Hello all,

I've been playing around a little with making some small turned boxes
with lids, and while I've had some sucess, there are also a number of
things I just haven't figured out yet.

First is blank orientation- I've been turning cherry from a small
(6-7" dia.) log I found as deadfall, and the sapwood is awfully soft,
so my first inclination is to rough it out by setting the spur right
in the center of the growth rings, and work from there- but when I've
tried this, it has a tendancy to crack the piece when hollowing
(usually after a good catch) and it's really hard to carve into that
end grain without knocking the blank out of true. Is this just the
price a guy pays for hollowing end grain, or is it likely to be a
problem with my technique or the tool I am using? (I usually use a
1/4" spindle gouge with slightly swept-back wings)

When I turn the blank the other way, with the spur set into the face
grain, the hollowing is a lot easier, but I end up with very prominent
annual rings on either side of the piece. Sometimes that works, but
it's not that great on a lot of pieces. If I had some larger blanks,
I'm sure I could cut the pith out and avoid some of that, but right
now I'm just playing with what I've got.

The next problem comes when it's time to sand the interior of the
form- I've been trying to turn them with small openings (.75"-1"), as
much to develop my technique as anything else, but it's tough getting
sandpaper in the opening without twisting my finger but good. Any
ideas on getting that inside smooth? Would doing something a little
off the wall like placing a few river stones inside and spinning it on
the lathe for a while do the trick, or is that just asking for a
wooden missile full of rocks to fly across the room? (I haven't tried
it yet, which I why I ask!)

And then the final one- and the most important right this moment.
I've got a nice little hollow form about 5" tall and 4" in diameter
(soaking in LDD, Leif) that I'm pretty happy with- all except for the
foot, that is. I used the bottom of the foot as a flat reference for
my chuck, but as the piece developed, the form got thinner and more
elegant, while the foot stayed how it was. It might look okay parted
off, but I'm afraid the hollowed area may be a little too deep for
that, so I need to shape it, preferably without mangling my gouge on
the jaws of the chuck. I don't have the necessary jaws to grip the ID
of the opening, and the opening is too large to use the spur center.
Any ideas on mounting this? I was thinking that sliding it over a
taper held in the chuck with the tailstock holding it in place might
work, but I'd like to avoid having a little hole on the bottom of the
piece.

As always, suggestions are very welcome!

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

I've been playing around a little with making some small turned boxes
with lids, and while I've had some sucess, there are also a number of
things I just haven't figured out yet.

First is blank orientation- I've been turning cherry from a small
(6-7" dia.) log I found as deadfall, and the sapwood is awfully soft,
so my first inclination is to rough it out by setting the spur right
in the center of the growth rings, and work from there- but when I've
tried this, it has a tendancy to crack the piece when hollowing
(usually after a good catch) and it's really hard to carve into that
end grain without knocking the blank out of true. Is this just the
price a guy pays for hollowing end grain, or is it likely to be a
problem with my technique or the tool I am using? (I usually use a
1/4" spindle gouge with slightly swept-back wings)

SNIP...................
====================

First suggestion would be to get the Chris Stott book on making small boxes.
Until then, Try this:
1 Turn your blank to a cylinder between centers, spindle style
2 Part off to give yourself a square shoulder for your chuck
3 Mount your blank in the chuck with the part to be the bottom in the chuck
4 Shape the portion that will be your lid
4a Make a shallow cut with your parting tool to set your lid tenon to later
fit into the box
5 Part off the lid
6 Using your small gouge or drill, make a center starter hole (a large
Forstner drill in a tailstock mounted Jacobs chuck works well, but be sure
not to drill too deep or you'll end up with a fancy toilet paper roller {:-)
!) Your small gouge can be used like gun drill by pushing straight into the
end grain.
7 Finish hollowing with a fingernail gouge or scraper to the final size that
will match the lid tenon
8 Sand and apply finish

There are other details, like finishing the inside of the lid, precision
fitting the lid for vacuum fit , etc., but you can pick that up as you go
along.

Hope this helps.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
I've been playing around a little with making some small turned boxes
with lids, and while I've had some sucess, there are also a number of
things I just haven't figured out yet.


You have to plan ahead, no doubt. For instance, if working from green to
get something which demands a precision fit, you have to turn, dry, turn.
With the pith in, survival nods toward thin, which isn't really compatable
with TDT, so you make it thin in the bottom and what will become the top,
with thicker walls. Then you have to dry it down slowly to hold the end
grain at the same MC as the walls. Your initial hollow can be with whatever
gives you comfort. I like pointed gouges with long wings, you may prefer
less grab and use your mild fingernail or one of the ring/hook tools.
Scrapers work, too, but they're taking as big a bite as the point gouge on a
duller face, so use a small scraper if you're catching.

You also have to make your hold over/under size, because it will distort.
You may then take advantage of the fact that end grain will keep the top and
bottom pretty well parallel as you chuck inside, turn for your bottom hold,
and then procede with final dimensioning. For your narrow mouth hollow you
can make a shouldered taper to help with recentering. Of course your prior
planning left the original spur center mark underneath to help you?

One thing I've found with the pith is that if it's contained within a slope,
it makes it through drying better than if it's within a flat area.

Prometheus wrote:

Hello all,

I've been playing around a little with making some small turned boxes
with lids, and while I've had some sucess, there are also a number of
things I just haven't figured out yet.


The next problem comes when it's time to sand the interior of the
form- I've been trying to turn them with small openings (.75"-1"), as
much to develop my technique as anything else, but it's tough getting
sandpaper in the opening without twisting my finger but good. Any
ideas on getting that inside smooth?

I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

Would doing something a little
off the wall like placing a few river stones inside and spinning it on
the lathe for a while do the trick, or is that just asking for a
wooden missile full of rocks to fly across the room? (I haven't tried
it yet, which I why I ask!)

I think the rocks would arrange themselves around the perimeter and stay
in one place, unless you have an extremely slow lathe speed, then it
would be an extremely slow go to smooth out the wood.

And then the final one- and the most important right this moment.
I've got a nice little hollow form about 5" tall and 4" in diameter
(soaking in LDD, Leif) that I'm pretty happy with- all except for the
foot, that is. I used the bottom of the foot as a flat reference for
my chuck, but as the piece developed, the form got thinner and more
elegant, while the foot stayed how it was. It might look okay parted
off, but I'm afraid the hollowed area may be a little too deep for
that, so I need to shape it, preferably without mangling my gouge on
the jaws of the chuck. I don't have the necessary jaws to grip the ID
of the opening, and the opening is too large to use the spur center.
Any ideas on mounting this? I was thinking that sliding it over a
taper held in the chuck with the tailstock holding it in place might
work, but I'd like to avoid having a little hole on the bottom of the
piece.

I often turn a jig that fits inside the hollow and also is large enough
on the other end to fit in the chuck. Make it a hair small and put a
strip of paper towel down the side, over the end and back down the other
side to make a snug fit. This works great for a piece with straight
inside walls, and holds steadier that a cone would. You could also turn
a cone to use as a jam chuck. As much as possible I make all my jigs and
glue blocks so that they fit in the chuck.

A round piece of plywood about 3/4 in. diameter with a small hole in the
center will fit on the point of my tailstock center and I use that to
hold an item without punching a hole in it.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Be nice to your kids. They'll choose
your nursing home.





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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:46:08 GMT, "Ken Moon" wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
Hello all,

I've been playing around a little with making some small turned boxes
with lids, and while I've had some sucess, there are also a number of
things I just haven't figured out yet.

First is blank orientation- I've been turning cherry from a small
(6-7" dia.) log I found as deadfall, and the sapwood is awfully soft,
so my first inclination is to rough it out by setting the spur right
in the center of the growth rings, and work from there- but when I've
tried this, it has a tendancy to crack the piece when hollowing
(usually after a good catch) and it's really hard to carve into that
end grain without knocking the blank out of true. Is this just the
price a guy pays for hollowing end grain, or is it likely to be a
problem with my technique or the tool I am using? (I usually use a
1/4" spindle gouge with slightly swept-back wings)

SNIP...................
====================

First suggestion would be to get the Chris Stott book on making small boxes.
Until then, Try this:
1 Turn your blank to a cylinder between centers, spindle style
2 Part off to give yourself a square shoulder for your chuck
3 Mount your blank in the chuck with the part to be the bottom in the chuck
4 Shape the portion that will be your lid
4a Make a shallow cut with your parting tool to set your lid tenon to later
fit into the box
5 Part off the lid
6 Using your small gouge or drill, make a center starter hole (a large
Forstner drill in a tailstock mounted Jacobs chuck works well, but be sure
not to drill too deep or you'll end up with a fancy toilet paper roller {:-)
!) Your small gouge can be used like gun drill by pushing straight into the
end grain.
7 Finish hollowing with a fingernail gouge or scraper to the final size that
will match the lid tenon
8 Sand and apply finish

There are other details, like finishing the inside of the lid, precision
fitting the lid for vacuum fit , etc., but you can pick that up as you go
along.

Hope this helps.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

Ken.. I've made a LOT of boxes over the years, but the above is a great way to
tell others how to do it....
I'm printing it out and adding it to my mentor list..
Mac
03 Tahoe Widelite 26GT Travel Trailer
replaced 1958 Hilite tent trailer
99 Dodge Ram QQ 2wd - 5.9L, auto, 3:55 gears

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross wrote:


I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

A variation of your dowel that works well for me is the roll ends of wet/dry
paper from Klingspor's http://www.woodworkingshop.com
(Bargain bin/roll ends/turners box?)
It's very stiff backed and will roll up to the size needed to either run it in
and out of the box opening or wrap it around a dowel or chunk of closet rod and
get a good smooth "bore"..
Mac
03 Tahoe Widelite 26GT Travel Trailer
replaced 1958 Hilite tent trailer
99 Dodge Ram QQ 2wd - 5.9L, auto, 3:55 gears

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:46:08 GMT, "Ken Moon"
wrote:

====================

First suggestion would be to get the Chris Stott book on making small boxes.

Will do.

Until then, Try this:
1 Turn your blank to a cylinder between centers, spindle style
2 Part off to give yourself a square shoulder for your chuck
3 Mount your blank in the chuck with the part to be the bottom in the chuck
4 Shape the portion that will be your lid
4a Make a shallow cut with your parting tool to set your lid tenon to later
fit into the box
5 Part off the lid
6 Using your small gouge or drill, make a center starter hole (a large
Forstner drill in a tailstock mounted Jacobs chuck works well, but be sure
not to drill too deep or you'll end up with a fancy toilet paper roller {:-)
!) Your small gouge can be used like gun drill by pushing straight into the
end grain.
7 Finish hollowing with a fingernail gouge or scraper to the final size that
will match the lid tenon
8 Sand and apply finish

Looks pretty similar to what I've tried so far- but it's nice to have
it laid out like that to see that I wasn't way off-base!

There are other details, like finishing the inside of the lid, precision
fitting the lid for vacuum fit , etc., but you can pick that up as you go
along.

Hope this helps.

Sure does- as noted above, it's pretty much the technique I was using,
but it's always nice to know that I'm not doing things the hard way!

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:21:24 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:

You have to plan ahead, no doubt. For instance, if working from green to
get something which demands a precision fit, you have to turn, dry, turn.
With the pith in, survival nods toward thin, which isn't really compatable
with TDT,

Sorry, but what does TDT stand for? I'm guessing that it needs to be
thinner in the bottom and top when hollowing into end grain, to keep
the pith as thin as possible?

so you make it thin in the bottom and what will become the top,
with thicker walls. Then you have to dry it down slowly to hold the end
grain at the same MC as the walls.

Does applying the finish in the same session do the trick, or do I
need to try something else, like the paper bag full of shavings
method?

Your initial hollow can be with whatever
gives you comfort. I like pointed gouges with long wings, you may prefer
less grab and use your mild fingernail or one of the ring/hook tools.
Scrapers work, too, but they're taking as big a bite as the point gouge on a
duller face, so use a small scraper if you're catching.

You also have to make your hold over/under size, because it will distort.
You may then take advantage of the fact that end grain will keep the top and
bottom pretty well parallel as you chuck inside, turn for your bottom hold,
and then procede with final dimensioning. For your narrow mouth hollow you
can make a shouldered taper to help with recentering. Of course your prior
planning left the original spur center mark underneath to help you?

I'm in luck there, at any rate! The original mark is still intact.

One thing I've found with the pith is that if it's contained within a slope,
it makes it through drying better than if it's within a flat area.

Do you mean roughing the blank slightly off-center to begin with, to
keep the pith oriented at an angle, or just making sure that the
exposed pith is on an angled feature of the piece? Come to think of
it, either may work- right?

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

There's the bit I was looking for! I kept trying to hold paper in
place with spray adhesive, but it wasn't strong enough. The slit
should be just what the doctor ordered. Should have thought of that
myself!

I think the rocks would arrange themselves around the perimeter and stay
in one place, unless you have an extremely slow lathe speed, then it
would be an extremely slow go to smooth out the wood.

I think you're right there, now that you mention it. I was thinking
of a rock tumbler, but they don't move that fast!

I often turn a jig that fits inside the hollow and also is large enough
on the other end to fit in the chuck. Make it a hair small and put a
strip of paper towel down the side, over the end and back down the other
side to make a snug fit. This works great for a piece with straight
inside walls, and holds steadier that a cone would. You could also turn
a cone to use as a jam chuck. As much as possible I make all my jigs and
glue blocks so that they fit in the chuck.

Not a bad idea. I may have to go with the cone on this one, as the
hollowed area is not straight, but follows the outside curve, so it's
much wider inside than it is at the mouth.

A round piece of plywood about 3/4 in. diameter with a small hole in the
center will fit on the point of my tailstock center and I use that to
hold an item without punching a hole in it.

Another good one. Thanks (to everyone) for the tips! Finally get a
real weekend this week (no OT), so I'll be able to put in some quality
time on this.

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:27:25 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross wrote:


I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

A variation of your dowel that works well for me is the roll ends of wet/dry
paper from Klingspor's http://www.woodworkingshop.com
(Bargain bin/roll ends/turners box?)
It's very stiff backed and will roll up to the size needed to either run it in
and out of the box opening or wrap it around a dowel or chunk of closet rod and
get a good smooth "bore"..

Looks like the price is right, too. Is that really 20 *pounds* of
sandpaper? That ought to keep me busy for a while!

Mac
03 Tahoe Widelite 26GT Travel Trailer
replaced 1958 Hilite tent trailer
99 Dodge Ram QQ 2wd - 5.9L, auto, 3:55 gears

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:27:16 -0500, Prometheus put fingers to keyboard and
said:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:21:24 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:

You have to plan ahead, no doubt. For instance, if working from green to
get something which demands a precision fit, you have to turn, dry, turn.
With the pith in, survival nods toward thin, which isn't really compatable
with TDT,

Sorry, but what does TDT stand for?

Turn, Dry, Turn

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:36:16 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:27:25 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross wrote:


I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

A variation of your dowel that works well for me is the roll ends of wet/dry
paper from Klingspor's http://www.woodworkingshop.com
(Bargain bin/roll ends/turners box?)
It's very stiff backed and will roll up to the size needed to either run it in
and out of the box opening or wrap it around a dowel or chunk of closet rod and
get a good smooth "bore"..

Looks like the price is right, too. Is that really 20 *pounds* of
sandpaper? That ought to keep me busy for a while!

yep.. George turned me onto them about 6 months ago, so I bought the bargain
box.. not expecting much except good paper.. I was expecting a lot of little
rolls in different sizes and stuff.. like scraps..

What I got was 4 HUGE rolls of about 3" wide wet/dry paper with a very stiff
backing... in 120, 150, 180 & 400 grit...
They're probably about 12" in diameter, so I hung them over the lathe on a pipe
clamp, so I can roll off what I need... I don't even cut this stuff, just roll
off what I need, bend it in half and snap it off.. really convenient!

I turn every night and quite a bit during the day, and my wife sands a lot for
her pyrography, and we're maybe 1/3 of the way through the rolls.. the stuff
lasts forever!



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but what does TDT stand for? I'm guessing that it needs to be
thinner in the bottom and top when hollowing into end grain, to keep
the pith as thin as possible?


Turn,dry, turn. The end grain area is the fastest to lose, but also the
easiest to gain water, so you want to give it the least "hold-on" help. It
pulls against something else, so don't give it too much to pull against, and
it may not pull apart.

Does applying the finish in the same session do the trick, or do I
need to try something else, like the paper bag full of shavings
method?


Applying a finish does not dry the piece. It may slow moisture loss, but
when the piece gets below the FSP (Fiber Saturation Point), the cells walls
will thin and the piece shrink. Not conducive to good fits. Drying it
slowly in a bag, newsprint, or such is your money move. Shavings have
lignin, and may promote mold.


Do you mean roughing the blank slightly off-center to begin with, to
keep the pith oriented at an angle, or just making sure that the
exposed pith is on an angled feature of the piece? Come to think of
it, either may work- right?

It's the don't give much to pull against move all over again. With the pith
located in a sloped or curved area of the wall, it has less to grab below,
because there isn't enough continuous fiber across the grain. Little loss
(1%) of dimension along the grain.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

There's the bit I was looking for! I kept trying to hold paper in
place with spray adhesive, but it wasn't strong enough. The slit
should be just what the doctor ordered. Should have thought of that
myself!


Use a sanding sponge gripped in a haemostat. Just don't put your fingers
through the holes, in case you get a grab and twist.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:46:00 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

There's the bit I was looking for! I kept trying to hold paper in
place with spray adhesive, but it wasn't strong enough. The slit
should be just what the doctor ordered. Should have thought of that
myself!


Use a sanding sponge gripped in a haemostat. Just don't put your fingers
through the holes, in case you get a grab and twist.

or, if you're not in George's line of work, needle nose pliers..

I've also used some of my cheapo HF sanding drums, too.. (hand held)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:04:00 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:46:00 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

I sometimes use a short piece of dowel with a slit sawed across the end
about 2 inches deep. A 2 inch strip of sandpaper slid into the slit and
wrapped around the dowel can sand the interior without risking a digit.

There's the bit I was looking for! I kept trying to hold paper in
place with spray adhesive, but it wasn't strong enough. The slit
should be just what the doctor ordered. Should have thought of that
myself!


Use a sanding sponge gripped in a haemostat. Just don't put your fingers
through the holes, in case you get a grab and twist.

or, if you're not in George's line of work, needle nose pliers..

I've also used some of my cheapo HF sanding drums, too.. (hand held)

I tried out the dowel method, and that seemed to be a winner, though
I'll keep the other suggestions in mind. I can see the haemostat
coming in pretty handy on the inside of a tight curve where a dowel
might not fit.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:40 -0400, Bruce Bowler
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:27:16 -0500, Prometheus put fingers to keyboard and
said:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:21:24 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:

You have to plan ahead, no doubt. For instance, if working from green to
get something which demands a precision fit, you have to turn, dry, turn.
With the pith in, survival nods toward thin, which isn't really compatable
with TDT,

Sorry, but what does TDT stand for?

Turn, Dry, Turn

Got ya. The piece I finished up tonight is going to have a lid made
of a contrasting wood, so I just turned it really thin (about
1/4"-3/16" throughout, and as thin as I dared in the area with the
pith) and finished it. Was starting to have some minor cracking, but
I spun that sucker fast and hard, while sanding it until it was close
to smoking, so I'm hoping that that minor cracking will be all that
happens- if I'm lucky, it'll just be visual interest for the piece.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:00:00 -0700, mac davis
wrote:


Looks like the price is right, too. Is that really 20 *pounds* of
sandpaper? That ought to keep me busy for a while!

yep.. George turned me onto them about 6 months ago, so I bought the bargain
box.. not expecting much except good paper.. I was expecting a lot of little
rolls in different sizes and stuff.. like scraps..

What I got was 4 HUGE rolls of about 3" wide wet/dry paper with a very stiff
backing... in 120, 150, 180 & 400 grit...
They're probably about 12" in diameter, so I hung them over the lathe on a pipe
clamp, so I can roll off what I need... I don't even cut this stuff, just roll
off what I need, bend it in half and snap it off.. really convenient!

That sounds perfect- the order is going out tomorrow, I think.

I turn every night and quite a bit during the day, and my wife sands a lot for
her pyrography, and we're maybe 1/3 of the way through the rolls.. the stuff
lasts forever!

Maybe I can throw away my big box of "almost still good" sandpaper
scraps I keep under the lathe once I get that stuff. I was really
starting to really scrape bottom tonight- finished off the piece with
a bit of 400 grit that was about 60% covered in spilled shellac.

I'm sure my wife'd like it too- she's a pyrographer and scroll sawyer
as well.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:44:51 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .

Does applying the finish in the same session do the trick, or do I
need to try something else, like the paper bag full of shavings
method?


Applying a finish does not dry the piece. It may slow moisture loss, but
when the piece gets below the FSP (Fiber Saturation Point), the cells walls
will thin and the piece shrink. Not conducive to good fits. Drying it
slowly in a bag, newsprint, or such is your money move. Shavings have
lignin, and may promote mold.

Any good rules of thumb for drying times:thickness? I know with
lumber it's about 1 year:1 inch, but that seems like a lot with a
small hollowed peice.


It's the don't give much to pull against move all over again. With the pith
located in a sloped or curved area of the wall, it has less to grab below,
because there isn't enough continuous fiber across the grain. Little loss
(1%) of dimension along the grain.

Good deal- That's what I've got going, but it was more for aestetic
reasons to begin with.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:44:51 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:
..

Any good rules of thumb for drying times:thickness? I know with
lumber it's about 1 year:1 inch, but that seems like a lot with a
small hollowed peice.


It's the don't give much to pull against move all over again. With the
pith
located in a sloped or curved area of the wall, it has less to grab below,
because there isn't enough continuous fiber across the grain. Little loss
(1%) of dimension along the grain.

Good deal- That's what I've got going, but it was more for aestetic
reasons to begin with.



Well, it's _not_ an inch per year, as the boys at Madison will be pleased to
tell you, http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/simps01b.pdf and in
the free downloadable wood handbook. Then there's the fact that end grain
loses at ten times the face grain rate, and a whole bunch of other neat
things.

Further, wood once dry gains moisture along with rising relative humidity,
which is the problem with tight-fitting lids. Weigh your piece, check it
every three or four days until it loses no weight for two checks, and it's
as dry as it will get for the present conditions.

"mac davis" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:46:00 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

SNIP...............
Use a sanding sponge gripped in a haemostat. Just don't put your fingers
through the holes, in case you get a grab and twist.

or, if you're not in George's line of work, needle nose pliers..

I've also used some of my cheapo HF sanding drums, too.. (hand held)
==============
Mac,
You don't have to be an EMT like George to have access to hemostats. Do a
Goole on "hemostats" and "forceps" to get a whole new world of tools you
didn't even know you needed, and at prices under $5.00 you can't afford not
to have at least 1 or 2 in your tool box. Hemostats in straight and curved
shape and in lengths from 4 inches up to about 12 inches will become
indespensable (sp?) after you once use them. The ability to lock them closed
is a great advantage over needle nosed pliers. There's also a design called
ring forceps that will hold buffs better than the regular hemostats. You
might also look at picking up some scapels while you're on a medical supply
site. They're an excellent companion to carving tools or your Exacto set.
When you think about it, surgeons are doing work similar to ours, working
down inside cavities, so they've designed a lot of tools we can adapt.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:07:36 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:40 -0400, Bruce Bowler
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:27:16 -0500, Prometheus put fingers to keyboard and
said:

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:21:24 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:

You have to plan ahead, no doubt. For instance, if working from green to
get something which demands a precision fit, you have to turn, dry, turn.
With the pith in, survival nods toward thin, which isn't really compatable
with TDT,

Sorry, but what does TDT stand for?

Turn, Dry, Turn

Got ya. The piece I finished up tonight is going to have a lid made
of a contrasting wood, so I just turned it really thin (about
1/4"-3/16" throughout, and as thin as I dared in the area with the
pith) and finished it. Was starting to have some minor cracking, but
I spun that sucker fast and hard, while sanding it until it was close
to smoking, so I'm hoping that that minor cracking will be all that
happens- if I'm lucky, it'll just be visual interest for the piece.

I've done at least a hundred boxes, but all out of dry or seasoned wood... now
that I'm turning wet wood, I'm having to learn all over again!

The problem with turning thin is that though it minimizes cracking, it
encourages warping... IMO, warping is cool in bowls but not in boxes, because
the lid never seems to warp in the same direction..

My best solution so far is to turn the box and lid thin, except the box opening
and the part of the lid that fits in the box.. I leave a tenon on the end of
each and enough wood there to true them up when they're dry.. (I hope, they're
still drying)

I have a bunch of very fancy kindling from my first batch of boxes turned to
about final fit green and dried.. lol


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:39:37 GMT, "Ken Moon" wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:46:00 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:37:05 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

SNIP...............
Use a sanding sponge gripped in a haemostat. Just don't put your fingers
through the holes, in case you get a grab and twist.

or, if you're not in George's line of work, needle nose pliers..

I've also used some of my cheapo HF sanding drums, too.. (hand held)
==============
Mac,
You don't have to be an EMT like George to have access to hemostats. Do a
Goole on "hemostats" and "forceps" to get a whole new world of tools you
didn't even know you needed, and at prices under $5.00 you can't afford not
to have at least 1 or 2 in your tool box. Hemostats in straight and curved
shape and in lengths from 4 inches up to about 12 inches will become
indespensable (sp?) after you once use them. The ability to lock them closed
is a great advantage over needle nosed pliers. There's also a design called
ring forceps that will hold buffs better than the regular hemostats. You
might also look at picking up some scapels while you're on a medical supply
site. They're an excellent companion to carving tools or your Exacto set.
When you think about it, surgeons are doing work similar to ours, working
down inside cavities, so they've designed a lot of tools we can adapt.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

yeah, I was just pulling George's chain a bit, Ken...
I have several sets of nice forceps, thanks to several trips to the ER for me or
the kids.. fortunately, though they're indispensable, they're considered
disposable by the hospitals.. *g*
I like them for clamping small stuff, too...

I might try scalpels in my next life... a friend gave me a couple of really cool
Stanley utility knives years ago, and 4 pack of 100 blades each.. I think
they'll last longer than I will..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Ken Moon wrote:Hemostats in straight and curved
shape and in lengths from 4 inches up to about 12 inches will become
indespensable (sp?) after you once use them. The ability to lock them closed
is a great advantage over needle nosed pliers. There's also a design called
ring forceps that will hold buffs better than the regular hemostats.

Snip

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.



In fact, these are called "Sponge Sticks" meaning gauze sponges. I use a
10 inch curved clamp a lot.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

D.A.M. -- Mothers Against Dyslexia





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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:40:13 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:44:51 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:
.

Any good rules of thumb for drying times:thickness? I know with
lumber it's about 1 year:1 inch, but that seems like a lot with a
small hollowed peice.


It's the don't give much to pull against move all over again. With the
pith
located in a sloped or curved area of the wall, it has less to grab below,
because there isn't enough continuous fiber across the grain. Little loss
(1%) of dimension along the grain.

Good deal- That's what I've got going, but it was more for aestetic
reasons to begin with.



Well, it's _not_ an inch per year, as the boys at Madison will be pleased to
tell you, http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/simps01b.pdf and in
the free downloadable wood handbook. Then there's the fact that end grain
loses at ten times the face grain rate, and a whole bunch of other neat
things.

Handy site. I was just going by an oft-repeated rule of thumb, but
looking at that makes me think it may be worthwhile to contact the
sawmill even if I *don't* make a solar kiln.

Further, wood once dry gains moisture along with rising relative humidity,
which is the problem with tight-fitting lids. Weigh your piece, check it
every three or four days until it loses no weight for two checks, and it's
as dry as it will get for the present conditions.

I like them to be a little snug, but I try to recall the reasons
behind frame-and-panel furniture construction, even with stuff from
the lathe. So the lid has a "step" that allows it to sit properly,
even if one or both of the components strink or expand.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:23:48 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

I've done at least a hundred boxes, but all out of dry or seasoned wood... now
that I'm turning wet wood, I'm having to learn all over again!

You can say that again. My first one was out of a laminated blank of
kiln-dried mahogany, and it was a whole different experience than
sopping wet cherry!

The problem with turning thin is that though it minimizes cracking, it
encourages warping... IMO, warping is cool in bowls but not in boxes, because
the lid never seems to warp in the same direction..

So far, I've been all right- I've only had a bowl from a wet oak burl
cap warp on me, but that was some squirrely stuff all around. Looked
nice, but it was certainly a challenge.

My best solution so far is to turn the box and lid thin, except the box opening
and the part of the lid that fits in the box.. I leave a tenon on the end of
each and enough wood there to true them up when they're dry.. (I hope, they're
still drying)

I turned the lid on the last one out of some very dry mesquite, so
that wasn't much of a concern. From what I can tell, the cherry box
is dry, or darn close, and it has survived. Hopefully, I can still
say that several weeks from now, but it's looking good so far!

I have a bunch of very fancy kindling from my first batch of boxes turned to
about final fit green and dried.. lol

Yep. I need to get myself a fire ring- seems like I had a run of
beginner's luck with the first couple dozen things I turned, and now
it seems that there's about equal odds of any project either exploding
on the lathe or coming out beautifully. Some of that is is using
deadfall that is partially rotted, some of it is trying new
techniques, but it sure makes a lot of firewood in any case!

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:40:13 -0400, "George" George@least wrote:

SNIP..............
I like them to be a little snug, but I try to recall the reasons
behind frame-and-panel furniture construction, even with stuff from
the lathe. So the lid has a "step" that allows it to sit properly,
even if one or both of the components strink or expand.
======================
That's not exactly true. If you do the lid and lower box part from the same
piece, there's a good chance they'll expand and contract together, but the
mass of the lid also has a lot to do with a continuing snug fit. If you
hollow the inside of the lid so it leaves a "hollow tenon" that fis down
inside the box, then there's an even better chance of a continuing fit. A
hole in the center of the top for a glued in finial will also reduce
stresses on the lid reducing chances of cracking. Every little bit helps.

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:53:06 -0500, Prometheus wrote:


Yep. I need to get myself a fire ring- seems like I had a run of
beginner's luck with the first couple dozen things I turned, and now
it seems that there's about equal odds of any project either exploding
on the lathe or coming out beautifully. Some of that is is using
deadfall that is partially rotted, some of it is trying new
techniques, but it sure makes a lot of firewood in any case!

My wife bought 5 or 6 big plastic storage boxes that i use for "camping"
firewood... especially the stuff left over after cutting the round part out of
the blank.. great kindling, with those thin edges..
We went to the coast to cool off a bit this weekend and burned 2 boxes, so I
have empties to fill again..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing