The new Woodcraft store had its grand opening yesterday and today, they have
been open about 2 months. Have you ever seen 80 cars and trucks parked in
front of a Woodcraft store before? I talked to the owner of all the Texas
Woodcraft stores and he indicated that with 2 cash registers the line went
to the back of the store on Friday. Apparently one customer camped out
Thursday night to save $75 on a Jet mini lathe.
Delta had their large trailer on the lot showing their tools with few people
looking, walking into the store however it was packed with at least 100
customers and probably 20 reps and employees. Oh yeah, that Scott guy from
American Workshop was there but no one seemed to be interested.
I finally found a hose reducer to adapt my Kreg pocket hole jig to my
Festool vacuum for $4, less a 10% discount.
I got to see that bench top planer looking machine that carves wood surfaces
with a router type bit. Very Noisy! It was located at the end of a hall in
the back of the store but you could here it clearly every where in the
store. It sure was nice then they turned it off.
Delta's new Omni jig comes in a box no shorter than 48" long. It must be
very well packed in the box.
Kreg was there showing all its new stuff. Fein was there showing its new
Fein Multimaster. Steel City was there showing everything and the Steel
City stuff looks very well built with attention paid to details. Jet was
there but not showing any thing new, I was surprised that they did not have
the new planer/jointer combo machine on hand.


And then glowing brightly in the front corner of the store was the
FESTOOL rep and display.... AAAhhhh!
He was demonstrating the circle saw, Domino, cordless drills, the Rotex
sander, the smaller less expensive ROS sander, vacuum cleaner, router,
etc. He showed the single hand held ROS and I was impressed. He turned the
sander on, sat it down on some wood, and put his index finger on top to
guide it and to hold it in one spot.
I gave the Rotex a spin and it indeed is a fantastic sander. I sanded about
1 square foot of "splintery rough cut" cherry down to almost "ready for a
finish" smooth in about 20 seconds using 120 grit sand paper. The
aggressive setting has to be seen to be appreciated. Dust was only
detectable on the edge of the board and there was so little that a wet
finger would have removed it all. Sooooo I bought one, the 125, and the rep
threw in 2 Festool Polo shirts and 2 Festool caps.

and then my wife and i headed straight to the quilt store.. '~(

On Jan 26, 5:10*pm, "Leon" wrote:

SNIP

and then my wife and i headed straight to the quilt store.. '~(

LMAO... X 2!

Now that's life in the big city. It's all about compromise, eh? I am
sure Kim doesn't mind - she'll get some good stuff out of the
purchases today, no doubt.

Robert

Just another comment, Leon. I went to Woodcraft last week, and I had
not been in about a year or so. I used to go about twice a month, now
I go a year without being in there.

I still have some amigos there, and we got to talking about the
Festools, Feins, etc. He told me that they literally couldn't keep
the Domino machines or their planer in stock.

Planer: http://www.btisupply.com/detail.aspx?ID=1423

He said that they get in the Domino machines six at a time, and they
are all either spoken for, or gone in less than a week. It has been
that way for about the last 3 - 4 months, according to him.

As for the planer, he has a furniture maker that he sells them to, and
he is in turn selling them to his friends, and recommending them to
other furniture makers. He is selling them as fast as the Domino
machines. When selling them, his cutomers often ask for another
cutter head as well, so they can keep on planing by simply removing
the cylinder with the blades on it and changing it out. Wow...

Oddly enough, he said that in the Festool (and Fein) brand sales
weren't to professionals. At their price point I thought the mix
(based on absolutely nothing of course) would be something like 80%
professional and 20% other. According to him, it is exactly the other
way around. The pros love the tools, but there aren't as many of them
as their are of the others purchasers.

I remember when Fein was the king of that store. No longer so;
Festool has a really large display that takes up more than any other
single brand in the store. I guess the Domino put the way over the
top the way the Fein Multimaster did for its company.

I had no idea there was such a hunger for high end (and expensive!)
power tools on a consumer level.

Shows what I know!

Robert

wrote in message
...
Snip


I remember when Fein was the king of that store. No longer so;
Festool has a really large display that takes up more than any other
single brand in the store. I guess the Domino put the way over the
top the way the Fein Multimaster did for its company.

I had no idea there was such a hunger for high end (and expensive!)
power tools on a consumer level.

Shows what I know!

Robert


I was talking to my wife about that situation. I have noticed that Festool
is certainly going after the hobby market by being offered by Woodcraft and
the like stores. Seems you can buy Festool in any national wood working
store these days and the better known commercial stores. I am not sure I
had even seen a Festool 3 years ago although I had heard of them many years
ago. With so many tool manufacturers dumbing down their tools it leaves a
void for the hobbyist that wants a quality tool. Festool probably
recognized that void. Either way I am impressed with their pricing policy
that protects the dealer and requires the dealer to "sell" the product. And
hope that they are around for a very long time. The 3 Festool tools that I
have are a cut above any brand tool that I have ever owned. My old PC tools
were very close but not any more.

On Jan 26, 7:02*pm, "
wrote:
[snipped for brevity]

I had no idea there was such a hunger for high end (and expensive!)
power tools on a consumer level.

Shows what I know!

What you are observing, is what my grandmother used to say: "We are
too poor to buy cheap stuff."
People are sick-to-death of garbage.

My countertop sales prove that time and time again that people want
something real and are willing to pay for it. This town is full of
Volvos, Hondas, BMW's and Toyotas. And it is not that the garbage is
cheap either. Those manufacturers aren't satisfied by selling you
****, they want top dollar for their ****.

r

On Jan 26, 6:10*pm, "Leon" wrote:
snip
Oh yeah, that Scott guy from
American Workshop was there but no one seemed to be interested.

That gave me a chuckle, its an absolute sin that that guy has a
national show in the first place. I remember when he first started
about 10 years ago and thought it was bad. I recently forced myself to
watch a couple of the recent episodes and I cant figure how but they
have actually gotten worse, way worse. He is really bad. What really
ticked me off was the episodes a long while back when he was clearly
using the show as a way to bankroll his own house and surely got
thousands and thousands of dollars in sponsor donations and or
discounts. Several of the home/wwking shows have been doing that in
past years, Hometime is another.

snip
And then glowing brightly in the front corner of the store was the
FESTOOL rep and display.... *AAAhhhh!

With regards to the other coments about Festools quality and sales I
too find it interesting. Our nearest woodcraft (over 2 hours away)
doesnt seem to move quite as much as I have heard others do. We are in
a bit of a rural area so perhaps thats a part of it. Though we havent
put any Festool in the shop yet several items are on the list for our
next batch of major purchases.

I did some side work for a company a long time ago that was a
distributor for Metabo tools. Real high quality, german made, you just
about couldnt kill them but they cost more. Back then Metabo's reps
and engineers were outspoken in stating that they would never focus
heavily on the US market due to the fact that it was a disposable
society. Coming from germany Metabo's customers were of the lot that
handed down their tools from generation to generation. They had a
circlar saw like the old PC that had a grease resivoir to grease the
main bearings. They said every saw that came in for service in the US,
though the option was readily accessible, had never been greased. They
use to always reference how tradesman in the US would buy cheap saws
and throw them out when they needed an $8 replacement cord. Thats not
me, I have completely rebuilt a couple of our Milwaukee saws several
times. Brushes, bearings, and so on. A good tool should last a
lifetime but will still require maintenance.

While I am a super fan of high quality tools Festool has them priced
right out at the edge where we really have to ponder which will make
the best additions to the shop.

and then my wife and i headed straight to the quilt store.. '~(

Whats worse is that my wife works almost full time with me and she is
just as much of a tool hound as I am. When we walk into a place like
that it usually turns out to be a really bad day. Last time we went
she almost walked out with the RO150, and the CT33, and I was an inch
away from the TS75. Thankfully we talked ourselves down from the ledge
but it will happen one of these days.

I havent quite seen the rage with regard to the Domino, while it does
seem like a fantastic system, it just hasnt really caught my
attention.

Mark

BDBConstruction wrote:

On Jan 26, 6:10Â*pm, "Leon" wrote:
snip
Oh yeah, that Scott guy from
American Workshop was there but no one seemed to be interested.

That gave me a chuckle, its an absolute sin that that guy has a
national show in the first place. I remember when he first started
about 10 years ago and thought it was bad. I recently forced myself to
watch a couple of the recent episodes and I cant figure how but they
have actually gotten worse, way worse. He is really bad. What really
ticked me off was the episodes a long while back when he was clearly
using the show as a way to bankroll his own house and surely got
thousands and thousands of dollars in sponsor donations and or
discounts. Several of the home/wwking shows have been doing that in
past years, Hometime is another.


I think what got me when I was watching his show 10 years or so ago was
seeing him do some cut with a plunge router, complete the cut and unplunge
the router, then sit there for about a minute lecturing that one should let
the router come to a complete stop before moving it. Pretty much tuned him
out after that.



I stopped watching after the Dallas PBS station started running bi-monthly
begathons and kept preempting Norm, Roy, and Scott for such top-shelf
classics as "Why Naomi Woolfe is an American Phenomenon" and the like.
Pretty much made coming back into the house on Saturday afternoons a waste
of time, so I stayed in the shop.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Jan 26, 8:26*pm, BDBConstruction wrote:

Coming from germany Metabo's customers were of the lot that
handed down their tools from generation to generation. They had a
circlar saw like the old PC that had a grease resivoir to grease the
main bearings. They said every saw that came in for service in the US,
though the option was readily accessible, had never been greased.

I remember a couple of commercial vendors/suppliers here started to
carry the Metabo line. None of us knew anything about them, their
support system, their parts inventory availability... nothing. The
Metabo spokesperson I met had the attittude "we're a company of German
engineers so our product has to be good" so he had trouble with us
nuts and bolts guys. I couldn't give a rat's ass about the
promotional brochure, I KNOW my tools will need servicing and probably
parts. I don't want a tool down for 90 days while they send it from
some far off place to the only authorized dealer in town that can
order parts. If it is a tool I depend on, that part is out of the
question.

use to always reference how tradesman in the US would buy cheap saws
and throw them out when they needed an $8 replacement cord. Thats not
me

or me. That's more of that arrogance. None of my partners in crime
are that wasteful either. In fact, we used to get together and buy a
couple of cases of beer and rebuild our saws with new bearings, guard
return springs, brushes, and put on 20' power cords on instead of the
factory 8'. We rebuilt and maintained everything we had. In fact, I
remember buying tubes of that white grease for my old Rockwell 346 and
315 saws.

I have completely rebuilt a couple of our Milwaukee saws several
times. Brushes, bearings, and so on. A good tool should last a
lifetime but will still require maintenance.

I have a 30 year old Milwaukee saw that has been rebuilt about 5-6
times. Don't know how many brushes or triggers, but it has been more
than a few. Probably about 10 cords, too. But it has seen its last
rebuild. Milwaukee not longer has some of the parts I need, nor does
our local supplier. BUT... I did an end run and bought a "vintage"
Milwaukee like mine that was in perfect condition. Paid the same $125
for it that I did for the old one in 1977.

While I am a super fan of high quality tools Festool has them priced
right out at the edge where we really have to ponder which will make
the best additions to the shop.

Well said. If they made a tool that I HAD to have to work on a job, I
wouldn't think twice about it. If I knew it would make me money and
get on the job and be put to work immediately (and stay there!) I
wouldn't bat an eye. My tightfisted squarehead ass simply won't let
me have tools that don't pull their weight. I am not a collector; but
I do love using nice tools, and like to own them. ONLY if they pay
for themselves though.

I have enough tools that get used once or twice a year that I thought
were going to be real home runs.

I really like the idea of buying a tool you know is going to be a
quality tool that is worth the investment. That's why I bought my
Milwaukees 30+ years ago when I could have bought two of any other
"professional" saws for that price. I knew it would last, and I knew
I could get parts for it.

I hope Festool is here to stay, and that some of the other companies
making tools will take note of their success. It couldn't do anything
but good for all of us.

Robert

wrote

or me. That's more of that arrogance. None of my partners in crime
are that wasteful either. In fact, we used to get together and buy a
couple of cases of beer and rebuild our saws with new bearings, guard
return springs, brushes, and put on 20' power cords on instead of the
factory 8'. We rebuilt and maintained everything we had. In fact, I
remember buying tubes of that white grease for my old Rockwell 346 and
315 saws.
*****************

You really know how to throw a party!

I used to take heavy duty extension cord and wire them directly into my
tools. I also had a spare to two around in case any of the cords became
damaged.

I wonder how much of the present problem with waste disposal could be
addressed by rebuilding and repairing things instead of making everything a
throw away or disposable product.

A true craftsman always takes good care of his tools. Any idiot can throw
something away.

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:26:20 -0800 (PST), BDBConstruction
wrote:

On Jan 26, 6:10*pm, "Leon" wrote:
snip
Oh yeah, that Scott guy from
American Workshop was there but no one seemed to be interested.

That gave me a chuckle, its an absolute sin that that guy has a
national show in the first place. I remember when he first started
about 10 years ago and thought it was bad.

But he's no Bruce Johnson!

Check this out:
http://www.mydiyproject.com/diy/ww_other/article/0,2049,DIY_14443_2649546,00.html

He talks a questioner out of using a historically accurate finish on
here grandmother's antique dresser, in favor of satin polyurethane.

Then, he uses more polyurethane to fix a white ring:
http://www.minwax.com/expert/bjohnson/bjohnson_spring2007_transcript.cfm


=8^)

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:26:14 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

I wonder how much of the present problem with waste disposal could be
addressed by rebuilding and repairing things instead of making everything a
throw away or disposable product.


Right on...

You mentioned extension cords. Cut cords easily become two shorter
cords with two new plugs from a hardware store. Some of my handiest
cords are 6 and 8 footers that used to be part of a longer cord. G

The same goes for air hoses.

Sometimes, when the cost of repairing an item is high, I have to
remind myself of the hidden costs of waste as I make the decision.

Boo boo, hiss hiss we never get any fun grand openings here. We have a
Woodworker's Supply but the specials they put on usually look like the tool
thieves from the flea market are the one presenters, much less someone
giving away shirts.

--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Leon" wrote in message
. ..
The new Woodcraft store had its grand opening yesterday and today, they
have been open about 2 months. Have you ever seen 80 cars and trucks
parked in front of a Woodcraft store before? I talked to the owner of all
the Texas Woodcraft stores and he indicated that with 2 cash registers the
line went to the back of the store on Friday. Apparently one customer
camped out Thursday night to save $75 on a Jet mini lathe.
Delta had their large trailer on the lot showing their tools with few
people looking, walking into the store however it was packed with at least
100 customers and probably 20 reps and employees. Oh yeah, that Scott guy
from American Workshop was there but no one seemed to be interested.
I finally found a hose reducer to adapt my Kreg pocket hole jig to my
Festool vacuum for $4, less a 10% discount.
I got to see that bench top planer looking machine that carves wood
surfaces with a router type bit. Very Noisy! It was located at the end
of a hall in the back of the store but you could here it clearly every
where in the store. It sure was nice then they turned it off.
Delta's new Omni jig comes in a box no shorter than 48" long. It must be
very well packed in the box.
Kreg was there showing all its new stuff. Fein was there showing its new
Fein Multimaster. Steel City was there showing everything and the Steel
City stuff looks very well built with attention paid to details. Jet was
there but not showing any thing new, I was surprised that they did not
have the new planer/jointer combo machine on hand.


And then glowing brightly in the front corner of the store was the FESTOOL
rep and display.... AAAhhhh!
He was demonstrating the circle saw, Domino, cordless drills, the Rotex
sander, the smaller less expensive ROS sander, vacuum cleaner, router,
etc. He showed the single hand held ROS and I was impressed. He turned
the sander on, sat it down on some wood, and put his index finger on top
to guide it and to hold it in one spot.
I gave the Rotex a spin and it indeed is a fantastic sander. I sanded
about 1 square foot of "splintery rough cut" cherry down to almost "ready
for a finish" smooth in about 20 seconds using 120 grit sand paper. The
aggressive setting has to be seen to be appreciated. Dust was only
detectable on the edge of the board and there was so little that a wet
finger would have removed it all. Sooooo I bought one, the 125, and the
rep threw in 2 Festool Polo shirts and 2 Festool caps.

and then my wife and i headed straight to the quilt store.. '~(

On Jan 27, 12:03*am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
BDBConstruction wrote:
On Jan 26, 6:10*pm, "Leon" wrote:
snip
Oh yeah, that Scott guy from
American Workshop was there but no one seemed to be interested.

That gave me a chuckle, its an absolute sin that that guy has a
national show in the first place. I remember when he first started
about 10 years ago and thought it was bad. I recently forced myself to
watch a couple of the recent episodes and I cant figure how but they
have actually gotten worse, way worse. He is really bad. What really
ticked me off was the episodes a long while back when he was clearly
using the show as a way to bankroll his own house and surely got
thousands and thousands of dollars in sponsor donations and or
discounts. Several of the home/wwking shows have been doing that in
past years, Hometime is another.

* I think what got me when I was watching his show 10 years or so ago was
seeing him do some cut with a plunge router, complete the cut and unplunge
the router, then sit there for about a minute lecturing that one should let
the router come to a complete stop before moving it. *Pretty much tuned him
out after that.

I stopped watching after the Dallas PBS station started running bi-monthly
begathons and kept preempting Norm, Roy, and Scott for such top-shelf
classics as "Why Naomi Woolfe is an American Phenomenon" and the like.
Pretty much made coming back into the house on Saturday afternoons a waste
of time, so I stayed in the shop.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agreed, one of the episodes I watched a couple weeks ago was very
similar to the plunge router routine you mention except it happened
about 45 times through the show. He has an obsession with calling out
the specs of his tools (I am sure trying to overly satisfy the
sponsors). He just does it in such a dorky way that comes off like he
is very unskilled. Like when he would use his table saw he would call
out the HP of the motor, length of the fence, as well as many other
stats you would see on the brochure. Another I watched he was touting
Delta's new laser crosshairs for their drill press. Hard to explain
but its so dorky its nausiating. All that coupled with pretty bad
designs and poor craftsmanship make it a flop.

I agree with the PBS thing but for the shows youre talking about there
is nothing else that can even hold a cangle to shows like TOH, NYW,
Woodwright, RWS, The turning shows, etc.. The local PBS here took to
not preempting the saturday shows because they received so many
complaints. They do however pop in briefly at the start of the show
telling you that they are not changing the schedule and they hope you
appreciate it and make a contribution. Its a double edged sword. There
are no other sources that provide uninterupted programming (even
though PBS pushes ads out to the ends of the show) of the quality they
do. Its worth 25 or 50 dollars a year to me. Hell, most pay several
times that per month for 100 channels of flagrant advertising with 30
minutes of content per hour to keep you on the hook.

I wish they had a way (through satellite TV or something) to allow you
to view the non-fundraising programming if you have made a donation.
How long that access would last after xx$ would be the sticky part but
I bet contributions would go up. All said and done, I am affraid the
days are ending for shows like TOH and the like. When you start seeing
the big box logos on a show as good as that I think its a sign of bad
things to come. When I watched one a long time ago and saw Tom Silva
reach up and grab the handle of a Rigid miter saw it said it all Shows
like Hometime have been big box whores forever but TOH always stayed
above the bottom of the barrel in that area. I hope they can stay on
course.

Mark

On Jan 27, 4:44*am, "
wrote:

I remember a couple of commercial vendors/suppliers here started to
carry the Metabo line. *None of us knew anything about them, their
support system, their parts inventory availability... nothing. *The
Metabo spokesperson I met had the attittude "we're a company of German
engineers so our product has to be good" so he had trouble with us
nuts and bolts guys.

I think that was one of their big problems in the early stages and
perhaps even today. It seemed like, through training, Metabo
corporate, got that snobbery into their US reps. Saddly, Metabo is and
was, much like Festool. They inovated many of the things we see in
todays tools. They built tools that would rarely need to come in for
service. They were the inovators of electronics in tools. We have used
their electronic grinders for years, there is no comparison. One of
the reps told me some funny stuff about the electronics when they
first came out. An electronic tool idles consuming only about 90 volts/
low amps, as load is applied to the tool it applies whatever of the
remaining power needed to maintain a constant operating speed. This is
whether its a drill, grinder, belt sander, whatever. Of course many of
todays tools have this now, routers, DW's belt sander, etc.. They
confuse a lot of people to hear a tool spin up, then spin back down
slightly to idle. Well when Metabo would give a shop a few grinders
for a trial the guys on the floor would think the grinder was not
removing any material because subconsciously they always gauged the
work being done buy the bogging down of the grinder. These were guys
that had been grinding for decades. It would wreak havoc on their work
having a grinder that never bogged down. A tool that was doing the
work for them instea of the other way around. In some cases guys would
exhaust themselves pushing harder and harder all day long trying to
get the tool to bog. Shops would say they were going through wheels
more, come to find out guys were tossing them thinking they werent
cutting. Again, though the tool was actually better, it would get sent
back or put in the crib. Metabo however couldnt get the knowldge out
there and applied. Its that old habbits thing.


I don't want a tool down for 90 days while they send it from
some far off place to the only authorized dealer in town that can
order parts. *If it is a tool I depend on, that part is out of the
question.

Yeah, at least for us, that was never an issue. Even when Metabo first
came on line in the US their tools and parts were shipped in on
tractor trailers and UPS trucks just like every other tool MFR. The
tools and parts were always available through distribution. The funny
part was, the distributor I did the side work for did A LOT of tool
repair. Some in house and much of it was shipped to authorized service
centers in state or perhaps a state away. The piles of tools shipped
out every couple weeks was big to say the least. But there was rarely
if ever a Metabo in the pile. Back then however, Metabo was not a big
part of the market so grinders, and drills, were perhaps the norm. Now
they have a lot more tools out and things may have changed.

and put on 20' power cords on instead of the
factory 8'. *

That was a Metabo standard that no other tool mfr to this day has
capitalized on. We too have done that for years. Metabo's standard
cord was 15' I believe.

But it has seen its last
rebuild. *

Thats one that should go on the top shelf of your shop with a glass
box around it. Hehe.


Well said. *If they made a tool that I HAD to have to work on a job, I
wouldn't think twice about it. *

Thats the way we are looking at Festool. Like I said, it'll happen.

I really like the idea of buying a tool you know is going to be a
quality tool that is worth the investment. *That's why I bought my
Milwaukees 30+ *years ago when I could have bought two of any other
"professional" saws for that price. *I knew it would last, and I knew
I could get parts for it.

Ufortunately that was, and is not (in my opinion) the norm. When I was
introduced to Metabo tools was when Makita was making its big push
into the US. They gave birth to the $45.00 skill saw that you took on
a roof to cut in a ridge vent and then threw it away because you
burned it up. A trigger for that saw (and you may as well throw in a
strain relief and cord while you were in there) cost more than 1/2 the
purchase price of the saw. Makita and the like started the low cost
low quality tool revolution with regard to tradesman, I am not talking
the homeowner market (skil, B&D, etc). Sawzall's with plastic parts in
the nose, and so on. Shortly thereafter B&D bought DeWalt and made
some horribly bad tools in the early days of DeWalt's consumer line.
Many of those early DeWalt tools were so sh*tty that today I am still
reluctant to buy DeWalt though we own several.

Right around this time was when the general mindset on quality was
being taken over by the big box mentality. A move away from local
suppliers, knowledgable suppliers, local distribution, and away from
quality. That was about 20 years ago and things havent even begun to
change though I too think people are finally seeing the light that
they have been dooped by the low quality that is todays normal
quality.


I hope Festool is here to stay, and that some of the other companies
making tools will take note of their success. *It couldn't do anything
but good for all of us.

Here here!

Maxwell Lol wrote:

There is also the class of people who have money, but not free time.
And they would rather spend 10 times the price on a tool that will
save them time.

I have a lot of money, but it's all tied up in debt! (Not really - the
money or debt)

On Jan 27, 6:26*am, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:

I wonder how much of the present problem with waste disposal could be
addressed by rebuilding and repairing things instead of making everything a
throw away or disposable product.

More than you could imagine, but it aint gonna happen until there are
copious quantities of personal and financial pain to motivate the
average US consumer. They are just too lazy to do it out of conscience
alone and too short sighted to see that it is a benefit for them to do
so. After that you have to deal with the marketers getting people to
throw away a perfectly good product just because the newest one has
come along. Upgrading is a fact and will never go away but it has been
taken to an all new level in these days of cheap goods. Recession
(hard)/Depression may be the only things, at least that I could think
of, that would change the mindset on mass. That probably isnt going to
happen so we will likely stay the course.

Mark

On Jan 27, 8:50*am, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"
wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:26:14 -0500, "Lee Michaels"

wrote:
I wonder how much of the present problem with waste disposal could be
addressed by rebuilding and repairing things instead of making everything a
throw away or disposable product.

Right on...

You mentioned extension cords. * Cut cords easily become two shorter
cords with two new plugs from a hardware store. *Some of my handiest
cords are 6 and 8 footers that used to be part of a longer cord. *G


Costco had a 100' 12 ga extension cord on for really cheap. I have no
use for 100' of cord, but bought it anyway with the intent to cut at
25, 25, and 50. Those get use all the time. I bought proper industrial
grade plugs as well. I guess it is a modular 100' cord now? g

On Jan 27, 12:20*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jan 27, 8:50*am, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:26:14 -0500, "Lee Michaels"

wrote:
I wonder how much of the present problem with waste disposal could be
addressed by rebuilding and repairing things instead of making everything a
throw away or disposable product.

Right on...

You mentioned extension cords. * Cut cords easily become two shorter
cords with two new plugs from a hardware store. *Some of my handiest
cords are 6 and 8 footers that used to be part of a longer cord. *G

Costco had a 100' 12 ga extension cord on for really cheap. I have no
use for 100' of cord, but bought it anyway with the intent to cut at
25, 25, and 50. Those get use all the time. I bought proper industrial
grade plugs as well. I guess it is a modular 100' cord now? g

For me personally I just have a thing for molded ends. I dont mind the
replacements in a pinch but I have always had trouble with clamp ons
comming loose, they are bulky, and they catch on everything and some
of them can scratch stuff if you are not carefull and they get yanked
on a job. I wouldnt mind them at all in a more static (not moving them
around a lot) application. If you dont mind them its a great way to go
and you'll surely be ahead on price.

What really ticks me, and just happened to me, is when I special order
some nice cords and then the cord still pulls out of the molded end. I
just ordered some, what I thought were, really nice #12 50' cords from
the local DeWalt factory store. I mainly wanted the SJEOW cover that
stays soft even in cold weather. The cords themselves are fantastic,
they lay nice even in single digit temps, but the ends have already
pulled off the jacket. I paid like $65.00 a piece and now I have
$260.00 worth of cords that I am not happy with.

Mark

ROY! wrote in
:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:30:08 -0700, "asmurff"
wrote:

Boo boo, hiss hiss we never get any fun grand openings here. We have a
Woodworker's Supply but the specials they put on usually look like the
tool thieves from the flea market are the one presenters, much less
someone giving away shirts.

At least you have Woodworker's Supply. Here we only have Woodworker's
Warehouse on Rt 17.....hmmmm, wait a minute, they closed down. Well we
still have Woodworker's Warehouse on Rt46...hmmm, they closed down
also. Well, actually, we have squat.
ROY!

I heard there was a Woodcraft in New Jersey now. I would have to go and
drive some 45 min to get there (I think), from NJ07410.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:26:14 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


wrote

or me. That's more of that arrogance. None of my partners in crime
are that wasteful either. In fact, we used to get together and buy a
couple of cases of beer and rebuild our saws with new bearings, guard
return springs, brushes, and put on 20' power cords on instead of the
factory 8'. We rebuilt and maintained everything we had. In fact, I
remember buying tubes of that white grease for my old Rockwell 346 and
315 saws.
*****************

You really know how to throw a party!

I used to take heavy duty extension cord and wire them directly into my
tools. I also had a spare to two around in case any of the cords became
damaged.

I wonder how much of the present problem with waste disposal could be
addressed by rebuilding and repairing things instead of making everything a
throw away or disposable product.

A very large part.
If americans as a whole would value quality and maintain / repair
instead of throw away and replace cheap, mabee we would still have a
manufacturing industry too.
Business built their business model on selling a LOT of CHEAP product,
rather than good quality - and to keep up in that world, they had to
outsource - so we get Chinese Junk, and it is getting extremely
difficult to find decent tools, or ANYTHING made in North America.
A true craftsman always takes good care of his tools. Any idiot can throw
something away.






--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

If americans as a whole would value quality and maintain / repair
instead of throw away and replace cheap, mabee we would still have a
manufacturing industry too.

Actually you can lay the blame for that business model at the feet of Andrew
Carnegie.

He is the one who gave birth to the idea of buying a piece of machinery,
running it 24/7, without any maintenance, until it died, then replace it.

Lew

ROY! wrote in
:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:46:29 GMT, Han wrote:

ROY! wrote in
m:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:30:08 -0700, "asmurff"
wrote:

Boo boo, hiss hiss we never get any fun grand openings here. We have
a Woodworker's Supply but the specials they put on usually look like
the tool thieves from the flea market are the one presenters, much
less someone giving away shirts.

At least you have Woodworker's Supply. Here we only have
Woodworker's Warehouse on Rt 17.....hmmmm, wait a minute, they
closed down. Well we still have Woodworker's Warehouse on
Rt46...hmmm, they closed down also. Well, actually, we have squat.
ROY!

I heard there was a Woodcraft in New Jersey now. I would have to go
and drive some 45 min to get there (I think), from NJ07410.

Han,
Are you referring to the Force Machinery on Rt 22 in Union joining up
with Rockler?

You're right, ROY!, I was thinking of that "union" of stores!


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Jan 27, 10:43*am, BDBConstruction
wrote:

But it has seen its last
rebuild. *

Thats one that should go on the top shelf of your shop with a glass
box around it. Hehe.

OK... you are gonna laugh.. so sit down. I get REALLY attached to
some of my old tools that have served me faithfully for years without
complaint, requireing only simple maintenance. So you bet your butt
that saw is in the shop to stay, and it has it own little shelf. The
red plastic is so old and weathered that it turned purple!

I also have an old Sears router that has 1,000,000 miles on it.
Before we could buy "ploughed" or "dadoed" fascia, we had to make our
on on site when framing houses. I used that thing as the only safe
grooving tool pushing those miserable steel bits for about 3 years.
It still runs, and it too is over thirty years old!

I still have my old all metal cased Rockwell 346 circular saw; I don't
know how old it is because I got it used somewhere around 1977. It
runs to this day.

I have an old Milwaukee "super 3/8 holeshooter" that I got in 1976
when they put me on a commercial framing crew. I didn't need a
circular saw, just some good snips and a screwshooter. I used this
drill to frame and hang commercial sheetrock for years. I never did
anything to it but put in brushes and blow it out on tool cleaning
day. It still runs as well, and sometimes I still use it in the shop.

We will never see the likes of those old tools again. That old
Milwaukee drill has BRONZE gears in it! No wonder they never worked
loose or got sloppy.

But everyone seems to be on the "don't bother to rebuild" bandwagon.
Have you taken a tool in for repair lately? Our best local small
power tool repair shop (and authrized dealer for all the big names)
charges $65 to bench the tool, and will apply that to the labor charge
if you want to have them perform the repairs.

I just put a new trigger in an old variable speed/reversible drill.
The trigger was $54 plus tax, which put it at about $60. Add in their
$65 bench fee, and it would have cost me the same as I paid for the
drill a couple of years ago, $125. When I told that to the guy at the
shop, he said, "then why would you have it fixed?" It should be noted
that those guys do a booming business in used tools that are never
claimed once the owners find out what the repairs cost.

I shudder to think what the trigger replacement would have actually
cost as this trigger was as close as they could get, but not an EXACT
match. I had to cut the leads to the trigger, put on new lugs, and
file off a small piece of plastic that was molded into the handle as a
guide for the original trigger.

It sure shouldn't be that way, but it is. And I shudder to think what
one of these German/Swedish/Finnish wonderments will cost when they
break. Ouch!

Robert

wrote:


It sure shouldn't be that way, but it is. And I shudder to think what
one of these German/Swedish/Finnish wonderments will cost when they
break. Ouch!


It is the military performance model.

As close to !00% performance for a finite time, then drop dead and get a new
one.

Pretty decent method for the military when you figure the service life of
some military equipment is probably measured in minutes, not hours or even
days.

Lew

There's one in Allentown, PA

Han wrote:
ROY! wrote in
:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:30:08 -0700, "asmurff"
wrote:

Boo boo, hiss hiss we never get any fun grand openings here. We have a
Woodworker's Supply but the specials they put on usually look like the
tool thieves from the flea market are the one presenters, much less
someone giving away shirts.
At least you have Woodworker's Supply. Here we only have Woodworker's
Warehouse on Rt 17.....hmmmm, wait a minute, they closed down. Well we
still have Woodworker's Warehouse on Rt46...hmmm, they closed down
also. Well, actually, we have squat.
ROY!

I heard there was a Woodcraft in New Jersey now. I would have to go and
drive some 45 min to get there (I think), from NJ07410.

On Jan 28, 2:01*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 27, 10:43*am, BDBConstruction
wrote:

But it has seen its last
rebuild. *

Thats one that should go on the top shelf of your shop with a glass
box around it. Hehe.

OK... you are gonna laugh.. so sit down. *I get REALLY attached to
some of my old tools that have served me faithfully for years without
complaint, requireing only simple maintenance. *So you bet your butt
that saw is in the shop to stay, and it has it own little shelf. *The
red plastic is so old and weathered that it turned purple!

I also have an old Sears router that has 1,000,000 miles on it.
Before we could buy "ploughed" or "dadoed" fascia, we had to make our
on on site when framing houses. *I used that thing as the only safe
grooving tool pushing those miserable steel bits for about 3 years.
It still runs, and it too is over thirty years old!

I still have my old all metal cased Rockwell 346 circular saw; I don't
know how old it is because I got it used somewhere around 1977. *It
runs to this day.

I have an old Milwaukee "super 3/8 holeshooter" that I got in 1976
when they put me on a commercial framing crew. *I didn't need a
circular saw, just some good snips and a screwshooter. *I used this
drill to frame and hang commercial sheetrock for years. *I never did
anything to it but put in brushes and blow it out on tool cleaning
day. *It still runs as well, and sometimes I still use it in the shop.

We will never see the likes of those old tools again. *That old
Milwaukee drill has BRONZE gears in it! *No wonder they never worked
loose or got sloppy.

But everyone seems to be on the "don't bother to rebuild" bandwagon.
Have you taken a tool in for repair lately? *Our best local small
power tool repair shop (and authrized dealer for all the big names)
charges $65 to bench the tool, and will apply that to the labor charge
if you want to have them perform the repairs.

I just put a new trigger in an old variable speed/reversible drill.
The trigger was $54 plus tax, which put it at about $60. *Add in their
$65 bench fee, and it would have cost me the same as I paid for the
drill a couple of years ago, $125. *When I told that to the guy at the
shop, he said, "then why would you have it fixed?" *It should be noted
that those guys do a booming business in used tools that are never
claimed once the owners find out what the repairs cost.

I shudder to think what the trigger replacement would have actually
cost as this trigger was as close as they could get, but not an EXACT
match. *I had to cut the leads to the trigger, put on new lugs, and
file off a small piece of plastic that was molded into the handle as a
guide for the original trigger.

It sure shouldn't be that way, but it is. *And I shudder to think what
one of these German/Swedish/Finnish wonderments will cost when they
break. *Ouch!

Robert

You wont see me laughing. I am the same way with tools. In our last
house we had a breezeway, rustic, lot of rough sawn, timberframe. I
had shelves with tools all around. I have several old tools of my own,
my fathers, and my grandfathers, that still run to this day and I
would never think of tossing them. I have a couple old B&D drills, all
chrome, that were my fathers. I remember using them as a child and to
this day when I pull the trigger the smell of ozone coming out of the
motor sends me back in time hehe. Forget about hand tools, framing
chisels, apron planes, marking gauges, and so on. Its good karma to
pay homage to things that serve you well. I recently pulled some tools
from the trailer and put them in the shop as they have such value to
me I dont trust our guys to use them responsibly. One was my dads
bevel gauge which I have used personally for over 20 years.

I agree with the tool repair of today. I do most all my own repairs
now for the very reasons you state. Around here you are usually
talking close to 100 bucks for almost anything you have done to a tool
and its just too hard to swallow coupled with the parts.

Mark