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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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Why GO BIG?
I suspect it's because I've not been turning long enough
and have never used one, but I don't understand why having a Stubby S750 or one of its peers becomes the ultimate lathe to which so many turners aspire. Other than permitting one to GO BIG, turning 400, 500 or 600 pound three foot diameter chunks of wood into something without having to worry about bogging down the motor, what is the appeal of this class of lathe? charlie b |
#2
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Why GO BIG?
charlieb wrote:
I suspect it's because I've not been turning long enough and have never used one, but I don't understand why having a Stubby S750 or one of its peers becomes the ultimate lathe to which so many turners aspire. Other than permitting one to GO BIG, turning 400, 500 or 600 pound three foot diameter chunks of wood into something without having to worry about bogging down the motor, what is the appeal of this class of lathe? It won't bog down on smaller pieces. What is the appeal of a Ferrari or SUV? |
#3
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Why GO BIG?
"charlieb" wrote in message ... I suspect it's because I've not been turning long enough and have never used one, but I don't understand why having a Stubby S750 or one of its peers becomes the ultimate lathe to which so many turners aspire. Other than permitting one to GO BIG, turning 400, 500 or 600 pound three foot diameter chunks of wood into something without having to worry about bogging down the motor, what is the appeal of this class of lathe? It does the smaller pieces well, I'm sure. Then there's the capability for large should you get the desire. Some people have excess cash with which to indulge themselves. I envy them. Guy I bought my lathe from was getting a Oneway. Probably has turned as many pieces in the last two years as I in the last two months. But he's done them in style! |
#4
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Why GO BIG?
Charlie:
Try a 750 for a day and you'd find out. The freedom from vibration, the fact that everything slides smoothly and locks down properly, the quiet... It makes even tiny things like lace bobbins (something I like to turn) faster and more fun to do. And, when it comes to big things -- the blanks which are too big for me are few and far between. On the other hand, I'm biased... Bill charlieb wrote: I suspect it's because I've not been turning long enough and have never used one, but I don't understand why having a Stubby S750 or one of its peers becomes the ultimate lathe to which so many turners aspire. Other than permitting one to GO BIG, turning 400, 500 or 600 pound three foot diameter chunks of wood into something without having to worry about bogging down the motor, what is the appeal of this class of lathe? charlie b |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Why GO BIG?
The precision, power, and sheer mass of the high end lathes makes turning
smaller objects much more enjoyable, too. You probably won't appreciate it until you try one, but it really does make a difference, even for 5 inch weed pots. You can go to the post office on your moped, but wouldn't you enjoy the trip more in a Mercedes? -mp |
#6
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Why GO BIG?
Mike Paulson wrote:
inch weed pots. You can go to the post office on your moped, but wouldn't you enjoy the trip more in a Mercedes? -mp Yeah, but I enjoy the trip to the bank more on the moped! g ....Kevin -- Kevin Miller http://www.alaska.net/~atftb Juneau, Alaska Registered Linux User No: 307357 |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Why GO BIG?
I don't understand why
having a Stubby S750 or one of its peers becomes the ultimate lathe to which so many turners aspire. Other than permitting one to GO BIG, turning 400, 500 or 600 pound three foot diameter chunks of wood into something without having to worry about bogging down the motor, what is the appeal of this class of lathe? charlie b Let me second Mike Paulson's comments. Any turning is more enjoyable when the machine is rock solid. I recently switched from an old Nova 1500 to a Stubby F600 and notice the difference most when doing hollow forms from wet wood: you just feel a whole lot more in control when vibration is absent Kip Powers Rogers, AR |
#8
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Why GO BIG?
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message t... Charlie: Try a 750 for a day and you'd find out. The freedom from vibration, the fact that everything slides smoothly and locks down properly, the quiet... It makes even tiny things like lace bobbins (something I like to turn) faster and more fun to do. And, when it comes to big things -- the blanks which are too big for me are few and far between. On the other hand, I'm biased... Bill While I'm aware of your bias, would you predict a Oneway or Vicmarc to be equally free of vibration and as smooth to operate the various parts? If not, why? I'm not trying to put you on the spot--I'm just curious as to your opinions. Max |
#9
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Why GO BIG?
"charlieb" wrote: (clip) what is the appeal of this class of lathe? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The answer comes in two parts--others have answered the question as you have phrased it. Smooth, powerful and big enough to do almost any job. But why not ask, "What is the appeal of the Stubby lathe?" No other lathe that I know of has an auxiliary bed that can be mounted in various places. No other lathe has a bed that can be moved axially AND rotationally. These two features make the lathe uniquely flexible, both in capability and comfort. Further, the sliding bed makes the lathe particularly good as a bowl lathe, while providing decent capacity for spindle work, without taking up a lot of shop space. In addition, the bed arrangement results in a tailstock that is easy to remove and replace without back strain. We Stubby owners never talk about building a trundle stand just to accomodate the tailstock. When my friend ordered a One-way, he had to specify the spindle height. Stubby is adjustable. Stubby has a build-in vacuum port. That is EXTREMELY convenient compared to all the plumbing and rotating seals other lathes need. But I do not recommend trying to make a life-size mannequin on the Stubby to hold a wig. G |
#10
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Why GO BIG?
I agree that a Stubby is comparable to a Mercedes or a Beamer so if
owning the best is your cup of tea it's a good way to go, but a Jet mini is not a moped. It's at least a Chevvie or a Dodge, maybe a Cambry. Some of the sheet metal lathes, HF and old AMTs might be scooters, but my little Jet and mid sized N3k work for me and don't owe me anything. I'm the limiting factor, not my lathes. I could be getting hard of hearing, but so far I haven't needed ear muffs. My affordable lathes do shake once every day, but only when the long freight trains crossing the nearby bridge make everything shudder. My mail is delivered so I don't need a Ferrari to go get it. It would probably be dented in the parking lot anyway. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#11
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Why GO BIG?
It is difficult for me to comment here because of my position in these
things. I've never turned on a Vicmarc but think that it is a dandy lathe and is quite a bit less expensive than the Stubby 750. But, now we have the F600 which, while it doesn't have the features which are exclusive to the 750 and the 1000, is a jim dandy traditional short bed machine and just happens to be priced competitively with the Vicmarc 300 shortbed. I have, however, turned on a number of Oneways including the one John Jordan owned. They are a nice lathe. But, when it came time to plunk down big bucks, I bought my Stubby -- in '99 -- no regrets. Bill Maxprop wrote: "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message t... Charlie: Try a 750 for a day and you'd find out. The freedom from vibration, the fact that everything slides smoothly and locks down properly, the quiet... It makes even tiny things like lace bobbins (something I like to turn) faster and more fun to do. And, when it comes to big things -- the blanks which are too big for me are few and far between. On the other hand, I'm biased... Bill While I'm aware of your bias, would you predict a Oneway or Vicmarc to be equally free of vibration and as smooth to operate the various parts? If not, why? I'm not trying to put you on the spot--I'm just curious as to your opinions. Max |
#12
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Why GO BIG?
I have 4 lathes now, none of them in the same ball park as the stubby. I
like the small lathe for pens, the mid size for spindles, the bowl lathe for most bowls and the big Craftsman for everything else. One of these days when I am rich and famous (hah! to either;-)) I may get a Stubby or One Way but mostly I just enjoy what I do now. If I had to take one lathe it would be the Craftsman. I like the size and weight. -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
#13
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Why GO BIG?
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... Maxprop wrote: While I'm aware of your bias, would you predict a Oneway or Vicmarc to be equally free of vibration and as smooth to operate the various parts? If not, why? I'm not trying to put you on the spot--I'm just curious as to your opinions. Max It is difficult for me to comment here because of my position in these things. I've never turned on a Vicmarc but think that it is a dandy lathe and is quite a bit less expensive than the Stubby 750. But, now we have the F600 which, while it doesn't have the features which are exclusive to the 750 and the 1000, is a jim dandy traditional short bed machine and just happens to be priced competitively with the Vicmarc 300 shortbed. I have, however, turned on a number of Oneways including the one John Jordan owned. They are a nice lathe. But, when it came time to plunk down big bucks, I bought my Stubby -- in '99 -- no regrets. Bill I can appreciate your position, Bill, and I thank you for your opinion. I'm in the market for a better lathe than my Jet 1442, but the cost difference between a Vicmarc 300 and a Stubby 750 or 1000, a Oneway (larger), or a VB is substantial enough to warrant some investigation as to the differences and similarities between them. I must admit I'm unaware of the Stubby F600. I'll take a look at that. Max |
#14
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Why GO BIG?
I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew
far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment And I've known several guys who owned a car that could go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and with a top end of well over 160 mph - with disc brakes the size of pizza pans - the LARGE sized pizza pans. Two actually got their car up to 110 mph - scared themselves - into trading their dream car in for something a bit more useful - and a hell of a lot less expensive to insure. The Stubby is a unique machine, designed from the ground up to a) be rock solid and b) provide plenty of capacity and flexability. It has many unique features. My concern would be, god forbid, replacement parts. If you have to put up a grand for the deposit just to get on the list for a unit, then wait 3 or 4 months to get it- after putting up almost another five grand - and then some for shipping cost - I wonder about how long it would take to get a replacement part. Having NO working lathe for a couple of months would "disturb" me. charlie b |
#15
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Why GO BIG?
On Mar 6, 12:42 am, charlieb wrote:
I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment SNIP Although carpentry/remodeling is and has been my life for over 30 years, it is not an uncommon experience for me at all to go to a homeowner's house with a shop to see more tools, and certainly more high end tools than I own. Most spend their time with their tools polishing, tuning, rust proofing, adjusting, setting up, and purchasing attachments to get the tools exactly where they want them. Then they make shelves, cutting boards, and the same style of cabinets I made at 18 years old. My concern would be, god forbid, replacement parts. If you have to put up a grand for the deposit just to get on the list for a unit, then wait 3 or 4 months to get it- after putting up almost another five grand - and then some for shipping cost - I wonder about how long it would take to get a replacement part. SNIP Although I have never heard of the big boy lathes failing, I am sure like all machines they do. I have heard rumors of good service from Woodcraft on the Oneway products but don't know about any of the others. Hopefully, like in the days when investing in a tool meant you could expect a return of service and reliability commensurate with your cash outlay, the big boy lathes last well. Interesting question, though. Robert |
#16
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Why GO BIG?
" wrote in
ups.com: On Mar 6, 12:42 am, charlieb wrote: I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment SNIP Although carpentry/remodeling is and has been my life for over 30 years, it is not an uncommon experience for me at all to go to a homeowner's house with a shop to see more tools, and certainly more high end tools than I own. Most spend their time with their tools polishing, tuning, rust proofing, adjusting, setting up, and purchasing attachments to get the tools exactly where they want them. Then they make shelves, cutting boards, and the same style of cabinets I made at 18 years old. Robert I may be one of those guys, Robert. There's a lot of tools and toys in the garage shop, and I can do a lot with them. But I don't have the concentrated time to get to some of the projects, and get them done, and so bringing in a craftsperson with the skills, experience and some tools makes a lot of sense. I have other things to do. Like earn a living at what I do. Or play with the projects I want to play with. Like charlie says, you can write a check for tools. You have to earn your stripes as a craftsman. For some of us, writing the check was the first part. Six or eight years ago, I was building a shed in the back corner of the lot. for the stuff I was kicking out of the garage, so I could put more tools into it. As September closed, I was way behind on the project, work was really busy, and one of my sons had my truck up in Idaho, along with his Jeep. I needed to fly up there, and bring it home, but I needed to finish the job on the shed - get it dried in. One of his friends needed some work, so I put him to work, while I went off. He finished the job though to the caulking and paint, and took an old table saw I hadn't used in the two years I'd had it, as well as the very reasonable fee we'd worked on. We were both quite pleased. The young fellow has a garage full of tools now, a wife and very young son, and a finish carpentry and cabinet business, of which he, and we, are quite proud. He was by today for a few minutes, and we had really nice conversation. Some of us are quite pleased to see others do well with tools like the ones we own, but often have little time to use. But there's no Stubby in my foreseeable future, either. A Powermatic, maybe. Patriarch |
#17
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Why GO BIG?
About your quest for a better lathe -- when I go shopping for a new car
I drive it. I would do the same for a lathe. Stubby owners are usually happy to allow you into their shops and I suspect owners of other lathes would do the same. Drive several and buy the one you like best. Bill Maxprop wrote: "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... Maxprop wrote: While I'm aware of your bias, would you predict a Oneway or Vicmarc to be equally free of vibration and as smooth to operate the various parts? If not, why? I'm not trying to put you on the spot--I'm just curious as to your opinions. Max It is difficult for me to comment here because of my position in these things. I've never turned on a Vicmarc but think that it is a dandy lathe and is quite a bit less expensive than the Stubby 750. But, now we have the F600 which, while it doesn't have the features which are exclusive to the 750 and the 1000, is a jim dandy traditional short bed machine and just happens to be priced competitively with the Vicmarc 300 shortbed. I have, however, turned on a number of Oneways including the one John Jordan owned. They are a nice lathe. But, when it came time to plunk down big bucks, I bought my Stubby -- in '99 -- no regrets. Bill I can appreciate your position, Bill, and I thank you for your opinion. I'm in the market for a better lathe than my Jet 1442, but the cost difference between a Vicmarc 300 and a Stubby 750 or 1000, a Oneway (larger), or a VB is substantial enough to warrant some investigation as to the differences and similarities between them. I must admit I'm unaware of the Stubby F600. I'll take a look at that. Max |
#18
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Why GO BIG?
"charlieb" wrote in message ... I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment And I've known several guys who owned a car that could go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and with a top end of well over 160 mph - with disc brakes the size of pizza pans - the LARGE sized pizza pans. Two actually got their car up to 110 mph - scared themselves - into trading their dream car in for something a bit more useful - and a hell of a lot less expensive to insure. The Stubby is a unique machine, designed from the ground up to a) be rock solid and b) provide plenty of capacity and flexability. It has many unique features. My concern would be, god forbid, replacement parts. If you have to put up a grand for the deposit just to get on the list for a unit, then wait 3 or 4 months to get it- after putting up almost another five grand - and then some for shipping cost - I wonder about how long it would take to get a replacement part. Having NO working lathe for a couple of months would "disturb" me. charlie b Assuming this post is a response to my inquiry about Stubby lathes, is that a touch of envy I detect in your post, Charlie? Your presumption that an upper-end lathe would constitute little more than a trophy in my shop appears suspiciously close to arrogance. Although a relative newcomer, my learning curve is steep and I continue to improve. Becoming a competent turner is a goal which I will achieve with time. That some individuals have the financial ability to buy pretty much whatever they desire is irrelevant. If not envy, are you implying that an expensive lathe is a poor investment for a turner ultimately desirous of supplementing his retirement income with his work? Or even for an aggressive amateur who simply enjoys making objets d'art and/or gifts for friends? Or for one who appreciates fine machinery and understands the annoyances and idiosyncrasies avoided by having top quality machinery? You comments w/r/t the Stubby are helpful. I am in the process of gathering information about the better quality lathes available, and you obviously know more about the Stubby than I. I regret that you found it necessary to take a cheap shot at me first. Max |
#19
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Why GO BIG?
I'll address the replacement parts issue...
I stock most parts in the US. Many of the parts are off-the-shelf -- nuts, bolts, stuff like that. Castings? -- not much to go wrong here. Compatible bearings are available from a number of major manufacturers and I stock them. I also stock a loaner kit of stuff which will make your job of replacing bearings easier. The little handles which lock the tool rest? They are available from the major industrial suppliers and I also stock them. Belts -- these are flat belts and a little difficult to come by -- I stock them. Electronics -- all assembled here, mainly from Cutler Hammer (Eaton) parts. I stock everything and most items are also available from the major electronics suppliers. Further, there are plenty of parts which you can substitute for the ones I supply. The Start, Stop, and Direction switches are all 22.5 mm and that is a standard size. VFD -- Cutler Hammer (Eaton). I stock them. The speed pot -- if you drop the remote control enough times, you can get a replacement for the pot from me or from your local Radio Shack. Also remember that there are a lot of parts which, if they fail, you can work around the problem. You have a spare banjo so you have a spare tool rest lock. If you have blown up the spindle lock, you have wrenches, etc... The stand? A weldment made here. Not much to go wrong. So, what's the problem? I have spares of just about everything. BTW, the F600, the S750, and the S1000 all use a common headstock which helps when it comes to stocking parts. Bill charlieb wrote: I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment And I've known several guys who owned a car that could go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and with a top end of well over 160 mph - with disc brakes the size of pizza pans - the LARGE sized pizza pans. Two actually got their car up to 110 mph - scared themselves - into trading their dream car in for something a bit more useful - and a hell of a lot less expensive to insure. The Stubby is a unique machine, designed from the ground up to a) be rock solid and b) provide plenty of capacity and flexability. It has many unique features. My concern would be, god forbid, replacement parts. If you have to put up a grand for the deposit just to get on the list for a unit, then wait 3 or 4 months to get it- after putting up almost another five grand - and then some for shipping cost - I wonder about how long it would take to get a replacement part. Having NO working lathe for a couple of months would "disturb" me. charlie b |
#20
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Why GO BIG?
wrote in message ups.com... On Mar 6, 12:42 am, charlieb wrote: I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment SNIP Although carpentry/remodeling is and has been my life for over 30 years, it is not an uncommon experience for me at all to go to a homeowner's house with a shop to see more tools, and certainly more high end tools than I own. Most spend their time with their tools polishing, tuning, rust proofing, adjusting, setting up, and purchasing attachments to get the tools exactly where they want them. Then they make shelves, cutting boards, and the same style of cabinets I made at 18 years old. My comments to Charlie apply to you in spades, Robert. Your paragraphs above would seem patently arrogant. I've always been puzzled why there are always a few in various trades who harbor such resentment toward those who pursue the same activities on an amateur or hobby-related basis. Certainly no amateur carpenter or cabinetmaker routinely calls your skills into question, do they? So why do you appear to be threatened? If its not threats you feel, your comments above would simply constitute mean-spiritedness and arrogance, or at least a high degree of jealousy toward those with the means to buy fine equipment. Not a great recommendation for one who purports to earn his living by selling his skills to the buying public. You are in a rare position to be helpful to those with lesser skills and far less experience. Why you've instead chosen to demonstrate disdain is beyond my comprehension. Max |
#21
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Why GO BIG?
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message t... About your quest for a better lathe -- when I go shopping for a new car I drive it. I would do the same for a lathe. Stubby owners are usually happy to allow you into their shops and I suspect owners of other lathes would do the same. Drive several and buy the one you like best. Bill That's always fine advice, however logistically sometimes impractical. We don't have an overabundance of turners in this area, but I will take your advice and attempt to locate owners of the lathes in question before plunking down cash. That's my usual modus operandi anyway when buying virtually anything. As an aside, I've shown and demonstrated my current lathe to several turners with interest in that model. Thanks. Max |
#22
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Why GO BIG?
Maxprop wrote:
Assuming this post is a response to my inquiry about Stubby lathes, is that a touch of envy I detect in your post, Charlie? Your presumption that an upper-end lathe would constitute little more than a trophy in my shop appears suspiciously close to arrogance. Although a relative newcomer, my learning curve is steep and I continue to improve. Becoming a competent turner is a goal which I will achieve with time. That some individuals have the financial ability to buy pretty much whatever they desire is irrelevant. If not envy, are you implying that an expensive lathe is a poor investment for a turner ultimately desirous of supplementing his retirement income with his work? Or even for an aggressive amateur who simply enjoys making objets d'art and/or gifts for friends? Or for one who appreciates fine machinery and understands the annoyances and idiosyncrasies avoided by having top quality machinery? You comments w/r/t the Stubby are helpful. I am in the process of gathering information about the better quality lathes available, and you obviously know more about the Stubby than I. I regret that you found it necessary to take a cheap shot at me first. Max Max: If you took my post to be in any way a dig at you - apologies. I assure you that was not my intent. If you reread my post, read it more as an internal dialogue - put to print and posted - wondering out loud as it were. If you've read any of my other posts I think you'll see that I'm not one to belittle anyone knowingly. My wondering out loud about those who think they can buy knowledge, skills and abilities via the purchase of the most expensive equiptment -be it a woodworking tool or machine, jewelry making equiptment, cars or anything else was the starting point of Why Go Big. The rest of my wondering out loud may has answered my question. The class of lathes in the Go Big category all seem to be something with almost limitless possibilities - especially the Stubby. Of the various types of woodworking I've done, no power tool I own or have used is perfect, some being more limiting than others. The Stubby seems to offer the least constraints to woodturning - at least in the context of a hobbyist / amateur shop. Short of turning architectural sized pieces, its capabilities - built in - seem to offer the fewest constraints to turning just about anything one can think of. In today's world, finding an affordable "near perfect" tool is a rarity. Festool seems to be working on changing that for some woodworking tasks, but the Stubby seems to already be there in the turner's world. envy. I'm a woodworking tools phreak. I've got the time and enough money to buy what I want, or think I need. If it's under $500, that's often an impulse buy. If it's over five grand - well I'll do a lot of research before plonking down the money. If you want to poke around my shop - here's the right half - the room of noise and sawdust. Haven't added the JET mini/midi and it's accessories to the right rear corner of the diagram - but I'm working on that update. http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...htSideMap.html When it comes to really nice wood - I've been known to go green on occasion, and sometimes even pass up a deal on some nice stuff. The 200 bf of quarter sawn English Sycamore ( actually a maple not a sycamore) for $4/bf wasn't a deal I passed on, even though it meant a couple days building storage racks for it. But tool envy - not one of my shortcomings. Again, apologies if my post bothered you. Look foreward to your participation in this group. charlie b |
#23
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Why GO BIG?
On Mar 6, 11:52 pm, "Maxprop" wrote:
wrote in message My comments to Charlie apply to you in spades, Robert. Your paragraphs above would seem patently arrogant. I've always been puzzled why there are always a few in various trades who harbor such resentment toward those who pursue the same activities on an amateur or hobby-related basis. Certainly no amateur carpenter or cabinetmaker routinely calls your skills into question, do they? So why do you appear to be threatened? If its not threats you feel, your comments above would simply constitute mean-spiritedness and arrogance, or at least a high degree of jealousy toward those with the means to buy fine equipment. Not a great recommendation for one who purports to earn his living by selling his skills to the buying public. You are in a rare position to be helpful to those with lesser skills and far less experience. Why you've instead chosen to demonstrate disdain is beyond my comprehension. Max- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Max... wow.... make that next cup decaf, OK? I don't mean to come off as arrogant, but it is clear that you don't care to give me the benefit of a doubt. Step back... think... in context, my comment was no different than saying that I run into someone that has a 67 Mustang that they love and cherish, something they polish, sit in, tune up and just enjoy. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH PRIDE IN OWNERSHIP. If you like collecting and enjoy your collection, who cares what it is? Cars, tools, guns, who cares? One of my buddies has a year old Chevy truck that he never uses for anything but hauling his butt around, never, ever as a truck. So what? I can't notice that? He and I both laugh at his cowboy cadillac. He loves it, and that is good enough. I don't understand why he bought a truck instead of a car, but it is the same idea with the tools. Why buy tools you don't use unless you are indeed collecting? You read an awful lot into that post, and I can only assume somebody that makes a living with their craft has snubbed you and hurt your feelings. For me on the other hand, I am the one that shows up on volunteer day with our club to help others learn to turn. FYI, I am also giving free lessons to one of my clients that is absolutely tickled pink to get some help. And if I had a nickel for everyone that asked me to "take a look at something" for them at the end of a job to get free advice I could retire. I even show some of them how to set up their tools as well as diagnose problems. Easy for me to do since it is my life; and some are so gratetful it is silly. The only gripe I ever have with someone with a garage full of tools is when they try to pass themselves off as the next Sam Maloof. Tools don't make the craftsman, only time, commitment and experience will do it. Had you taken to the minute to inquire of me if I ever run into a home craftsman that puts out a nice piece of work, I would immediately reply to the positive. It may take some of the home craftsman longer to do some things, but in fact there are some that turn out better work than many of the professionals I know. As far as helping out those that frequent this group, I do what I can. Between here and rec.woodworking, last year I had about 650 ON TOPIC (or at least pretty close!) responses to anything from someone asking how to set up an HVLP gun to shoot lacquer to installing crown molding on uneven ceilings. I am around 150 this year. I stay out of the politcal horsehockey, and pretty much stay only on the wood related stuff. And I am really surprised that you would go after Charlie. That guy has been one of the most giving and helpful guys in a long time. A genuine enthusiast, he has always generously shared his work, his methods, his "oops", and has even posted diagrams and procedures on his website for all to see. Not to mention his detailed posts and photos... shame on you. Maybe you should hang around here a little more and get to know the guys before you fire (misfire?) out with your pronouncements. I have never seen an honest question go unanwered when posted here. I will say this... I did get a real chuckle out of the thought of being threatened... Not hardly. One thing you learn in the tradess/crafts, is that no matter how good you are at something, there is ALWAYS someone better. Always. Robert |
#24
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Why GO BIG?
I suspect the vast majority of us have seen no arrogance, surely none
intentional in Charlie's or Robert's many contributions to this group of woodturners, nor had we seen such in yours. Just fellow turners with different opinions, some strongly held, from their different perspectives. In one thread X &Y disagree with Z, Next thread Y & Z disagree with X. Most any personal opinion posted here will be taken as arrogance by someone. If offence is taken and posted it can lead to an apology or a strongly worded defence. Neither should be necessary and probably serve little purpose. It's uncomfortable when two net friends can't disagree agreeably. Someone will take this post as arrogant and condescending, That's not intended, it's just the way of the net. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#25
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Why GO BIG?
Bill
I am not a Stubby owner and since I was a mathemetician, I am not about to buy a lottery ticket. However, I have always considered the Stubby to be a good buy for its quality and design. Now you say that a lot of the parts are basically off the shelf hardware and electronics? Sounds like sound engineering practice to me, unlike a lot of cars and such that are made today so that only the manufacturer's dealers can stock them. Way to go! -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com "Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message t... I'll address the replacement parts issue... I stock most parts in the US. Many of the parts are off-the-shelf -- nuts, bolts, stuff like that. Castings? -- not much to go wrong here. Compatible bearings are available from a number of major manufacturers and I stock them. I also stock a loaner kit of stuff which will make your job of replacing bearings easier. The little handles which lock the tool rest? They are available from the major industrial suppliers and I also stock them. Belts -- these are flat belts and a little difficult to come by -- I stock them. Electronics -- all assembled here, mainly from Cutler Hammer (Eaton) parts. I stock everything and most items are also available from the major electronics suppliers. Further, there are plenty of parts which you can substitute for the ones I supply. The Start, Stop, and Direction switches are all 22.5 mm and that is a standard size. VFD -- Cutler Hammer (Eaton). I stock them. The speed pot -- if you drop the remote control enough times, you can get a replacement for the pot from me or from your local Radio Shack. Also remember that there are a lot of parts which, if they fail, you can work around the problem. You have a spare banjo so you have a spare tool rest lock. If you have blown up the spindle lock, you have wrenches, etc... The stand? A weldment made here. Not much to go wrong. So, what's the problem? I have spares of just about everything. BTW, the F600, the S750, and the S1000 all use a common headstock which helps when it comes to stocking parts. Bill charlieb wrote: I guess I'm recalling my jewelry making days. I knew far to many amateur jewelry makers who owned every jewelry making tool, machine and ALL the accessories. Most were under the impression that they could buy knowledge, skills and abilities - if they spent enough on the equiptment And I've known several guys who owned a car that could go 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and with a top end of well over 160 mph - with disc brakes the size of pizza pans - the LARGE sized pizza pans. Two actually got their car up to 110 mph - scared themselves - into trading their dream car in for something a bit more useful - and a hell of a lot less expensive to insure. The Stubby is a unique machine, designed from the ground up to a) be rock solid and b) provide plenty of capacity and flexability. It has many unique features. My concern would be, god forbid, replacement parts. If you have to put up a grand for the deposit just to get on the list for a unit, then wait 3 or 4 months to get it- after putting up almost another five grand - and then some for shipping cost - I wonder about how long it would take to get a replacement part. Having NO working lathe for a couple of months would "disturb" me. charlie b |
#26
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Why GO BIG?
Well said Arch. I might add, "relax folks and go turn a piece of wood." More
and more I find that prayer and turning come together for me. Good for the soul, the mind, the body. Hard to beat. Relax a little before getting too uptight. Almost any one "sounds" arrogant or angry or whatever on the net at times. We do this so often that we forget we can not see the other person and thus lose a huge percentage of the conversation because tone and facial expression disappear. I know for me, as I find somethng that works I get so excited over actually getting it "right" that I must sound like the most arrogant twit around. Practice, practice, practice. Enough preaching. Be at peace with God and all men. Turn wood. -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com "Arch" wrote in message ... I suspect the vast majority of us have seen no arrogance, surely none intentional in Charlie's or Robert's many contributions to this group of woodturners, nor had we seen such in yours. Just fellow turners with different opinions, some strongly held, from their different perspectives. In one thread X &Y disagree with Z, Next thread Y & Z disagree with X. Most any personal opinion posted here will be taken as arrogance by someone. If offence is taken and posted it can lead to an apology or a strongly worded defence. Neither should be necessary and probably serve little purpose. It's uncomfortable when two net friends can't disagree agreeably. Someone will take this post as arrogant and condescending, That's not intended, it's just the way of the net. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#27
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Why GO BIG?
On Mar 7, 6:05 am, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote: Well said Arch. I might add, "relax folks and go turn a piece of wood." More and more I find that prayer and turning come together for me. Good for the soul, the mind, the body. Hard to beat. Relax a little before getting too uptight. Almost any one "sounds" arrogant or angry or whatever on the net at times. We do this so often that we forget we can not see the other person and thus lose a huge percentage of the conversation because tone and facial expression disappear. I know for me, as I find somethng that works I get so excited over actually getting it "right" that I must sound like the most arrogant twit around. Practice, practice, practice. Enough preaching. Be at peace with God and all men. Turn wood. -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canadawww.aroundthewoods.com "Arch" wrote in message ... I suspect the vast majority of us have seen no arrogance, surely none intentional in Charlie's or Robert's many contributions to this group of woodturners, nor had we seen such in yours. Just fellow turners with different opinions, some strongly held, from their different perspectives. In one thread X &Y disagree with Z, Next thread Y & Z disagree with X. Most any personal opinion posted here will be taken as arrogance by someone. If offence is taken and posted it can lead to an apology or a strongly worded defence. Neither should be necessary and probably serve little purpose. It's uncomfortable when two net friends can't disagree agreeably. Someone will take this post as arrogant and condescending, That's not intended, it's just the way of the net. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Very well said, Arch and Darrell. Can't improve on those two posts. Robert |
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Why GO BIG?
On Mar 7, 12:37 am, "Maxprop" wrote:
Much snippage A couple of comments and then a fade back to lurking Max apparently is going to follow advice that has been posted many times in this group regarding new tool purchases and indeed new tool purchases by those just starting out. - Buy the best you can afford. Good sound advice and especially so when coupled with the knowledge that all the extras - chucks, jaws, toos, grinders, etc... can add considerably to the cost. I saw no implication on the part of Charlie that you were buying a trophy. However I've seen some that do, not in woodworking but in other areas. I've no trouble at all with the practice but prefer to see it as they are taking righteous care of tools so the next owner will have a quality and well maintained tool. fading back for now. Thanks -Kevin Assuming this post is a response to my inquiry about Stubby lathes, is that a touch of envy I detect in your post, Charlie? Your presumption that an upper-end lathe would constitute little more than a trophy in my shop appears suspiciously close to arrogance. Although a relative newcomer, my learning curve is steep and I continue to improve. Becoming a competent turner is a goal which I will achieve with time. That some individuals have the financial ability to buy pretty much whatever they desire is irrelevant. If not envy, are you implying that an expensive lathe is a poor investment for a turner ultimately desirous of supplementing his retirement income with his work? Or even for an aggressive amateur who simply enjoys making objets d'art and/or gifts for friends? Or for one who appreciates fine machinery and understands the annoyances and idiosyncrasies avoided by having top quality machinery? You comments w/r/t the Stubby are helpful. I am in the process of gathering information about the better quality lathes available, and you obviously know more about the Stubby than I. I regret that you found it necessary to take a cheap shot at me first. Max |
#29
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Why GO BIG?
wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 6, 11:52 pm, "Maxprop" wrote: wrote in message My comments to Charlie apply to you in spades, Robert. Your paragraphs above would seem patently arrogant. I've always been puzzled why there are always a few in various trades who harbor such resentment toward those who pursue the same activities on an amateur or hobby-related basis. Certainly no amateur carpenter or cabinetmaker routinely calls your skills into question, do they? So why do you appear to be threatened? If its not threats you feel, your comments above would simply constitute mean-spiritedness and arrogance, or at least a high degree of jealousy toward those with the means to buy fine equipment. Not a great recommendation for one who purports to earn his living by selling his skills to the buying public. You are in a rare position to be helpful to those with lesser skills and far less experience. Why you've instead chosen to demonstrate disdain is beyond my comprehension. Max- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Max... wow.... make that next cup decaf, OK? I don't mean to come off as arrogant, but it is clear that you don't care to give me the benefit of a doubt. Step back... think... in context, my comment was no different than saying that I run into someone that has a 67 Mustang that they love and cherish, something they polish, sit in, tune up and just enjoy. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH PRIDE IN OWNERSHIP. If you like collecting and enjoy your collection, who cares what it is? Cars, tools, guns, who cares? One of my buddies has a year old Chevy truck that he never uses for anything but hauling his butt around, never, ever as a truck. So what? I can't notice that? He and I both laugh at his cowboy cadillac. He loves it, and that is good enough. I don't understand why he bought a truck instead of a car, but it is the same idea with the tools. Why buy tools you don't use unless you are indeed collecting? You read an awful lot into that post, and I can only assume somebody that makes a living with their craft has snubbed you and hurt your feelings. For me on the other hand, I am the one that shows up on volunteer day with our club to help others learn to turn. FYI, I am also giving free lessons to one of my clients that is absolutely tickled pink to get some help. And if I had a nickel for everyone that asked me to "take a look at something" for them at the end of a job to get free advice I could retire. I even show some of them how to set up their tools as well as diagnose problems. Easy for me to do since it is my life; and some are so gratetful it is silly. The only gripe I ever have with someone with a garage full of tools is when they try to pass themselves off as the next Sam Maloof. Tools don't make the craftsman, only time, commitment and experience will do it. Had you taken to the minute to inquire of me if I ever run into a home craftsman that puts out a nice piece of work, I would immediately reply to the positive. It may take some of the home craftsman longer to do some things, but in fact there are some that turn out better work than many of the professionals I know. As far as helping out those that frequent this group, I do what I can. Between here and rec.woodworking, last year I had about 650 ON TOPIC (or at least pretty close!) responses to anything from someone asking how to set up an HVLP gun to shoot lacquer to installing crown molding on uneven ceilings. I am around 150 this year. I stay out of the politcal horsehockey, and pretty much stay only on the wood related stuff. And I am really surprised that you would go after Charlie. That guy has been one of the most giving and helpful guys in a long time. A genuine enthusiast, he has always generously shared his work, his methods, his "oops", and has even posted diagrams and procedures on his website for all to see. Not to mention his detailed posts and photos... shame on you. Maybe you should hang around here a little more and get to know the guys before you fire (misfire?) out with your pronouncements. I have never seen an honest question go unanwered when posted here. I will say this... I did get a real chuckle out of the thought of being threatened... Not hardly. One thing you learn in the tradess/crafts, is that no matter how good you are at something, there is ALWAYS someone better. Always. Robert I re-read your earlier post this AM after seeing this post, thinking perhaps that I'd overreacted last evening. While I've always found your posts to be friendly and helpful, I still got the feeling of derision, and perhaps a bit of resentment, from your previous post. It did seem uncharacteristic. While you provided the other side of your take on amateurs in the above post, that earlier post was pointedly negative. My impression was that you'd harbored some negative feelings toward well-equipped amateurs. Please forgive me if I'm wrong. While I've always been treated well by professional craftsman vis-a-vis, I have been denigrated by a few of the experienced turners in this NG previously. I don't carry grudges, and shook off the condescending comments at the time. For some reason, however, yours and Charlie's post struck a nerve with me last evening. My impression was that while attempting to glean information about better machines, two of the more experienced contributors here were making an effort to convince me that I'm either unqualified to own such machines, or a fool for considering them. As you've made the point that that was not the case, please accept my apology and regret for taking you to task. Max |
#30
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Why GO BIG?
"Arch" wrote in message ... I suspect the vast majority of us have seen no arrogance, surely none intentional in Charlie's or Robert's many contributions to this group of woodturners, nor had we seen such in yours. Just fellow turners with different opinions, some strongly held, from their different perspectives. In one thread X &Y disagree with Z, Next thread Y & Z disagree with X. Most any personal opinion posted here will be taken as arrogance by someone. If offence is taken and posted it can lead to an apology or a strongly worded defence. Neither should be necessary and probably serve little purpose. It's uncomfortable when two net friends can't disagree agreeably. Someone will take this post as arrogant and condescending, That's not intended, it's just the way of the net. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter I detect no condescension or arrogance in your response at all, Arch. Just a voice of reason, and I do agree with your statements. Max |
#31
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Why GO BIG?
"charlieb" wrote in message ... Maxprop wrote: Assuming this post is a response to my inquiry about Stubby lathes, is that a touch of envy I detect in your post, Charlie? Your presumption that an upper-end lathe would constitute little more than a trophy in my shop appears suspiciously close to arrogance. Although a relative newcomer, my learning curve is steep and I continue to improve. Becoming a competent turner is a goal which I will achieve with time. That some individuals have the financial ability to buy pretty much whatever they desire is irrelevant. If not envy, are you implying that an expensive lathe is a poor investment for a turner ultimately desirous of supplementing his retirement income with his work? Or even for an aggressive amateur who simply enjoys making objets d'art and/or gifts for friends? Or for one who appreciates fine machinery and understands the annoyances and idiosyncrasies avoided by having top quality machinery? You comments w/r/t the Stubby are helpful. I am in the process of gathering information about the better quality lathes available, and you obviously know more about the Stubby than I. I regret that you found it necessary to take a cheap shot at me first. Max Max: If you took my post to be in any way a dig at you - apologies. I assure you that was not my intent. If you reread my post, read it more as an internal dialogue - put to print and posted - wondering out loud as it were. If you've read any of my other posts I think you'll see that I'm not one to belittle anyone knowingly. My wondering out loud about those who think they can buy knowledge, skills and abilities via the purchase of the most expensive equiptment -be it a woodworking tool or machine, jewelry making equiptment, cars or anything else was the starting point of Why Go Big. The rest of my wondering out loud may has answered my question. The class of lathes in the Go Big category all seem to be something with almost limitless possibilities - especially the Stubby. Of the various types of woodworking I've done, no power tool I own or have used is perfect, some being more limiting than others. The Stubby seems to offer the least constraints to woodturning - at least in the context of a hobbyist / amateur shop. Short of turning architectural sized pieces, its capabilities - built in - seem to offer the fewest constraints to turning just about anything one can think of. In today's world, finding an affordable "near perfect" tool is a rarity. Festool seems to be working on changing that for some woodworking tasks, but the Stubby seems to already be there in the turner's world. envy. I'm a woodworking tools phreak. I've got the time and enough money to buy what I want, or think I need. If it's under $500, that's often an impulse buy. If it's over five grand - well I'll do a lot of research before plonking down the money. If you want to poke around my shop - here's the right half - the room of noise and sawdust. Haven't added the JET mini/midi and it's accessories to the right rear corner of the diagram - but I'm working on that update. http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...htSideMap.html When it comes to really nice wood - I've been known to go green on occasion, and sometimes even pass up a deal on some nice stuff. The 200 bf of quarter sawn English Sycamore ( actually a maple not a sycamore) for $4/bf wasn't a deal I passed on, even though it meant a couple days building storage racks for it. But tool envy - not one of my shortcomings. Again, apologies if my post bothered you. Look foreward to your participation in this group. charlie b Perhaps it was my belief that you were implying my intent to "buy" knowledge and experience through the purchase of a superior machine that I found offensive. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've worked hard and diligently, studying, turning, reading posts in this NG, asking questions, and applying what I've learned in order to get to the level of skill I've achieved. My current abilities are nowhere in the ballpark with those of you who've turned for years, and I'm the first to recognize that. But becoming competent, creative, and productive is my goal; one which I'm confident I will achieve with time. Never has it crossed my mind that it's possible or desirable to circumvent the long learning curve with the purchase of expensive tools. I simply wanted to upgrade my lathe and saw no reason not to consider the very best. Your post above has conveyed a tenor that leads me to believe I've misjudged you, Charlie. For that I'm regretful and offer my apology. I hope you'll accept that as well as my admiration of your tolerance for newcomers who spout off occasionally. Max |
#32
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Why GO BIG?
"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message news:TKxHh.31604$cE3.564@edtnps89... Bill I am not a Stubby owner and since I was a mathemetician, I am not about to buy a lottery ticket. However, I have always considered the Stubby to be a good buy for its quality and design. Now you say that a lot of the parts are basically off the shelf hardware and electronics? Sounds like sound engineering practice to me, unlike a lot of cars and such that are made today so that only the manufacturer's dealers can stock them. Way to go! -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com While on this subject, does anyone know if Vicmarc also stocks replacement and upgrade parts in this country (USA)? Perhaps I should direct this question to some of the retailers. Max |
#33
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Why GO BIG?
On Mar 7, 12:52 pm, "Maxprop" wrote:
SNIP As you've made the point that that was not the case, please accept my apology and regret for taking you to task. Max- Hide quoted text - Max: This kind of response shows why I like this NG, and don't participate much in others. Only a truly class guy would make a post like that. On the net we don't have the advantage of looking at the person we are speaking to so we don't get the tone, body language, or a playful or even mad look one might have in speaking in person. The nuances of personal, spoken conversation often give a completely different take on same subject matter covered in writing. I find that sometimes I will read something that ticked me off, only to look at it later and wonder why. I write a good deal of correspondence and reports for my company, and for me, it is easy to see what kind of day I was having at the time I was writing by looking at the choice of words and phrasing. I try to be careful when I write, but also grew up in the telegram style of business writing as did my peers. Sometimes I can be too straight forward. If you ever venture down south to sunny San Antonio, Texas, let me know. I have four lathes (1 Carbatec, 2 Jet minis, and a Nova 3000) and about 90 tools (a long story - I was sold many at a discount in order to see if I wanted to rep the tool) to play with. Coffee and wood blanks on me. I certainly hope you feel welcome here and that you stay with us and post away. Glad you are on board. Robert |
#34
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Why GO BIG?
wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 7, 12:52 pm, "Maxprop" wrote: SNIP As you've made the point that that was not the case, please accept my apology and regret for taking you to task. Max- Hide quoted text - Max: This kind of response shows why I like this NG, and don't participate much in others. Only a truly class guy would make a post like that. On the net we don't have the advantage of looking at the person we are speaking to so we don't get the tone, body language, or a playful or even mad look one might have in speaking in person. The nuances of personal, spoken conversation often give a completely different take on same subject matter covered in writing. I find that sometimes I will read something that ticked me off, only to look at it later and wonder why. I write a good deal of correspondence and reports for my company, and for me, it is easy to see what kind of day I was having at the time I was writing by looking at the choice of words and phrasing. I try to be careful when I write, but also grew up in the telegram style of business writing as did my peers. Sometimes I can be too straight forward. If you ever venture down south to sunny San Antonio, Texas, let me know. I have four lathes (1 Carbatec, 2 Jet minis, and a Nova 3000) and about 90 tools (a long story - I was sold many at a discount in order to see if I wanted to rep the tool) to play with. Coffee and wood blanks on me. I certainly hope you feel welcome here and that you stay with us and post away. Glad you are on board. Robert Much obliged, Robert. Max |
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Why GO BIG?
One more comment which comes to mind...
Many years ago I drove a TR-3 and it, like most Brit cars, needed parts frequently. I carried points, plugs, tools to do the valve lash adjustment and adjustment of the SU carburetors, etc. The electrical parts were also very suspect (Lucas) so I kept several of these on hand... The dealer never disappointed me when I needed something. At the same time we had a Pontiac and I waited for a Rochester quadrajet carburetor (a piece of junk) for 6 weeks. An aside -- in later years I discovered that that carburetor was made not only by Rochester but also by Carter and Holley -- they all made each others products -- GM's hedge against strikes and such. And I waited 6 weeks. Years later I drove a Mercedes 240D. at about 175000 miles and maybe 10+ years I needed a rebuilt transmission and it was overnighted from Chicago. Where something is made is no indication of whether you can get parts for it. Think about parts for older Craftsman machines. Bill Maxprop wrote: "Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message news:TKxHh.31604$cE3.564@edtnps89... Bill I am not a Stubby owner and since I was a mathemetician, I am not about to buy a lottery ticket. However, I have always considered the Stubby to be a good buy for its quality and design. Now you say that a lot of the parts are basically off the shelf hardware and electronics? Sounds like sound engineering practice to me, unlike a lot of cars and such that are made today so that only the manufacturer's dealers can stock them. Way to go! -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com While on this subject, does anyone know if Vicmarc also stocks replacement and upgrade parts in this country (USA)? Perhaps I should direct this question to some of the retailers. Max |
#36
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Why GO BIG?
Bill Rubenstein wrote:
Many years ago I drove a TR-3 and it, like most Brit cars, needed parts frequently. I carried points, plugs, tools to do the valve lash adjustment and adjustment of the SU carburetors, etc. The electrical parts were also very suspect (Lucas) Prince of Darkness! so I kept several of these on hand... The dealer never disappointed me when I needed something. Drove a TR-4 for a couple years and owned an MGB. Carried tools sufficient to rebuild the MG and a quart of LocTite. |
#37
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Why GO BIG?
Arch wrote:
I suspect the vast majority of us have seen no arrogance, surely none intentional in Charlie's or Robert's many contributions to this group of woodturners, nor had we seen such in yours. Just fellow turners with different opinions, some strongly held, from their different perspectives. In one thread X &Y disagree with Z, Next thread Y & Z disagree with X. Most any personal opinion posted here will be taken as arrogance by someone. If offence is taken and posted it can lead to an apology or a strongly worded defence. Neither should be necessary and probably serve little purpose. It's uncomfortable when two net friends can't disagree agreeably. Someone will take this post as arrogant and condescending, That's not intended, it's just the way of the net. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings Arch, I could hardly agree more. Sometimes I find it useful to take a few days away from the newsgroup. When I come back, I seem to see things a little more clearly. Some threads here turn into the old-style wrangling that used to be typical of nearly all the newsgroups. What went on in 'the wreck' was no worse than what was occurring in the Linux support groups and, I might add, is STILL occurring in the Microsoft support groups I've ventured into lately*. So I filter the threads. If there is a protagonist stirring stuff up in the thread who isn't also a capable and frequent on-topic poster, I filter him, too. I'm usually 'up' for an honest airing of facts, ideas and opinions. But when tempers flare and mud flies, it's time to quarantine the thread and let the emotionally scarred fight things out unseen. Bill *(In fact, XP is such a pain that I am seriously contemplating wiping it off my HD with a copy of Linux. I have a Toshiba Satellite A-105 S2031 and I'm open to suggestions. While the Linux on laptops sites don't report anyone having installed on this exact model, they do seem to have bracketed it fairly well.) -- I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth (much) unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about. H. P. Lovecraft --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000722-3, 03/08/2007 Tested on: 3/8/2007 1:56:55 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
#38
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Why GO BIG?
"Bill Rubenstein" wrote in message ... One more comment which comes to mind... Many years ago I drove a TR-3 and it, like most Brit cars, needed parts frequently. I carried points, plugs, tools to do the valve lash adjustment and adjustment of the SU carburetors, etc. I also owned a TR-3 and carried similar spares in the trunk. Those awful lever shocks were the worst component, IMO. Always leaking. The electrical parts were also very suspect (Lucas) so I kept several of these on hand... The dealer never disappointed me when I needed something. Lucas: Prince of Darkness. By the time I owned my TR-3 there was no shortage of aftermarket parts as well as factory OEM parts available overnight or even at the shop. At the same time we had a Pontiac and I waited for a Rochester quadrajet carburetor (a piece of junk) for 6 weeks. An aside -- in later years I discovered that that carburetor was made not only by Rochester but also by Carter and Holley -- they all made each others products -- GM's hedge against strikes and such. And I waited 6 weeks. Years later I drove a Mercedes 240D. at about 175000 miles and maybe 10+ years I needed a rebuilt transmission and it was overnighted from Chicago. Where something is made is no indication of whether you can get parts for it. Think about parts for older Craftsman machines. Bill--do you also sell the F600? I can't seem to find a price or photos of this lathe. Max |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Why GO BIG?
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:yhPHh.2834$pi.2644@trndny09... Bill Rubenstein wrote: Many years ago I drove a TR-3 and it, like most Brit cars, needed parts frequently. I carried points, plugs, tools to do the valve lash adjustment and adjustment of the SU carburetors, etc. The electrical parts were also very suspect (Lucas) Prince of Darkness! so I kept several of these on hand... The dealer never disappointed me when I needed something. Drove a TR-4 for a couple years and owned an MGB. Carried tools sufficient to rebuild the MG and a quart of LocTite. I also owned an MGB as well as the TR-3. Guess I was a glutton for punishment, but they were great fun autos to drive. I finally sold the MGB when the kids in my neighborhood at college kept stealing the knockoff wheel nuts. Max |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Why GO BIG?
"Maxprop" wrote:
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:yhPHh.2834$pi.2644@trndny09... Bill Rubenstein wrote: Many years ago I drove a TR-3 and it, like most Brit cars, needed parts frequently. I carried points, plugs, tools to do the valve lash adjustment and adjustment of the SU carburetors, etc. The electrical parts were also very suspect (Lucas) Prince of Darkness! so I kept several of these on hand... The dealer never disappointed me when I needed something. Drove a TR-4 for a couple years and owned an MGB. Carried tools sufficient to rebuild the MG and a quart of LocTite. I also owned an MGB as well as the TR-3. Guess I was a glutton for punishment, but they were great fun autos to drive. I finally sold the MGB when the kids in my neighborhood at college kept stealing the knockoff wheel nuts. I sold mine to my boss's boss. Damn fool put a $1000.00 sound system in it and then ran it through a car wash with predictable results. |
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