I'm starting to construct larger pieces (chests, display cabinets,
night stands, etc.) and I very much like the "arts and crafts" style.
I would prefer adhering to those principles and use dowels instead of
screws as much as possible. But I don't want to ignore practicality
either. Would I be better off using screws which are countersunk and
then hide the heads with plugs? (This would, of course, be totally
dependent on the dynamics of the attachment point in question.)

FoggyTown

On Jul 28, 6:50 pm, FoggyTown wrote:
I'm starting to construct larger pieces (chests, display cabinets,
night stands, etc.) and I very much like the "arts and crafts" style.
I would prefer adhering to those principles and use dowels instead of
screws as much as possible. But I don't want to ignore practicality
either. Would I be better off using screws which are countersunk and
then hide the heads with plugs? (This would, of course, be totally
dependent on the dynamics of the attachment point in question.)

FoggyTown

Dowels are cool...but require clamps.
Screws are quick and one can hide the head with a plug.

Your call. (I use both.)
I have found, however, that smaller spindles work better with dowels.
There is a smaller chance of splitting the wood.

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm starting to construct larger pieces (chests, display cabinets,
night stands, etc.) and I very much like the "arts and crafts" style.
I would prefer adhering to those principles and use dowels instead of
screws as much as possible. But I don't want to ignore practicality
either. Would I be better off using screws which are countersunk and
then hide the heads with plugs? (This would, of course, be totally
dependent on the dynamics of the attachment point in question.)

Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your plug.

I use pocket screws where they can't be seen, but wouldn't consider using a
screw with a plug where it could be seen.
I only use dowels when biscuits or pocket screws aren't possible. But once
I get my domino...!

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
I'm starting to construct larger pieces (chests, display cabinets,
night stands, etc.) and I very much like the "arts and crafts" style.
I would prefer adhering to those principles and use dowels instead of
screws as much as possible.

If you really want to adhere to the "principles" of "arts and crafts style",
neither ... traditional mortise and tenon is the way to go, especially for
the larger pieces.

There are some good books out on making Arts and Crafts pieces, the "Shop
Drawing" series by Robert Lang is a good place to get a sense of traditional
construction for this style.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:

Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your plug.


Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I guess the question I wanted to ask was, everything else being equal,
is a dowel as strong as a screw?

FoggyTown

"FoggyTown" wrote in message

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

Are you certain those visible components were not "pinned" M&T joints?

I guess the question I wanted to ask was, everything else being equal,
is a dowel as strong as a screw?

That depends ... what type of join/joint are you planning on using a screw?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:

Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you
are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your plug.


Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no furniture
features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.

I guess the question I wanted to ask was, everything else being equal,
is a dowel as strong as a screw?

Dowels are more rigid than screws, but screws will hold even if a joint is
busted. Does that make them stronger or weaker?
Years ago I built a rather shoddy TV stand out of scrap, always wondered how
strong it was. When I replaced it with something nicer, I tested it.
With 300 pounds of weight on it the glued joints gave way, but I actually
had to hit it repeatedly sideways with a sledge hammer to get it to fail for
the nails.
(I haven't used a nail, except to hold a back on, for a while now)

FoggyTown

Toller wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:
Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you
are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your plug.

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no furniture
features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.
....

You might tell that to Sam Maloof and let him know he's been wrong all
these years...

"There are many places in my furniture where a dowel or
mortise-and-tenon joint just does not work because of the thinness of
the wood; so I use screws. In effect the screw is a metal dowel. I am
not a purist. .... I have no qualms about this."

--from Sam Maloof, Woodworker.

"...as an example, it's nothing more than an end grain to long grain
glued joint, drilled through the rail with 3- to 4-inch screws pulling
it tight. Then the screws are just plugged over with a rosewood or ebony
plug for contrast. ..."

From Gary in KC, from having taken one of his classes on chairmaking...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Toller wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:
Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you
are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your
plug.

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no
furniture features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.
...

You might tell that to Sam Maloof and let him know he's been wrong all
these years...

"There are many places in my furniture where a dowel or
mortise-and-tenon joint just does not work because of the thinness of
the wood; so I use screws. In effect the screw is a metal dowel. I am
not a purist. .... I have no qualms about this."

--from Sam Maloof, Woodworker.

"...as an example, it's nothing more than an end grain to long grain glued
joint, drilled through the rail with 3- to 4-inch screws pulling it tight.
Then the screws are just plugged over with a rosewood or ebony plug for
contrast. ..."

From Gary in KC, from having taken one of his classes on chairmaking...

Should I see him I will tell him. Although the are likely to be unusual
instances to the contrary, plugs are ugly.
"If you can't make it attractive, make it conspicuously ugly"?

Wade Lippman wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Toller wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:
Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy
you are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your
plug.

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no
furniture features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply
ugly.
...

You might tell that to Sam Maloof and let him know he's been wrong all
these years...

"There are many places in my furniture where a dowel or
mortise-and-tenon joint just does not work because of the thinness of
the wood; so I use screws. In effect the screw is a metal dowel. I am
not a purist. .... I have no qualms about this."

--from Sam Maloof, Woodworker.

"...as an example, it's nothing more than an end grain to long grain
glued joint, drilled through the rail with 3- to 4-inch screws pulling
it tight. Then the screws are just plugged over with a rosewood or
ebony plug for contrast. ..."

From Gary in KC, from having taken one of his classes on chairmaking...

Should I see him I will tell him. Although the are likely to be unusual
instances to the contrary, plugs are ugly.
"If you can't make it attractive, make it conspicuously ugly"?

Makes me wonder if you know who Maloof is???

--

dpb wrote:

Makes me wonder if you know who Maloof is???


Ain't Maloof that old guy who can't cut a straight line, so he earns his
living making rocking chairs for his wife?

said with a straight face

Bill
8-)

--
I'm not not at the above address.
http://nmwoodworks.com


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000762-1, 07/30/2007
Tested on: 7/30/2007 12:50:26 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

I have a 50 lb. box of dry wall screws so you know what I use.

JR

On Jul 30, 5:19?am, dpb wrote:
Wade Lippman wrote:

"dpb" wrote in ...
Toller wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message
egroups.com...
On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:
Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy
you are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your
plug.

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no
furniture features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply
ugly.
...

You might tell that to Sam Maloof and let him know he's been wrong all
these years...

"There are many places in my furniture where a dowel or
mortise-and-tenon joint just does not work because of the thinness of
the wood; so I use screws. In effect the screw is a metal dowel. I am
not a purist. .... I have no qualms about this."

--from Sam Maloof, Woodworker.

"...as an example, it's nothing more than an end grain to long grain
glued joint, drilled through the rail with 3- to 4-inch screws pulling
it tight. Then the screws are just plugged over with a rosewood or
ebony plug for contrast. ..."

From Gary in KC, from having taken one of his classes on chairmaking...

Should I see him I will tell him. Although the are likely to be unusual
instances to the contrary, plugs are ugly.
"If you can't make it attractive, make it conspicuously ugly"?


Thank you for your opinion. That IS all it was, right?


Makes me wonder if you know who Maloof is???

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Makes me wonder if anyone in here knows what "arts & crafts" is.
Gothic revival? Medieval revival? One of the basic features is NO
MECHANICAL FASTENINGS.

FoggyTown

"dpb" wrote in message

Makes me wonder if you know who Maloof is???

First, you have to remember where he lives, that his pieces are considered
"art", that "promotion" is a big part of success in that genre (I personally
prefer Moser's less publicized/promoted work), and that he reportedly once
admitted that he started using screws out of ignorance of other joinery
techniques.

As much as I admire his work, and certainly not to detract from what he
does, but if I wanted a "furniture joinery guru" to emulate, I think I'd go
with Klausz.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

FoggyTown wrote:

Makes me wonder if anyone in here knows what "arts & crafts" is.
Gothic revival? Medieval revival? One of the basic features is NO
MECHANICAL FASTENINGS.

I don't know about the fastenings but one characteristic ala Stickey
was exposed joinery. Dowels aren't "exposed joinery".

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:39:08 -0500, dpb wrote:

Toller wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:
Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you
are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding.
On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious
unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your plug.

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts
& crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by
coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something
I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would
make it so the plug is visible.

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no furniture
features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.
...

You might tell that to Sam Maloof and let him know he's been wrong all
these years...

And there must be some reason that they sell dowels in cherry, oak, etc...

http://www.atlasdowel.com/spmatdowels.htm



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:42:39 -0700, FoggyTown wrote:

snip

Makes me wonder if anyone in here knows what "arts & crafts" is.
Gothic revival? Medieval revival? One of the basic features is NO
MECHANICAL FASTENINGS.

FoggyTown

I think that you've just answered your own question... unless dowels are
considered Mechanical Fasteners..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote in
:

snip
And there must be some reason that they sell dowels in cherry, oak,
etc...

http://www.atlasdowel.com/spmatdowels.htm


because people buy them? Folks will buy almost anything.

What else explains Gary Knox Bennett?

Patriarch

On Jul 30, 2:57?pm, mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:42:39 -0700, FoggyTown wrote:

snip

Makes me wonder if anyone in here knows what "arts & crafts" is.
Gothic revival? Medieval revival? One of the basic features is NO
MECHANICAL FASTENINGS.

FoggyTown

I think that you've just answered your own question... unless dowels are
considered Mechanical Fasteners..

mac


No, a dowel is not a mechanical fastener. Screws, nails, brads,
clips, etc. are.

Let me try restate the question.

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to
attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in
strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of
screws?

FoggyTown

FoggyTown wrote:

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to
attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in
strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of
screws?

It's certainly possible. Screws are metal, and have higher strength/size.

It's possible to invent scenarios where screws would hold better than
dowels, because dowels of sufficient strength would not actually fit in
the space required.

Chris

Chris Friesen wrote:
FoggyTown wrote:

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to
attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in
strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of
screws?

It's certainly possible. Screws are metal, and have higher strength/size.

It's possible to invent scenarios where screws would hold better than
dowels, because dowels of sufficient strength would not actually fit in
the space required.

That, of course, is the precise reason Maloof uses screws many places he
does...

Given the tensile strength of steel, it would take a very large dowel to
exceed it from a purely mechanical viewpoint. The screw will almost
invariably pull from the wood by the wood failing long before the screw
itself will fail.

That said, in most situations well-fitted long-to-long grain glue joints
will be nearly as strong as the wood itself. Dowels can be used to
increase glue area or for alignment. In most cases, it's the extra area
that adds strength over the joint without them when there is added
strength or they add the cross grain breaking resistance where otherwise
there might only be a _relatively_ narrow long grain which could break
along the grain (and not necessarily or even likely at the glue joint
itself).

--

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 30, 2:57?pm, mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:42:39 -0700, FoggyTown wrote:

snip

Makes me wonder if anyone in here knows what "arts & crafts" is.
Gothic revival? Medieval revival? One of the basic features is NO
MECHANICAL FASTENINGS.

FoggyTown

I think that you've just answered your own question... unless dowels are
considered Mechanical Fasteners..

mac


No, a dowel is not a mechanical fastener. Screws, nails, brads,
clips, etc. are.

Let me try restate the question.

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to
attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in
strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of
screws?

Dowels get my vote, but it may be irrelevant since the joint that is the
result of the use either will usually be stronger than the surrounding
material.

There is a world of information on the use of various fasteners in wood
available on the www. Check here for starters:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/soltis87a.pdf


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:42:02 -0400, (Jerry -
OHIO) wrote:

I have a 50 lb. box of dry wall screws so you know what I use.

Really shouldn't use drywall screws for joinery, too brittle.


-Leuf

dpb wrote:

: That, of course, is the precise reason Maloof uses screws many places he
: does...


Yes, although ironically he uses drywall screws.

-- Andy Barss

Andrew Barss wrote:
dpb wrote:

: That, of course, is the precise reason Maloof uses screws many places he
: does...


Yes, although ironically he uses drywall screws.

-- Andy Barss

At least initially...like anything else he does, I think he's pretty
pragmatic -- before deep thread thin shank wood screws other than
drywall screws were very common, they were about the only choice w/o a
real specialty search...

--

"dpb" wrote in message

Given the tensile strength of steel, it would take a very large dowel to
exceed it from a purely mechanical viewpoint. The screw will almost
invariably pull from the wood by the wood failing long before the screw
itself will fail.

Food for thought:

Old timey, wooden shutter frames around here were often made with M&T joints
(one side, top and bottom, purposely unglued to facilitate replacing the
shutters) and with a screw countersunk into the edge of the shutter frame
and driven directly into the end grain of the tenons.

The screw hole was plugged to keep out the elements, but could be drilled
out later if/when it eventually came time to replace the shutter slats.

It made for a helluva strong joint on big window shutters, even without
glue.

Haven't seen them made that way in a long time, but it was once a common
method in this part of the country.

As it is a very similar principle, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that was
where old Sam got his idea for screwing his chair joints together?

There's not much new under the sun.



--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message

Given the tensile strength of steel, it would take a very large dowel
to exceed it from a purely mechanical viewpoint. The screw will
almost invariably pull from the wood by the wood failing long before
the screw itself will fail.

Food for thought:

Old timey, wooden shutter frames around here were often made with M&T
joints (one side, top and bottom, purposely unglued to facilitate
replacing the shutters) and with a screw countersunk into the edge of
the shutter frame and driven directly into the end grain of the tenons.

The screw hole was plugged to keep out the elements, but could be
drilled out later if/when it eventually came time to replace the shutter
slats.

It made for a helluva strong joint on big window shutters, even without
glue.

Haven't seen them made that way in a long time, but it was once a common
method in this part of the country.

As it is a very similar principle, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that
was where old Sam got his idea for screwing his chair joints together?

There's not much new under the sun.

Yeah, all the windows on the old barn use pins (essentially a 16d cut to
length) for the same purpose. If need to make a new bottom rail, for
example, just drive them on through, take it apart and do whatever...

I think the impetus for SM was that his pieces were simply too thin and
he had a long vs end grain joint that wouldn't hold at all w/o a
fastener. Being self-taught, he didn't know any better that he wasn't
supposed to do that. Since they worked and lasted, it became his
standard technique...

--

Subject

Disclaimer:

I build "Brick Outhouses", not "Fine Furniture".

Use dowels to pin corner box joints on boat hatches and M/T joints on
furniture.

Do my best to avoid either dowels or fasteners; however, if required,
use S/S, coarse thread, sheet metal, self tapping screws followed by
plugs in typical yacht fashion. (Yes, keep a plug cutter handy)


Lew

On Jul 29, 8:26 am, "Toller" wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:


I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no furniture
features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.


I have quite a few pieces of Stickley which have, in addition to
exposed tenons, visible tenon-pin dowel ends, some of which are of
contrasting wood. Also some with visible dowel pins in corbels. All of
these dowel ends are prominent - no attempt was made to match grain.
It's a feature of A&C furniture.

Makes me wonder if you know who Maloof is???

Well, if he likes to emphasize plugs, then he is someone whose opinion you
have to take with a grain of salt.
Of course you have to take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, unless
you enjoy having no thoughts of your own.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 29, 8:26 am, "Toller" wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:


I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no
furniture
features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.


I have quite a few pieces of Stickley which have, in addition to
exposed tenons, visible tenon-pin dowel ends, some of which are of
contrasting wood. Also some with visible dowel pins in corbels. All of
these dowel ends are prominent - no attempt was made to match grain.
It's a feature of A&C furniture.

Right, and poor handling is a feature of the Ford Focus I rented last week.
All that matters is that you are happy with the poorly made furniture.

"Wade Lippman" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 29, 8:26 am, "Toller" wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jul 29, 3:15?am, "Toller" wrote:


I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no
furniture
features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.


I have quite a few pieces of Stickley which have, in addition to
exposed tenons, visible tenon-pin dowel ends, some of which are of
contrasting wood. Also some with visible dowel pins in corbels. All of
these dowel ends are prominent - no attempt was made to match grain.
It's a feature of A&C furniture.

Right, and poor handling is a feature of the Ford Focus I rented last
week.
All that matters is that you are happy with the poorly made furniture.

Let's see...anyone else you want to add to the list of woodworking idiots?
We've already got Maloof and Stickley. Wanna add Krenov and Klausz just to
round it out? You know, Klausz uses *gasp* white glue to assemble his
furniture. What a moron!

todd

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm starting to construct larger pieces (chests, display cabinets,
night stands, etc.) and I very much like the "arts and crafts" style.
I would prefer adhering to those principles and use dowels instead of
screws as much as possible. But I don't want to ignore practicality
either. Would I be better off using screws which are countersunk and
then hide the heads with plugs? (This would, of course, be totally
dependent on the dynamics of the attachment point in question.)

FoggyTown

Lots of argument to and fro on this, but surely the answer is...

"What would Norm do?"

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
ps.com...
Let me try restate the question.

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to
attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in
strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of
screws?


Removal resistance. The dowel does just fine in shear, but pullout is about
nil.

George wrote:

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
ps.com...
Let me try restate the question.

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to
attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in
strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of
screws?


Removal resistance. The dowel does just fine in shear, but pullout is
about nil.

That depends on grain orientation -- if it isn't cross grain, there's a
pretty good area for glue joint which isn't 'nil'. Although I've never
done a calibrated test, in end grain which where the dowel would have
the most long-long grain, the screw might not have any more holding
power, if as much, knowing that they'll tend to pull out of end grain...

Would be an interesting test just out of curiousity...

--

todd wrote:
....

Let's see...anyone else you want to add to the list of woodworking idiots?
We've already got Maloof and Stickley. Wanna add Krenov and Klausz just to
round it out? You know, Klausz uses *gasp* white glue to assemble his
furniture. What a moron!

You meant "maroon" of course, I presume?

--

Dave Gordon wrote:
"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm starting to construct larger pieces (chests, display cabinets,
night stands, etc.) and I very much like the "arts and crafts" style.
I would prefer adhering to those principles and use dowels instead of
screws as much as possible. But I don't want to ignore practicality
either. Would I be better off using screws which are countersunk and
then hide the heads with plugs? (This would, of course, be totally
dependent on the dynamics of the attachment point in question.)

FoggyTown

Lots of argument to and fro on this, but surely the answer is...

"What would Norm do?"



Brads, of course--(but only until the glue dries)...

--

"George" wrote in message
. net...

"

Removal resistance. The dowel does just fine in shear, but pullout is
about nil.

I'll have to disagree with that statement if the dowel is glued in.

Let's see...anyone else you want to add to the list of woodworking idiots?
We've already got Maloof and Stickley. Wanna add Krenov and Klausz just
to round it out? You know, Klausz uses *gasp* white glue to assemble his
furniture. What a moron!

They are hardly idiots! They make mismatched furniture and convince you it
is fabulous.
But all this is just a fun tangent.

Arts and Crafts simply doesn't feature conspicuous plugs. The fact that
Maloof might use them in some circumstances is hardly authorization for the
rest of us to disregard what looks good.

Large natural emeralds are worth many times the value of large synthetic
emeralds. You know how you tell them apart? By examining them under
microscopes. If you can find a defect, however small, they are natural; if
perfect, synthetic. Otherwise they are indestinquishable. That makes a lot
of sense.
Naturally, they are working to put defects in sythetic stones, so new tests
are being developed.

On Jul 31, 3:28?pm, "Wade Lippman" wrote:
Let's see...anyone else you want to add to the list of woodworking idiots?
We've already got Maloof and Stickley. Wanna add Krenov and Klausz just
to round it out? You know, Klausz uses *gasp* white glue to assemble his
furniture. What a moron!

They are hardly idiots! They make mismatched furniture and convince you it
is fabulous.
But all this is just a fun tangent.

Arts and Crafts simply doesn't feature conspicuous plugs. The fact that
Maloof might use them in some circumstances is hardly authorization for the
rest of us to disregard what looks good.


So you are presuming to speak for everybody on this subject? Tell me,
how do I feel about Iraq? Pickup trucks?

Large natural emeralds are worth many times the value of large synthetic
emeralds. You know how you tell them apart? By examining them under
microscopes. If you can find a defect, however small, they are natural; if
perfect, synthetic. Otherwise they are indestinquishable. That makes a lot
of sense. Naturally, they are working to put defects in sythetic stones, so new tests
are being developed.

What in God's name are you babbling about?

FoggyTown