Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps
against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. Cheers, Shawn |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"Rima Neas" wrote in message I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. You may be able to accomplish what you want by either changes hinges that have a different swage, or swage/straighten the leaves on the ones already mounted. Take a look at the following hinge catalog and scroll down a bit to the swaged hinge section. http://www.pbbinc.com/website/catalo...nformation.pdf As a side note: I don't often meet anyone these days who doesn't look at you with a blank stare when you talk about 'swaging' a door hinge. When I was a kid I learned to modify/swage a hinge using a metal vise and/or hammer from my grandfather. I don't know if it was just that there were no other options available back then, or that my grandfather was just cheap and bought a train load of one type that wasn't swaged (besides owning a saw mill, he also ran a hardware store), but I did a lot of it one summer for some reason .... never thought it was anything but usual. IIRC, at one time I actually saw a tool for doing this on a mounted door, but can't find a hint of it anywhere. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"Swingman" wrote in message
... You may be able to accomplish what you want by either changes hinges that have a different swage, or swage/straighten the leaves on the ones already mounted. Take a look at the following hinge catalog and scroll down a bit to the swaged hinge section. http://www.pbbinc.com/website/catalo...nformation.pdf As a side note: I don't often meet anyone these days who doesn't look at you with a blank stare when you talk about 'swaging' a door hinge. When I was a kid I learned to modify/swage a hinge using a metal vise and/or hammer from my grandfather.... www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) Many thanks for the info Karl. I feel less foolish about this endeavor now that I know there is a word for it!! Methinks it will be safer to remove the hinges from the door and screw them into some 2x4s then use the nail-in-the-leaves trick. Alas, as the original post indicated, 1/8" seems too wide a gap for simple shimming--the hinge would stand proud of the mortise. So off to some un-swage. Cheers, Shawn PS: On your vise/hammer technique... do you grab the leaf, put in the pin, and tap to get the right shape? I am sure it takes some skill, but am I understanding the approach? |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
Idiot machine... it should say: "Off to un-swage I go."
|
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"Rima Neas" wrote
Many thanks for the info Karl. I feel less foolish about this endeavor now that I know there is a word for it!! Don't count on many recognizing the term these days. Methinks it will be safer to remove the hinges from the door and screw them into some 2x4s then use the nail-in-the-leaves trick. Alas, as the original post indicated, 1/8" seems too wide a gap for simple shimming--the hinge would stand proud of the mortise. So off to some un-swage. Cheers, Shawn PS: On your vise/hammer technique... do you grab the leaf, put in the pin, and tap to get the right shape? I am sure it takes some skill, but am I understanding the approach? To swage a small hinge (one that will fit in it's jaws the full length), a machinist vice makes it quick and easy. To do a longer hinge may require a vice and some judicious hammer taps against an anvil (or the top face of the vice). (Had to swage a 36" piano hinge to go on a blanket chest recently and it took a combination of a vice, and an old horseshoeing "stall jack" from my farrier days (small anvil that you can carry into a stall, stick in the ground and use to shape a horseshoe without having to get out from under the horse)). Swaging a hinge is an intuitive process when you look closely at the leaves, the barrel of the hinge, and the jaws of the vice. To modify a swaged hinge to fit the circumstances is where the "nailset trick" comes in. It's much easier to do than explain ... good luck with it. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 24, 6:09 am, "Swingman" wrote:
Don't count on many recognizing the term these days. I never knew it had a name! I have heard of swaging rifle barrels for fit, swaging bullets, and swaging as a machining process. Swaging a hinge is an intuitive process when you look closely at the leaves, the barrel of the hinge, and the jaws of the vice. To modify a swaged hinge to fit the circumstances is where the "nailset trick" comes in. It's much easier to do than explain ... good luck with it. I feel like Jethro Bodine. You know, the scene where he comes in with a huge tree saw and a hammer and tells Jed, "I know what I'm gonna be Uncle Jed, I'm gonna be me a brain surgeon!" All these years, I too thought like your grandpa that I was just bending hinge leaves. I have "swaged them" in a large machinist's vise I have by marking them with an index mark (to tell how much I have bent them) and then using a piece of 4X4 whacked with a large hammer. I have even given doors a love tap while in place after replacing the jamb side with much longer screws to keep from tearing up the jamb. I have someone keep pressure on the door by lifting from the knob to control bouncing, and then I give it tap using a small sledge with a 4x4 against the hinge. It works great. I wonder if I can get more money for that know that I am "in the know" about it... ;^) Probably not. But looking concerned at your client and telling him your diagnosis is "I am not sure.... we may have to swage" sure sounds a lot better than we probably just need to adjust the hinges. Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to walk off. Still chuckling... Robert |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
wrote: Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to walk off. My experience with swaging has been limited to making cable terminations (i.e.: mechanical distortion of the metal end termination to fill the spaces around the wires of a cable). Lew |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
wrote I wonder if I can get more money for that know that I am "in the know" about it... ;^) Hell yeah, you bet, Bubba! Like a PhD in Education these days, you don't have to know ****, all you gotta do is walk the talk! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:43:41 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to walk off. Still chuckling... Robert Y'all oughta by yaself a beginning machinist's kit. I'da thought that bullet swaging woulda done it for the purposes of concept embracement... but I reckon I coulda been wrong. We need to find language to deal with this phenomenon without getting too sexual about it. You go first... Regards, Tom. Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
wrote ... On Jul 24, 6:09 am, "Swingman" wrote: Don't count on many recognizing the term these days. Swaging... I love it. Wait till I spring that one on the boys! I can see it now. "Looks like you need to swage them sombitches a little bit and you'll be fine". I can see the looks of panic when I start to walk off. Still chuckling... Here ya go, Bro ... memorize the following, and for best effect, remove your hat, genuflect, twist your countenance into serious sanctity, and bow your head in piety before quoting: "The term "swage" ( a common term in the art of door hinges) means the offset of the axis of the knuckles of each hingeplate from the plane of the respective hinge plate that enables the two hinge plates to rotate to flush against one another. ..... that oughta really get 'em! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
Rather than surgery on the hinges and the resulting alignment issues with
the trim, wouldn't it be easier to add a thin lamination to the trim to close the gap? "Swingman" wrote in message ... "Rima Neas" wrote in message I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. You may be able to accomplish what you want by either changes hinges that have a different swage, or swage/straighten the leaves on the ones already mounted. Take a look at the following hinge catalog and scroll down a bit to the swaged hinge section. http://www.pbbinc.com/website/catalo...nformation.pdf As a side note: I don't often meet anyone these days who doesn't look at you with a blank stare when you talk about 'swaging' a door hinge. When I was a kid I learned to modify/swage a hinge using a metal vise and/or hammer from my grandfather. I don't know if it was just that there were no other options available back then, or that my grandfather was just cheap and bought a train load of one type that wasn't swaged (besides owning a saw mill, he also ran a hardware store), but I did a lot of it one summer for some reason ... never thought it was anything but usual. IIRC, at one time I actually saw a tool for doing this on a mounted door, but can't find a hint of it anywhere. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"Jay R" wrote in message Rather than surgery on the hinges and the resulting alignment issues with the trim, You quoted my post instead of asking the OP, and I can't tell you that since I'm not there. He asked about "bending" hinges" ... that's the only issue I responded to. wouldn't it be easier to add a thin lamination to the trim to close the gap? Maybe ... but that said, adding "lamination to the trim" would not fix any door "alignment issues" I've ever seen in the building business, but there's always a first time ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"Rima Neas" wrote in message ... I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. Cheers, Shawn Easier still, simply shim the hinge. Put cardboard between the door jam and the hinge. Use the Yellow Legal Pad backing type cardboard. By using 1 to 4 shims on each hinge you can also take out sag pretty accurately. |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
|
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:46:28 -0800, "Rima Neas"
wrote: I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. Cheers, Shawn I always used to stick a nailset in between the hinge leaves and then close the door until the gap got right. Quick and dirty old carpenter's trick. Tom (dirty old carpenter - not quick) Regards, Tom. Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
|
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message "Tom Watson" wrote in message I always used to stick a nailset in between the hinge leaves and then close the door until the gap got right. Quick and dirty old carpenter's trick. Body work trick as well. Were finesse does not work, force does. Knew I'd seen a "commercial" version of the dirty old carpenter's trick. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/64...scription.html -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 5/14/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 23, 6:46*pm, "Rima Neas" wrote:
I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps against the strike side. *Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. *Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? *1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? The hinge side gap is usually smaller for a reason. R |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
"RicodJour" wrote in message
... You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? The hinge side gap is usually smaller for a reason. Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side has almost 1/4". But please explain why the hinge side gap should be smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to swing shut. Cheers, Shawn |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 25, 3:26*am, "Rima Neas" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message ... You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? *The hinge side gap is usually smaller for a reason. Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side has almost 1/4". *But please explain why the hinge side gap should be smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to swing shut. Because the hinge side doesn't have to have clearance for the swinging edge of the door to swish past. Hinge side gap results from not mortising the hinges deep enough (a bad idea, because those hinge edges are putting significant load on the mortise edges, you want ALL the hinge buried in wood). If strike side gap is 1/4", I'd suggest removing the trim from the strike side, then fitting new wood wedges between the stud and the frame, shrinking the door opening. The trim goes back and covers up the wedges, and it's a tight door again. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 27, 11:21*pm, whit3rd wrote:
On Jul 25, 3:26*am, "Rima Neas" wrote: "RicodJour" wrote in message .... You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? *The hinge side gap is usually smaller for a reason. Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side has almost 1/4". *But please explain why the hinge side gap should be smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to swing shut. Because the hinge side doesn't have to have clearance for the swinging edge of the door to swish past. * *Hinge side gap results from not mortising the hinges deep enough (a bad idea, because those hinge edges are putting significant load on the mortise edges, you want ALL the hinge buried in wood). If strike side gap is 1/4", I'd suggest removing the trim from the strike side, then fitting new wood wedges between the stud and the frame, shrinking the door opening. *The trim goes back and covers up the wedges, and it's a tight door again. And what is the head jamb doing during all that? It's not shrinking in length... R |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 25, 3:26*am, "Rima Neas" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message You're not trying to center the door in the frame, are you? *The hinge side gap is usually smaller for a reason. Hinge side has virtually no gap and binds a little... while the strike side has almost 1/4". *But please explain why the hinge side gap should be smaller--assuming there is enough room on the strike side for the door to swing shut. The hinge side gap does not change with changes in the seasonal cycle. I'm not sure where you are and what the humidity and temperature swings are like, but you should adjust doors only when you know where in the yearly expansion cycle you are (assuming wood doors). If you adjust a door without taking into account where in the cycle it is, you are very likely going to be revisiting the problem later in the year when the door starts binding. You need to insert some cardboard shims behind the jamb side hinge leaves. That will take care of the hinge side binding and shift the door in the opening so that the objectionable gap is less objectionable. A strike side gap of 3/16" or less is acceptable and does not warrant extreme measures. There are other things in your house that probably require attention and deserve some of your time. R |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 27, 11:47 pm, RicodJour wrote:
A strike side gap of 3/16" or less is acceptable and does not warrant extreme measures. There are other things in your house that probably require attention and deserve some of your time. Whoa.... buddy.... get on his ass! Robert |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Jul 28, 2:42*am, "
wrote: On Jul 27, 11:47 pm, RicodJour wrote: A strike side gap of 3/16" or less is acceptable and does not warrant extreme measures. There are other things in your house that probably require attention and deserve some of your time. Whoa.... buddy.... get on his ass! I was going to suggest he post some pictures of his house so I could start making the punch list... R |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Bending Door Hinges?
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:46:28 -0800, "Rima Neas"
wrote: I have a door (utility entry) that is tight against the hinge side, but gaps against the strike side. Easy fix seems to be straightening the hinges a little (where the flat meets the bend around the pin) so the leaves don't touch as tightly, thus pushing the door over a little. Has anyone ever done this and is there a good way to do it? 1/8" over will look perfect, but that is more than you can get by putting shims under the hinge. Cheers, Shawn Possibly the hinge is binding. When I install hinges, instead of a flat mortise I cut a beveled mortise to insure no binding. It's easier/faster to use a sharp chisel than a router. You might get by with cutting a slightly deeper mortise. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Door hinges | UK diy | |||
Door hinges. | UK diy | |||
Door Hinges | Metalworking | |||
2 door hinges for weight internal door? | UK diy | |||
Door Hinges Jig | UK diy |