I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.

You might ask for referals through your local lumber yard.



"Alexander Galkin" wrote in message
...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience
with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.

Call an attorney who specializes in construction litigation and ask him the
name of a builder he hasn't sued yet. :)


"Alexander Galkin" wrote in message
...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.

Does your state make complaints public info? If so, any agency that
deals in the building trades or licensing, or consumer protection, may
have info you can use to at least avoid the ones they have complaints
on already. Also, court records are public but not always convenient
to search if not online. You can find out from your state's secretary
of state office, usually, what other names or corporation names a
contractor has gone by, to see if there's a pattern of dissolving
corporations to get out of paying judgments or debts. Asking past
customers of a developer is easier because you can go by property
records and ask customers you choose to ask, not just hand-selected
"references." With a remodeler, that's not likely to work. But, if the
records are public, see if the contractor you're considering has filed
any mechanic's liens, (or if his suppliers have had to), and then try
to find those homeowenrs and ask them their side of the story.
Oftentimes they paid the contractor, but the contractor didn't pay his
supplier. Or, they stopped paying a contractor when he didn't perform,
and he placed the lien himself, even if not valid. It happens. Like
the other suggestions said, ask peole who know, like suppliers,
lawyers, etc, but unfortunately there's no guarantees.

We have several consumer groups where I live, one is called Diamond
certified. I don't know if you have equivalent there. In Ca a contractor is
required to have a license for work over $500, I don't know if NJ has an
equivalent system. Better Business bureau is another source:
http://www.bbb.org
Ron

"Art" wrote in message
ink.net...
Call an attorney who specializes in construction litigation and ask him
the
name of a builder he hasn't sued yet. :)


"Alexander Galkin" wrote in message
...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation
and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work
I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in
central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they
cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience
with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.

In addition, ask for references and follow up on them. A good contractor
won't balk at this request.
Ron

"Ron" wrote in message
t...
We have several consumer groups where I live, one is called Diamond
certified. I don't know if you have equivalent there. In Ca a contractor
is
required to have a license for work over $500, I don't know if NJ has an
equivalent system. Better Business bureau is another source:
http://www.bbb.org
Ron

"Art" wrote in message
ink.net...
Call an attorney who specializes in construction litigation and ask him
the
name of a builder he hasn't sued yet. :)


"Alexander Galkin" wrote in message
...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation
and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the
work
I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in
central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they
cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience
with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just
to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by
alphabet.

Yes, check the BBB but don't assume that a "good" report means
anything. I found out from our BBB that they don't make complaints
public. If they decide to change a company's rating based on number of
complaints, that can take years. In the meantime if you go too
seriously by a "good" BBB report you can be misled. Astonishing, but
many state agencies are not forthcoming about consumer's complaints
either. You should ask if they make complaints public, as well as
asking if they HAVE complaints.

"Alexander Galkin" wrote in
message ...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation,
foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest
of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable
contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions
so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad
experience with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't
want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors
by alphabet.


There is no easy way...but there are some workable
tactics...

try this... you want a general contractor? Call 10 local
*electrical contractors ....and ask them to recommend a
general.. then do the same with a dozen *plumbing contractors,
ask them to recommend a general contractor... one or two names
will float to the surface...those will be the best in the area
for sure.

Other checks can miss the point.

Then shop the job between the top 3 or 4 general
contractors..give them all the same set of plans to bid..and
see what they say or recommend... you will get a feel for who
you wish to deal with.

Be respectful..if you are not, or take these guys for
granted... the good ones will graciously decline your project.
In this area the generals are all booked.... there is a
waiting list.

If you want to really save money on a project... first choose
the contractor.. then tell him you want his help and advice in
how to save money on the job...he will be glad to show you
cheaper ways of doing the job...he makes the same
regardless... and most wont mind if you do a lot of the work
if you are up front about it.

Some will do the job as fill in work, if you have the time,
that can save you 10 or even 20%.


The way not to save money on the job is to chizzle the
contractor...I am a contractor... trust me...we are pro's at
handling chizzlers... we are not about to do a job for less
than cost and a reasonable profit... or we go broke. Not
workable you see.

so the chizzling just runs up our costs, and the customers
costs... ask instead how to cut costs on the job legitimately
through design, equipment, materials or schedule changes etc.

For instance, if a job is a one month job and you insist on
compressing it to a week.. be prepaired to pay double or
triple the money. ... will the contractor tell you that?
No... he doesnt want to loose the job because of some spin
on his remarks.

Be nice to your contractor, try to be an informed customer..
have a clue... dont expect the impossible.....nice customers
are valued and while they will pay for the work for sure..its
the nasty ones that get screwed to the wall or declined
entirely.



Phil Scott

wrote in message
oups.com...
Does your state make complaints public info? If so, any
agency that
deals in the building trades or licensing, or consumer
protection, may
have info you can use to at least avoid the ones they have
complaints
on already.

that just screens out the lowest level of scum bags on the
bottom... not much of an advantage... but better than
nothing... I suggest calling around and asking who is the best
and most reasonable etc.





Also, court records are public but not always convenient
to search if not online. You can find out from your state's
secretary
of state office, usually, what other names or corporation
names a
contractor has gone by, to see if there's a pattern of
dissolving
corporations to get out of paying judgments or debts. Asking
past
customers of a developer is easier because you can go by
property
records and ask customers you choose to ask, not just
hand-selected
"references." With a remodeler, that's not likely to work.
But, if the
records are public, see if the contractor you're considering
has filed
any mechanic's liens, (or if his suppliers have had to), and
then try
to find those homeowenrs and ask them their side of the
story.
Oftentimes they paid the contractor, but the contractor
didn't pay his
supplier. Or, they stopped paying a contractor when he
didn't perform,
and he placed the lien himself, even if not valid. It
happens. Like
the other suggestions said, ask peole who know, like
suppliers,
lawyers, etc, but unfortunately there's no guarantees.

Call 10 local *electrical contractors ....and ask them to
recommend a general.. then do the same with a dozen
*plumbing contractors, ask them to recommend a general
contractor... one or two names will float to the surface...
those will be the best in the area for sure.

This way you will either get list THE MOST expansive GC
(cause they pay the most to subs), or GCs relatives of subs.

1) Ask people who done those projects for references
2) Call county inspectors ( they not always allowed to give
references, so just be smart: ask questions about your
project, inspections and they will give away good GCs / subs
3) Ask phonebook GCs for references, and do call those people.
Mention the names of GCs/subs you selected to the county
inspector(s), see they reaction.
4) Know what you want.
5) Do you really need GCs?????

Maybe look around your neighborhood and find a couple of homes that have
had work done and knock on the door.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
"Alexander Galkin" wrote in message
...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.

The good ones will probably be busy. Ask if you can come and see them at
whatever site they are working on at present.

Check building permits at local building department. Look at residential
projects similar in size and scope as yours. Check by the site and ask the
owners. Going back several few months in permit dates will likely yield
projects that are recently completed.

Try to get by soon enough to get fresh information. After a year, you are
likely to get more generalized opinions and/or minor grievances that are
disproportionally critical.

Jim

"Alexander Galkin" wrote in message
...
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience
with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.

In article , Alexander Galkin
wrote:

€ How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
€ NJ?

Start with the local chapter of the Master Builder's Association, or
the local Remodelor's Council of the National Association of Home
Builders.

Best of luck, and let us know how it comes out!

--
Lyle B. Harwood, President
Phoenix Homes, Inc.
(206) 523-9500 www.phoenixhomesinc.com

- Joseph Meehan -
Maybe look around your neighborhood and find a couple of homes
that have
had work done and knock on the door.

- Nehmo -
Except that homeowners are ill-prepared to evaluate a contractor's work.
If they like a guy they once employed, chances are they liked his or her
method of doing business, personality, image or something. But maybe
that's what homeowners want: a pleasant experience dealing with a
contractor. The actual job and its quality are secondary.

However, speaking with people who had experience with a contractor will
give you better info than you could get from most other sources, such as
ads.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

In many places in the US you will need a permit, and to get a permit,
you will have to show them satisfactory plans. So your first step is to
find someone to design this and draw up the plans; ask him for
recommendations as to a contractor.

Alexander Galkin wrote:
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.




--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.

"Brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
Call 10 local *electrical contractors ....and ask them to
recommend a general.. then do the same with a dozen
*plumbing contractors, ask them to recommend a general
contractor... one or two names will float to the surface...
those will be the best in the area for sure.



This way you will either get list THE MOST expansive GC
(cause they pay the most to subs), or GCs relatives of subs.

You say that because you dont understand the business and
didnt pay attention to my advice to call 20 people in total...
thats a broad enough spread that any special interest will be
eliminated.

how do I know...Ive been in the business 40 years longer many
people have been born and graduated from college... one learns
a thing or two in time.

But yes if you ask just one or two contractors you could
easily get special interest answers or even out right frauds
recommended.

The rest of your advice isnt bad.

Phil Scott





1) Ask people who done those projects for references
2) Call county inspectors ( they not always allowed to give
references, so just be smart: ask questions about your
project, inspections and they will give away good GCs /
subs
3) Ask phonebook GCs for references, and do call those
people.
Mention the names of GCs/subs you selected to the county
inspector(s), see they reaction.
4) Know what you want.
5) Do you really need GCs?????

I will draw the plan and take care of all permits. I have pretty much
experience with applying for permits and inspections. My township local
inspectors know me in person as they visited my house several times each
inspecting previous projects. I need a contractor to perform a very specific
job: excavate soil for addition, build foundation and possible frame floor.
I don't need anything else and I will be doing rest myself. Obviously I do
not need GC.


"William Brown" wrote in message
...
In many places in the US you will need a permit, and to get a permit, you
will have to show them satisfactory plans. So your first step is to find
someone to design this and draw up the plans; ask him for recommendations
as to a contractor.

Alexander Galkin wrote:
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation
and possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the
work I will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in
central NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so
they cannot give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad
experience with contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I
don't want just to open YellowPages and start calling all building
contractors by alphabet.




--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.

"Alexander Galkin" wrote in
message ...
I will draw the plan and take care of all permits. I have
pretty much
experience with applying for permits and inspections. My
township local
inspectors know me in person as they visited my house
several times each
inspecting previous projects. I need a contractor to perform
a very specific
job: excavate soil for addition, build foundation and
possible frame floor.
I don't need anything else and I will be doing rest myself.
Obviously I do
not need GC.


You probably dont need a GC.. in some cases it pays to hire
a local GC to look over your situation and advise only
however... these have experience that you dont and a good one
can be worth his weight in gold for a few hundred dollars his
advice will cost you.

other times it could be a waste of money.

Phil Scott



"William Brown" wrote in message
...
In many places in the US you will need a permit, and to
get a permit, you
will have to show them satisfactory plans. So your first
step is to find
someone to design this and draw up the plans; ask him for
recommendations
as to a contractor.

Alexander Galkin wrote:
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house.
Excavation, foundation
and possible floor framing I want to leave to a
contractor. Rest of the
work I will be doing myself. How do I find a good
reputable contractor in
central NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built
additions so
they cannot give me any referrals. I had previously very
little and bad
experience with contractors. So this time I want to be
very careful. I
don't want just to open YellowPages and start calling all
building
contractors by alphabet.




--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from
apkh.net, if it is
there.

There's a good contractor?


Dimitri

You coulda posta ina alta HVACa , they are bueno at this
especialy seniour

{{{{{{(( --++:!@.. " PJM " ..@!:++-- ))}}}}}}

" THE ASSSSSSSSS from the past "

Better yet, ask for references for work which the contractor hasn't completed
yet or work which hasn't even started yet. Talk to those customers after the
work has been completed. That way, the contractor can't cherrypick by just
give you the names of extremely satisfied customers. For exterior work and
additions, you should be able to stop by once or twice and observe the work in
progress.

I like that advise. Obviously there are bad customers out there, but if you
talk to enough customers with liens, you should be able to detect patterns to
help you determine if the contractor is consistently at fault.


wrote in message
.com...
Does your state make complaints public info? If so, any agency that
deals in the building trades or licensing, or consumer protection, may
have info you can use to at least avoid the ones they have complaints
on already. Also, court records are public but not always convenient
to search if not online. You can find out from your state's secretary
of state office, usually, what other names or corporation names a
contractor has gone by, to see if there's a pattern of dissolving
corporations to get out of paying judgments or debts. Asking past
customers of a developer is easier because you can go by property
records and ask customers you choose to ask, not just hand-selected
"references." With a remodeler, that's not likely to work. But, if the
records are public, see if the contractor you're considering has filed
any mechanic's liens, (or if his suppliers have had to), and then try
to find those homeowenrs and ask them their side of the story.
Oftentimes they paid the contractor, but the contractor didn't pay his
supplier. Or, they stopped paying a contractor when he didn't perform,
and he placed the lien himself, even if not valid. It happens. Like
the other suggestions said, ask peole who know, like suppliers,
lawyers, etc, but unfortunately there's no guarantees.

"Alexander Galkin" wrote in
message ...
I will draw the plan and take care of all permits. I have
pretty much
experience with applying for permits and inspections. My
township local
inspectors know me in person as they visited my house
several times each
inspecting previous projects. I need a contractor to perform
a very specific
job: excavate soil for addition, build foundation and
possible frame floor.
I don't need anything else and I will be doing rest myself.
Obviously I do
not need GC.


You probably dont need a GC.. in some cases it pays to hire
a local GC to look over your situation and advise only
however... these have experience that you dont and a good one
can be worth his weight in gold for a few hundred dollars his
advice will cost you.

other times it could be a waste of money.

You really never know until the work starts if the guy you hire will work out.
The friend I hired turned out to be reckless and perhaps dangerous as well. He
framed an entire 30' wall, including two windows (which he - and I - did
nicely) and was confident that the two of us could lift it into place
ourselves, or perhaps with one or two other guys. We're talking here about a
30'long 2 x 6 x 10 wall. I couldn't even lift a corner off the ground. When I
told him it should be built in two 15' sections he dismissed my request as
illinformed and illogical. When he realized that even he couldn't lift a
corner he told me I needed to call, that very minute, about 2 guys over. He
said all I needed to do was make them lunch. I was convinced that he was out
of his mind, and was creating a dangerous situation for me and any hapless soul
he wanted to bring over to help.

I convinced him, by being firm, that the wall needed to be slit into two
sections. He was in agreement, but blew up soon after. He couldn't stand me
telling him anything.

After letting him go, I bought some pulleys, rope, and made a lifting machine.
I fixed the first wall, and framed and pulled up the next three all by myself.
It was the greatest experience I've had so far. The walls are straight, tight,
and square, and I feel safer.

I'm just an owner builder. I want to build the whole thing myself, for kicks.
I don't need to be terrorised by people who resent me knowing a little more
about (some of) their craft than they do. This guy had some bad habits and
questionable judgement. I cut him loose at the right time, for sure.

DF


"William Brown" wrote in message
...
In many places in the US you will need a permit, and to
get a permit, you
will have to show them satisfactory plans. So your first
step is to find
someone to design this and draw up the plans; ask him for
recommendations
as to a contractor.

Alexander Galkin wrote:
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house.
Excavation, foundation
and possible floor framing I want to leave to a
contractor. Rest of the
work I will be doing myself. How do I find a good
reputable contractor in
central NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built
additions so
they cannot give me any referrals. I had previously very
little and bad
experience with contractors. So this time I want to be
very careful. I
don't want just to open YellowPages and start calling all
building
contractors by alphabet.




--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from
apkh.net, if it is
there.

D. Gerasimatos wrote:

There's a good contractor?

Yes, in Greek mythology.


Matt

To find a good contractor you should talk to past customers and I mean
a few years after the job was completed. Also don't go to a contractor
who builds new houses if you just want a small addition 'cause they
may tend to push your job to the background while they go after the big
ones.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:03:46 -0500, "Alexander Galkin"
wrote:

I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ?

Ask around the neighborhood. Word of mouth is the best referral you
can get. One caveat though. Look at the work the GC did. Your
standards may be different than your neighbors'.


------------------------------------------=o&o----
Steve Manes, Brooklyn, USA
www.magpie.com

Steve Manes wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:03:46 -0500, "Alexander Galkin"
wrote:


I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ?


Ask around the neighborhood. Word of mouth is the best referral you
can get. One caveat though. Look at the work the GC did. Your
standards may be different than your neighbors'.

I also do a reverse search on candidate contractors' phone numbers. If
you have to sue the guy, you need to have an address.

"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Better yet, ask for references for work which the contractor
hasn't completed
yet or work which hasn't even started yet. Talk to those
customers after the
work has been completed. That way, the contractor can't
cherrypick by just
give you the names of extremely satisfied customers. For
exterior work and
additions, you should be able to stop by once or twice and
observe the work in
progress.


References of course are a good thing..however Ive seen in
this area a very high percentage of utterly ill informed and
often nasty customers what whine to me about what a loser his
last contractor was....and since I know most of these guys I
can say in many cases the complaints are bogus. No job is
perfect.



Many good contractors are trashed to the max on almost totally
irrelevant or unavoidable minor issues.

So when getting refferences Id also ask if the person could
detail any problems..... if they start off with '''ya ... and
their men parked RIGHT IN MY DRIVWAY to unload the material...
etc."

You have your first clue... that customer was nutz. I tell Id
be glad to do thier work but am booked up until 2008,



there is no shortage of those in some areas.
and they do it to chizzle the bills also.

Many customers in this area seem to think they have hired you
8 am to 5 pm daily until the job is finished.. they have no
clue that the work is simple contracted to meet a completion
schedule even after you point that out ,,,

Some will say... 'ya and he showed up at 10 am some days and
was gone by 2 ... some days he didnt show up at all...'...
so it pays to ask for the details.

also ask about the price too... many customers will shop a
$30,000 job until they find someone that will do it for 15,000
dollars on a part time as available schedule... or beat the
price down to 10,000 then complain when they didnt get the
materials specified in the higher priced contracts.

A very good percentage of the general public has no clue...
and many are abusive or terminally impatient and unrealistic a
about construction logistics and mess etc.

Ive had some demand a thousand dollars worth of dust
prevention, fans, sealed doors, floors and walls etc... be
placed in order to shield a 20 second saw cut in dry wall on a
job quoted at $200.

Myself I interview the customer before the job starts we chat
about thier experience with other tradesman, and if they whine
a lot I decline to quote them. Others fool me... I quote
them.. then if they can find a fingerprint on the wall
somewhere they want to deduct 600 dollars from a 1200 bill to
cover repainting the entire room.or they will 'sue'...or call
the mafia..

Im sure there are bad contractors around, Ive ruin into more
than a few. Most are fair to OK though and the abuse they get
from customers is not warranted.

I asked one ****ing and moaning home owner why they called me
if their last contractor was so good...

The customer said.... ' he way too high, he rip us off'...'you
recommended by my friend, he say you the best one in whole
area'.

Then after the work starts he complains about me...

the complaint with me exact quote "You soww up 9 okwok!!!
You NOT sow up at 8 okwok..I pay I pay I pay... you not sow
up.. den you LEEEBE at 2 okwok.. .. I no pay .... I no pay...
you charge me $1.98 for calking...I buy $1.92...1.92 .
1.92.... YOU *CHEAT ME.. 6 cent... 6 cent....you not
finish... you not finish...I call police, I call police.."

So much for being the best in the whole area I guess.

My last commercial restaurant customer was whining about 15
minutes travel time even though I gave him the drive back in
traffic (45 minutes free)... I handed him a 50 dollar bill ..
he was still whining ...it was an integrity thing he said..

He didnt want to pay for all of my work time since I had to
park so far away from his store in downtown San Francisco...
(no parking during rush hour).., alley parking they tow first,
then ticket,,, cost 300 dollars or more.... he felt that ran
up the bill... he wanted me to deduct some of the time to get
the bill down to what thinks is fair. and was a well meaning
guy too... he was sincere in his remarks

he sells 8 dollar sandwiches... two slices of bread, some
sprouts and a turkey slice. Not bad. A good sandwich.


No reference from those guys though....damn.


I do industrial controls mostly now I tell the other
customers that I do the best I can, and thats usually very
good but seldom perfect in every detail as that costs more
than a job warrants in many cases.. and that they are to watch
me closely, and the first instant that they see the work is
not going according to their expectations they are to fire me
and I will leave and collect my hourly rate and materials to
date.

That tactic has stopped most of the complaining..



Phil Scott
www.philscott.net

Precious! A delightful read!

You should print up some cards, Phil, with this response on the back.

And, I should plagiarize it, giving you author-credit of course.

Jim


"Phil Scott" wrote in message
.. .

"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Better yet, ask for references for work which the contractor
hasn't completed
yet or work which hasn't even started yet. Talk to those
customers after the
work has been completed. That way, the contractor can't
cherrypick by just
give you the names of extremely satisfied customers. For
exterior work and
additions, you should be able to stop by once or twice and
observe the work in
progress.


References of course are a good thing..however Ive seen in
this area a very high percentage of utterly ill informed and
often nasty customers what whine to me about what a loser his
last contractor was....and since I know most of these guys I
can say in many cases the complaints are bogus. No job is
perfect.



Many good contractors are trashed to the max on almost totally
irrelevant or unavoidable minor issues.

So when getting refferences Id also ask if the person could
detail any problems..... if they start off with '''ya ... and
their men parked RIGHT IN MY DRIVWAY to unload the material...
etc."

You have your first clue... that customer was nutz. I tell Id
be glad to do thier work but am booked up until 2008,



there is no shortage of those in some areas.
and they do it to chizzle the bills also.

Many customers in this area seem to think they have hired you
8 am to 5 pm daily until the job is finished.. they have no
clue that the work is simple contracted to meet a completion
schedule even after you point that out ,,,

Some will say... 'ya and he showed up at 10 am some days and
was gone by 2 ... some days he didnt show up at all...'...
so it pays to ask for the details.

also ask about the price too... many customers will shop a
$30,000 job until they find someone that will do it for 15,000
dollars on a part time as available schedule... or beat the
price down to 10,000 then complain when they didnt get the
materials specified in the higher priced contracts.

A very good percentage of the general public has no clue...
and many are abusive or terminally impatient and unrealistic a
about construction logistics and mess etc.

Ive had some demand a thousand dollars worth of dust
prevention, fans, sealed doors, floors and walls etc... be
placed in order to shield a 20 second saw cut in dry wall on a
job quoted at $200.

Myself I interview the customer before the job starts we chat
about thier experience with other tradesman, and if they whine
a lot I decline to quote them. Others fool me... I quote
them.. then if they can find a fingerprint on the wall
somewhere they want to deduct 600 dollars from a 1200 bill to
cover repainting the entire room.or they will 'sue'...or call
the mafia..

Im sure there are bad contractors around, Ive ruin into more
than a few. Most are fair to OK though and the abuse they get
from customers is not warranted.

I asked one ****ing and moaning home owner why they called me
if their last contractor was so good...

The customer said.... ' he way too high, he rip us off'...'you
recommended by my friend, he say you the best one in whole
area'.

Then after the work starts he complains about me...

the complaint with me exact quote "You soww up 9 okwok!!!
You NOT sow up at 8 okwok..I pay I pay I pay... you not sow
up.. den you LEEEBE at 2 okwok.. .. I no pay .... I no pay...
you charge me $1.98 for calking...I buy $1.92...1.92 .
1.92.... YOU *CHEAT ME.. 6 cent... 6 cent....you not
finish... you not finish...I call police, I call police.."

So much for being the best in the whole area I guess.

My last commercial restaurant customer was whining about 15
minutes travel time even though I gave him the drive back in
traffic (45 minutes free)... I handed him a 50 dollar bill ..
he was still whining ...it was an integrity thing he said..

He didnt want to pay for all of my work time since I had to
park so far away from his store in downtown San Francisco...
(no parking during rush hour).., alley parking they tow first,
then ticket,,, cost 300 dollars or more.... he felt that ran
up the bill... he wanted me to deduct some of the time to get
the bill down to what thinks is fair. and was a well meaning
guy too... he was sincere in his remarks

he sells 8 dollar sandwiches... two slices of bread, some
sprouts and a turkey slice. Not bad. A good sandwich.


No reference from those guys though....damn.


I do industrial controls mostly now I tell the other
customers that I do the best I can, and thats usually very
good but seldom perfect in every detail as that costs more
than a job warrants in many cases.. and that they are to watch
me closely, and the first instant that they see the work is
not going according to their expectations they are to fire me
and I will leave and collect my hourly rate and materials to
date.

That tactic has stopped most of the complaining..



Phil Scott
www.philscott.net

"JsWLazenby" wrote in message
news:xXpQd.18890$uc.18637@trnddc05...
Precious! A delightful read!

You should print up some cards, Phil, with this response on
the back.

Ive been tempted.. but I find most people dont read or
listen to your rationale anyway... they buy on schmooze, hot
air and bull****..and what can be made to look at least like a
low price....or some kind of world class one of a kind job
complete with invented slang terms so they cannot price
shop....'we are the ONLY ones selling this new 'turbonated'
heat pump.. its very advanced, the ordinary contractors have
no clue about it.... thats common too.,, and of course the
'turbinated' heat pump doesnt exist...its a pure conn job.





And, I should plagiarize it, giving you author-credit of
course.

plagiarize away...I dont need any credit either..Ive seen
better ways of handling the public from others... the best
ones always boil down to being totally and bluntly frank about
how it is in river city with no guilding on it at all... then
quoting high enough to make the pain in the ass worth the
trouble.

Optionally its a total schmooze job..but thats not my style.
One has to do what comes natural good techs dont schmooze
well... good schmoozers are usually short on tech skills.


I also tell em " I have 3 prices... absolute perfection...
perfect work and no mess ...and fast... thats about $5,000
for this job.

Slap dash, if thats what you can afford.. quick and dirty but
what some people can live with is $1,500 dollars..but I don't
work like that..

.. my quote for the work to the standard of the rest of your
property, done in a reasonable time, with the normal mess and
noise......quality work but not perfect work ....$2,500.

that blows off the chizzlers as it defeats their later claim
that the work you did was sub standard.. it educates the
decent people to the actual scene. Those will generally pick
the mid range option...some will ask who to call for a hash
job...and thats fair... I tell them who to call. Sometimes a
hash job is all the person wants.



On industrial work I give em a long menu of features to select
from.... with prices... thats undefeatable..if they check it
off.. it costs them... if the total is too high compared to
the competition I tell em to compare lists and decide what
features they don't want...when they change thier mind later,
its all on the menu with prices attached. I can bill for the
design and engineering separately, driving the line item
numbers down.


sometimes I list out the material costs on some items..
lacking that many folks seem to think all the money from a
line item goes to buy me fun times at the moonlight ranch.
that keeps em from demanding a 20,000 dollar kick back on
30,000 dollar job...

I tell some that that they can go down to skid row early
enough, before the guys get drunk again for the day and hire
carpenters, electricians, controls engineers, CEO's and brain
surgeons for 6 dollars... Ive had a few actually ask for a
map and some names.



Phil Scott




Jim


"Phil Scott" wrote in
message
.. .

"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Better yet, ask for references for work which the
contractor
hasn't completed
yet or work which hasn't even started yet. Talk to
those
customers after the
work has been completed. That way, the contractor can't
cherrypick by just
give you the names of extremely satisfied customers.
For
exterior work and
additions, you should be able to stop by once or twice
and
observe the work in
progress.


References of course are a good thing..however Ive seen in
this area a very high percentage of utterly ill informed
and
often nasty customers what whine to me about what a loser
his
last contractor was....and since I know most of these guys
I
can say in many cases the complaints are bogus. No job
is
perfect.



Many good contractors are trashed to the max on almost
totally
irrelevant or unavoidable minor issues.

So when getting refferences Id also ask if the person
could
detail any problems..... if they start off with '''ya ...
and
their men parked RIGHT IN MY DRIVWAY to unload the
material...
etc."

You have your first clue... that customer was nutz. I
tell Id
be glad to do thier work but am booked up until 2008,



there is no shortage of those in some areas.
and they do it to chizzle the bills also.

Many customers in this area seem to think they have hired
you
8 am to 5 pm daily until the job is finished.. they have
no
clue that the work is simple contracted to meet a
completion
schedule even after you point that out ,,,

Some will say... 'ya and he showed up at 10 am some days
and
was gone by 2 ... some days he didnt show up at all...'...
so it pays to ask for the details.

also ask about the price too... many customers will shop a
$30,000 job until they find someone that will do it for
15,000
dollars on a part time as available schedule... or beat
the
price down to 10,000 then complain when they didnt get the
materials specified in the higher priced contracts.

A very good percentage of the general public has no
clue...
and many are abusive or terminally impatient and
unrealistic a
about construction logistics and mess etc.

Ive had some demand a thousand dollars worth of dust
prevention, fans, sealed doors, floors and walls etc... be
placed in order to shield a 20 second saw cut in dry wall
on a
job quoted at $200.

Myself I interview the customer before the job starts we
chat
about thier experience with other tradesman, and if they
whine
a lot I decline to quote them. Others fool me... I
quote
them.. then if they can find a fingerprint on the wall
somewhere they want to deduct 600 dollars from a 1200 bill
to
cover repainting the entire room.or they will 'sue'...or
call
the mafia..

Im sure there are bad contractors around, Ive ruin into
more
than a few. Most are fair to OK though and the abuse they
get
from customers is not warranted.

I asked one ****ing and moaning home owner why they called
me
if their last contractor was so good...

The customer said.... ' he way too high, he rip us
off'...'you
recommended by my friend, he say you the best one in whole
area'.

Then after the work starts he complains about me...

the complaint with me exact quote "You soww up 9
okwok!!!
You NOT sow up at 8 okwok..I pay I pay I pay... you not
sow
up.. den you LEEEBE at 2 okwok.. .. I no pay .... I no
pay...
you charge me $1.98 for calking...I buy $1.92...1.92 .
1.92.... YOU *CHEAT ME.. 6 cent... 6 cent....you not
finish... you not finish...I call police, I call police.."

So much for being the best in the whole area I guess.

My last commercial restaurant customer was whining about
15
minutes travel time even though I gave him the drive back
in
traffic (45 minutes free)... I handed him a 50 dollar bill
...
he was still whining ...it was an integrity thing he
said..

He didnt want to pay for all of my work time since I had
to
park so far away from his store in downtown San
Francisco...
(no parking during rush hour).., alley parking they tow
first,
then ticket,,, cost 300 dollars or more.... he felt that
ran
up the bill... he wanted me to deduct some of the time to
get
the bill down to what thinks is fair. and was a well
meaning
guy too... he was sincere in his remarks

he sells 8 dollar sandwiches... two slices of bread, some
sprouts and a turkey slice. Not bad. A good sandwich.


No reference from those guys though....damn.


I do industrial controls mostly now I tell the
other
customers that I do the best I can, and thats usually
very
good but seldom perfect in every detail as that costs more
than a job warrants in many cases.. and that they are to
watch
me closely, and the first instant that they see the work
is
not going according to their expectations they are to fire
me
and I will leave and collect my hourly rate and materials
to
date.

That tactic has stopped most of the complaining..



Phil Scott
www.philscott.net

Alexander Galkin wrote:
I will draw the plan and take care of all permits. I have pretty much
experience with applying for permits and inspections. My township
local inspectors know me in person as they visited my house several
times each inspecting previous projects. I need a contractor to
perform a very specific job: excavate soil for addition, build
foundation and possible frame floor. I don't need anything else and I
will be doing rest myself. Obviously I do not need GC.


You probably will need an engineer's stamp on the plans - ask your engineer
who he/she thinks is a good contractor for the type of work you need. He may
not be able to tell you who is the least expensive, or who completes the job
in the least time, but he's been on lots of site inspections and knows who
follows the plans, whose workmanship is good.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Alexander Galkin wrote:
I will draw the plan and take care of all permits. I have
pretty much
experience with applying for permits and inspections. My
township
local inspectors know me in person as they visited my
house several
times each inspecting previous projects. I need a
contractor to
perform a very specific job: excavate soil for addition,
build
foundation and possible frame floor. I don't need anything
else and I
will be doing rest myself. Obviously I do not need GC.


You probably will need an engineer's stamp on the plans -
ask your engineer
who he/she thinks is a good contractor for the type of work
you need. He may
not be able to tell you who is the least expensive, or who
completes the job
in the least time, but he's been on lots of site inspections
and knows who
follows the plans, whose workmanship is good.


If its NOT a public building, but just your home, or even in
many cases, calif for example, a factory you will not need an
engineers stamp for most of that or any of it some
cases...depends on the impact issues and local codes, if its a
public use building or not....thats if you are an owner
builder.

the rules can change if you are a contractor..but not always..
its a regional issue.

In your case you can most likely draw up your own plans, take
it to the city and they will probably approve them..especially
if they are obviously competent...if they look flakey, then
the city will insist on a competent set of plans.




Phil Scott

Alexander Galkin wrote:
I want to build a kitchen addition to my house. Excavation, foundation and
possible floor framing I want to leave to a contractor. Rest of the work I
will be doing myself. How do I find a good reputable contractor in central
NJ? I asked several friends of mine, no one built additions so they cannot
give me any referrals. I had previously very little and bad experience with
contractors. So this time I want to be very careful. I don't want just to
open YellowPages and start calling all building contractors by alphabet.




I would start by studying up on all the work to be done, including
soil/drainage/settling issues. Heat/AC limits or needs. Construction
materials and methods. You can't negotiate a project like yours without
knowing your options and areas for concern. Look at some new houses for
ideas. Check around the neighborhood for a house that has had an
addition and knock on the door ) Then, go to your state, city or
county website and find three contractors who have held licenses for at
least 10 years. Check for complaints or discipline against their
licenses, and start getting bids. Bid should include license and
insurance info, material type and brand, completion time, payment
intervals, lien release info, etc.

Our city has construction standards, with detailed drawings, for all
kinds of projects. This is their standard for city work, done by city
engineers and available on the internet. Good resource, IMO.

Make sure you have a FULL set of plans, mechanical, electrical and plumbing.
Make the subs bid off the plans then if they choose, give an alternate very
detailed bid. It is the only way you can compare apples to apples. A good
web site is www.HVAC-consult.com

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Alexander Galkin wrote:
I will draw the plan and take care of all permits. I have pretty much
experience with applying for permits and inspections. My township
local inspectors know me in person as they visited my house several
times each inspecting previous projects. I need a contractor to
perform a very specific job: excavate soil for addition, build
foundation and possible frame floor. I don't need anything else and I
will be doing rest myself. Obviously I do not need GC.


You probably will need an engineer's stamp on the plans - ask your
engineer
who he/she thinks is a good contractor for the type of work you need. He
may
not be able to tell you who is the least expensive, or who completes the
job
in the least time, but he's been on lots of site inspections and knows who
follows the plans, whose workmanship is good.