Hi,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been
highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my
stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps
from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I
have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II.

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?
Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the
Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit
with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see
someone you've just "read". : )

Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice.

Ruth and The General
http://www.torne-lignum.com

Chuck,

Thank you for that in-depth response. It really helped. I think
I'll just recommend Gorilla glue with the warning of too much does
foam.

As to you thinking "age being the factor" with the adhesion with Tite
Bond II, if it broke loose after years, that would be reason to buy
another stopper! : )

I'm fine with flirting................with your wife's permission, of
course!!! Sunday I found my glasses with the stems I turned but I
guess you didn't come back. I'm doing the Florida Symposium in
January, why don't you bring your wife down there to see my glasses?!?
; )

Ruth
http://www.torne-lignum.com
"Carpe Lignum, Torne Lignum"

wrote:

Hi,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been
highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my
stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps
from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I
have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II.

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?
Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the
Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit
with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see
someone you've just "read". : )

Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice.

I didn't used to think that Titebond and the like were suitable for metal.
Then I tried to pick the Titebond II squeeze-out off of my brand new
Besseys. I wouldn't trust it for anything life-threatening but it does
stick remarkably well. If it seems to be sticking well to your stoppers I
wouldn't worry about it.

Ruth and The General
http://www.torne-lignum.com

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 14 Nov 2005 08:34:55 -0800, wrote:

Hi Ruth,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood?

Absolutely, as far as I'm concerned. Definitely want something
pliable, (ie. non-brittle, like epoxy or CA) which will allow for the
differential expansion/contraction of wood vs. metal in various
humidity and temperature situations.

I've been
highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my
stainless steel bottle stoppers.

I've never used this with wood + metal, personally, although I do like
it for wood + wood.

At the show in NC one of the reps
from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue.

I wouldn't use epoxy for the reason aforementioned, although in all
honesty I haven't had many epoxy bonds break. The potential _is_
there, though, because of the brittleness of the cured material.

I have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II.

I was thinking more of age being a factor, rather than seeing an
immediate result.

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?

It does foam a little or a lot, depending on the amount you use, the
tightness of the joint and the wetness of the wood. That said, if you
are careful not to use too much, have a reasonably tight joint and to
coat any surfaces that you are afraid of being foamed-on with paste
wax, the stuff just comes right off if it foams. AAMOF, I don't even
bother with the paste wax and I almost never have a problem carefully
flicking the stuff off the finished wood. YMMV in this regard,
though.

As with all things, you get what you pay for, and what you pay for in
prep and care before gluing you reap the results of in a superior
bond. I have used this stuff for years, and even used it to apply the
barrette backs to barrettes that I used to make...no joint, just plop
the back into a puddle of the glue. Nearly 10 years later the bonds
are just as strong as ever, and the backs are exposed to
alchohol-based hair products and the constant flexing of opening and
closing the barrettes. My wife has probably 15 or 20 of them and uses
them all the time.

As far as shelf life goes, if you squeeze the air out of the bottle
after every use, the stuff lasts a long time. I've got a bottle I've
been using for over 2 years (you don't need much of it!) and it seems
to bond as strong as it ever has.

Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

Pretty much "yes" as far as the 2-part deal, but there are epoxies
that have quite a long working time.

I've tried quite a few different types and brands of adhesives over
the past 30 years of woodworking, and for my money, the most
versatile, strong bond I've found is with the polyurethane adhesives.
I use Titebond II, epoxies and CA glues for various things, but if I
had to be "stuck" with just one glue, it would be Gorilla Glue, hands
down. It's waterproof, shock-resistant, gap-filling, bonds almost
anything to anything...personally, I don't think you can beat it for
an all-around glue.

By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the
Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit
with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see
someone you've just "read". : )

It was such a great pleasure to meet you in Albany. I felt so bad
that I had to leave before we had a chance to really get to talk much,
and if my wife wasn't with me I might have flirted a bit more.
] ; )


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

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Ruth, I have done several salt/pepper sets out of wood and all the
different mfg of the hardware suggest using CA on the little stainless
steel top for the salt shaker.I have found various type of CA at my
local hobby store, anywhere from liquid to a gel for thicker gaps.
Hope this helps.


wrote:
Chuck,

Thank you for that in-depth response. It really helped. I think
I'll just recommend Gorilla glue with the warning of too much does
foam.

As to you thinking "age being the factor" with the adhesion with Tite
Bond II, if it broke loose after years, that would be reason to buy
another stopper! : )

I'm fine with flirting................with your wife's permission, of
course!!! Sunday I found my glasses with the stems I turned but I
guess you didn't come back. I'm doing the Florida Symposium in
January, why don't you bring your wife down there to see my glasses?!?
; )

Ruth
http://www.torne-lignum.com
"Carpe Lignum, Torne Lignum"

Chuck,
I called up Titebond to ask a few questions about the yellow glues, and
also asked about the urethane glues. They told me about an experiment
they did. They laminated up wood strips and made baseball bats using
the yellow and urethane glues. The urethane glues delaminated every
time while none of the yellow glues had that problem. I haven't trusted
the urethane glues with shock loads since then. I never tried their
experiment either.
robo hippy

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood?
FWIW I've been doing this for 20+ years, and feel 2 part epoxy is the only
way to go

for titebond or wood glues in general, the idea is to penetrate into the
wood,
using thin coat(s) and clamp with lots of pressure,
so you basically wind up with the wood "stuck" to the wood,

with metal, 'penetration' is not possible, so you want the wood bonded to
one side of the epoxy and the metal bonded to the other, use a wider gap,
less clamp pressure

CA is only good for bonding things that you don't want to stay together
for very long

HTH
Dale




I've been
highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my
stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps
from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I
have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II.

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?
Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the
Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit
with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see
someone you've just "read". : )

Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice.

Ruth and The General
http://www.torne-lignum.com

wrote:
I'm doing the Florida Symposium in January, why don't you
bring your wife down there to see my glasses?!? ; )

Ruth

Now who is flirting? )

Harry, I did say "bring your wife" so I'm not really flirting,
although Chuck is kind of cute! : o ............kidding, Mrs.
Chuck, just kidding!

Ruth and The General

Hi Ruth

I use epoxy, the glue advise I looked up recommends epoxy, the epoxy I
happen to use has a long working time 60 min. and a minimum 5 to 6 hour
curing time, all epoxies are not made equal as is the case with many things.

The epoxy I have is for gluing a wiring harness to metal and other
material for use in a hi-tech airplane and satellite application,
something like a location beacon, I got it because the epoxy was past
its exp. date.

Also the strength needed to keep the stopper from falling apart is so
small that I would think any glue would almost do.

You could also go the not dry wood route and make a tight fit, dry the
wood and it will never fall off, I would think.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum4.html

wrote:

Hi,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been
highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my
stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps
from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I
have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II.

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?
Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the
Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit
with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see
someone you've just "read". : )

Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice.

Ruth and The General
http://www.torne-lignum.com

wrote:

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?
Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

Thank you for that in-depth response. It really helped. I think
I'll just recommend Gorilla glue with the warning of too much does
foam.


Hi Ruth,

Chuck's message didn't make it to my ISP, so I can only reply to what
you replied...

I don't care for the polyurethane glues - like Gorilla Glue. The foaming
action will force the joint apart unless it's clamped -- and even then,
the foam will squeeze itself out as it cures and expands. If the joint
is overly loose in the slightest, the poly glues aren't strong because
the foam which fills the gap has very little strength. I'd much rather
use an epoxy; they do a fine job filling gaps and stay relatively
flexible to maintain the bond as the wood expands and contracts.

Epoxies come in all sorts of flavors with regard to curing time, though
they are all 2-step as far as I know. One can even mix in all sorts of
colorants to custom match a wood. For my turning projects, I usually use
a 5-minute formula so I can mix, spread, assemble and set aside for
15-30 minutes. (Not sure where they get the 5-minute time, but such is
life.) If I need longer working time, there are long-set formulas - I
use a System Three duo for those.

Why would you desire a long-set time?

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners,
Cascade Woodturners,
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Pour your end-grain sealer into a clean, wide-mouth
clothes detergent bottle. The lid makes a handy dipping container for
your brush and the leftovers will drain back into the bottle when you
recap the jug.

"dalecue" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood?
FWIW I've been doing this for 20+ years, and feel 2 part epoxy is the only
way to go

for titebond or wood glues in general, the idea is to penetrate into the
wood,
using thin coat(s) and clamp with lots of pressure,
so you basically wind up with the wood "stuck" to the wood,

with metal, 'penetration' is not possible, so you want the wood bonded to
one side of the epoxy and the metal bonded to the other, use a wider gap,
less clamp pressure

CA is only good for bonding things that you don't want to stay together
for very long

In reality, the way things hang together is by friction. Continuous
contiguous surfaces, if finely polished will actually do some influence
bonding at the atomic level. So a continuous film of glue is what you're
after, to make the surfaces exceptionally smooth.

http://www.thistothat.com/ is sort of fun, and has been pretty accurate.

Epoxies are the glues of choice in industry for bonding to metals.

Leo wrote: "Also the strength needed to keep the stopper from falling
apart is so
small that I would think any glue would almost do.

You could also go the not dry wood route and make a tight fit, dry the
wood and it will never fall off, I would think."


Thanks, Leo. Since you've ordered so many stoppers, I'm guessing you
know.
Personally I don't like messing with the foaming glues. You're right
about stoppers being so small an item, not to mention being used in a
diningroom not welding shop setting.

I did turn a stopper from green grape vine wood, it never cracked and
warped to a shape that made it more interesting. No one could figure
out how I turned such a curve!

Thanks for the response,
Ruth

Owen asked: "Why would you desire a long-set time? "


Hi Owen,

Sorry, I may have worded my original post wrong. I don't want a long
set time, but was rather asking if all epoxy had long set times.
Personally, I've never used epoxy. Tite Bond II (have just switched
to III) is what I use exclusively for wood to wood projects. A lot
of turners who bought my stoppers at the shows inquired as to epoxy vs
Tite Bond vs Gorilla and I had no personal experience with which to
respond intelligently. I hate to appear dumb! : )

Also I'm considering selling a glue in my booth at shows. I have some
exotic wood blanks and if I added glue, the turners could do "one stop
shopping". I can afford to do one glue and am looking for what the
majority would prefer.

Hope all is well with you.

Ruth
http://www.torne-lignum.com

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:46:14 -0800, Owen Lowe
wrote:

(My spastic ISP does the same thing to me, picking and choosing among
msgs, so I'm hoping if I give this a new header it'll get through.)

Hi Owen,

Let me address a couple of these issues. I don't aim to "convert"
you, but I've had great success with poly glues over the years and if
they are used within their parameters they are really effective.

I don't care for the polyurethane glues - like Gorilla Glue. The foaming
action will force the joint apart unless it's clamped

Absolutely true, which is why you have to be alert when you are gluing
pens together with it. But to be fair, what glue _don't_ you have to
clamp? The foaming action is one of the benefits of the glue, rather
than a liability. It is _supposed_ to foam to fill gaps and better
penetrate the surface of the two things being bonded.

-- and even then,
the foam will squeeze itself out as it cures and expands.

The glue will only foam out of a joint that is too loose or if you use
too much of it, but even then, is easily scraped off. Granted, it's a
bit messy, but the bond is worth it. And any glue will squeeze out of
a joint when you put them together. It's only a matter of when you
have to clean it off.

If the joint
is overly loose in the slightest, the poly glues aren't strong because
the foam which fills the gap has very little strength.

Sorry, that is absolutely untrue. I have used two different brands of
poly glue to make wooden barrettes. I attached the metal barrette
backs to the wood by simply pushing it into a puddle of the poly glue.
Ten years later, after exposure to alcohol- and who-knows-what-based
hair products, and hundreds of openings and closings, being flexed and
bent around my wife's mass of curly, Italian hair, the bonds are just
as strong as ever. The epoxy bonds I tried early on, however, have
cracked and some have failed.

The glue didn't foam up a la "The Blob" but rather just foamed
modestly at the surface. The amount that poly glues foam is directly
related to the amount of moisture present, both in the wood and in the
atmosphere.

Additionally, the barretes were often made of woods I laminated
together with poly glue and the finished thickness is no more than
1/8" on them, which means there is a 3" long bond that is only 1/8"
thick holding these two or more pieces of wood together.

Further, I have made turnings with mortise and tenon joints that were
somewhat less than "tight," shall we say. Joining those two pieces
together with anything other than a poly glue would have been iffy, at
best, because the tenon didn't bottom out in the mortise. However,
with the poly glue, as long as the side bond is fairly snug, the empty
space in the bottom will be filled with the foamed glue and will
absolutely provide some bond...certainly more bond than any brand of
white/yellow glue would have, and definitely more flexible than an
epoxy.

I'd much rather
use an epoxy; they do a fine job filling gaps and stay relatively
flexible to maintain the bond as the wood expands and contracts.

Well, we are talking about wood to metal, too, and "relatively
flexible" isn't always the ticket.. There can often be visible
movement in wood with changes in humidity, which doesn't effect metal
in the slightest. Further, poly glues are proven to provide an
excellent bond on oily exotic woods, without any prior surface
preparation. Is that true of epoxy? Don't you have to wipe it down
with acetone first?

I'm not saying epoxy is inferior, or that poly glue is superior in
all applications, but you don't have to mix poly glues, either. And
in order to get the gap filled, you have to overfill the joint,
squeezing out the excess and still have to clean up dribbles. No
better than the poly glue in that regard.

Epoxies come in all sorts of flavors with regard to curing time, though
they are all 2-step as far as I know. One can even mix in all sorts of
colorants to custom match a wood.

I don't know if you can color the poly glues or not, but the point is
to not see the glue anyhow. Polyurethane glue is made to bond, not to
be seen.

For my turning projects, I usually use
a 5-minute formula so I can mix, spread, assemble and set aside for
15-30 minutes.

Since I _have_ had bad experiences with epoxy bonds cracking and
failing, I would rather wait the couple of hours that are required to
get a decent bond with the poly and be sure of my bond. Again, that
is from my _personal_ experience with both of the products.

And I don't use poly for all gluing jobs. I also use CA glues, yellow
wood glues (Titebond II) and epoxies on occasion. But whenever I know
a piece is going to be under extreme stress, under water or exposed to
harsh conditions or things like detergents or alcohol, or I'm bonding
oily exotics or if I am bonding unlike materials, like metal-to-wood,
I always reach for the Gorilla Glue.

I'm not a salesman nor do I own stock in any of the poly glues, but I
do like to let people know about the effectiveness of a product that I
have had good experiences with. As with any new(er) product, there is
always a lot of misinformation floating around with regards to it (I
remember hearing, back in the mid-'60s, that the M-16 rifle could fire
one of its .223 slugs completely through a car, including the engine
block, bumper-to-bumper!!). I certainly don't hold my experiences up
as the final word on this or any other adhesive. I just want to set
the record straight as someone who has used and experimented with this
glue for at least 10 years.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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In article .com,
wrote:

Sorry, I may have worded my original post wrong. I don't want a long
set time, but was rather asking if all epoxy had long set times.
Personally, I've never used epoxy. Tite Bond II (have just switched
to III) is what I use exclusively for wood to wood projects. A lot
of turners who bought my stoppers at the shows inquired as to epoxy vs
Tite Bond vs Gorilla and I had no personal experience with which to
respond intelligently. I hate to appear dumb! : )

Also I'm considering selling a glue in my booth at shows. I have some
exotic wood blanks and if I added glue, the turners could do "one stop
shopping". I can afford to do one glue and am looking for what the
majority would prefer.

Good to hear you aren't looking for a long-set epoxy - it seems most
epoxies that are commonly available at the hardware store or home center
are of the short term cure variety.

As to small packets of epoxy, look up Hardman brand. Here are a couple
links:
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...7802&cls=6741&
par=&cat=1&sch=727&pfx=&lstBool=true

Cabela's seems to have a better quantity pricing for 24 at 75 cents ea:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...rd-item.jsp?_r
equestid=45188

All is well here on the left coast - things getting chilly back there in
PA?

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners,
Cascade Woodturners,
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Pour your end-grain sealer into a clean, wide-mouth
clothes detergent bottle. The lid makes a handy dipping container for
your brush and the leftovers will drain back into the bottle when you
recap the jug.

On 14 Nov 2005 08:34:55 -0800, wrote:

Hi,

Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been
highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my
stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps
from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I
have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II.

Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life?
Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time?

By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the
Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit
with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see
someone you've just "read". : )

Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice.

Ruth and The General
http://www.torne-lignum.com

Ruth...
Sort of a different application, but might help:

I tried gluing rare earth magnets to pegboard with TB III to hold lathe
chisels...

None of them held for long, they wanted to stay on the chisel...

As they break loose, I've been putting them back up with thick CA and none of
those have broken loose yet..

I also used CA to hold large magnets to plastic electrical boxes for remote
switches on the lathes and they hold up under a lot of movement and use.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

wrote in message
oups.com...
Leo wrote: "Also the strength needed to keep the stopper from falling
apart is so
small that I would think any glue would almost do.
=================================
Thanks, Leo. Since you've ordered so many stoppers, I'm guessing you
know.
Personally I don't like messing with the foaming glues. You're right
about stoppers being so small an item, not to mention being used in a
diningroom not welding shop setting.
=================================

Ruth,
One detail no one has mentioned so far is the prep process which is very
important with epoxy to metal adhesion. Any of your body shops will tell you
it's important to hqve a "tooth" for the epoxy (body filler) to hold on to.
To get this, you need something like 80 grit wet/dry paper (silicon
carbide), or a touch with a Dremel grinder. Just rough the surface so there
is no slick surface for the adhesive to slip on. When joining woods, there
is usually some penetration, even on tight grain woods, but that can't
happen with stainless steel.

HTH

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

dalecue wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

CA is only good for bonding things that you don't want to stay together
for very long

I have to laugh every time I see a statement like this. Probably 20
years ago, when I had my first .45 pistol (a Colt Gold Cup, for anyone
interested), the front site sheared off just below the level of the
slide, while I was firing a magazine of ball ammo. I took it to my
local gunsmith who reattached it with a _drop_ of Crazy Glue. This was
back in the days before "Jet," "Hot Shot" and all the other super-duper
brands that we hear are so much superior.

In any case, I was somewhat dubious, but took him at his word, paid my
$5 and left. I probably fired an additional 5000+ rounds through that
piece, many of them custom hotloads (200gr HC at about 1200fps) that I
carried for a defense round. I finally sold the piece 7 or 8 years
later, and at that time it still sported it's Crazy Glued front site.

FWIW...