On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 06:10:35 GMT, Brian Henderson
wrote:

On 16 Nov 2006 12:52:55 -0800, "bf" wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

For which they should be busted because they are breaking the law.
They are not breaking the law by paying minimum wage to people with no
skills.

All right guys- I'm no fan of WalMart, but they're *not* paying
minimum wage. Around here, the stockers get something on the order of
$9 an hour. While that's still crappy pay, it's close to double the
minimum wage, and higher than unskilled factory work in the area.

Of course the job sucks- just like any other job that requires nothing
more than a pulse.

State Governments have to pay a lot of money in health care benefits to
those walmart workers that don't have insurance.. that's your and my
money.

That's not their problem. Maybe if these people had an education and
were more responsible, they'd have better jobs. It's not Walmart's
fault that people are stupid.

You've got a real point there. I've met dozens of people over the
years who I've seen fired from real jobs because they were not only
unable to do the job, but also unwilling to show up every day and at
least make an attempt to learn. Almost invariably, I end up seeing
those folks later on- stacking boxes at the WalMart when I need to get
something late at night and everything else is closed. Better that
they have that to occupy their time, instead of being out robbing
liquor stores.

And being skilled labor doesn't guarantee health care, either. Most
job shops with less than fifteen employees (and some larger ones as
well) don't offer it either. If the government would stop giving
people free health coverage because they're lazy, we might see the
premiums go down a bit. I have seen, time after time, with no
hyperbole- that the laziest and least useful people (usually the ones
with government sponsored health care) are the first to run to the
doctor for even the most minor of injuries or percieved ailments. The
doctors' billing desks know that they can get cash out of Medicare and
it's analogs, and they charge accordingly- it runs up the cost for
everyone.

Now, that's not to say that everyone that works in a WalMart is an
ignorant and/or useless person- of course some of them are not.
That's true anywhere. What I'm saying is that they are providing a
whole lot of people who cannot or will not do even the most modest
things to better themselves with an income.

RicodJour wrote:
RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mployment.html

From your link:
" Though most of the illegal workers were employed by third-party
contractors"

Hardly backs up the statement that Wal Mart has been busted.

On Nov 17, 8:21 am, "RayV" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ransform/emplo...

From your link:" Though most of the illegal workers were employed by third-party
contractors"

Hardly backs up the statement that Wal Mart has been busted.

You seem to have missed a good bit of this thread. Go back and read
the parts you missed. This was already covered.

R

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:20:30 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

On Nov 16, 8:43 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote:
On Nov 16, 6:57 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:

So show us the "numerous times".

Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you.
http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm
A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to
pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the
responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the
government.

It's the same bust--you still haven't demonstrated "numerous times". One
bust is not "numerous times".

From that link I posted - you may have missed this part: "The
investigation evolved out of two prior immigration operations that
began in 1998 and 2001, respectively. These operations targeted
cleaning contractors that were hiring unauthorized workers from Eastern
Europe.
The follow-up investigation culminated on October 23, 2003, with a
series of immigration enforcement actions at some 60 Wal-Mart stores in
21 states. In these actions, ICE agents arrested approximately 245
illegal aliens employed by cleaning contractors and put these
individuals into deportation proceedings."

It was a sting operation where the feds descended on numerous stores..
There were numerous busts. I also am not sure how much more severe of
a situation it would need to be to satisfy you that it was egregious.
There were a dozen companies and the single largest fine in US history
for hiring illegal immigrants. If it were an isolated incident, and
not a pattern of abuse, there wouldn't have been such a large fine.

I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors
that hired the illegal immigrants. Then I reply that obviously Walmart
was aware of it, that it was a pattern of abuse that Walmart took
advantage of to line their coffers, and why they ended up paying a fine
almost three times as much as the 12 subcontractors' fines combined.
Then you call my heritage into question, I pop you one, we scuffle for
a while, then get winded pretty quickly being old farts, and we retire
to a local tavern for some libations and to trade war stories. It's a
formula, but it works.

Fine, you want to call the results a single government operation that led
to a single trial against Wal-Mart "numerous busts" you go right ahead.




--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

You're working in the wrong area. They all do here. I once worked in a place
where I was the Boss's one employee. Paid full benefits.
"Prometheus" wrote in message
...

And being skilled labor doesn't guarantee health care, either. Most
job shops with less than fifteen employees (and some larger ones as
well) don't offer it either.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:32:16 -0500, Joe Bemier
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:21 GMT, wrote:



I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete
I feel that's a poor way of looking at things, Pete. Go out and find
the worst presentation of things so you can feel better about your own
shortcomings? I'd hate to think what will happen if you are exposed to
a prison.

I have to laugh. This thread has taken on a whole new dimension. I
was merely making an observation about something I saw at a time when
I was thinking about my own work. Perhaps I should have said 'go
wandering though furniture stores'.

When I can see all the goofs in my work that I don't charge money for
(the work not the goofs) and then see the crap being sold for money, I
begin to rethink how I see my work. This is not an excuse to stagnate
nor feel that my mistakes are OK but a wake up to stop being so hard
on myself. My work will always improve and I try to avoid making the
same mistakes twice, but only when I remember what the original
problem was. I only need to put out good work not perfection.

As for my shortcomings, I have plenty just like you and everone else.
I don't need you or anyone else to point them out to me because that's
my job and I can do that much better than you. And what the hell does
any of this have to do with prison?

These days I rarely go through life thinking I can do things as good
or better as another man's work. This particular chest was an
exception.

Pete

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Locutus" wrote in message

Those jobs are replaced by other, higher paying jobs. Such as transport,
importation, sales, and distribution. Also, the products are cheaper,
allowing your US dollar to buy more than it otherwise could.

Considering the amount of jobs that are being contracted at cheaper rates
overseas, it's obvious you have absolutely no idea what you're talking
about.


Amazing that more people are employeed now than ever before, since you think
there are now fewer jobs to be had.

I didn't say there were not jobs being contracted out overseas, what I said
is that contracting work out overseas creates jobs here. How? The product
price becomes lower, more units can be sold, more people are need to sell
those units, transport those units, distribute those units and import those
units. Because of lower production costs, many products are a reality that
would have never seen the market if they had to be made here, as the
production costs wouldn't support the price point of the product.

I own and operate company that has many of it's products made overseas. And
you think I don't have any idea what I am talking about? What do you do for
a living?

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
You're working in the wrong area. They all do here. I once worked in a
place
where I was the Boss's one employee. Paid full benefits.


They all do there? Not likely. Your personal example doesn't necessarily
reflect upon every employer.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...

What does competing with Walmart have to do with Walmart hiring illegal
immigrants, locking employees in stores, not paying overtime, sexual
discrimination, etc.? Which of your relatives would you want some of
those things to happen to? Are you saying that those shady practices
are what gives Walmart the edge? Give me an edge and you can go screw
yourself? Is that how you believe capitalism is supposed to work?


Where did I ever say that kind of behavior is OK? I never defended those
practices, those practices are illegal, and if they are legitimately
happening, then they should be prosecuted for it.

This conversation started out by people saying that Wal-mart is "screwing"
their employees with no benefits and low wage. This is what I have a problem
with.

BTW, we're not in a capitalist society. Them there are buzz words that
people like to hang on to. Our economy has capitalistic tendencies.
We're actually in a mixed economy where the government regulates a
large portion of it. It is not a free market and it is not a
capitalist economy. Turn of the 20th century America was far closer to
a capitalist economy. That was the era of robber barons, market
manipulation and monopolistic trusts. As, those were the days, eh?

R


Semantics.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 16, 8:43 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote:
On Nov 16, 6:57 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:

So show us the "numerous times".

Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you.
http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm
A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to
pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the
responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the
government.

It's the same bust--you still haven't demonstrated "numerous times". One
bust is not "numerous times".

From that link I posted - you may have missed this part: "The
investigation evolved out of two prior immigration operations that
began in 1998 and 2001, respectively. These operations targeted
cleaning contractors that were hiring unauthorized workers from Eastern
Europe.
The follow-up investigation culminated on October 23, 2003, with a
series of immigration enforcement actions at some 60 Wal-Mart stores in
21 states. In these actions, ICE agents arrested approximately 245
illegal aliens employed by cleaning contractors and put these
individuals into deportation proceedings."

It was a sting operation where the feds descended on numerous stores..
There were numerous busts. I also am not sure how much more severe of
a situation it would need to be to satisfy you that it was egregious.
There were a dozen companies and the single largest fine in US history
for hiring illegal immigrants. If it were an isolated incident, and
not a pattern of abuse, there wouldn't have been such a large fine.

I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors
that hired the illegal immigrants.

I have a cleaning company that cleans my business. I have no idea if they
are illegal or not.

In my line of work, that is the case (and that of Prometheus, who I was
addressing). It is not the low skilled, low pay crap you are talking about.

"Locutus" wrote in message
...

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
You're working in the wrong area. They all do here. I once worked in a
place
where I was the Boss's one employee. Paid full benefits.


They all do there? Not likely. Your personal example doesn't necessarily
reflect upon every employer.

On Nov 17, 9:00 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:20:30 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors
that hired the illegal immigrants. Then I reply that obviously Walmart
was aware of it, that it was a pattern of abuse that Walmart took
advantage of to line their coffers, and why they ended up paying a fine
almost three times as much as the 12 subcontractors' fines combined.
Then you call my heritage into question, I pop you one, we scuffle for
a while, then get winded pretty quickly being old farts, and we retire
to a local tavern for some libations and to trade war stories. It's a
formula, but it works.

Fine, you want to call the results a single government operation that led
to a single trial against Wal-Mart "numerous busts" you go right ahead.

61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?

I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you
prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store
at a time? That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page
from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the
economies of scale.

R

I find that I am my own worst critic.
I see plenty of stuff and wonder how the he** can they sell that for some
gosh awful price tag. I see that stuff and agree with the wifey ... mine is
much higher quality and I usually just give the stuff away.
I'm in for the hobby not the dollars. The satisfactions are in the completed
process and watching the smile come on a face.
Thom

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:09:21 GMT, wrote:



I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

If you want a real ego boost, go to a Pier One store- all the defects
you've described, with a much higher price tag!

On Nov 17, 12:15 pm, "Thom" wrote:
I find that I am my own worst critic.

I think that is as it should be. I only compare my work to superior
work - work that impresses me. There's enough satisfaction in doing
the work itself that I don't need validation comparing my work to
inferior work. Don't get me wrong - I have no problem bitching about
inferior work and inflated price tags on inferior work.

R

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:00:29 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

On Nov 17, 9:00 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:20:30 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors
that hired the illegal immigrants. Then I reply that obviously Walmart
was aware of it, that it was a pattern of abuse that Walmart took
advantage of to line their coffers, and why they ended up paying a fine
almost three times as much as the 12 subcontractors' fines combined.
Then you call my heritage into question, I pop you one, we scuffle for
a while, then get winded pretty quickly being old farts, and we retire
to a local tavern for some libations and to trade war stories. It's a
formula, but it works.

Fine, you want to call the results a single government operation that led
to a single trial against Wal-Mart "numerous busts" you go right ahead.

61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?

Single bust, multiple locations.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you
prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store
at a time?

That would be repeated busts.

That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page
from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the economies
of scale.

Yes, they are, hence the single bust that you keep claiming was not a
single bust.




--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I never rant but there is always the exception.

I love Walmart when I need to by cheap ****. They have the best. I
think there is a union crowd that hates Walmart and they are aligned
with the same crowd that thinks a minimum wage job should pay enough to
raise a family. Walmart has cheap jobs for unskilled people. Whats so
bad about that. I agree we need a minimum wage but some concept that
says every job should provide full benefits and enough money to live on
is just socialism and we decided not to go that route a few hundered
years ago. Get used to it.


Locutus wrote:
"bf" wrote in message
ups.com...

RayV wrote:

I'm no fan of Wal Mart but would like to know how "Walmart screws their
employees out of benefits."

It's my understanding that the benefits are so expensive that the low
wage workers can't afford them (only management can).. So the
cashier/stockers can't afford benefits.
Whether that's screwing them or not is a matter of perspective, I
guess.
I boycott Walmart (for various reasons), but I don't want to get in an
argument about them here... I know there's people here that buy
everything there.


No body makes them work there. They are not "screwing" their employees out
of anything.
-rant on-
Cheap jobs for unskilled people is one thing. Abusing them is another.
If they fraternize, the get fired. They now have a demerit system,
where they get demerits if they are more then 10 min late, or, God
forbid, they leave to tend to a sick child. Awhile back they were
offering life insurance to the employees, they (Wal-Mart) even the
premium. Of course, they (Wal Mart) were the beneficiary. What about
the recent lawsuit regarding hours? My wife used to work for the Red
Cross. When Wal Mart made their yearly "donations" it was a pile of
broken crap in truck, then they would state the retail value product as
their donation. Meanwhile, the local hardware store give something
nice. There is just no excuse for that.

They have 1.2 million employees. They have a responsibility, if not to
pay them well, to treat them like human beings. I just know I don't
need to save a buck so badly as to support a place that treats people
badly enough that I wouldn't advise my kids to work there.

..I realize we can find faults with any place, but they are the biggest
and the worst. Anyway the shopping experience sucks, I did go in once.

-rant off-



-Jim

J. Clarke wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum
wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mployment.html

That's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"
were in the employ of third-party contractors.

So show us the "numerous times".

Some of Walmart's practices are just plain sketchy. It's not good
business, and it's certainly not what people would consider "the
American Way".

From one article:
"One of the class representatives in the New York lawsuit, Maria Gamble
of Suffolk County, New York, claims that while she worked at Wal-Mart
as a customer service manager, Wal-Mart supervisors locked her in the
store with her co-employees after the store closed when all employees
were "off-the-clock." Ms. Gamble described her experiences at Wal-Mart:

Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section 135.05 of the
Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the class of
occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of the NYC
Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was prevented
that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment in the First
Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the manager in the slammer
for four years.

Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the cops
and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and explain the
problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the door down.


Oh yeah, sure you would. Now, put your self in the place of the
"uneducated, unskilled" employee that Walmart preys on. No place else
to work, you're not calling the cops or pulling any fire alarms. It's
best not to try and put your self into the mindset of the people that
Walmart hires.

-Jim

jtpr wrote:


Oh yeah, sure you would. Now, put your self in the place of the
"uneducated, unskilled" employee that Walmart preys on. No place else
to work, you're not calling the cops or pulling any fire alarms. It's
best not to try and put your self into the mindset of the people that
Walmart hires.


I used to be one of the uneducated, unskilled and joined the military.
Got out with better skills and some college.
Got a good paying job with no benefits.
Quit that job for one that paid less but had benefits
Got more education
Worked hard
Got more money

Fairly simple to improve your situation, quit whining and do it.

wrote in message ...
These days I rarely go through life thinking I can do things as good
or better as another man's work. This particular chest was an
exception.

SWMBO used to remind me as we paid for good lumber and fittings that almost
anything I made was going to be better than store-bought. True way back,
and hasn't changed.

OTOH, all the Wally World bashers need to stop and think. Who shops at the
store? Poor people? Aren't we all about helping the poor? Why force them
to shop elsewhere or do without.

"Locutus" wrote in message
...
I have a cleaning company that cleans my business. I have no idea if they
are illegal or not.


Taking bets?

Like everything else, it seems the person with the deepest pockets is held
responsible. Get on in there in the evening and check those green cards, or
someone with a grudge will.

On Nov 17, 1:00 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:00:29 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?

Single bust, multiple locations.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you
prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store
at a time?

That would be repeated busts.

That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page
from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the economies
of scale.

Yes, they are, hence the single bust that you keep claiming was not a
single bust.

Bust - Slang.
a. an arrest.
b. a police raid.

Notice that the articles 'an' and 'a' - those are singular in nature.
There were multiple raids, at multiple locations, and multiple people
were arrested.

BF, the poster who used the word numerous, wrote: Walmart has also
been busted numerous times for paying below minimum wage to illegal
aliens."
245 illegal aliens were arrested and deported from those raids - that's
numerous...at least in most people's definitions of the word.
Numerous - adj : amounting to a large indefinite number; "numerous
times"; "the family was numerous"

I'm kind of surprised that you've gotten so hung up on a word. I would
think that you would have more to offer than simply asking for
citations, references and definitions. Information on Walmart's
practices is readily available on the net if you care to look. Of
course if your mind is already made up, that's unnecessary. Facts
might muddy the waters of your clear thinking.

R

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:59:22 -0800, jtpr wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
RayV wrote:
bf wrote:

Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below
minimum wage to illegal aliens.

Have a source for that statement?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mployment.html

That's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal
aliens" were in the employ of third-party contractors.

So show us the "numerous times".

Some of Walmart's practices are just plain sketchy. It's not good
business, and it's certainly not what people would consider "the
American Way".

From one article:
"One of the class representatives in the New York lawsuit, Maria
Gamble of Suffolk County, New York, claims that while she worked at
Wal-Mart as a customer service manager, Wal-Mart supervisors locked
her in the store with her co-employees after the store closed when
all employees were "off-the-clock." Ms. Gamble described her
experiences at Wal-Mart:

Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section 135.05 of
the Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the
class of occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of
the NYC Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was
prevented that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment
in the First Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the
manager in the slammer for four years.

Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the
cops and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and
explain the problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the
door down.


Oh yeah, sure you would.

Yep.

Now, put your self in the place of the "uneducated, unskilled" employee
that Walmart preys on. No place else to work, you're not calling the
cops or pulling any fire alarms. It's best not to try and put your self
into the mindset of the people that Walmart hires.

If someone is willing to let himself be unlawfully detained he deserves
what happens to him.

I had a car salesman pull something like that on me--locked me in his
office while he went to "try to negotiate a better price". He stained his
pants when he came back and found me sitting in his chair and my buddy Sam
Colt sitting on his desk.

--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm kind of surprised that you've gotten so hung up on a word. I would
think that you would have more to offer than simply asking for
citations, references and definitions. Information on Walmart's
practices is readily available on the net if you care to look. Of
course if your mind is already made up, that's unnecessary. Facts
might muddy the waters of your clear thinking.

R


The facts are certainly not doing a whole lot for your spin.

Cite one case where Wal-mart had illegals on their payroll.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:59:10 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

On Nov 17, 1:00 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:00:29 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?

Single bust, multiple locations.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you
prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store
at a time?

That would be repeated busts.

That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page
from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the economies
of scale.

Yes, they are, hence the single bust that you keep claiming was not a
single bust.

Bust - Slang.
a. an arrest.
b. a police raid.

Notice that the articles 'an' and 'a' - those are singular in nature.
There were multiple raids, at multiple locations, and multiple people
were arrested.

Notice that you have not stated from what source you took this definition.

BF, the poster who used the word numerous, wrote: Walmart has also been
busted numerous times for paying below minimum wage to illegal aliens."
245 illegal aliens were arrested and deported from those raids - that's
numerous...at least in most people's definitions of the word. Numerous -
adj : amounting to a large indefinite number; "numerous times"; "the
family was numerous"

I'm kind of surprised that you've gotten so hung up on a word. I would
think that you would have more to offer than simply asking for
citations, references and definitions. Information on Walmart's
practices is readily available on the net if you care to look. Of
course if your mind is already made up, that's unnecessary. Facts might
muddy the waters of your clear thinking.

The statement that there were "numerous busts" implies that Wal-Mart was
busted, taken to court, found guilty or innocent as the case may
be, continued the practice, was busted again, continued the practice, was
busted again, etc, numerous times. That is not what happened, what
happened was that they were raided, in many locations, as part of a single
unified police operation that led to a single trial and a single ruling.

It's not a matter of "being hung up on a word", it's a matter of not
letting you get away with a misleading accusation.



--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

On 16 Nov 2006 23:04:01 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

Back up there a moment, Hoss. Walmart foists some of what should be
their costs of doing business onto government programs. So instead of
paying their own way, Walmart is essentially getting subsidized by the
government. Do you feel Walmart needs the help financially? You're
okay with a mega-rich company taking some of your tax money simply
because they want bigger profits?

No more than McDonalds is or babysitting jobs are or any other minimum
wage, no benefit job is. These people don't DESERVE benefits. You
don't get free health care for breathing, you have to work hard and
EARN the right.

The fact that these people have no education and no skills and half of
them have 6 kids by 6 fathers by the time they're 24 because nobody
ever taught them to be responsible isn't Walmart's problem. Hell,
without Walmart, these people would be on welfare and completely
living off the public dole.

Try again.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:27:06 -0600, Prometheus
wrote:

If you want a real ego boost, go to a Pier One store- all the defects
you've described, with a much higher price tag!

Exactly. I have a friend who is a manager for Pier One in Washington
and she says they're having a heck of a time because most people are
saying screw it, they can buy the same quality furniture at 1/2 the
price at Walmart and other discounters, why bother going to Pier One?

On 17 Nov 2006 05:21:24 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

From your link:
" Though most of the illegal workers were employed by third-party
contractors"

Hardly backs up the statement that Wal Mart has been busted.

Yes, the one case I can think of was their subcontracted maintenance
service, it was the job of the company they hired to check the
immigration status of their workers, not Walmart's job to make sure
they did. I'm certain Walmart has been busted, and rightfully so, for
labor violations and they deserve to be fined just like anyone else
for it, but the Walmart-whiners will really go to any length to lie
about Walmart, just to say "see, I told you so."

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:28:25 -0500, "Locutus"
wrote:

I have a cleaning company that cleans my business. I have no idea if they
are illegal or not.

Nor is it your problem if they are, at least not legally. You have no
obligation, or even a legal ability to question their legal status.
That's the job of the owners of the company you contract with, not
yours.

And it's not Walmart's either.

On 17 Nov 2006 11:18:05 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I used to be one of the uneducated, unskilled and joined the military.
Got out with better skills and some college.
Got a good paying job with no benefits.
Quit that job for one that paid less but had benefits
Got more education
Worked hard
Got more money

Fairly simple to improve your situation, quit whining and do it.

Exactly. And in addition to the above, people need to start being
more responsible for themselves in general. All of the above isn't
going to make a damn difference if you're on drugs, have a half-dozen
illegitimate children, etc. At that point, you're pretty well
screwed, but you did it to yourself. Actions have consequences,
period.

On Nov 17, 4:19 pm, "Locutus" wrote:

The facts are certainly not doing a whole lot for your spin.

Cite one case where Wal-mart had illegals on their payroll.

Sheesh. You must be kidding me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in681593.shtml
The paragraph that starts with "On Oct. 23,..."

And if you like the bizar
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102928,00.html

This takes the cake, though:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...4421-2951r.htm
Notice how long it takes Walmart to pay off a $11 million dollar fine?
16 hours of sales. Wow. Boy, I bet that taught them a lesson.

From that same article, "Last month, the Labor Department's Office of
Inspector General began an investigation after Wal-Mart was fined
$135,540 for child labor law violations in what critics called a
"sweetheart deal." The settlement also required the department to
provide 15 days of notice to Wal-Mart's headquarters before inspecting
any store." Well, hell, I'd love that too. I wonder if I could get
OSHA to announce their visits two weeks in advance? That $135K fine
was paid by 15 seconds of sales by Walmart.

This stuff should **** you off. It makes me wonder why it doesn't.

And stop making me do your homework for you. That's not what I'm here
for.
There's plenty of information on Walmart's practices if you want to
learn as opposed to just having an uniformed opinion.

J. Clarke stated in one of his earliest posts on this topic that he was
no fan of Walmart. I get the feeling that you are a big fan. That's
all fine and dandy. There's a lot of good in the company, and they've
certainly dragged retailing into the 21st century. But there's no need
to defend the bad things about someone/something you like. That's
loyal, for sure, but it's also stupid. I don't think you're a stupid
guy.

You must know that your _opinion_ carries weight. You don't have to
picket outside of the store to make your voice heard. Just let people
know what a particular company is doing right and what a company is
doing wrong. Negative publicity will affect their bottom line, and in
the corporate world, that's the only thing that they hear.

R

On Nov 17, 5:00 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:59:10 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 17, 1:00 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:00:29 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?

Single bust, multiple locations.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you
prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store
at a time?

That would be repeated busts.

That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page
from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the economies
of scale.

Yes, they are, hence the single bust that you keep claiming was not a
single bust.

Bust - Slang.
a. an arrest.
b. a police raid.

Notice that the articles 'an' and 'a' - those are singular in nature.
There were multiple raids, at multiple locations, and multiple people
were arrested.

Notice that you have not stated from what source you took this definition.

Do you want me to spoon feed you, too?

BF, the poster who used the word numerous, wrote: Walmart has also been
busted numerous times for paying below minimum wage to illegal aliens."
245 illegal aliens were arrested and deported from those raids - that's
numerous...at least in most people's definitions of the word. Numerous -
adj : amounting to a large indefinite number; "numerous times"; "the
family was numerous"

I'm kind of surprised that you've gotten so hung up on a word. I would
think that you would have more to offer than simply asking for
citations, references and definitions. Information on Walmart's
practices is readily available on the net if you care to look. Of
course if your mind is already made up, that's unnecessary. Facts might
muddy the waters of your clear thinking.

The statement that there were "numerous busts" implies that Wal-Mart was
busted, taken to court, found guilty or innocent as the case may
be, continued the practice, was busted again, continued the practice, was
busted again, etc, numerous times. That is not what happened, what
happened was that they were raided, in many locations, as part of a single
unified police operation that led to a single trial and a single ruling.

You're reading impaired, aren't you? Dyslexic? Having a senior moment
- repeatedly?
The raids took place over a period of years.
Just drop it, okay?

It's not a matter of "being hung up on a word", it's a matter of not
letting you get away with a misleading accusation.

There is nothing misleading in saying that Walmart has exhibited a
pattern of maximizing profits by squeezing everyone and everything to
make a buck. Some of the squeezing took place by locking people in
stores, not paying overtime, hiring companies to distance themselves
from hiring illegal aliens when there are documents and recorded
conversations proving they knew of the illegals, having minors
operating machinery and violating child labor laws, I'm getting bored,
you?

R

R

On Nov 17, 6:18 pm, Brian Henderson
wrote:
On 16 Nov 2006 23:04:01 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

Back up there a moment, Hoss. Walmart foists some of what should be
their costs of doing business onto government programs. So instead of
paying their own way, Walmart is essentially getting subsidized by the
government. Do you feel Walmart needs the help financially? You're
okay with a mega-rich company taking some of your tax money simply
because they want bigger profits?

No more than McDonalds is or babysitting jobs are or any other minimum
wage, no benefit job is. These people don't DESERVE benefits. You
don't get free health care for breathing, you have to work hard and
EARN the right.

The fact that these people have no education and no skills and half of
them have 6 kids by 6 fathers by the time they're 24 because nobody
ever taught them to be responsible isn't Walmart's problem. Hell,
without Walmart, these people would be on welfare and completely
living off the public dole.

Try again.

I'm sorry, did you say something? I couldn't hear it though all of the
bile spewing out of you.

R

I have absolutely no problem with Wal-Mart driving businesses out of the
"cheap crap"market.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:27:06 -0600, Prometheus
wrote:

If you want a real ego boost, go to a Pier One store- all the defects
you've described, with a much higher price tag!

Exactly. I have a friend who is a manager for Pier One in Washington
and she says they're having a heck of a time because most people are
saying screw it, they can buy the same quality furniture at 1/2 the
price at Walmart and other discounters, why bother going to Pier One?

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:05:03 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

snip

I'm sorry, did you say something? I couldn't hear it though all of the
bile spewing out of you.

plonk




--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

wrote:



I was at Walmart the other day getting a tire repaired. As I wandered
around the store, I came up the 'furniture' aisle and saw an
unfinished spruce/pine chest. It was crudely made of rough milled
(read construction wood) and warped 1x4, rough cut ends, badly fitted
and nailed together with a pallet nail gun. Only 49$. This thing
makes Ikea knock down furniture look like heirloom craftmanship.

Puts a whole new perspective on things. The next time I beat myself
up for the flaws I see in my finished stuff I'll go wandering through
Walmart.

I got to get out more.

Pete

Hopefully the tire repair was done better

In article ,
Brian Henderson wrote:

No more than McDonalds is or babysitting jobs are or any other minimum
wage, no benefit job is. These people don't DESERVE benefits. You
don't get free health care for breathing, you have to work hard and
EARN the right.


Yeah! And child labor laws should be repealed, too, since they prevent
childern from working hard and earning their health care.
--
A man who throws dirt loses ground.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland -

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:28:08 GMT, "CW" wrote:

You're working in the wrong area. They all do here. I once worked in a place
where I was the Boss's one employee. Paid full benefits.

Well, I'm planning on changing that sometime in the not-too-distant
future. In my neck of the woods, you're lucky if you can get health
insurance anywhere besides going to Blue Cross and signing yourself
up. The places that do provide it do so with very high price tags to
the employee (often higher than just going directly to an insurance
company)

"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .

And being skilled labor doesn't guarantee health care, either. Most
job shops with less than fifteen employees (and some larger ones as
well) don't offer it either.

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:17:40 -0600, ()
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Henderson wrote:

No more than McDonalds is or babysitting jobs are or any other minimum
wage, no benefit job is. These people don't DESERVE benefits. You
don't get free health care for breathing, you have to work hard and
EARN the right.


Yeah! And child labor laws should be repealed, too, since they prevent
childern from working hard and earning their health care.

Damn, Larry- So have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Nobody was talking about kids. There are all sorts of adult land carp
taking up space in the world, and I don't know that I want to work so
that they can have free health care when their livers fail after 30 or
40 years of hard drinking, or after they get knifed in a scuffle. I
don't mind a little of my earnings going to help their kids, but only
if those kids are moved into a better situation.

A person has to accept the responsibility to look out for themselves
if they accept the freedom to act like an asshole. If they don't do
that, all the money and goodwill in the world can't help them.
Children and handicapped people (and I mean *real* handicapped people-
not hypochondriacs and drug addicts) are exceptions to the general
rule- but only because they *can't* make the choices they need to
make. Able-bodied adults who don't make the right choices simply
*won't*.

On Nov 18, 1:52 am, Prometheus wrote:

Nobody was talking about kids. There are all sorts of adult land carp
taking up space in the world, and I don't know that I want to work so
that they can have free health care when their livers fail after 30 or
40 years of hard drinking, or after they get knifed in a scuffle. I
don't mind a little of my earnings going to help their kids, but only
if those kids are moved into a better situation.

A person has to accept the responsibility to look out for themselves
if they accept the freedom to act like an asshole. If they don't do
that, all the money and goodwill in the world can't help them.
Children and handicapped people (and I mean *real* handicapped people-
not hypochondriacs and drug addicts) are exceptions to the general
rule- but only because they *can't* make the choices they need to
make. Able-bodied adults who don't make the right choices simply
*won't*.

I can't argue with any of that. I'd hazard a guess that the vast
majority of people feel the way you do. I'd take it a step further and
require all criminal penalties and jail time incorporate substantial
public service and/or work. The amount of work performed would
contribute towards shortening the time served. Instill habits of hard
work and productive efforts.

The part about your not minding if a little of your money went to help
people out is also a commonly held viewpoint. That's one of the issues
I have with Walmart. They keep their costs down and let the government
take up the slack, other companies take the risks, other countries
violate the law, for them. One of the largest companies in the world
gets fines that would make a slap on the wrist look like the death
penalty. Something's wrong there.

R

On Nov 17, 8:01 pm, "CW" wrote:
I have absolutely no problem with Wal-Mart driving businesses out of the
"cheap crap"market.

I don't either. Read the book "The Tipping Point" by Gladstone if you
haven't already. One of his points is that it's not a race to the
bottom.

R