PVC for air
 

Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?
My compressor is capable of 150psi.
I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a
branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing.

Max

PVC for air
 

The consensus in many previous threads is to *never* use PVC for air.

jc

"Max" wrote in message
. net...
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?
My compressor is capable of 150ps.
I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add
a branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing.

Max

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb.

Bill in WNC mountains

PVC for air
 

In article , "Max" wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?

Yes, there is -- don't.

My compressor is capable of 150psi.
I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a
branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing.

So use steel. Never, never, never, never use PVC/CPVC for compressed air. It's
been discussed here a number of times before. Do a Google Groups search on
this newsgroup, and I'm sure you'll find a few horror stories.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

On 4 Dec 2006 18:05:43 -0800, "Bill" wrote:


PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb.

Bill in WNC mountains

...uh, so would you like to provide some context with that?

[I've got quite a few feet of PVC pipe in my drip system that I've bumped a
few thousand times and thus far, no shrapnel]



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

PVC for air
 

In article , Max
wrote:

Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?

If you like the idea of PVC shards being driven about the shop by 150
psi pressure, I say go fer it.

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
On 4 Dec 2006 18:05:43 -0800, "Bill" wrote:


PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb.

Bill in WNC mountains

...uh, so would you like to provide some context with that?

[I've got quite a few feet of PVC pipe in my drip system that I've bumped
a
few thousand times and thus far, no shrapnel]


You might want to keep an eye on it. I have seen it become very brittle and
shatter with no air pressure when I was attempting to cut it.

PVC for air
 

In article ,
Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?
My compressor is capable of 150psi.
I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a
branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing.

Max



Neither PVC nor CPVC is considered safe for compressed air service.
This is according to both OSHA and the pipe manufacturers. There are
some flexible plastic products that can be used for air lines, i don't
know how they price compared to copper.

--
For every complicated, difficult problem, there is a simple, easy
solution that does not work.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland -

PVC for air
 

"Dave Balderstone" wrote
Max wrote:

Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air
lines?

If you like the idea of PVC shards being driven about the shop by 150
psi pressure, I say go fer it.

Sounds fascinating but I think I'll pass.
I considered black pipe but it's heavy, ugly, and a hassle to cut and thread
even though I have the required tools.
Over a hundred bucks for the copper choice but what the hell, it's only
money.

Max (bemoaning the price of copper)

PVC for air
 

Frank Stutzman wrote in
:

I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of
exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight,
I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC.

You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing you
to be lazy.

All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch
plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do
black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that
the PVC would be well protected.

How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by?

Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through
1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer
heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst

When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably
going to be quite impatient.

--
Frank Stutzman


Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than just
Perl. :-)

http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

PVC for air
 

Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?

I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of
exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm
wondering if I might have done better with PVC.

All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on
one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe
where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be
well protected.

Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2
inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat
might soften the PVC to the point it would burst

--
Frank Stutzman

PVC for air
 

How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/

425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass
compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for
$0.91/ft.

-Brian

Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?
My compressor is capable of 150psi.
I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to add a
branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing.

Max

PVC for air
 

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:16:36 +0000, Frank Stutzman wrote:

Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air lines?

I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of
exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm
wondering if I might have done better with PVC.

All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on
one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe
where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be
well protected.

Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2
inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat
might soften the PVC to the point it would burst

How much is it going to cost you to tear the wall out and replace a busted
pipe?

--
Frank Stutzman

PVC for air
 

In article , Frank Stutzman wrote:

True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing that
black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours. Could have
made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a failure once in
10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it.

Probably not. DAGS. The failure of PVC pipe with compressed air is pretty
dramatic. The potential for injury and property damage is real.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

PVC for air
 

"J. Clarke" writes:
How much is it going to cost you to tear the wall out and replace a busted
pipe?

Assuming the explosion doesn't tear the wall out for you ;-)

Think "pipe bomb".

PVC for air
 

"Frank Stutzman" wrote in message
...
Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air
lines?

I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of
exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight, I'm
wondering if I might have done better with PVC.

All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch plywood on
one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do black iron pipe
where it came through the wall, but other than that the PVC would be
well protected.

Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2
inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat
might soften the PVC to the point it would burst


I doubt it would go through, but why would you want to do it anyway? Your
chances of a PVC failure or a glue joint failure are pretty high - very high
compared to black pipe or copper. Even if you don't get hurt by it, you
still have to deal with the repair to the lines.

--

-Mike-

PVC for air
 

"DJ Delorie" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" writes:
How much is it going to cost you to tear the wall out and replace a
busted
pipe?

Assuming the explosion doesn't tear the wall out for you ;-)

Think "pipe bomb".

I think a pipe bomb has quite a bit more than 120 or so psi behind it.

--

-Mike-

PVC for air
 

Puckdropper wrote:
Frank Stutzman wrote in
:

I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of
exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight,
I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC.

You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing you
to be lazy.

And you are implying that there is something wrong with being lazy?

Besides allowing me to be lazy, the PVC would also allow me to be
cheap. Cheap AND lazy. Be still my beating heart ;-)

All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch
plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do
black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that
the PVC would be well protected.

How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by?

As you implied, I'm lazy. When friends drop by the shop, we drink
beer. Beer + whirling sharp things means missing fingers, which
is a shop verboten ("ten in, ten out" is written on the door).

Doubt if any of the beer swillers really give a damn what my plumbing is
like. Pneumatic plumbing.

Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through
1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer
heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst

When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably
going to be quite impatient.

True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing that
black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours. Could have
made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a failure once in
10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it.

Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than just
Perl. :-)

http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation)

Again, you imply being lazy, impatient and full of hubris is a bad thing.
Its worked for me for 45 years.

(what is really scary is I knew exactly what you were talking about without
even looking at that URL).

--
Frank Stutzman

PVC for air
 

"Mike Marlow" writes:
I think a pipe bomb has quite a bit more than 120 or so psi behind it.

Yeah, but the failure modes are the same. Copper, however, doesn't
fracture at shop pressures - it peels back, which is a "safe" way to
fail in a shop, since there's no flying shrapnel.

PVC for air
 

Mike Marlow wrote:

I doubt it would go through, but why would you want to do it anyway?

Me too, but as I think about this something else comes to mind...

If the PVC failed, and the wall was tightly constructed, the inside of
the wall would become quickly pressurized. If the airline was fed from
a larger capacity tank that didn't run out of air as the air expanded to
fill the wall, the would thing episode make for some interesting results.

The scary stuff would probably be contained, but I wouldn't want to be
next to it when it went, or with my hands near a spinning blade. At the
least, I'd have dirty underwear. G

PVC for air
 

One alternative not yet mentioned is plumbing with actual air hose.

My buddies large bicycle shop is done that way, as there were enough
funky curves to make it worthwhile. He's got 10-12 outlets tee'd off of
a basement compressor.

My own shop has a centrally located 50 foot hose reel hanging from the
ceiling, with vinyl coated bicycle hooks strategically located. I just
pull the hose to where I need it and put it in some hooks to keep it out
of the way.

FWIW, the hooks are also great for temporary power cables, hanging
bungee pickups for handheld tool dust hoses, etc...

PVC for air
 

" writes:

How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/

425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass
compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for
$0.91/ft.

There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can
buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression
fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop.

Brian Elfert

PVC for air
 

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go through 1/2
inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything, but summer heat
might soften the PVC to the point it would burst


Summer heat will do a lot more than soften PVC; it will raise the pressure of
the compressed gas.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

PVC for air
 

Frank Stutzman wrote in
:

Puckdropper wrote:
Frank Stutzman wrote in
:

I did my air in black iron pipe, mostly because of the dangers of
exploding PVC as already mentioned by other posters. In hindsight,
I'm wondering if I might have done better with PVC.

You're better without the PVC. If for nothing else but it allowing
you to be lazy.

And you are implying that there is something wrong with being lazy?

Besides allowing me to be lazy, the PVC would also allow me to be
cheap. Cheap AND lazy. Be still my beating heart ;-)

All of my lines are in the walls of my shop. There is 1/2 inch
plywood on one side of them and steel siding on the other. I'd do
black iron pipe where it came through the wall, but other than that
the PVC would be well protected.

How are you going to show that off to friends that drop by?

As you implied, I'm lazy. When friends drop by the shop, we drink
beer. Beer + whirling sharp things means missing fingers, which
is a shop verboten ("ten in, ten out" is written on the door).

Doubt if any of the beer swillers really give a damn what my plumbing
is like. Pneumatic plumbing.

Anybody wager a guess if an exploding 1 inch PVC pipe could go
through 1/2 inch plywood? The pipes couldn't be hit by anything,
but summer heat might soften the PVC to the point it would burst

When that happens and you want to use the air again, you're probably
going to be quite impatient.

True. But I spent better than a week cutting, threading and cursing
that black pipe. I could have done the PVC thing in a few hours.
Could have made a lot of sawdust in that week. If the heat caused a
failure once in 10 years then maybe the trade off might be worth it.

Hm... looks like the virtues of a Perl programmer apply to more than
just Perl. :-)

http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html (An explanation)

Again, you imply being lazy, impatient and full of hubris is a bad
thing. Its worked for me for 45 years.

Do I? The intent was to point out that doing it well ("right" is
ambiguous here) the first time allows you to be lazy, impatient, and full
of hubris. Oh well, refer to the sky color on Usenet and someone will
think you meant grey instead of blue.

*snip*

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

PVC for air
 

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
t...
One alternative not yet mentioned is plumbing with actual air hose.

My buddies large bicycle shop is done that way, as there were enough
funky curves to make it worthwhile. He's got 10-12 outlets tee'd off of
a basement compressor.


Depends on what you want to do with the air. If you're planning on running
some demanding air tools or painting, then this won't work very well. Too
much restriction which results in poor delivery and pressure loss. For a
bike shop that might be ok, but for some of the common tools found in a
shop/garage it wouldn't be a very good solution.

--

-Mike-

PVC for air
 

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
" writes:

How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/

425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass
compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for
$0.91/ft.

There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can
buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression
fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop.


Holy Cow Brian... $$$$$$$$

--

-Mike-

PVC for air
 

I already bought the damn copper!!!
That stuff sure looks like the way to go though.

Max (wishing he wasn't so impulsive)

wrote in message
oups.com...
How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/

425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass
compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for
$0.91/ft.

-Brian

Max wrote:
Is there any consensus on whether or not to use PVC or CPVC for air
lines?
My compressor is capable of 150psi.
I already have copper for most of my distribution system but I need to
add a
branch and the copper prices are profanity inducing.

Max

PVC for air
 

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
" writes:

How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/

425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass
compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for
$0.91/ft.

There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can
buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression
fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop.

Brian Elfert

Good thought, Brian. Wish I had waited a couple days. Already about half
finished with the air line branch......in copper.

Max

PVC for air
 

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:33:14 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:

"Mike Marlow" writes:
I think a pipe bomb has quite a bit more than 120 or so psi behind it.

Yeah, but the failure modes are the same. Copper, however, doesn't
fracture at shop pressures - it peels back, which is a "safe" way to
fail in a shop, since there's no flying shrapnel.

On the other hand, the ballistic coefficient of PVC shards is going
to be pretty low.

This would be a good one for "Mythbusters".

PVC for air
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
How about nylon tubing? This is similar to what I use:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog...hp/subid=1745/

425psi working pressure, 1700psi burst, it connects easily with brass
compression fittings and it's flexible making routing easy. All for
$0.91/ft.

-Brian

Not bad for a snub or whip hose, but at only .279" ID, not a lot of air is
going to get thru it to the tool where it's needed.

Mike

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

On Dec 4, 9:05 pm, "Bill" wrote:
PVC that gets bumped becomes a schrapnel (sp?) bomb.

Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture.
Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect.
At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet.

Hollywood has completely distorted the concept of 'explosions'.

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

Think again. Explosion due to rupture of a vessel containing a compressed
gas is extremely violent. High pressure gas cylinders are pressure tested
with a non compressible liquid for this reason.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture.
Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect.
At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet.

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

Robatoy wrote:

Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture.
Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect.
At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet.

BULL ****! !

Lew

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

On Dec 6, 12:35 am, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Robatoy wrote: Only if you fill the cavity with an explosive mixture.
Air pressure alone will not have that catastrophic an effect.
At worst, the 'shrapnel' will fall at your feet.

BULL ****! !

Find me one report/link to an accident that didn't involve air
pressures greater than 150 psig or an explosive (oil) mixture.

One!

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

On Dec 6, 12:10 am, "CW" wrote:
Think again. Explosion due to rupture of a vessel containing a compressed
gas is extremely violent. High pressure gas cylinders are pressure tested
with a non compressible liquid for this reason.

Don't change the subject with 'high pressure gas cylinders'. Keep the
discussion at shop air pressures of max 150 psig.

And I know that a vessel with 3000 psig worth of steam can level a
generating station. Boilers can throw an entire ship in the air.....I
am talking about 150 psig worth of shop air.
I am talking about a garden hose and you're switching the discussion
over to the Hoover Dam bursting.

Find me an accident report. No explosive gasses.....air. 150 psig max.

NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO
 

Robatoy wrote:

Find me one report/link to an accident that didn't involve air
pressures greater than 150 psig or an explosive (oil) mixture.

Why would you expect to find reports of something that isn't done?

Lew

PVC for air
 

"Mike Marlow" writes:


There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You can
buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression
fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average shop.


Holy Cow Brian... $$$$$$$$

I just did a quick search online and found 1/2" DOT air line for 71 cents
per foot. This was at a street rod place, so a truck dealer should be
less.

71 cents a foot is a lot less than copper. don't know what black pipe
goes for these days.

There is a 500 foot roll on ebay for 35 cents a foot plus shipping.

Brian Elfert

PVC for air
 

Mike Marlow wrote:


Depends on what you want to do with the air. If you're planning on running
some demanding air tools or painting, then this won't work very well. Too
much restriction which results in poor delivery and pressure loss.

Depends on the size of the hose. G

PVC for air
 

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
"Mike Marlow" writes:


There is also DOT air hose used in trucks/buses with air brakes. You
can
buy it at any heavy truck dealer and you can also get compression
fittings. The 1/2" diameter should carry enough air for the average
shop.


Holy Cow Brian... $$$$$$$$

I just did a quick search online and found 1/2" DOT air line for 71 cents
per foot. This was at a street rod place, so a truck dealer should be
less.

71 cents a foot is a lot less than copper. don't know what black pipe
goes for these days.

There is a 500 foot roll on ebay for 35 cents a foot plus shipping.


Yeahbut, how much for getting connectors crimped on? Maybe in bulk it
really won't be so bad, but my first reaction was to the thought of what a
simple short length of pre-made air line can cost. I still would not go
with 1/2" line - too much air restriction over length.


--

-Mike-

PVC for air
 

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
t...
Mike Marlow wrote:


Depends on what you want to do with the air. If you're planning on
running
some demanding air tools or painting, then this won't work very well.
Too
much restriction which results in poor delivery and pressure loss.

Depends on the size of the hose. G

Wasn't the original post referring to 1/2" air hose?

--

-Mike-