So... the reason I've been asking so many gas questions in these groups is
that we have had wells put in on the farm here and now get some gas for
free. We changed my rickety old oil furnace over to gas at Christmas time,
but the bucks really are about dried up after that and the cost of having
lines installed inside and out and etc. I know I'm asking a lot of questions
in a lot of groups, and do appreciate the replies even if I've gotten
careless about saying that.

So... here's another gas post. The lines here belong to the driller and not
the gas company. He said that one of his requirements concerning tieing into
his lines is that he wanted a small shelter covered with black felt built
over the tap, meter and regulators (little one, not his monster) out in the
field to help prevent any possible freeze up. I hope to get to that this
week or next. I figure some sort of little A frame might be best.

But here's where the questions come in... he also said he wants a back-up
heat source in case there would be a freeze up at the regulator as 'we're
not a utility with trucks out around the clock and I'd have to wait till my
guys come in in the morning or Monday if it's a weekend and if it's cold
enough to happen to you then it's cold enough to have happened to someone
else, too. It might not happen for many years but it might happen several
times in one year, from our experience.'

Q: Now... knowing that these guys are the used car salesmen of energy, is he
just covering his ass or is this a real possibility?

I added one of those 30,000 BTU ventless space heaters to the basement and
am extremely happy with it (I know experiences vary) and I no longer need
space heaters all around to keep the pipes flowing in the worst but spinning
the electric meter in the process. One evening, when it was 3degF during the
day a few weeks ago, our power went out for 5 1/2 hours and I turned it up
to high and opened the cellar step door above it and it kept the house at
70deg just fine for the duration. It is a small single story and I realize
there's a lot of difference between keeping it warm and getting it warm.
Nonetheless, I'm considering getting another one (LP style) at season-end
prices and getting a little bar-b-que sized tank and keeping it down there
just in case of his emergency line freeze.

Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose (subject for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.





Thanks again.

20 lb maybe 11 hrs

"Ralph D." wrote in message
...
So... the reason I've been asking so many gas questions in these groups is
that we have had wells put in on the farm here and now get some gas for
free. We changed my rickety old oil furnace over to gas at Christmas time,
but the bucks really are about dried up after that and the cost of having
lines installed inside and out and etc. I know I'm asking a lot of
questions
in a lot of groups, and do appreciate the replies even if I've gotten
careless about saying that.

So... here's another gas post. The lines here belong to the driller and
not
the gas company. He said that one of his requirements concerning tieing
into
his lines is that he wanted a small shelter covered with black felt built
over the tap, meter and regulators (little one, not his monster) out in
the
field to help prevent any possible freeze up. I hope to get to that this
week or next. I figure some sort of little A frame might be best.

But here's where the questions come in... he also said he wants a back-up
heat source in case there would be a freeze up at the regulator as 'we're
not a utility with trucks out around the clock and I'd have to wait till
my
guys come in in the morning or Monday if it's a weekend and if it's cold
enough to happen to you then it's cold enough to have happened to someone
else, too. It might not happen for many years but it might happen several
times in one year, from our experience.'

Q: Now... knowing that these guys are the used car salesmen of energy, is
he
just covering his ass or is this a real possibility?

I added one of those 30,000 BTU ventless space heaters to the basement and
am extremely happy with it (I know experiences vary) and I no longer need
space heaters all around to keep the pipes flowing in the worst but
spinning
the electric meter in the process. One evening, when it was 3degF during
the
day a few weeks ago, our power went out for 5 1/2 hours and I turned it up
to high and opened the cellar step door above it and it kept the house at
70deg just fine for the duration. It is a small single story and I realize
there's a lot of difference between keeping it warm and getting it warm.
Nonetheless, I'm considering getting another one (LP style) at season-end
prices and getting a little bar-b-que sized tank and keeping it down there
just in case of his emergency line freeze.

Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose (subject
for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.





Thanks again.

your all over the place here.

If he wants a protective cover and it is his pipe then he gets one. As for
the heat. That will be pretty hard to do considering this is out in the
field. Providing that I understand what the your talking about.

Propane and NG are different animals and would probably require different
jetting to get the heaters to work correctly.

WAG 30k BTU's maybe 4-5 hours on a 20 pound tank. (BBQ tank)

"SQLit" wrote in message


Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent
free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose (subject
for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.



Propane and NG are different animals and would probably require different
jetting to get the heaters to work correctly.

WAG 30k BTU's maybe 4-5 hours on a 20 pound tank. (BBQ tank)


Pound of propane is 21,560 Btu. Twenty pound tank is 431.200 Btu so a true
30k burner would last 14.3 hours.

What are the properties of propane?

Formula
C3H8

Boiling point, F, @ atmospheric press
-44

Specific gravity of gas (air=1) @ 60F
1.53

Specific gravity of liquid (water=1)
0.51

Weight per gallon of liquid @ 60F, lbs
4.23

BTU per gallon (vaporized)
91,500

BTU per pound (vaporized)
21,560

BTU per Cubic Foot (vaporized)
2,500

Ed, you sure that Hank Hill is not your alter ego? Y'all know tooooo much
about c3h8 to be normal.
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"SQLit" wrote in message


Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent
free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose
(subject
for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.



Propane and NG are different animals and would probably require
different
jetting to get the heaters to work correctly.

WAG 30k BTU's maybe 4-5 hours on a 20 pound tank. (BBQ tank)


Pound of propane is 21,560 Btu. Twenty pound tank is 431.200 Btu so a
true
30k burner would last 14.3 hours.

What are the properties of propane?

Formula
C3H8

Boiling point, F, @ atmospheric press
-44

Specific gravity of gas (air=1) @ 60F
1.53

Specific gravity of liquid (water=1)
0.51

Weight per gallon of liquid @ 60F, lbs
4.23

BTU per gallon (vaporized)
91,500

BTU per pound (vaporized)
21,560

BTU per Cubic Foot (vaporized)
2,500

"NoSpamFANatic" wrote in message
...
Ed, you sure that Hank Hill is not your alter ego? Y'all know tooooo much
about c3h8 to be normal.

This is Turtle.

If you read over at alt.hvac and go to the referrance site posted there. You can
get most any data you want. The Key here is '' Ed can read '' .

TURTLE

I should have maybe broken that into two posts, I guess.

Issue 1:

The enclosure for the meter is one issue... theoretically it's his on one
end, mine on the other, but... the bottom line is that he didn't have to do
some of the things he's done for us, but in an effort to come to some
agreements that made the whole plan workable for *everybody* involved here
without them raping the farm like they do so often (and they wouldn't have
got the contract without some guarantees that it wouldn't happen) there were
expenses and labor added to his end and some things picked up on our end.
It's called a business compromise (the type that would not happen with
larger name drillers). It's a good deal that a family member worked out that
benefits several family members significantly and I'm not going to complain
about a little enclosure... small price for some long term gains.

Weather gathers in the valley and then rips up across our fields and just
hammers anything in it's path by the time it gets to the top here. What I
was wondering is if the black felt covered enclosure as an A-frame that lets
snow and such run off would be better than a box with slight pitched top.
Would one hold warmth any better or are they both gonna do no more than just
shield it from the elements?


Issue 2:

The backup heat is for *in the house* in case the lines ever did freeze. It
is an occurance sometimes coming out of wells. We are not worried about the
well tripping as when it happens there are still others on line, but if the
regulator or meter from my tap freezes I may be without heat for a while
till he gets someone out to reset it. I was wondering about buying a second
ventless heater with propane fittings to use as an emergency heat source and
it's viability from the standpoint of how long it would run off of a 20
pound tank of propane. It will do the job, from experience, but how long
will it do it for? I see some varied answers to that... guess I'll just grab
a bag of popcorn and watch it work itself out here, eh? ;-)



Thanks for the replies!!





"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"SQLit" wrote in message


Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent
free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose
(subject
for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.



Propane and NG are different animals and would probably require
different
jetting to get the heaters to work correctly.

WAG 30k BTU's maybe 4-5 hours on a 20 pound tank. (BBQ tank)


Pound of propane is 21,560 Btu. Twenty pound tank is 431.200 Btu so a
true
30k burner would last 14.3 hours.

What are the properties of propane?

Formula
C3H8

Boiling point, F, @ atmospheric press
-44

Specific gravity of gas (air=1) @ 60F
1.53

Specific gravity of liquid (water=1)
0.51

Weight per gallon of liquid @ 60F, lbs
4.23

BTU per gallon (vaporized)
91,500

BTU per pound (vaporized)
21,560

BTU per Cubic Foot (vaporized)
2,500

"Ralph D." wrote in message

What I
was wondering is if the black felt covered enclosure as an A-frame that
lets
snow and such run off would be better than a box with slight pitched top.
Would one hold warmth any better or are they both gonna do no more than
just
shield it from the elements?

Scetch out the frame with dimensions. Calculate the volume of each or at
leas the square footage of the frames. Given similar construction
materials, the smaller one will take less heat to maintain the same
temperature as you have less volume to heat.
..


Issue 2:

It will do the job, from experience, but how long
will it do it for? I see some varied answers to that... guess I'll just
grab
a bag of popcorn and watch it work itself out here, eh? ;-)



Opinions may be varied, but the Btu content of propane is a constant, as is
mathematical formula. Use them and you will have the one correct answer.

"Ralph D." wrote in message
...
So... the reason I've been asking so many gas questions in these groups is
that we have had wells put in on the farm here and now get some gas for
free. We changed my rickety old oil furnace over to gas at Christmas time,
but the bucks really are about dried up after that and the cost of having
lines installed inside and out and etc. I know I'm asking a lot of questions
in a lot of groups, and do appreciate the replies even if I've gotten
careless about saying that.

So... here's another gas post. The lines here belong to the driller and not
the gas company. He said that one of his requirements concerning tieing into
his lines is that he wanted a small shelter covered with black felt built
over the tap, meter and regulators (little one, not his monster) out in the
field to help prevent any possible freeze up. I hope to get to that this
week or next. I figure some sort of little A frame might be best.

But here's where the questions come in... he also said he wants a back-up
heat source in case there would be a freeze up at the regulator as 'we're
not a utility with trucks out around the clock and I'd have to wait till my
guys come in in the morning or Monday if it's a weekend and if it's cold
enough to happen to you then it's cold enough to have happened to someone
else, too. It might not happen for many years but it might happen several
times in one year, from our experience.'

Q: Now... knowing that these guys are the used car salesmen of energy, is he
just covering his ass or is this a real possibility?

I added one of those 30,000 BTU ventless space heaters to the basement and
am extremely happy with it (I know experiences vary) and I no longer need
space heaters all around to keep the pipes flowing in the worst but spinning
the electric meter in the process. One evening, when it was 3degF during the
day a few weeks ago, our power went out for 5 1/2 hours and I turned it up
to high and opened the cellar step door above it and it kept the house at
70deg just fine for the duration. It is a small single story and I realize
there's a lot of difference between keeping it warm and getting it warm.
Nonetheless, I'm considering getting another one (LP style) at season-end
prices and getting a little bar-b-que sized tank and keeping it down there
just in case of his emergency line freeze.

Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose (subject for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.

Thanks again.


Q# 1 : Yes you can have a freezing Natural gas or propane regulator. Part # 2
Of Q# 1 : when building a cover over the small meter station . Buy you a Round
shaped Dog house from Sam's Wholesale stores made of fiber glass Cut a hole in
the back for piping and cover the small door in the front with insulating
material. Then for heat of the regulator get you some heat strip wire heater and
wrap the regulator with the heat wires and them wrap the wires and the regulator
with insulating material to keep the heat in. Then run you some 115 volt service
out to the dog house and tie the heater in. Now to save energy tie a Gemline
Refrigerator Defrost terminator [ Gemline Model GL-50 terminator ] in on the hot
side of the electric circuit and it will turn on the heat when it gets +30ºF and
turn it off when it get back up to +50ºF . Now don't put more than 15 amps on
the terminator or you will over load it. 4 to 8 amps should be fine when picking
the heat sizes.

Q# 2 : I would be just guessing here but these 30,000 btu natural gas heaters
converted to propane will only put out 26,000 btu's. so you should be able to
run a day or so on a 5 gal bottle. Now if the gas heater that you pick happens
to be the non-blue flame type and the heated glowing panel type called Infra Red
type. You may get 2
days out of a 5 gal. bottle. Some names of these is Van Guard , Glow Warm, and
Cozy warm. Here is a site for one of them.
http://www.desa.com/vanguardheat/spa...aRedIndex.html Or the Main
Site to look at them. www.vanguardheat.com . If it does not have the Infra Red
Panels in it. You wasting fuel big time.

If the heater has a blue flame your not getting the most efficent heater made.
the Blue flame type only get about a 60% to 70% of the heat out of the fuel. The
Infra Red type will get 99.9% of the heat out of the fuel you put in it.

Now Part 2 of Q# 2 : They make a attachment to the propane bottle with a Infra
Red panel ray heater in it and is made for use with a propane bottle. They come
in different sizes from 6k btu to 35k btu . I have seen them in different places
that sell camping and outdoor living supplies. These heater are made for outdoor
use or vented areas. [[[[[[[[[*********Now WARNING HERE these heaters can be
dangerous for not having no oxygen sencers on them and will burn up all the air
in the basement if you close it up in the basement and not let it get any fresh
air to it.************]]]]]]]]]]]] If you have just little venting air to your
basement and keep the door to the top floors open. You should be find. I will
have to google it and find the brands and sellers but they surely make them
ready to go with the use with a propane bottle. Well I Googled it for you and
here is one that will fit the bill but do not take this as advertisement because
you can get ripped off buying over the internet and take this as just a place to
look at it. http://www.heatershop.com/infrared_heater_30_r.html Now you can
search the page out and get different sizes and styles as you may want to look
at. Now at $79.00 your not really putting a fortune in this heat type. This type
heater says it will run 30 hours at full 30K btu heat setting and the regular
infra red propane ventless heater should do the same.

Now with all this said You will be better off by getting a ventless infra Red
Panel type gas heater which will have the oxygen sencer on them and be much
safer for if your not up on the proper venting of these propane bottle heater
you don't need to fool with them and leave them alone.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Ralph D." wrote in message
...
So... the reason I've been asking so many gas questions in these groups
is
that we have had wells put in on the farm here and now get some gas for
free. We changed my rickety old oil furnace over to gas at Christmas
time,
but the bucks really are about dried up after that and the cost of
having
lines installed inside and out and etc. I know I'm asking a lot of
questions
in a lot of groups, and do appreciate the replies even if I've gotten
careless about saying that.

So... here's another gas post. The lines here belong to the driller and
not
the gas company. He said that one of his requirements concerning tieing
into
his lines is that he wanted a small shelter covered with black felt
built
over the tap, meter and regulators (little one, not his monster) out in
the
field to help prevent any possible freeze up. I hope to get to that this
week or next. I figure some sort of little A frame might be best.

But here's where the questions come in... he also said he wants a
back-up
heat source in case there would be a freeze up at the regulator as
'we're
not a utility with trucks out around the clock and I'd have to wait till
my
guys come in in the morning or Monday if it's a weekend and if it's cold
enough to happen to you then it's cold enough to have happened to
someone
else, too. It might not happen for many years but it might happen
several
times in one year, from our experience.'

Q: Now... knowing that these guys are the used car salesmen of energy,
is he
just covering his ass or is this a real possibility?

I added one of those 30,000 BTU ventless space heaters to the basement
and
am extremely happy with it (I know experiences vary) and I no longer
need
space heaters all around to keep the pipes flowing in the worst but
spinning
the electric meter in the process. One evening, when it was 3degF during
the
day a few weeks ago, our power went out for 5 1/2 hours and I turned it
up
to high and opened the cellar step door above it and it kept the house
at
70deg just fine for the duration. It is a small single story and I
realize
there's a lot of difference between keeping it warm and getting it warm.
Nonetheless, I'm considering getting another one (LP style) at
season-end
prices and getting a little bar-b-que sized tank and keeping it down
there
just in case of his emergency line freeze.

Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent
free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose (subject
for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.

Thanks again.


Q# 1 : Yes you can have a freezing Natural gas or propane regulator. Part
# 2
Of Q# 1 : when building a cover over the small meter station . Buy you a
Round
shaped Dog house from Sam's Wholesale stores made of fiber glass Cut a
hole in
the back for piping and cover the small door in the front with insulating
material. Then for heat of the regulator get you some heat strip wire
heater and
wrap the regulator with the heat wires and them wrap the wires and the
regulator
with insulating material to keep the heat in. Then run you some 115 volt
service
out to the dog house and tie the heater in. Now to save energy tie a
Gemline
Refrigerator Defrost terminator [ Gemline Model GL-50 terminator ] in on
the hot
side of the electric circuit and it will turn on the heat when it gets
+30ºF and
turn it off when it get back up to +50ºF . Now don't put more than 15 amps
on
the terminator or you will over load it. 4 to 8 amps should be fine when
picking
the heat sizes.

Q# 2 : I would be just guessing here but these 30,000 btu natural gas
heaters
converted to propane will only put out 26,000 btu's. so you should be able
to
run a day or so on a 5 gal bottle. Now if the gas heater that you pick
happens
to be the non-blue flame type and the heated glowing panel type called
Infra Red
type. You may get 2
days out of a 5 gal. bottle. Some names of these is Van Guard , Glow Warm,
and
Cozy warm. Here is a site for one of them.
http://www.desa.com/vanguardheat/spa...aRedIndex.html Or the
Main
Site to look at them. www.vanguardheat.com . If it does not have the Infra
Red
Panels in it. You wasting fuel big time.

If the heater has a blue flame your not getting the most efficent heater
made.
the Blue flame type only get about a 60% to 70% of the heat out of the
fuel. The
Infra Red type will get 99.9% of the heat out of the fuel you put in it.

Now Part 2 of Q# 2 : They make a attachment to the propane bottle with a
Infra
Red panel ray heater in it and is made for use with a propane bottle. They
come
in different sizes from 6k btu to 35k btu . I have seen them in different
places
that sell camping and outdoor living supplies. These heater are made for
outdoor
use or vented areas. [[[[[[[[[*********Now WARNING HERE these heaters can
be
dangerous for not having no oxygen sencers on them and will burn up all
the air
in the basement if you close it up in the basement and not let it get any
fresh
air to it.************]]]]]]]]]]]] If you have just little venting air to
your
basement and keep the door to the top floors open. You should be find. I
will
have to google it and find the brands and sellers but they surely make
them
ready to go with the use with a propane bottle. Well I Googled it for you
and
here is one that will fit the bill but do not take this as advertisement
because
you can get ripped off buying over the internet and take this as just a
place to
look at it. http://www.heatershop.com/infrared_heater_30_r.html Now you
can
search the page out and get different sizes and styles as you may want to
look
at. Now at $79.00 your not really putting a fortune in this heat type.
This type
heater says it will run 30 hours at full 30K btu heat setting and the
regular
infra red propane ventless heater should do the same.

Now with all this said You will be better off by getting a ventless infra
Red
Panel type gas heater which will have the oxygen sencer on them and be
much
safer for if your not up on the proper venting of these propane bottle
heater
you don't need to fool with them and leave them alone.


I thought the plaques radiated heat directionally as opposed to letting it
just build and spread? Drifting up the steps would be ideal as long as just
enough heat stayed low to keep the plumbing thawed. I would likely buy one
just like the other one only the LP version... this thing did a helluva job
and at season closeout can be had for about $150 at Tractor Supply Company
and can be left unattended. I've seen those like you linked here, but I
worry they seem topheavy and there's no glass in front of the burners. Even
with Ed P's 14 hours that's plenty of time to react to the situation and get
another bottle or whatever. Too bad the larger bottles aren't as economical
to just run out and trade every time the Home Depot or Wally World have one
of those $17 dollar sales. But I think I just might take this route.


Thanks again for all of the replies.

"Ralph D." wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Ralph D." wrote in message
...
So... the reason I've been asking so many gas questions in these groups
is
that we have had wells put in on the farm here and now get some gas for
free. We changed my rickety old oil furnace over to gas at Christmas
time,
but the bucks really are about dried up after that and the cost of
having
lines installed inside and out and etc. I know I'm asking a lot of
questions
in a lot of groups, and do appreciate the replies even if I've gotten
careless about saying that.

So... here's another gas post. The lines here belong to the driller and
not
the gas company. He said that one of his requirements concerning tieing
into
his lines is that he wanted a small shelter covered with black felt
built
over the tap, meter and regulators (little one, not his monster) out in
the
field to help prevent any possible freeze up. I hope to get to that this
week or next. I figure some sort of little A frame might be best.

But here's where the questions come in... he also said he wants a
back-up
heat source in case there would be a freeze up at the regulator as
'we're
not a utility with trucks out around the clock and I'd have to wait till
my
guys come in in the morning or Monday if it's a weekend and if it's cold
enough to happen to you then it's cold enough to have happened to
someone
else, too. It might not happen for many years but it might happen
several
times in one year, from our experience.'

Q: Now... knowing that these guys are the used car salesmen of energy,
is he
just covering his ass or is this a real possibility?

I added one of those 30,000 BTU ventless space heaters to the basement
and
am extremely happy with it (I know experiences vary) and I no longer
need
space heaters all around to keep the pipes flowing in the worst but
spinning
the electric meter in the process. One evening, when it was 3degF during
the
day a few weeks ago, our power went out for 5 1/2 hours and I turned it
up
to high and opened the cellar step door above it and it kept the house
at
70deg just fine for the duration. It is a small single story and I
realize
there's a lot of difference between keeping it warm and getting it warm.
Nonetheless, I'm considering getting another one (LP style) at
season-end
prices and getting a little bar-b-que sized tank and keeping it down
there
just in case of his emergency line freeze.

Q: How much time would I get from this tank running a 30,000 BTU vent
free
heater at full tilt. Is this a viable emergency source?


I really would like to keep my chimney free for another purpose (subject
for
another thread) if I can and this might be a cheap way out.

Thanks again.


Q# 1 : Yes you can have a freezing Natural gas or propane regulator. Part
# 2
Of Q# 1 : when building a cover over the small meter station . Buy you a
Round
shaped Dog house from Sam's Wholesale stores made of fiber glass Cut a
hole in
the back for piping and cover the small door in the front with insulating
material. Then for heat of the regulator get you some heat strip wire
heater and
wrap the regulator with the heat wires and them wrap the wires and the
regulator
with insulating material to keep the heat in. Then run you some 115 volt
service
out to the dog house and tie the heater in. Now to save energy tie a
Gemline
Refrigerator Defrost terminator [ Gemline Model GL-50 terminator ] in on
the hot
side of the electric circuit and it will turn on the heat when it gets
+30ºF and
turn it off when it get back up to +50ºF . Now don't put more than 15 amps
on
the terminator or you will over load it. 4 to 8 amps should be fine when
picking
the heat sizes.

Q# 2 : I would be just guessing here but these 30,000 btu natural gas
heaters
converted to propane will only put out 26,000 btu's. so you should be able
to
run a day or so on a 5 gal bottle. Now if the gas heater that you pick
happens
to be the non-blue flame type and the heated glowing panel type called
Infra Red
type. You may get 2
days out of a 5 gal. bottle. Some names of these is Van Guard , Glow Warm,
and
Cozy warm. Here is a site for one of them.
http://www.desa.com/vanguardheat/spa...aRedIndex.html Or the
Main
Site to look at them. www.vanguardheat.com . If it does not have the Infra
Red
Panels in it. You wasting fuel big time.

If the heater has a blue flame your not getting the most efficent heater
made.
the Blue flame type only get about a 60% to 70% of the heat out of the
fuel. The
Infra Red type will get 99.9% of the heat out of the fuel you put in it.

Now Part 2 of Q# 2 : They make a attachment to the propane bottle with a
Infra
Red panel ray heater in it and is made for use with a propane bottle. They
come
in different sizes from 6k btu to 35k btu . I have seen them in different
places
that sell camping and outdoor living supplies. These heater are made for
outdoor
use or vented areas. [[[[[[[[[*********Now WARNING HERE these heaters can
be
dangerous for not having no oxygen sencers on them and will burn up all
the air
in the basement if you close it up in the basement and not let it get any
fresh
air to it.************]]]]]]]]]]]] If you have just little venting air to
your
basement and keep the door to the top floors open. You should be find. I
will
have to google it and find the brands and sellers but they surely make
them
ready to go with the use with a propane bottle. Well I Googled it for you
and
here is one that will fit the bill but do not take this as advertisement
because
you can get ripped off buying over the internet and take this as just a
place to
look at it. http://www.heatershop.com/infrared_heater_30_r.html Now you
can
search the page out and get different sizes and styles as you may want to
look
at. Now at $79.00 your not really putting a fortune in this heat type.
This type
heater says it will run 30 hours at full 30K btu heat setting and the
regular
infra red propane ventless heater should do the same.

Now with all this said You will be better off by getting a ventless infra
Red
Panel type gas heater which will have the oxygen sencer on them and be
much
safer for if your not up on the proper venting of these propane bottle
heater
you don't need to fool with them and leave them alone.


I thought the plaques radiated heat directionally as opposed to letting it
just build and spread? Drifting up the steps would be ideal as long as just
enough heat stayed low to keep the plumbing thawed. I would likely buy one
just like the other one only the LP version... this thing did a helluva job
and at season closeout can be had for about $150 at Tractor Supply Company
and can be left unattended. I've seen those like you linked here, but I
worry they seem topheavy and there's no glass in front of the burners. Even
with Ed P's 14 hours that's plenty of time to react to the situation and get
another bottle or whatever. Too bad the larger bottles aren't as economical
to just run out and trade every time the Home Depot or Wally World have one
of those $17 dollar sales. But I think I just might take this route.


Thanks again for all of the replies.


Well if you get the panel ray heater / Infra Red heaters with Oxygen sencers on
them for about $150.00 on close out prices. It would be much safer and and not
have to worry about it.

Now about burning the L.P. fuel and the time to do it. Get a Infra Red type L.P.
heater and the run time is expanded out double the run time of the blue flame
types. Ed P was talking about the blue flame 30,000 btu type and 14 hours is
just about right. Now replace it with Infra Red type panel heaters and the run
time on 30,000 btu heater goes out to 30 hours or more on a 5 gal. or 20 pound
propane bottle.

TURTLE