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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Hi,
Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II. Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life? Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time? By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see someone you've just "read". : ) Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice. Ruth and The General http://www.torne-lignum.com |
#3
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Chuck,
Thank you for that in-depth response. It really helped. I think I'll just recommend Gorilla glue with the warning of too much does foam. As to you thinking "age being the factor" with the adhesion with Tite Bond II, if it broke loose after years, that would be reason to buy another stopper! : ) I'm fine with flirting................with your wife's permission, of course!!! Sunday I found my glasses with the stems I turned but I guess you didn't come back. I'm doing the Florida Symposium in January, why don't you bring your wife down there to see my glasses?!? ; ) Ruth http://www.torne-lignum.com "Carpe Lignum, Torne Lignum" |
#4
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Ruth, I have done several salt/pepper sets out of wood and all the
different mfg of the hardware suggest using CA on the little stainless steel top for the salt shaker.I have found various type of CA at my local hobby store, anywhere from liquid to a gel for thicker gaps. Hope this helps. wrote: Chuck, Thank you for that in-depth response. It really helped. I think I'll just recommend Gorilla glue with the warning of too much does foam. As to you thinking "age being the factor" with the adhesion with Tite Bond II, if it broke loose after years, that would be reason to buy another stopper! : ) I'm fine with flirting................with your wife's permission, of course!!! Sunday I found my glasses with the stems I turned but I guess you didn't come back. I'm doing the Florida Symposium in January, why don't you bring your wife down there to see my glasses?!? ; ) Ruth http://www.torne-lignum.com "Carpe Lignum, Torne Lignum" |
#6
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Harry, I did say "bring your wife" so I'm not really flirting,
although Chuck is kind of cute! : o ............kidding, Mrs. Chuck, just kidding! Ruth and The General |
#7
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
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#8
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Owen asked: "Why would you desire a long-set time? "
Hi Owen, Sorry, I may have worded my original post wrong. I don't want a long set time, but was rather asking if all epoxy had long set times. Personally, I've never used epoxy. Tite Bond II (have just switched to III) is what I use exclusively for wood to wood projects. A lot of turners who bought my stoppers at the shows inquired as to epoxy vs Tite Bond vs Gorilla and I had no personal experience with which to respond intelligently. I hate to appear dumb! : ) Also I'm considering selling a glue in my booth at shows. I have some exotic wood blanks and if I added glue, the turners could do "one stop shopping". I can afford to do one glue and am looking for what the majority would prefer. Hope all is well with you. Ruth http://www.torne-lignum.com |
#9
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
In article .com,
wrote: Sorry, I may have worded my original post wrong. I don't want a long set time, but was rather asking if all epoxy had long set times. Personally, I've never used epoxy. Tite Bond II (have just switched to III) is what I use exclusively for wood to wood projects. A lot of turners who bought my stoppers at the shows inquired as to epoxy vs Tite Bond vs Gorilla and I had no personal experience with which to respond intelligently. I hate to appear dumb! : ) Also I'm considering selling a glue in my booth at shows. I have some exotic wood blanks and if I added glue, the turners could do "one stop shopping". I can afford to do one glue and am looking for what the majority would prefer. Good to hear you aren't looking for a long-set epoxy - it seems most epoxies that are commonly available at the hardware store or home center are of the short term cure variety. As to small packets of epoxy, look up Hardman brand. Here are a couple links: http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...7802&cls=6741& par=&cat=1&sch=727&pfx=&lstBool=true Cabela's seems to have a better quantity pricing for 24 at 75 cents ea: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...rd-item.jsp?_r equestid=45188 All is well here on the left coast - things getting chilly back there in PA? -- Owen Lowe Northwest Woodturners, Cascade Woodturners, Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild ___ Tips fer Turnin': Pour your end-grain sealer into a clean, wide-mouth clothes detergent bottle. The lid makes a handy dipping container for your brush and the leftovers will drain back into the bottle when you recap the jug. |
#10
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For Owen - Gluing Wood to Metal?
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:46:14 -0800, Owen Lowe
wrote: (My spastic ISP does the same thing to me, picking and choosing among msgs, so I'm hoping if I give this a new header it'll get through.) Hi Owen, Let me address a couple of these issues. I don't aim to "convert" you, but I've had great success with poly glues over the years and if they are used within their parameters they are really effective. I don't care for the polyurethane glues - like Gorilla Glue. The foaming action will force the joint apart unless it's clamped Absolutely true, which is why you have to be alert when you are gluing pens together with it. But to be fair, what glue _don't_ you have to clamp? The foaming action is one of the benefits of the glue, rather than a liability. It is _supposed_ to foam to fill gaps and better penetrate the surface of the two things being bonded. -- and even then, the foam will squeeze itself out as it cures and expands. The glue will only foam out of a joint that is too loose or if you use too much of it, but even then, is easily scraped off. Granted, it's a bit messy, but the bond is worth it. And any glue will squeeze out of a joint when you put them together. It's only a matter of when you have to clean it off. If the joint is overly loose in the slightest, the poly glues aren't strong because the foam which fills the gap has very little strength. Sorry, that is absolutely untrue. I have used two different brands of poly glue to make wooden barrettes. I attached the metal barrette backs to the wood by simply pushing it into a puddle of the poly glue. Ten years later, after exposure to alcohol- and who-knows-what-based hair products, and hundreds of openings and closings, being flexed and bent around my wife's mass of curly, Italian hair, the bonds are just as strong as ever. The epoxy bonds I tried early on, however, have cracked and some have failed. The glue didn't foam up a la "The Blob" but rather just foamed modestly at the surface. The amount that poly glues foam is directly related to the amount of moisture present, both in the wood and in the atmosphere. Additionally, the barretes were often made of woods I laminated together with poly glue and the finished thickness is no more than 1/8" on them, which means there is a 3" long bond that is only 1/8" thick holding these two or more pieces of wood together. Further, I have made turnings with mortise and tenon joints that were somewhat less than "tight," shall we say. Joining those two pieces together with anything other than a poly glue would have been iffy, at best, because the tenon didn't bottom out in the mortise. However, with the poly glue, as long as the side bond is fairly snug, the empty space in the bottom will be filled with the foamed glue and will absolutely provide some bond...certainly more bond than any brand of white/yellow glue would have, and definitely more flexible than an epoxy. I'd much rather use an epoxy; they do a fine job filling gaps and stay relatively flexible to maintain the bond as the wood expands and contracts. Well, we are talking about wood to metal, too, and "relatively flexible" isn't always the ticket.. There can often be visible movement in wood with changes in humidity, which doesn't effect metal in the slightest. Further, poly glues are proven to provide an excellent bond on oily exotic woods, without any prior surface preparation. Is that true of epoxy? Don't you have to wipe it down with acetone first? I'm not saying epoxy is inferior, or that poly glue is superior in all applications, but you don't have to mix poly glues, either. And in order to get the gap filled, you have to overfill the joint, squeezing out the excess and still have to clean up dribbles. No better than the poly glue in that regard. Epoxies come in all sorts of flavors with regard to curing time, though they are all 2-step as far as I know. One can even mix in all sorts of colorants to custom match a wood. I don't know if you can color the poly glues or not, but the point is to not see the glue anyhow. Polyurethane glue is made to bond, not to be seen. For my turning projects, I usually use a 5-minute formula so I can mix, spread, assemble and set aside for 15-30 minutes. Since I _have_ had bad experiences with epoxy bonds cracking and failing, I would rather wait the couple of hours that are required to get a decent bond with the poly and be sure of my bond. Again, that is from my _personal_ experience with both of the products. And I don't use poly for all gluing jobs. I also use CA glues, yellow wood glues (Titebond II) and epoxies on occasion. But whenever I know a piece is going to be under extreme stress, under water or exposed to harsh conditions or things like detergents or alcohol, or I'm bonding oily exotics or if I am bonding unlike materials, like metal-to-wood, I always reach for the Gorilla Glue. I'm not a salesman nor do I own stock in any of the poly glues, but I do like to let people know about the effectiveness of a product that I have had good experiences with. As with any new(er) product, there is always a lot of misinformation floating around with regards to it (I remember hearing, back in the mid-'60s, that the M-16 rifle could fire one of its .223 slugs completely through a car, including the engine block, bumper-to-bumper!!). I certainly don't hold my experiences up as the final word on this or any other adhesive. I just want to set the record straight as someone who has used and experimented with this glue for at least 10 years. -- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. September 11, 2001 - Never Forget ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#11
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Chuck,
I called up Titebond to ask a few questions about the yellow glues, and also asked about the urethane glues. They told me about an experiment they did. They laminated up wood strips and made baseball bats using the yellow and urethane glues. The urethane glues delaminated every time while none of the yellow glues had that problem. I haven't trusted the urethane glues with shock loads since then. I never tried their experiment either. robo hippy |
#12
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
wrote:
Hi, Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II. Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life? Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time? By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see someone you've just "read". : ) Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice. I didn't used to think that Titebond and the like were suitable for metal. Then I tried to pick the Titebond II squeeze-out off of my brand new Besseys. I wouldn't trust it for anything life-threatening but it does stick remarkably well. If it seems to be sticking well to your stoppers I wouldn't worry about it. Ruth and The General http://www.torne-lignum.com -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#13
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
wrote in message oups.com... Hi, Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? FWIW I've been doing this for 20+ years, and feel 2 part epoxy is the only way to go for titebond or wood glues in general, the idea is to penetrate into the wood, using thin coat(s) and clamp with lots of pressure, so you basically wind up with the wood "stuck" to the wood, with metal, 'penetration' is not possible, so you want the wood bonded to one side of the epoxy and the metal bonded to the other, use a wider gap, less clamp pressure CA is only good for bonding things that you don't want to stay together for very long HTH Dale I've been highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II. Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life? Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time? By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see someone you've just "read". : ) Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice. Ruth and The General http://www.torne-lignum.com |
#14
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
"dalecue" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Hi, Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? FWIW I've been doing this for 20+ years, and feel 2 part epoxy is the only way to go for titebond or wood glues in general, the idea is to penetrate into the wood, using thin coat(s) and clamp with lots of pressure, so you basically wind up with the wood "stuck" to the wood, with metal, 'penetration' is not possible, so you want the wood bonded to one side of the epoxy and the metal bonded to the other, use a wider gap, less clamp pressure CA is only good for bonding things that you don't want to stay together for very long In reality, the way things hang together is by friction. Continuous contiguous surfaces, if finely polished will actually do some influence bonding at the atomic level. So a continuous film of glue is what you're after, to make the surfaces exceptionally smooth. http://www.thistothat.com/ is sort of fun, and has been pretty accurate. Epoxies are the glues of choice in industry for bonding to metals. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
dalecue wrote: wrote in message oups.com... CA is only good for bonding things that you don't want to stay together for very long I have to laugh every time I see a statement like this. Probably 20 years ago, when I had my first .45 pistol (a Colt Gold Cup, for anyone interested), the front site sheared off just below the level of the slide, while I was firing a magazine of ball ammo. I took it to my local gunsmith who reattached it with a _drop_ of Crazy Glue. This was back in the days before "Jet," "Hot Shot" and all the other super-duper brands that we hear are so much superior. In any case, I was somewhat dubious, but took him at his word, paid my $5 and left. I probably fired an additional 5000+ rounds through that piece, many of them custom hotloads (200gr HC at about 1200fps) that I carried for a defense round. I finally sold the piece 7 or 8 years later, and at that time it still sported it's Crazy Glued front site. FWIW... |
#16
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Hi Ruth
I use epoxy, the glue advise I looked up recommends epoxy, the epoxy I happen to use has a long working time 60 min. and a minimum 5 to 6 hour curing time, all epoxies are not made equal as is the case with many things. The epoxy I have is for gluing a wiring harness to metal and other material for use in a hi-tech airplane and satellite application, something like a location beacon, I got it because the epoxy was past its exp. date. Also the strength needed to keep the stopper from falling apart is so small that I would think any glue would almost do. You could also go the not dry wood route and make a tight fit, dry the wood and it will never fall off, I would think. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum4.html wrote: Hi, Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II. Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life? Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time? By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see someone you've just "read". : ) Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice. Ruth and The General http://www.torne-lignum.com |
#17
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
Leo wrote: "Also the strength needed to keep the stopper from falling
apart is so small that I would think any glue would almost do. You could also go the not dry wood route and make a tight fit, dry the wood and it will never fall off, I would think." Thanks, Leo. Since you've ordered so many stoppers, I'm guessing you know. Personally I don't like messing with the foaming glues. You're right about stoppers being so small an item, not to mention being used in a diningroom not welding shop setting. I did turn a stopper from green grape vine wood, it never cracked and warped to a shape that made it more interesting. No one could figure out how I turned such a curve! Thanks for the response, Ruth |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
wrote in message oups.com... Leo wrote: "Also the strength needed to keep the stopper from falling apart is so small that I would think any glue would almost do. ================================= Thanks, Leo. Since you've ordered so many stoppers, I'm guessing you know. Personally I don't like messing with the foaming glues. You're right about stoppers being so small an item, not to mention being used in a diningroom not welding shop setting. ================================= Ruth, One detail no one has mentioned so far is the prep process which is very important with epoxy to metal adhesion. Any of your body shops will tell you it's important to hqve a "tooth" for the epoxy (body filler) to hold on to. To get this, you need something like 80 grit wet/dry paper (silicon carbide), or a touch with a Dremel grinder. Just rough the surface so there is no slick surface for the adhesive to slip on. When joining woods, there is usually some penetration, even on tight grain woods, but that can't happen with stainless steel. HTH Ken Moon Webberville, TX. |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Gluing Wood to Metal?
On 14 Nov 2005 08:34:55 -0800, wrote:
Hi, Is there a preference of glue when doing metal to wood? I've been highly recommending Tite Bond II as a bond for woodturnings on my stainless steel bottle stoppers. At the show in NC one of the reps from another booth said he would use either epoxy or Gorilla glue. I have never had one of my stoppers come loose using Tite Bond II. Doesn't Gorilla glue foam up, and doesn't it have a shorter shelf life? Does all epoxy need to be 2-step and have a short working time? By the way, I want to thank all of you who stopped by my booth at the Albany, Ohio or NC show to introduce yourself and it was nice to visit with some old friends from this group. It really is nice to see someone you've just "read". : ) Thanks for opinions, suggestions and advice. Ruth and The General http://www.torne-lignum.com Ruth... Sort of a different application, but might help: I tried gluing rare earth magnets to pegboard with TB III to hold lathe chisels... None of them held for long, they wanted to stay on the chisel... As they break loose, I've been putting them back up with thick CA and none of those have broken loose yet.. I also used CA to hold large magnets to plastic electrical boxes for remote switches on the lathes and they hold up under a lot of movement and use.. YMMV mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
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