deeper mortise.

On Jul 25, 3:26*am, "Rima Neas" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...

You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? *The hinge
side gap is usually smaller for a reason.

Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side
has almost 1/4". *But please explain why the hinge side gap should be
smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to
swing shut.

Because the hinge side doesn't have to have clearance for the
swinging edge of the door to swish past. Hinge side gap
results from not mortising the hinges deep enough (a bad
idea, because those hinge edges are putting significant
load on the mortise edges, you want ALL the hinge buried
in wood).

If strike side gap is 1/4", I'd suggest removing the
trim from the strike side, then fitting new wood wedges between
the stud and the frame, shrinking the door opening. The trim goes
back and covers up the wedges, and it's a tight door again.

On Jul 27, 11:21*pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Jul 25, 3:26*am, "Rima Neas" wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message

....

You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? *The hinge
side gap is usually smaller for a reason.

Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side
has almost 1/4". *But please explain why the hinge side gap should be
smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to
swing shut.

Because the hinge side doesn't have to have clearance for the
swinging edge of the door to swish past. * *Hinge side gap
results from not mortising the hinges deep enough (a bad
idea, because those hinge edges are putting significant
load on the mortise edges, you want ALL the hinge buried
in wood).

If strike side gap is 1/4", I'd suggest removing the
trim from the strike side, then fitting new wood wedges between
the stud and the frame, shrinking the door opening. *The trim goes
back and covers up the wedges, and it's a tight door again.

And what is the head jamb doing during all that? It's not shrinking
in length...

R

On Jul 25, 3:26*am, "Rima Neas" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? *The hinge
side gap is usually smaller for a reason.

Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side
has almost 1/4". *But please explain why the hinge side gap should be
smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to
swing shut.

The hinge side gap does not change with changes in the seasonal
cycle. I'm not sure where you are and what the humidity and
temperature swings are like, but you should adjust doors only when you
know where in the yearly expansion cycle you are (assuming wood
doors). If you adjust a door without taking into account where in the
cycle it is, you are very likely going to be revisiting the problem
later in the year when the door starts binding.

You need to insert some cardboard shims behind the jamb side hinge
leaves. That will take care of the hinge side binding and shift the
door in the opening so that the objectionable gap is less
objectionable.

A strike side gap of 3/16" or less is acceptable and does not warrant
extreme measures. There are other things in your house that probably
require attention and deserve some of your time.

R

On Jul 27, 11:47 pm, RicodJour wrote:

A strike side gap of 3/16" or less is acceptable and does not warrant
extreme measures.

There are other things in your house that probably
require attention and deserve some of your time.

Whoa.... buddy.... get on his ass!

Robert

On Jul 28, 2:42*am, "
wrote:
On Jul 27, 11:47 pm, RicodJour wrote:

A strike side gap of 3/16" or less is acceptable and does not warrant
extreme measures.
There are other things in your house that probably
require attention and deserve some of your time.

Whoa.... buddy.... get on his ass!

I was going to suggest he post some pictures of his house so I could
start making the punch list...

R