I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete

wrote:
I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

You're only seeing one side of the picture. You're forgetting that
Walmart screws their employees out of benefits.

R

In article .com, "RicodJour" wrote:

wrote:
I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

You're only seeing one side of the picture. You're forgetting that
Walmart screws their employees out of benefits.

And that is related to the quality of the furniture they sell exactly how...?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

You're only seeing one side of the picture. You're forgetting that
Walmart screws their employees out of benefits.

R


Screws them out of benefits? Are you saying that Walmart tells their
employees that they are going to receive benefits but don't actually give
them to them?

RicodJour wrote:

You're only seeing one side of the picture. You're forgetting that
Walmart screws their employees out of benefits.

R

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.
Whether that's screwing them or not is a matter of perspective, I
guess.
I boycott Walmart (for various reasons), but I don't want to get in an
argument about them here... I know there's people here that buy
everything there.

On the benefits issue, which would you prefer, no benefits or poverty
level wages? Wait! Wal-Mart provides both! :-)

On another note, I love waking through stores looking at furniture. It
can be rewarding or condemning. Sometimes I'm checking to see if I can
beat craftsmanship (usually not too hard in discount stores) or whether
I can build better for less. Other times I study their construction
techniques, joinery, finish, etc. Same with catalogues. I think one
of the great rewards with woodworking is that you find, after practice,
you can build the same quality or better (sometimes exponentially
better) than what you can buy and that it came from your own hands. If
there's anything good for America I really think it is the spirit of
woodworking. Wait, I'm getting verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. .
.. . I'll give you a new topic. The Italian Neo Realist Movement in
film was neither Italian nor neo nor particuarly a movement. Discuss!


wrote:
I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete

"bf" wrote in message
ups.com...

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.

If the worker pays for it out of pocket then it's not "benefits".

Whether that's screwing them or not is a matter of perspective, I
guess.
I boycott Walmart (for various reasons), but I don't want to get in an
argument about them here... I know there's people here that buy
everything there.

"bf" wrote in message
ups.com...

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.
Whether that's screwing them or not is a matter of perspective, I
guess.
I boycott Walmart (for various reasons), but I don't want to get in an
argument about them here... I know there's people here that buy
everything there.


No body makes them work there. They are not "screwing" their employees out
of anything.

I never rant but there is always the exception.

I love Walmart when I need to by cheap ****. They have the best. I
think there is a union crowd that hates Walmart and they are aligned
with the same crowd that thinks a minimum wage job should pay enough to
raise a family. Walmart has cheap jobs for unskilled people. Whats so
bad about that. I agree we need a minimum wage but some concept that
says every job should provide full benefits and enough money to live on
is just socialism and we decided not to go that route a few hundered
years ago. Get used to it.


Locutus wrote:
"bf" wrote in message
ups.com...

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.
Whether that's screwing them or not is a matter of perspective, I
guess.
I boycott Walmart (for various reasons), but I don't want to get in an
argument about them here... I know there's people here that buy
everything there.


No body makes them work there. They are not "screwing" their employees out
of anything.

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I never rant but there is always the exception.

I love Walmart when I need to by cheap ****. They have the best. I
think there is a union crowd that hates Walmart and they are aligned
with the same crowd that thinks a minimum wage job should pay enough to
raise a family. Walmart has cheap jobs for unskilled people. Whats so
bad about that. I agree we need a minimum wage but some concept that
says every job should provide full benefits and enough money to live on
is just socialism and we decided not to go that route a few hundered
years ago. Get used to it.


Locutus wrote:


How about getting used to being forced to work "off the clock"?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2088901.shtml


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Here's at least one on-topic response to your observation:

The Wal-Mart where I shop has a small collection of furniture, usually low
cost and assemble-it-yourself type. Most of it is adequate quality but as
you found out, there are exceptions. I bought a good quality hi-fi shelf
unit for $79, whereas the identical unit was selling at Best Buy for $250.

Regards,
Key Bored

wrote in message ...


I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

"bf" wrote in message
ups.com...

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.

If the worker pays for it out of pocket then it's not "benefits".


Sure they are. If you get employee health insurance at work for, say $50 a
month, yet the insurance company is charging the employer $300 a month for
it, what do you call the $250 picked up by the company?

"Nova" wrote in message
news:F127h.3403$%U.3029@trndny07...
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I never rant but there is always the exception.

I love Walmart when I need to by cheap ****. They have the best. I
think there is a union crowd that hates Walmart and they are aligned
with the same crowd that thinks a minimum wage job should pay enough to
raise a family. Walmart has cheap jobs for unskilled people. Whats so
bad about that. I agree we need a minimum wage but some concept that
says every job should provide full benefits and enough money to live on
is just socialism and we decided not to go that route a few hundered
years ago. Get used to it.


Locutus wrote:


How about getting used to being forced to work "off the clock"?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2088901.shtml


How about _not_ "getting used to it", filing a lawsut, and collecting
damages? Because that's what that story is reporting.

That has nothing to do with benefits or wage levels.

On 16 Nov 2006 07:17:42 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

You're only seeing one side of the picture. You're forgetting that
Walmart screws their employees out of benefits.

You mean the uneducated, untrained, unskilled employees who are lucky
they have jobs at all? They don't deserve benefits, they haven't
earned them.

"Nova" wrote in message
news:F127h.3403$%U.3029@trndny07...
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I never rant but there is always the exception.

I love Walmart when I need to by cheap ****. They have the best. I
think there is a union crowd that hates Walmart and they are aligned
with the same crowd that thinks a minimum wage job should pay enough to
raise a family. Walmart has cheap jobs for unskilled people. Whats so
bad about that. I agree we need a minimum wage but some concept that
says every job should provide full benefits and enough money to live on
is just socialism and we decided not to go that route a few hundered
years ago. Get used to it.


Locutus wrote:


How about getting used to being forced to work "off the clock"?


Again, nobody makes them work there. Nobody "forces" them to work off the
clock (though I'm sure that is an isolated instance... no company has
perfect managers)

As Sonoma said, Walmart provides jobs, it's up to the job marketplace to
determine how well those jobs pay. When the demand goes up for that valuable
unskilled labor, I am sure we will see a raise in pay.

"Lee K" wrote in message
t...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

"bf" wrote in message
ups.com...

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.

If the worker pays for it out of pocket then it's not "benefits".


Sure they are. If you get employee health insurance at work for, say $50
a month, yet the insurance company is charging the employer $300 a month
for it, what do you call the $250 picked up by the company?

Or even if the company is only paying $50 and the employee is paying $250,
it's still a benefit. Heck, the employer could not pay anything and it could
still be a benefit if the employer size allows the employees to get
discounted rates.

That is illegal and wrong and should and was prosecuted. If my company
became so large I assume some asshole managers looking to make a better
bottom line might try crap like that too. I wouldn't stand for it and I
don't hear any Walmart executive standing up for it.

Our great country is great because we have and enforce laws. Take
Pakistan or Malaysia where that crap furniture is being made in a
forced labor factory, under government control and approval, using old
toxic motor oil to stain the furniture and then talk about how Walmart
is complicite by buying from them, and then maybe I'll agree.

Nova wrote:
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I never rant but there is always the exception.

I love Walmart when I need to by cheap ****. They have the best. I
think there is a union crowd that hates Walmart and they are aligned
with the same crowd that thinks a minimum wage job should pay enough to
raise a family. Walmart has cheap jobs for unskilled people. Whats so
bad about that. I agree we need a minimum wage but some concept that
says every job should provide full benefits and enough money to live on
is just socialism and we decided not to go that route a few hundered
years ago. Get used to it.


Locutus wrote:


How about getting used to being forced to work "off the clock"?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2088901.shtml


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Locutus wrote:

Again, nobody makes them work there. Nobody "forces" them to work off the
clock (though I'm sure that is an isolated instance... no company has
perfect managers)

As Sonoma said, Walmart provides jobs, it's up to the job marketplace to
determine how well those jobs pay. When the demand goes up for that valuable
unskilled labor, I am sure we will see a raise in pay.

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

They've also cost a lot of Americans jobs by
encouraging/helping/forcing manufacturers to move overseas.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

Sure, nobody forces anyone to work at Walmart, but Walmart is certainly
not a model coorporate citizen. In the end, I'm not sure it's helped
America (other than the Waltons) that Walmart has grown so big.

bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?


They've also cost a lot of Americans jobs by
encouraging/helping/forcing manufacturers to move overseas.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

Only uninsured Wal Mart employees get health care from the taxpayers?

"RayV" wrote in message
ps.com...


State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

Only uninsured Wal Mart employees get health care from the taxpayers?


Wal*Mart bashers seem to think so.

"RayV" wrote in message
ps.com...

bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?


They've also cost a lot of Americans jobs by
encouraging/helping/forcing manufacturers to move overseas.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

Only uninsured Wal Mart employees get health care from the taxpayers?


Of course, Walmart is the only company that doesn't offer full medical
benefits... besides my company...

"bf" wrote in message
oups.com...

Locutus wrote:

Again, nobody makes them work there. Nobody "forces" them to work off the
clock (though I'm sure that is an isolated instance... no company has
perfect managers)

As Sonoma said, Walmart provides jobs, it's up to the job marketplace to
determine how well those jobs pay. When the demand goes up for that
valuable
unskilled labor, I am sure we will see a raise in pay.

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.


Source?

They've also cost a lot of Americans jobs by
encouraging/helping/forcing manufacturers to move overseas.


Those jobs are replaced by other, higher paying jobs. Such as transport,
importation, sales, and distribution. Also, the products are cheaper,
allowing your US dollar to buy more than it otherwise could.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.


So are you suggesting that companies be required to provide full medical
benefits for all employees? Or just Walmart?

Because that certainly would cost us anything would it? $5 roll of toilet
paper anyone?

Sure, nobody forces anyone to work at Walmart, but Walmart is certainly
not a model coorporate citizen. In the end, I'm not sure it's helped
America (other than the Waltons) that Walmart has grown so big.


This is America, that Wal-Mart may only be helping the Waltons is not a bad
thing. (not that it is true).

RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mployment.html

Some of Walmart's practices are just plain sketchy. It's not good
business, and it's certainly not what people would consider "the
American Way".

From one article:
"One of the class representatives in the New York lawsuit, Maria Gamble
of Suffolk County, New York, claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart
as a customer service manager, Wal-Mart supervisors locked her in the
store with her co-employees after the store closed when all employees
were "off-the-clock." Ms. Gamble described her experiences at Wal-Mart:

"When I worked at Wal-Mart, we were routinely expected to work at
times when we were not paid. The worst part of this was we were
locked-in to the store at night. Every week, I worked at least one
shift that went from 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. or 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. When the
store closed at the end of my shift, the manager or the person closing
the store would lock the exterior doors but the hourly employees like
me would have to remain in the store and restock merchandise and count
out the cash registers, even though we had already clocked off and were
not getting paid. The tasks we had to do after the store closed always
took at least an hour-and-a-half, and often two hours. The doors
weren't unlocked until the work was completed. There were other ways in
which I wasn't paid for time I was working, as well, such as mandatory
attendance at unpaid meetings, and times I had to work through lunch
and breaks."

They've also cost a lot of Americans jobs by
encouraging/helping/forcing manufacturers to move overseas.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

Only uninsured Wal Mart employees get health care from the taxpayers?

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r..._walmart.shtml

Walmart keeps pushing everything down. Sounds great, right? What's
not to like about low low prices? It's how they're pushing down and
what gets squeezed out.

I had to laugh at the comments about no one holding a gun to Walmart
employees' heads. Walmart comes in and a bunch of businesses go out.
Due to the economies of scale, which dictates everything that Walmart
does, they don't need as many employees as the other stores would have
required. Those out of work people are now looking for jobs to support
their families and the jobs that are available in the area are Walmart
jobs paying substantially lower wages. Ask yourself the question, what
would you do if you were on one of the lower rungs of the economic
ladder and needed to put food on the table. You'd do about anything -
even work for Walmart.

You're kidding yourself if you think that Walmart's practices only
affect the employees. If you want to contrast their employment
practices with another, similar warehouse store, check out Costco.
Entirely different corporate culture, far better employment practices
and still damn profitable. That's the American way.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...

and still damn profitable. That's the American way.

R


Since you are not an American, it doesn't surprise me that you don't know
jack about the American way.

Capitalism is the American way, and Wal-mart is a shining example of that.
The good part about the American way is that others have the opportunity to
compete with Wal-Mart, if no one is currently capable of doing that, that
isn't Wal-mart's fault.

On Nov 16, 5:36 pm, "Locutus" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in ooglegroups.com...

and still damn profitable. That's the American way.

R

Since you are not an American, it doesn't surprise me that you don't know
jack about the American way.

LOL! Good one! I'm always fascinated by assumptions that lead to
wrong conclusions. Which assumption of yours led you astray and why
did you make that assumption in the first place?

Capitalism is the American way, and Wal-mart is a shining example of that.
The good part about the American way is that others have the opportunity to
compete with Wal-Mart, if no one is currently capable of doing that, that
isn't Wal-mart's fault.

What does competing with Walmart have to do with Walmart hiring illegal
immigrants, locking employees in stores, not paying overtime, sexual
discrimination, etc.? Which of your relatives would you want some of
those things to happen to? Are you saying that those shady practices
are what gives Walmart the edge? Give me an edge and you can go screw
yourself? Is that how you believe capitalism is supposed to work?

BTW, we're not in a capitalist society. Them there are buzz words that
people like to hang on to. Our economy has capitalistic tendencies.
We're actually in a mixed economy where the government regulates a
large portion of it. It is not a free market and it is not a
capitalist economy. Turn of the 20th century America was far closer to
a capitalist economy. That was the era of robber barons, market
manipulation and monopolistic trusts. As, those were the days, eh?

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mployment.html

That's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"
were in the employ of third-party contractors.

So show us the "numerous times".

Some of Walmart's practices are just plain sketchy. It's not good
business, and it's certainly not what people would consider "the
American Way".

From one article:
"One of the class representatives in the New York lawsuit, Maria Gamble
of Suffolk County, New York, claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart
as a customer service manager, Wal-Mart supervisors locked her in the
store with her co-employees after the store closed when all employees
were "off-the-clock." Ms. Gamble described her experiences at Wal-Mart:

Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section 135.05 of the
Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the class of
occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of the NYC
Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was prevented
that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment in the First
Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the manager in the slammer
for four years.

Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the cops
and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and explain the
problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the door down.

"When I worked at Wal-Mart, we were routinely expected to work at
times when we were not paid. The worst part of this was we were
locked-in to the store at night. Every week, I worked at least one
shift that went from 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. or 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. When the
store closed at the end of my shift, the manager or the person closing
the store would lock the exterior doors but the hourly employees like
me would have to remain in the store and restock merchandise and count
out the cash registers, even though we had already clocked off and were
not getting paid. The tasks we had to do after the store closed always
took at least an hour-and-a-half, and often two hours. The doors
weren't unlocked until the work was completed. There were other ways in
which I wasn't paid for time I was working, as well, such as mandatory
attendance at unpaid meetings, and times I had to work through lunch
and breaks."


They've also cost a lot of Americans jobs by
encouraging/helping/forcing manufacturers to move overseas.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

Only uninsured Wal Mart employees get health care from the taxpayers?

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r..._walmart.shtml

Walmart keeps pushing everything down. Sounds great, right? What's
not to like about low low prices? It's how they're pushing down and
what gets squeezed out.

I had to laugh at the comments about no one holding a gun to Walmart
employees' heads. Walmart comes in and a bunch of businesses go out.
Due to the economies of scale, which dictates everything that Walmart
does, they don't need as many employees as the other stores would have
required. Those out of work people are now looking for jobs to support
their families and the jobs that are available in the area are Walmart
jobs paying substantially lower wages. Ask yourself the question, what
would you do if you were on one of the lower rungs of the economic
ladder and needed to put food on the table. You'd do about anything -
even work for Walmart.

You're kidding yourself if you think that Walmart's practices only
affect the employees. If you want to contrast their employment
practices with another, similar warehouse store, check out Costco.
Entirely different corporate culture, far better employment practices
and still damn profitable. That's the American way.

R

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
That is illegal and wrong and should and was prosecuted. If my company
became so large I assume some asshole managers looking to make a better
bottom line might try crap like that too. I wouldn't stand for it and I
don't hear any Walmart executive standing up for it.


I think it more than one or two managers:

"Wal-Mart has known for years of a massive companywide problem of fair
labor standards violations but did not take sufficient steps to address
the problem. An internal Wal-Mart audit of one week of time records in
2000 from 25,000 employees had alerted Wal-Mart officials to potential
violations. The audit found 60,767 missed breaks and 15,705 lost meal
times. It also alerted Wal-Mart executives to 1,371 instances of minors
working too late, during school hours, or for too many hours in a day.
[Steven Greenhouse, “Suits Say Wal-Mart Forces Workers to Toil Off the
Clock,” New York Times, A1, 6/25/02]"

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/facts/

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Nov 16, 6:57 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote...
RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/transform/emplo...That's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"
were in the employ of third-party contractors.

So show us the "numerous times".

Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you.
http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm
A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to
pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the
responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the
government.

Some of Walmart's practices are just plain sketchy. It's not good
business, and it's certainly not what people would consider "the
American Way".

From one article:
"One of the class representatives in the New York lawsuit, Maria Gamble
of Suffolk County, New York, claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart
as a customer service manager, Wal-Mart supervisors locked her in the
store with her co-employees after the store closed when all employees
were "off-the-clock." Ms. Gamble described her experiences at Wal-Mart:Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section 135.05 of the
Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the class of
occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of the NYC
Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was prevented
that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment in the First
Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the manager in the slammer
for four years.

Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the cops
and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and explain the
problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the door down.

Before or after beating the crap out of the boss?

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 16, 6:57 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote...
RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/transform/emplo...That's
busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"
were in the employ of third-party contractors.

So show us the "numerous times".

Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you.
http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm
A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to
pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the
responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the
government.

It's the same bust--you still haven't demonstrated "numerous times". One
bust is not "numerous times".

Some of Walmart's practices are just plain sketchy. It's not good
business, and it's certainly not what people would consider "the
American Way".

From one article:
"One of the class representatives in the New York lawsuit, Maria Gamble
of Suffolk County, New York, claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart
as a customer service manager, Wal-Mart supervisors locked her in the
store with her co-employees after the store closed when all employees
were "off-the-clock." Ms. Gamble described her experiences at
Wal-Mart:Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section
135.05 of the
Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the class of
occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of the NYC
Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was prevented
that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment in the First
Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the manager in the
slammer
for four years.

Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the
cops
and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and explain the
problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the door down.

Before or after beating the crap out of the boss?

Wouldn't lay a hand on the boss, that would be assault. Besides, I'm
getting too old for that ****.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On 16 Nov 2006 07:17:42 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

You're only seeing one side of the picture. You're forgetting that
Walmart screws their employees out of benefits.

You mean the uneducated, untrained, unskilled employees who are lucky
they have jobs at all? They don't deserve benefits, they haven't
earned them.

The key word is unskilled. If an employee doesn't like the low pay, then he
or she should learn a trade or go to night school. If you ask anyone that
has worked in retail for more than a year, Walmart is not the only one to
offer very poor health insurance. However the rest of our benefits were
pretty decent when I worked at the Crapsman house.

I'm not a big fan of RTA furniture, but it does serve its purpose in certain
situations. Kids rooms is a big one. That way I don't keep thinking of how
much time I have in making something to have it trashed in a few months.

Allen

What, their into slavery now? The employees can't leave?

"Nova" wrote in message
news:F127h.3403$%U.3029@trndny07...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2088901.shtml


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

wrote in message ...


I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete


You are mistaken. Wal-Mart does not sell furniture. You went down their
"Reclaimed for Firewood Isle".

On Nov 16, 8:43 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote:
On Nov 16, 6:57 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:

So show us the "numerous times".

Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you.
http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm
A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to
pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the
responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the
government.

It's the same bust--you still haven't demonstrated "numerous times". One
bust is not "numerous times".

From that link I posted - you may have missed this part: "The
investigation evolved out of two prior immigration operations that
began in 1998 and 2001, respectively. These operations targeted
cleaning contractors that were hiring unauthorized workers from Eastern
Europe.
The follow-up investigation culminated on October 23, 2003, with a
series of immigration enforcement actions at some 60 Wal-Mart stores in
21 states. In these actions, ICE agents arrested approximately 245
illegal aliens employed by cleaning contractors and put these
individuals into deportation proceedings."

It was a sting operation where the feds descended on numerous stores..
There were numerous busts. I also am not sure how much more severe of
a situation it would need to be to satisfy you that it was egregious.
There were a dozen companies and the single largest fine in US history
for hiring illegal immigrants. If it were an isolated incident, and
not a pattern of abuse, there wouldn't have been such a large fine.

I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors
that hired the illegal immigrants. Then I reply that obviously Walmart
was aware of it, that it was a pattern of abuse that Walmart took
advantage of to line their coffers, and why they ended up paying a fine
almost three times as much as the 12 subcontractors' fines combined.
Then you call my heritage into question, I pop you one, we scuffle for
a while, then get winded pretty quickly being old farts, and we retire
to a local tavern for some libations and to trade war stories. It's a
formula, but it works.

R

On 16 Nov 2006 12:52:55 -0800, "bf" wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

For which they should be busted because they are breaking the law.
They are not breaking the law by paying minimum wage to people with no
skills.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

That's not their problem. Maybe if these people had an education and
were more responsible, they'd have better jobs. It's not Walmart's
fault that people are stupid.

On Nov 17, 1:10 am, Brian Henderson
wrote:
On 16 Nov 2006 12:52:55 -0800, "bf" wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

For which they should be busted because they are breaking the law.
They are not breaking the law by paying minimum wage to people with no
skills.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

That's not their problem. Maybe if these people had an education and
were more responsible, they'd have better jobs. It's not Walmart's
fault that people are stupid.

Back up there a moment, Hoss. Walmart foists some of what should be
their costs of doing business onto government programs. So instead of
paying their own way, Walmart is essentially getting subsidized by the
government. Do you feel Walmart needs the help financially? You're
okay with a mega-rich company taking some of your tax money simply
because they want bigger profits?

R

"Locutus" wrote in message

Those jobs are replaced by other, higher paying jobs. Such as transport,
importation, sales, and distribution. Also, the products are cheaper,
allowing your US dollar to buy more than it otherwise could.

Considering the amount of jobs that are being contracted at cheaper rates
overseas, it's obvious you have absolutely no idea what you're talking
about.

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:21 GMT, wrote:



I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete
I feel that's a poor way of looking at things, Pete. Go out and find
the worst presentation of things so you can feel better about your own
shortcomings? I'd hate to think what will happen if you are exposed to
a prison.
I try to look the other direction.
When I was younger I spent many hours at the library. I was not
checking out books but studying the woodwork. My hometown had a
library with elaborate oak molding that ran into shelving, readng
desks, window trim and a small set of stairs. I was in awe of the
carpenter who did the work. I worked so hard to make my work measure
up.
Even when carpenters look at my work and compliment, I am not
satisfied because I know where the flaws are - and they are always
there if perfection is our only standard.

J

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
Even when carpenters look at my work and compliment, I am not
satisfied because I know where the flaws are - and they are always
there if perfection is our only standard.

Agree, I think that attitude is the mark of the better carpenter. At times
when I've received compliments on some of the things I've made, I always
known there's some imperfection somewhere and constantly strive not to
repeat that type of imperfection again. If we're not always improving
ourselves, then we're either stagnant or getting worse.

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:21 GMT, wrote:



I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

If you want a real ego boost, go to a Pier One store- all the defects
you've described, with a much higher price tag!