I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of
decoration would be nice. I had a piece of hard maple which was turned to
somewhat decorative shape. It could be used as a top of the lid of the
box/bowl. I got to wondering if it just might be easier to make the lid
with the decorative little geegaw on top all of a single piece. I've seen
some where the turner made the box, made the lid, and then glued a little
finial on top. Come to think of it, I guess that way to do it is the way
that seems right at the time.

Kevin wrote:
I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of
decoration would be nice. I had a piece of hard maple which was turned to
somewhat decorative shape. It could be used as a top of the lid of the
box/bowl. I got to wondering if it just might be easier to make the lid
with the decorative little geegaw on top all of a single piece. I've seen
some where the turner made the box, made the lid, and then glued a little
finial on top. Come to think of it, I guess that way to do it is the way
that seems right at the time.

You really need to consider the strength of the material you are working
with, and the size/shape of the finished product.

I would make what I call a lidded pot (ie a fairly wide shallow bowl
with a wide lid) then the body and lid would be 'bowl' turned and the
finial would have to be an add on 'spindle' turning for strength.

OTOH, a tall thin box might be 'spindle' turning, so the finial could be
part of the lid.


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

Hi Kevin

You can use different ways and different material to decorate boxes, if
you can get a hold of R Raffan's turning boxes book you'll get a lot of
ideas, Chris Stott is an other prolific box turner, there are more.
Most often my personal taste goes for a clean form and no added finials,
but for some box shapes a small finial or inlay looks real good, and
they can be the same or a total different color and/or material, and
smaller is better is my opinion on size, and just adding something if it
would look better without, does not make sense.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Kevin wrote:

I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of
decoration would be nice. I had a piece of hard maple which was turned to
somewhat decorative shape. It could be used as a top of the lid of the
box/bowl. I got to wondering if it just might be easier to make the lid
with the decorative little geegaw on top all of a single piece. I've seen
some where the turner made the box, made the lid, and then glued a little
finial on top. Come to think of it, I guess that way to do it is the way
that seems right at the time.

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of
decoration would be nice. I had a piece of hard maple which was turned to
somewhat decorative shape. It could be used as a top of the lid of the
box/bowl. I got to wondering if it just might be easier to make the lid
with the decorative little geegaw on top all of a single piece. I've seen
some where the turner made the box, made the lid, and then glued a little
finial on top. Come to think of it, I guess that way to do it is the way
that seems right at the time.



An integral finial, as already mentioned, will make for tough work on a
cross-grained project. It makes for a lot of wasted big wood on a long
grain orientation. I'd plan on an added finial, preferably in contrasting
wood, if you're going that route.

Remember, to increase you chances of success, turn a bit oversize, make sure
things are dry with either time or a microwave -can't dry things by soaking
them - then turn to fit.

Kevin -

For my lidded pot, i took a half a pen blank (as i split up the other half),
turned a small tenon on it and a matching hole in the top of the lid and
superglued them together. that way, the lid never came off the lathe and
stayed round.

just a thought. but, it was a maple pot with a cocobolo finial. not too
bad as it was a nice contrast (and my wife loved it).

Rob

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of
decoration would be nice. I had a piece of hard maple which was turned to
somewhat decorative shape. It could be used as a top of the lid of the
box/bowl. I got to wondering if it just might be easier to make the lid
with the decorative little geegaw on top all of a single piece. I've seen
some where the turner made the box, made the lid, and then glued a little
finial on top. Come to think of it, I guess that way to do it is the way
that seems right at the time.

Rob McConachie wrote:
Kevin -

For my lidded pot, i took a half a pen blank (as i split up the other half),
turned a small tenon on it and a matching hole in the top of the lid and
superglued them together. that way, the lid never came off the lathe and
stayed round.

just a thought. but, it was a maple pot with a cocobolo finial. not too
bad as it was a nice contrast (and my wife loved it).

Rob

"Kevin" wrote in message
...
I was turning a top for a box/bowl the other day and thought a bit of
decoration would be nice. I had a piece of hard maple which was turned to
somewhat decorative shape. It could be used as a top of the lid of the
box/bowl. I got to wondering if it just might be easier to make the lid
with the decorative little geegaw on top all of a single piece. I've seen
some where the turner made the box, made the lid, and then glued a little
finial on top. Come to think of it, I guess that way to do it is the way
that seems right at the time.




I just turned one of box elder with a jatoba base and lid / box elder
finial LOTSARED!

I really like this one. I'm thinking of coating it with satin
polyurethane once the oil (walnut) has had a chance to cure. But I'm not
sure I want to sell this one ... it's the pick of the litter so far.

Bill

you may wish to eschew polyurethanes - they don't feel right (at least to
me) - lacquer or just oil, and carnuba wax has a much nicer feel - urethanes
are kinda soft and sticky feeling (again, my opinion, ymmv)




I just turned one of box elder with a jatoba base and lid / box elder
finial LOTSARED!

I really like this one. I'm thinking of coating it with satin polyurethane
once the oil (walnut) has had a chance to cure. But I'm not sure I want to
sell this one ... it's the pick of the litter so far.

Bill



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:58:32 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

you may wish to eschew polyurethanes - they don't feel right (at least to
me) - lacquer or just oil, and carnuba wax has a much nicer feel - urethanes
are kinda soft and sticky feeling (again, my opinion, ymmv)

Definately an opinion- I actually like spar poly for most of my stuff.
The only finish I prefer is shellac, even though it smells like a wet
dog when sanding and isn't very good for anything that has a chance of
getting wet.

Deft is good stuff, too.

Going out on a limb here- even though I do finish things with wax only
sometimes, doing that feels, well, waxy. And, much stickier feeling
to my paws than a thin coat of a decent poly.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 21:01:15 -0600, Prometheus wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:58:32 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

you may wish to eschew polyurethanes - they don't feel right (at least to
me) - lacquer or just oil, and carnuba wax has a much nicer feel - urethanes
are kinda soft and sticky feeling (again, my opinion, ymmv)

Definately an opinion- I actually like spar poly for most of my stuff.
The only finish I prefer is shellac, even though it smells like a wet
dog when sanding and isn't very good for anything that has a chance of
getting wet.

Deft is good stuff, too.

Going out on a limb here- even though I do finish things with wax only
sometimes, doing that feels, well, waxy. And, much stickier feeling
to my paws than a thin coat of a decent poly.

If poly feels "sticky" it might be the formulation (some are softer than
others) or there might be something preventing it from curing (I've seen
some brands take a month to cure on some woods) or it might be
outdated or have been stored at excessive temperature resulting in an
inability to cure properly.

I don't notice a lot of difference in "feel" between, say wipe-on Minwax,
and bare wood taken to an equal level of polish (if the bare wood will take
that kind of polish). Sand LV to 12,000 grit and polish with its own oil
and the result doesn't look or feel a whole lot different from Corian.



--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 04:00:27 +0000, J. Clarke wrote:

I don't notice a lot of difference in "feel" between, say wipe-on Minwax,
and bare wood taken to an equal level of polish (if the bare wood will take
that kind of polish). Sand LV to 12,000 grit and polish with its own oil
and the result doesn't look or feel a whole lot different from Corian.




The Spanish colloqialism (sp?) is:

"Hay no disputa gusta"

There is no disputing taste.

a lot depends on the wax you use - pure carnuba is very hard and doesn't
feel sticky - at the other end of the spectrum, parafin is soft and sticky
"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:58:32 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

you may wish to eschew polyurethanes - they don't feel right (at least to
me) - lacquer or just oil, and carnuba wax has a much nicer feel -
urethanes
are kinda soft and sticky feeling (again, my opinion, ymmv)

Definately an opinion- I actually like spar poly for most of my stuff.
The only finish I prefer is shellac, even though it smells like a wet
dog when sanding and isn't very good for anything that has a chance of
getting wet.

Deft is good stuff, too.

Going out on a limb here- even though I do finish things with wax only
sometimes, doing that feels, well, waxy. And, much stickier feeling
to my paws than a thin coat of a decent poly.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Definately an opinion- I actually like spar poly for most of my stuff.
The only finish I prefer is shellac, even though it smells like a wet
dog when sanding and isn't very good for anything that has a chance of
getting wet.

Deft is good stuff, too.

Going out on a limb here- even though I do finish things with wax only
sometimes, doing that feels, well, waxy. And, much stickier feeling
to my paws than a thin coat of a decent poly.

Shellac is more resistant to water than you may think. One of the problems
with shellac and water is/was the _wax_ in the shellac. Seems it did what
wax does when it meets water, swell up and color. That's why wax finishes
and selling venues near open water don't mix. The wax is hygroscopic, and
what was slick as the proverbial bb becomes sticky in the high humidity.

I'm not an oenophile, lacking the palate, nor am I an anti poly, lacking the
visual sensitivity. A finish which is transparent and smooth looks very
much like any other transparent and smooth finish. Feels like it, too. I
think the "plastic" accusation has to do with the ease with which
high-solids finishes like brushing poly build surfaces. Betting none of the
above critics would be able to distinguish between poly and French polish
any more than SWMBO, whose exquisite taste in men qualifies her as an expert
everywhere could just now. She even has her glasses on.

George wrote:

Shellac is more resistant to water than you may think. One of the
problems with shellac and water is/was the _wax_ in the shellac. Seems

You're right George, and even that isn't that much of a problem. I've
used shellac as a finish on a bowl and eaten hot soup out of it with no
apparent change in the finish. (It cured for some time before I did -
wasn't immediately afterwards.)

It was garnet if I recall. I don't remember if I decanted the shellac
off after the wax settled or if I used it freshly mixed.

My inspiration to try was due to a post over in rec.woodworking that
some custom wood canoe maker used non-dewaxed shellac for a finish on
his canoes...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 00:10:51 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

a lot depends on the wax you use - pure carnuba is very hard and doesn't
feel sticky - at the other end of the spectrum, parafin is soft and sticky

That's probably true- what I've got is Minwax Paste Wax- which I'm
sure is not pure carnuba, or even particularly high-end. But it's all
I could find locally, and I wasn't too worked up about finding it
online when I bought the stuff.

After seeing how long a can lasts, I'll probably make the effort of
finding better wax when this stuff is gone.

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 12:20:46 GMT, "George" wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
Definately an opinion- I actually like spar poly for most of my stuff.
The only finish I prefer is shellac, even though it smells like a wet
dog when sanding and isn't very good for anything that has a chance of
getting wet.

Deft is good stuff, too.

Going out on a limb here- even though I do finish things with wax only
sometimes, doing that feels, well, waxy. And, much stickier feeling
to my paws than a thin coat of a decent poly.

Shellac is more resistant to water than you may think. One of the problems
with shellac and water is/was the _wax_ in the shellac. Seems it did what
wax does when it meets water, swell up and color. That's why wax finishes
and selling venues near open water don't mix. The wax is hygroscopic, and
what was slick as the proverbial bb becomes sticky in the high humidity.

I'm not an oenophile, lacking the palate, nor am I an anti poly, lacking the
visual sensitivity. A finish which is transparent and smooth looks very
much like any other transparent and smooth finish. Feels like it, too. I
think the "plastic" accusation has to do with the ease with which
high-solids finishes like brushing poly build surfaces. Betting none of the
above critics would be able to distinguish between poly and French polish
any more than SWMBO, whose exquisite taste in men qualifies her as an expert
everywhere could just now. She even has her glasses on.

There's a lot to that- if you put 6 or 7 coats of poly on something,
it's bound to look like it's been encased in plastic, and feel soft-
but for most things, 1-3 coats will do, and look just like many other
clearcoats, especially if you use something like oil to "pop" the
grain before applying the poly.

The big problem with it is that if it gets scratched sometime down the
line, it can't be easily repaired the way wax or shellac can because
sucessive coats don't dissolve into the coat below them. (at least,
that's my understanding of it)

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 15:45:13 -0900, Kevin Miller
wrote:

George wrote:

Shellac is more resistant to water than you may think. One of the
problems with shellac and water is/was the _wax_ in the shellac. Seems

You're right George, and even that isn't that much of a problem. I've
used shellac as a finish on a bowl and eaten hot soup out of it with no
apparent change in the finish. (It cured for some time before I did -
wasn't immediately afterwards.)

It was garnet if I recall. I don't remember if I decanted the shellac
off after the wax settled or if I used it freshly mixed.

My inspiration to try was due to a post over in rec.woodworking that
some custom wood canoe maker used non-dewaxed shellac for a finish on
his canoes...

Hmmm... I may need to try it then. I have never let a shellaced piece
I like get anywhere near water, based on my memories of water rings
from pop cans.

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:03:19 -0600, Prometheus wrote:

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 00:10:51 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

a lot depends on the wax you use - pure carnuba is very hard and doesn't
feel sticky - at the other end of the spectrum, parafin is soft and sticky

That's probably true- what I've got is Minwax Paste Wax- which I'm
sure is not pure carnuba, or even particularly high-end. But it's all
I could find locally, and I wasn't too worked up about finding it
online when I bought the stuff.

Pure carnauba you won't find in a can--the block I have can easily be
mistaken for a brick. You generally use it by applying it to a buffing
wheel like polishing compound. If you're not careful it will scratch your
finish--it's that hard. I'm told that it's harder than concrete.

After seeing how long a can lasts, I'll probably make the effort of
finding better wax when this stuff is gone.

Among wax that comes in a can the Minwax is probably as good as any.
Johnsons, if you can find it, is the "standard". At least one Fortune 500
aerospace company uses Butchers for mold release and the like. Just don't
use car wax--most of it has silicone which will play Hell with your finish
and your glue bonds and worse than that it transfers to other surfaces
easily.



--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

Hello,

I have an excellent article that I wrote on different waxes and their
characteristics on my website. It goes into great detail about the various
waxes and offers application protocols for use in a woodturning environment.
Click on the Library button and you can view/print the article for your
reference.

Carnauba Wax in particular... Is the hardest natural vegetable wax, with a
penetration of only 2 dmm at 25 degrees Centigrade and only 3 dmm at 43.3
degrees Centigrade. It is brittle and non-tacky with a melting point of
approximately 84 degrees Centigrade. Although Carnauba Wax produces a high
lustre, it is not well suited for items that will be handled frequently.

Microcrystalline Waxes are far superior in this instance due to their unique
characteristics. Macrocrystalline waxes offer good moisture resistance, but
do not offer the broad range of protection of their Microwax siblings. If
you have any questions after reading my article, please do not hesitate to
contact me. Thanks and best wishes to all of you!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Website: www.woodturningvideosplus.com

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:26:31 +0000, Steve Russell wrote:

Hello,

I have an excellent article that I wrote on different waxes and their
characteristics on my website. It goes into great detail about the various
waxes and offers application protocols for use in a woodturning environment.
Click on the Library button and you can view/print the article for your
reference.

Carnauba Wax in particular... Is the hardest natural vegetable wax, with a
penetration of only 2 dmm at 25 degrees Centigrade and only 3 dmm at 43.3
degrees Centigrade. It is brittle and non-tacky with a melting point of
approximately 84 degrees Centigrade. Although Carnauba Wax produces a high
lustre, it is not well suited for items that will be handled frequently.

Microcrystalline Waxes are far superior in this instance due to their unique
characteristics. Macrocrystalline waxes offer good moisture resistance, but
do not offer the broad range of protection of their Microwax siblings. If
you have any questions after reading my article, please do not hesitate to
contact me. Thanks and best wishes to all of you!

While it's nice to know that there are all these different kinds of wax,
googling, for example, "polyethylene wax" doesn't get any hits that will
sell in less than truckload quantities except for a couple of outfits
selling what appears to be snake oil in a bottle on ebay. Some suppliers
would be helfpul.


--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

Prometheus wrote:

Shellac is more resistant to water than you may think.**One*of*the
problems with shellac and water is/was the _wax_ in the shellac.**Seems


Hmmm... I may need to try it then.**I*have*never*let*a*shellaced*piece
I like get anywhere near water, based on my memories of water rings
from pop cans.

During a demo on using shellac, I've scattered large droplets of water on a
dewaxed shellac finish and left them there for 30-60 minutes while doing the
demo. When I eventually wipe it off, there's no sign it was ever there.. I
haven't tried the experiment with shellac containing wax.

But I'd be hesitant to submerge a shellac finish, as in the canoe mentioned in
an earlier post :-).

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Larry Blanchard wrote:

During a demo on using shellac, I've scattered large droplets of water on a
dewaxed shellac finish and left them there for 30-60 minutes while doing the
demo. When I eventually wipe it off, there's no sign it was ever there.. I
haven't tried the experiment with shellac containing wax.

But I'd be hesitant to submerge a shellac finish, as in the canoe mentioned in
an earlier post :-).


A few years ago I tried an experiment. I took a scrap of walnut and
finished one half with dewaxed shellac. The other half was finished
with shellac containing wax (Bullseye). I poured a puddle of water and
set a glass in the puddle on each half and let it sit overnight. The
next morning the dewaxed side was fine. The side finished with the
shellac containing wax had the white ring and the grain of the wood was
raised.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Hello,

What are your requirements? What will you be using the wax for and how much
do you want? Are you looking for a cream or paste wax, or bulk solids...


On 11/20/06 8:00 AM, in article , "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:26:31 +0000, Steve Russell wrote:

Hello,

I have an excellent article that I wrote on different waxes and their
characteristics on my website. It goes into great detail about the various
waxes and offers application protocols for use in a woodturning environment.
Click on the Library button and you can view/print the article for your
reference.

Carnauba Wax in particular... Is the hardest natural vegetable wax, with a
penetration of only 2 dmm at 25 degrees Centigrade and only 3 dmm at 43.3
degrees Centigrade. It is brittle and non-tacky with a melting point of
approximately 84 degrees Centigrade. Although Carnauba Wax produces a high
lustre, it is not well suited for items that will be handled frequently.

Microcrystalline Waxes are far superior in this instance due to their unique
characteristics. Macrocrystalline waxes offer good moisture resistance, but
do not offer the broad range of protection of their Microwax siblings. If
you have any questions after reading my article, please do not hesitate to
contact me. Thanks and best wishes to all of you!

While it's nice to know that there are all these different kinds of wax,
googling, for example, "polyethylene wax" doesn't get any hits that will
sell in less than truckload quantities except for a couple of outfits
selling what appears to be snake oil in a bottle on ebay. Some suppliers
would be helfpul.


--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio, The Woodlands, Texas
Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

Website: www.woodturningvideosplus.com

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell²
Volume #1 CD ROM e-Book * Available for Shipment
Volume #2 CD ROM e-Book/DVD Video * Available for Shipment
Volume #3 Double DVD Video on Bowl Turning * Available for Shipment