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#1
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PVC for air
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?
My compressor is capable of 150psi. I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing. Max |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
The consensus in many previous threads is to *never* use PVC for air.
jc "Max" wrote in message . net... Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? My compressor is capable of 150ps. I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing. Max |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb. Bill in WNC mountains |
#4
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PVC for air
In article , "Max" wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? Yes, there is -- don't. My compressor is capable of 150psi. I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing. So use steel. Never, never, never, never use PVC/CPVC for compressed air. It's been discussed here a number of times before. Do a Google Groups search on this newsgroup, and I'm sure you'll find a few horror stories. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#5
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
On 4 Dec 2006 18:05:43 -0800, "Bill" wrote:
PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb. Bill in WNC mountains ...uh, so would you like to provide some context with that? [I've got quite a few feet of PVC pipe in my drip system that I've bumped a few thousand times and thus far, no shrapnel] +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
In article , Max
wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? If you like the idea of PVC shards being driven about the shop by 150 psi pressure, I say go fer it. |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message ... On 4 Dec 2006 18:05:43 -0800, "Bill" wrote: PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb. Bill in WNC mountains ...uh, so would you like to provide some context with that? [I've got quite a few feet of PVC pipe in my drip system that I've bumped a few thousand times and thus far, no shrapnel] You might want to keep an eye on it. I have seen it become very brittle and shatter with no air pressure when I was attempting to cut it. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
In article ,
Max wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? My compressor is capable of 150psi. I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing. Max Neither PVC nor CPVC is considered safe for compressed air service. This is according to both OSHA and the pipe manufacturers. There are some flexible plastic products that can be used for air lines, i don't know how they price compared to copper. -- For every complicated, difficult problem, there is a simple, easy solution that does not work. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - |
#9
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PVC for air
"Dave Balderstone" wrote Max wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? If you like the idea of PVC shards being driven about the shop by 150 psi pressure, I say go fer it. Sounds fascinating but I think I'll pass. I considered black pipe but it's heavy, ugly, and a hassle to cut and thread even though I have the required tools. Over a hundred bucks for the copper choice but what the hell, it's only money. Max (bemoaning the price of copper) |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
Frank Stutzman wrote in
: I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC. You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing you to be lazy. All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected. How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by? Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably going to be quite impatient. -- Frank Stutzman Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than just Perl. :-) http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation) Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC. All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected. Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst -- Frank Stutzman |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/ 425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for $0.91/ft. -Brian Max wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? My compressor is capable of 150psi. I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing. Max |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:16:36 +0000, Frank Stutzman wrote:
Max wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC. All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected. Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst How much is it going to cost you to tear the wall out and replace a busted pipe? -- Frank Stutzman |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
In article , Frank Stutzman wrote:
True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing that black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours. Could have made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a failure once in 10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it. Probably not. DAGS. The failure of PVC pipe with compressed air is pretty dramatic. The potential for injury and property damage is real. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
"J. Clarke" writes: How much is it going to cost you to tear the wall out and replace a busted pipe? Assuming the explosion doesn't tear the wall out for you ;-) Think "pipe bomb". |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
"Frank Stutzman" wrote in message ... Max wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC. All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected. Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst I doubt it would go through, but why would you want to do it anyway? Your chances of a PVC failure or a glue joint failure are pretty high - very high compared to black pipe or copper. Even if you don't get hurt by it, you still have to deal with the repair to the lines. -- -Mike- |
#17
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PVC for air
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#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
Puckdropper wrote:
Frank Stutzman wrote in : I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC. You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing you to be lazy. And you are implying that there is something wrong with being lazy? Besides allowing me to be lazy, the PVC would also allow me to be cheap. Cheap AND lazy. Be still my beating heart ;-) All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected. How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by? As you implied, I'm lazy. When friends drop by the shop, we drink beer. Beer + whirling sharp things means missing fingers, which is a shop verboten ("ten in, ten out" is written on the door). Doubt if any of the beer swillers really give a damn what my plumbing is like. Pneumatic plumbing. Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably going to be quite impatient. True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing that black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours. Could have made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a failure once in 10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it. Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than just Perl. :-) http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation) Again, you imply being lazy, impatient and full of hubris is a bad thing. Its worked for me for 45 years. (what is really scary is I knew exactly what you were talking about without even looking at that URL). -- Frank Stutzman |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
"Mike Marlow" writes: I think a pipe bomb has quite a bit more than 120 or so psi behind it. Yeah, but the failure modes are the same. Copper, however, doesn't fracture at shop pressures - it peels back, which is a "safe" way to fail in a shop, since there's no flying shrapnel. |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
Mike Marlow wrote:
I doubt it would go through, but why would you want to do it anyway? Me too, but as I think about this something else comes to mind... If the PVC failed, and the wall was tightly constructed, the inside of the wall would become quickly pressurized. If the airline was fed from a larger capacity tank that didn't run out of air as the air expanded to fill the wall, the would thing episode make for some interesting results. The scary stuff would probably be contained, but I wouldn't want to be next to it when it went, or with my hands near a spinning blade. At the least, I'd have dirty underwear. G |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
One alternative not yet mentioned is plumbing with actual air hose.
My buddies large bicycle shop is done that way, as there were enough funky curves to make it worthwhile. He's got 10-12 outlets tee'd off of a basement compressor. My own shop has a centrally located 50 foot hose reel hanging from the ceiling, with vinyl coated bicycle hooks strategically located. I just pull the hose to where I need it and put it in some hooks to keep it out of the way. FWIW, the hooks are also great for temporary power cables, hanging bungee pickups for handheld tool dust hoses, etc... |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
" writes:
How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/ 425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for $0.91/ft. There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop. Brian Elfert |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
Frank Stutzman wrote:
Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst Summer heat will do a lot more than soften PVC; it will raise the pressure of the compressed gas. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
Frank Stutzman wrote in
: Puckdropper wrote: Frank Stutzman wrote in : I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC. You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing you to be lazy. And you are implying that there is something wrong with being lazy? Besides allowing me to be lazy, the PVC would also allow me to be cheap. Cheap AND lazy. Be still my beating heart ;-) All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be well protected. How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by? As you implied, I'm lazy. When friends drop by the shop, we drink beer. Beer + whirling sharp things means missing fingers, which is a shop verboten ("ten in, ten out" is written on the door). Doubt if any of the beer swillers really give a damn what my plumbing is like. Pneumatic plumbing. Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably going to be quite impatient. True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing that black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours. Could have made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a failure once in 10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it. Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than just Perl. :-) http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation) Again, you imply being lazy, impatient and full of hubris is a bad thing. Its worked for me for 45 years. Do I? The intent was to point out that doing it well ("right" is ambiguous here) the first time allows you to be lazy, impatient, and full of hubris. Oh well, refer to the sky color on Usenet and someone will think you meant grey instead of blue. *snip* Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
#25
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PVC for air
"B A R R Y" wrote in message t... One alternative not yet mentioned is plumbing with actual air hose. My buddies large bicycle shop is done that way, as there were enough funky curves to make it worthwhile. He's got 10-12 outlets tee'd off of a basement compressor. Depends on what you want to do with the air. If you're planning on running some demanding air tools or painting, then this won't work very well. Too much restriction which results in poor delivery and pressure loss. For a bike shop that might be ok, but for some of the common tools found in a shop/garage it wouldn't be a very good solution. -- -Mike- |
#26
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PVC for air
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... " writes: How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/ 425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for $0.91/ft. There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop. Holy Cow Brian... $$$$$$$$ -- -Mike- |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
I already bought the damn copper!!!
That stuff sure looks like the way to go though. Max (wishing he wasn't so impulsive) wrote in message oups.com... How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/ 425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for $0.91/ft. -Brian Max wrote: Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines? My compressor is capable of 150psi. I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing. Max |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... " writes: How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/ 425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for $0.91/ft. There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop. Brian Elfert Good thought, Brian. Wish I had waited a couple days. Already about half finished with the air line branch......in copper. Max |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:33:14 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes: I think a pipe bomb has quite a bit more than 120 or so psi behind it. Yeah, but the failure modes are the same. Copper, however, doesn't fracture at shop pressures - it peels back, which is a "safe" way to fail in a shop, since there's no flying shrapnel. On the other hand, the ballistic coefficient of PVC shards is going to be pretty low. This would be a good one for "Mythbusters". |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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PVC for air
wrote in message oups.com... How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/ 425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for $0.91/ft. -Brian Not bad for a snub or whip hose, but at only .279" ID, not a lot of air is going to get thru it to the tool where it's needed. Mike |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
On Dec 4, 9:05 pm, "Bill" wrote: PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb. Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture. Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect. At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet. Hollywood has completely distorted the concept of 'explosions'. |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
Think again. Explosion due to rupture of a vessel containing a compressed
gas is extremely violent. High pressure gas cylinders are pressure tested with a non compressible liquid for this reason. "Robatoy" wrote in message ups.com... Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture. Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect. At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet. |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
Robatoy wrote:
Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture. Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect. At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet. BULL ****! ! Lew |
#34
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
On Dec 6, 12:35 am, Lew Hodgett wrote: Robatoy wrote: Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture. Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect. At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet. BULL ****! ! Find me one report/link to an accident that didn't involve air pressures greater than 150 psig or an explosive (oil) mixture. One! |
#35
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
On Dec 6, 12:10 am, "CW" wrote: Think again. Explosion due to rupture of a vessel containing a compressed gas is extremely violent. High pressure gas cylinders are pressure tested with a non compressible liquid for this reason. Don't change the subject with 'high pressure gas cylinders'. Keep the discussion at shop air pressures of max 150 psig. And I know that a vessel with 3000 psig worth of steam can level a generating station. Boilers can throw an entire ship in the air.....I am talking about 150 psig worth of shop air. I am talking about a garden hose and you're switching the discussion over to the Hoover Dam bursting. Find me an accident report. No explosive gasses.....air. 150 psig max. |
#36
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NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
Robatoy wrote:
Find me one report/link to an accident that didn't involve air pressures greater than 150 psig or an explosive (oil) mixture. Why would you expect to find reports of something that isn't done? Lew |
#37
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PVC for air
"Mike Marlow" writes:
There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop. Holy Cow Brian... $$$$$$$$ I just did a quick search online and found 1/2" DOT air line for 71 cents per foot. This was at a street rod place, so a truck dealer should be less. 71 cents a foot is a lot less than copper. don't know what black pipe goes for these days. There is a 500 foot roll on ebay for 35 cents a foot plus shipping. Brian Elfert |
#38
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PVC for air
Mike Marlow wrote:
Depends on what you want to do with the air. If you're planning on running some demanding air tools or painting, then this won't work very well. Too much restriction which results in poor delivery and pressure loss. Depends on the size of the hose. G |
#39
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PVC for air
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Mike Marlow" writes: There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop. Holy Cow Brian... $$$$$$$$ I just did a quick search online and found 1/2" DOT air line for 71 cents per foot. This was at a street rod place, so a truck dealer should be less. 71 cents a foot is a lot less than copper. don't know what black pipe goes for these days. There is a 500 foot roll on ebay for 35 cents a foot plus shipping. Yeahbut, how much for getting connectors crimped on? Maybe in bulk it really won't be so bad, but my first reaction was to the thought of what a simple short length of pre-made air line can cost. I still would not go with 1/2" line - too much air restriction over length. -- -Mike- |
#40
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PVC for air
"B A R R Y" wrote in message t... Mike Marlow wrote: Depends on what you want to do with the air. If you're planning on running some demanding air tools or painting, then this won't work very well. Too much restriction which results in poor delivery and pressure loss. Depends on the size of the hose. G Wasn't the original post referring to 1/2" air hose? -- -Mike- |
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