"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
snip
Your ilk is a big reason I'm getting a place abroad, actually. I'm
fed
up with the anals taking over the UK.


But you're happy to infest another country....

"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
snip

Exactly, you interpreted my words correctly.
Like I also said later, the wires would run IN the skirting board,
not
behind it, since it would be a shallow box.

Oh right, you mean (skirting) trunking and not what you said in the
subject line, why can't you say what you mean, or do you expect
everyone to be mind readers ?...You utter ****, or are you just
another brainless troll.

"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
snip

The skirting board would be more of a box than a board (2x battens,
ply and moulding to round the top) and looking at the sockets it
would
be obvious that the wires run in it.

The wood needs to be treated with fire retardant.

On 31 Mar 2005 10:05:58 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:

(s--p--o--n--i--x) wrote in message ...
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:43:27 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

markzoom wrote:

Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss
about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring
Gestapo. As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them

If your question was not about wiring regs, then what exactly did you
want to know?

Err, I think he asked whether there were any PRACTICAL reasons for not
doing so.

s

Exactly, you interpreted my words correctly.
Like I also said later, the wires would run IN the skirting board, not
behind it, since it would be a shallow box.

Actually your original post, and the subject used the word *behind*.

SInce this is a UK newsgroup, it's perfectly reasonable that your
question would refer to the common practice of a wooden skirting board
attached to the wall with nails or screws.

Fairly obviously the wiring standards are based on the same situation.
the reasons are real and practical, given the environment.

You've changed the game as the thread has proceeded, so it's rather
silly to moan now when you didn't provide all the information about
the situation, but just little pieces.

There is available various forms of skirting trunking system both here
and in other countries. Most, but not all is more suited to an
office or factory than a home. Although this involves running cables
within the band that would normally not be used by dint of the
standard if the cable were hidden behind the skirting; this is a
different situation.


Another reason I don't want to attack the walls (apart from it being a
total shag) is because it is originally a stone house underneath and I
might end up trying to carve grooves into lava. Another alternative
might be to run conduit above the (squared) skirting board and put a
quarter round moulding above the rectangular conduit to make it
neater.
Mark K.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:36:59 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 30 Mar 2005 15:39:00 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:

Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards?
Mark


Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring
Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring
behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the
place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful.

is there always a wirinjg inspection when a domestic property changes hands ?

Generally only if the purchaser pays for a "full survey" or electrical
inspection. A lender's inspection may well not since the lender is
mainly interested in knowing if his security in the form of the
property is covered.

This may change with the new Sellers Pack idea.

However, there is normally a questionnaire as part of the conveyancing
to which the vendor has to reply.

An electrical contractor should not have done anything as stupid as
putting wiring behind skirting. So the implication would be of a
poorly executed DIY job

I hope you're not implying I'm "stupid". I have a number of good
reasons for wanting to run wires IN a purpose made skirting board:

It would be utterly pointless to run wiring INSIDE THE WALL behind a
skirting board.
The house is made of hard lava stone and I have no idea where the
stones project close to the surface of the plaster, so I'm not going
to start cutting grooves in it.
It is in an earthquake zone, so I want to keep as much structural
integrity as possible ( no 50mm+ deep grooves !)
It IS by far more unsafe to run wires in walls because people DO hang
pictures and shelves there (unlike skirting boards), in every house,
hence the big market for cable detectors.
I may want to add low voltage wiring at a later stage, from green
energy generation, so I want electrics to be accessible.
I may want to add (suitably heavy duty) spurs to extensions some
distance from the consumer unit at a later stage.

And last but not least: I have absolutely no faith in alleged
"experts" (In particular those who work for governments), they tend to
be self-opinionated assholes out to create work for themselves or
braindead drones whom I have proved wrong on various occasions .
That's why I asked the question here, where there is a higher chance
of common sense replies from normal people.

As you can see from the above, UK regulations would prevent me from
installing a common sense and adaptable wiring circuit. They might be
fine for your bog-average brit box but not for more exotic foreign
structures that will be adapted to green energy in the coming years.

Mark K.



who does it and how can they tell if there's any wiring behind the skirting ?

Normally an electrician belonging to one of the approaved trade
associations. It's pretty easy to find live wiring with a cheap
detector that you can buy on any hardware store.



genuine questions



RT

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ...
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
snip

What if you have sockets on said skirtings though?

(Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish)
skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings)


Then you would expect to find wires either vertically above or bellow
the said outlet.

.... and somehow be expected not to hang pictures or shelves above
them, duh (as opposed to not hanging them on the skirting board).
Mark K

"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
snip

I hope you're not implying I'm "stupid". I have a number of good
reasons for wanting to run wires IN a purpose made skirting board:

But that is not what you originally said, so yes I am saying that you
are stupid and from what you latter went on to say I would suggest
that many 7 year old kids have more understanding than you will ever
have.

You're a frecking moron IMO.

On 31 Mar 2005 10:55:06 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:


I hope you're not implying I'm "stupid". I have a number of good
reasons for wanting to run wires IN a purpose made skirting board:

Certainly not, but it would saved a lot of everybody's time if you had
taken a little more trouble to explain the actual situation.


It would be utterly pointless to run wiring INSIDE THE WALL behind a
skirting board.

In the UK, it is common practice to attach cables to walls and plaster
or plasterboard over them. Then the skirting is fixed over that.
Thus the cables are hidden. Since the skirting is usually nailed to
the wall through the plaster, one doesn't want cables there.



The house is made of hard lava stone and I have no idea where the
stones project close to the surface of the plaster, so I'm not going
to start cutting grooves in it.
It is in an earthquake zone, so I want to keep as much structural
integrity as possible ( no 50mm+ deep grooves !)
It IS by far more unsafe to run wires in walls because people DO hang
pictures and shelves there (unlike skirting boards), in every house,
hence the big market for cable detectors.
I may want to add low voltage wiring at a later stage, from green
energy generation, so I want electrics to be accessible.
I may want to add (suitably heavy duty) spurs to extensions some
distance from the consumer unit at a later stage.

Fine, so you are talking about a totally different situation with
different construction methods and a different environment.

You posted your original question on a UK newsgroup with no
information that would lead anybody to believe that you were doing
this in other than a standard UK construction house.

Several people then took the trouble to explain to you why running
cables behind skirting was a) not a good idea and b) not permitted by
the wiring standards written to cover the UK situation.


Then you gradually introduce more information about the real situation
and complain that the advise you were given doesn't apply. Of course
it doesn't apply.



And last but not least: I have absolutely no faith in alleged
"experts" (In particular those who work for governments), they tend to
be self-opinionated assholes out to create work for themselves or
braindead drones whom I have proved wrong on various occasions .
That's why I asked the question here, where there is a higher chance
of common sense replies from normal people.

You have had a great deal of common sense from common sense people. I
agree with you regarding your comments about governments and
over-regulation.

However for once, the standard used in the regulation is a reasonable
attempt to create a safe situation in the environment for which it was
intended - i.e. the practical recommendation *for the environment
intended* does line up with the standard reasonably well. Of course
it isn't perfect, but it is not generally inconvenient and has a lower
risk than if people runs cables where and in which direction they
think.




As you can see from the above, UK regulations would prevent me from
installing a common sense and adaptable wiring circuit.

I am not sure that they would if you were implementing the skirting as
a box.

They might be
fine for your bog-average brit box but not for more exotic foreign
structures that will be adapted to green energy in the coming years.

I hope that the next earthquake doesn't cause it to all fall down.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 31 Mar 2005 10:55:06 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:


In the UK, it is common practice to attach cables to walls and plaster
or plasterboard over them. Then the skirting is fixed over that.
Thus the cables are hidden. Since the skirting is usually nailed to
the wall through the plaster, one doesn't want cables there.


Hypothetical situation to throw a spanner in the works.
What would you say if there was say a utility room on the back of a house,
it had been boarded out and plastered over. Used as a storage room for
years, the owner of the house then decides he wants electricity in the
room.Part P doesnt apply. Floor is concrete, he doesn't want channels dug
into the plasterwork to save his wallpaper from being ruined, doesnt want
ugly conduit stuck to the wall. When a room is plasterboarded out, they
normally leave a gap at the bottom of the boards, enough room for cables to
lie underneath and the cables would be at floor level. Skirting board is the
type they sell in B&Q, curved at the top on one side, bevelled on the other,
curved side on show.
Would that be a good enough reason to run cables behind the skiring boards?
A lot of people do make use of that No More Nails these days, and even if it
was nailed to the wall, the nails wouldnt be right down at floor level.
If not, how would this problem be overcome? Obviously a fussy customer but
the customer wants it done with the least amount of damage and repair to his
room.

LetterBee wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 31 Mar 2005 10:55:06 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:


In the UK, it is common practice to attach cables to walls and plaster
or plasterboard over them. Then the skirting is fixed over that.
Thus the cables are hidden. Since the skirting is usually nailed to
the wall through the plaster, one doesn't want cables there.



Hypothetical situation to throw a spanner in the works.
What would you say if there was say a utility room on the back of a house,
it had been boarded out and plastered over. Used as a storage room for
years, the owner of the house then decides he wants electricity in the
room.Part P doesnt apply. Floor is concrete, he doesn't want channels dug
into the plasterwork to save his wallpaper from being ruined, doesnt want
ugly conduit stuck to the wall. When a room is plasterboarded out, they
normally leave a gap at the bottom of the boards, enough room for cables to
lie underneath and the cables would be at floor level. Skirting board is the
type they sell in B&Q, curved at the top on one side, bevelled on the other,
curved side on show.
Would that be a good enough reason to run cables behind the skiring boards?
A lot of people do make use of that No More Nails these days, and even if it
was nailed to the wall, the nails wouldnt be right down at floor level.
If not, how would this problem be overcome? Obviously a fussy customer but
the customer wants it done with the least amount of damage and repair to his
room.



Now this might just be me being a complete masochist but faced with
roughly this problem I dug a channel in the concrete floor. Perhaps,
with hindsight, not the smartest move as it was $)£!"(!* hard work
(running behind the skirting wasn't an option as there was a patio door
in the way. The only other option was drop down from the ceiling which
would of been a hellish job as well) but it has resulted in a job with
minimal visual damage.

Would this be of interest:-

http://www.duration.co.uk/trimskirt.htm


also RadioSpares have dado and skirting trunking.

But it may only be suitable(safetywise) for data and low voltage cables?

Keith G. Powell

markzoom wrote:


Then you would expect to find wires either vertically above or bellow
the said outlet.

... and somehow be expected not to hang pictures or shelves above
them, duh (as opposed to not hanging them on the skirting board).

Picture pins don't go deep; you'd be unlucky to penetrate to typical
cable depth (for 'normal' plasterboard + skim, the pins will only just
go through into the void). For hollow stud walls, cables will either run
loose (so not be penetrated anyway) or be neatly clipped to the side of
the stud (if an original fixing). And whether the walls are hollow or
hefty-brick, it's rare (no, not impossible, just rare) for socket cables
to run *up* the wall - 9 times out of 10 or more they're fed from
unnerneaf. Drops from above are common only for lightswitches, which in
practice are close enough to the edges of walls to be out of the way of
picture hanging.

Now, chummie with his new drill and an unshakeable determination to put
up shelves - that's a little different, as the drill bit will go deeper
than a picture-hook pin. We're still saved most of the time by the
actual typical routing of cable; and in the case where chummie has
neither clue nor cable detector, the most likely effect of hitting a
cable is a good old flash as he causes an L-to-E or L-to-N short,
followed by a callout to an electrician ;-) It's rare indeed (but
happened in that MP's daughter's kitchen!) to be so unlucky as to hit
only the L, and then put a plug-n-screw in so as to make contact with
the copper conductor...

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:21:17 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring
Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring
behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the
place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful.

What if you have sockets on said skirtings though?

(Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish)
skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings)


I think that it wouldn't be allowable nowadays, although possibly
where you were, the wiring might have originally run in steel conduit.
That would give the appropriate protection.

Fortunately I don't have to give a blind **** what some snotty little
bunch of backward beurocrats deem "allowable", but what's safe and
sensible. I will therefore not carve cracks into structural walls in
an earthquake zone, nor will I put mains cabling into walls where
pictures and shelves are likely to be hung. I will instead construct
suitable skirting board to take my wiring and sockets and have a safe,
easily inspectable, aestetic and adaptable electrical system that can
be rewired, upgraded or modified in a day with the minimal of fuss and
expense.
Mark K.

"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...
"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run
behind
skirting boards?

Nails.


There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to
contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious
answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~(

I am sure that you also consider any subversive lowlife who doesn't
paint their internal walls regulation Magnolia utterly despicable.
Your ilk is a big reason I'm getting a place abroad, actually. I'm fed
up with the anals taking over the UK.

Mr Zoom, well go to free and easy Australia, where they make Part P look
like anarchy.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

al wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote
If someone *was* running wires behind skirting you'd sort of assume they'd
have the sense not to nail through them when fixing the boards on.
Or use "No more nails" to glue it on ...

But then the chocolate blocks wouldn't be accessible ...

Owain

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
The wood needs to be treated with fire retardant.

Why?

Terminals and unsheathed cores have to be in noncombustible enclosures,
but *sheathed* cables are routinely run through wood joists, behind
panelling etc.

Owain

John Rumm wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring
Regulations.
What if you have sockets on said skirtings though?

Horizontally from visible accessories is a permitted zone. The fact that
it's at skirting level doesn't change that.

The point here (for UK regs) is that the permitted zones includes around
the top of the room (coving level) but NOT around the bottom of the room
(skirting level).

Owain

On 31 Mar 2005 15:08:44 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:

Fortunately I don't have to give a blind **** what some snotty little
bunch of backward beurocrats deem "allowable", but what's safe and
sensible. I will therefore not carve cracks into structural walls in
an earthquake zone, nor will I put mains cabling into walls where
pictures and shelves are likely to be hung. I will instead construct
suitable skirting board to take my wiring and sockets and have a safe,
easily inspectable, aestetic and adaptable electrical system that can
be rewired, upgraded or modified in a day with the minimal of fuss and
expense.
Mark K.


If you had already decided that this was what you were going to do,
why did you bother posting the question with incomplete information in
the first place, wasting everybody's time and then behaving
obnoxiously?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:


If you had already decided that this was what you were going to do,
why did you bother posting the question with incomplete information in
the first place, wasting everybody's time and then behaving
obnoxiously?

WDADLHB? ;_}

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 31 Mar 2005 15:08:44 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:

Fortunately I don't have to give a blind **** what some snotty little
bunch of backward beurocrats deem "allowable", but what's safe and
sensible. I will therefore not carve cracks into structural walls in
an earthquake zone, nor will I put mains cabling into walls where
pictures and shelves are likely to be hung. I will instead construct
suitable skirting board to take my wiring and sockets and have a safe,
easily inspectable, aestetic and adaptable electrical system that can
be rewired, upgraded or modified in a day with the minimal of fuss and
expense.
Mark K.


If you had already decided that this was what you were going to do,
why did you bother posting the question with incomplete information in
the first place, wasting everybody's time and then behaving
obnoxiously?

Lord Hall, I'm glad he is going to an earthquake zone. We already have one
loony off to Italy, so things are looking good. All we need is Tone to win
the next election and frighten away more loonies.

When are you emigrating?


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

markzoom wrote:
I hope you're not implying I'm "stupid". I have a number of good
reasons for wanting to run wires IN a purpose made skirting board:

You're talking about manufacturing your own skirting trunking from wood
- which isn't really the same as skirting board.

I may want to add low voltage wiring at a later stage, from green
energy generation, so I want electrics to be accessible.

From a UK regs perspective, low voltage wiring could not be run in the
same compartment (single trunking) as mains, unless the LV cable is
insulated to mains voltage. I think Cat5 data cables usually are, but
phone, alarm, doorbell and others might not be. Multi-compartment
trunking is used in the UK to get round this, with cunning adaptor bits
where the lv faceplates are mounted over the mains compartment.

From a practical perspective, running long lenths of mains in close
proximity to alarm/phone/speaker wiring may cause electromagnetic
incompatiblity (hum on speakers or phone, false triggering on alarms).

Another thought - how are you heating the place? If you are having
skirting trunking all the way round, it might make it a bit awkward
getting CH pipes from under the floor to radiators on the wall above.

I worked in an office where exactly what you are talking about was done,
a skirting offset from the wall about 2" with CH pipes and phone wiring
in the gap. (That was in the days when a fax machine was new and
exciting, so no gigabit ethernet to the desktop.)

Owain

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:38:49 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



Lord Hall, I'm glad he is going to an earthquake zone. We already have one
loony off to Italy, so things are looking good. All we need is Tone to win
the next election and frighten away more loonies.

When are you emigrating?

I seem to spend as much time out of the country as in it these days,
so that's a moot point.

Certainly the thought of Tone not losing (he isn't capable of winning
anything) the next election may well frighten a lot of people away.

I think that the only answer is for everybody to vote for me....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Owain" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
The wood needs to be treated with fire retardant.

Why?

Terminals and unsheathed cores have to be in noncombustible
enclosures,
but *sheathed* cables are routinely run through wood joists, behind
panelling etc.


But this would not be classed as panelling or structural members, it
will be (in effect) a form of trunking and AIUI electrical trunking
needs to be non-combustible.

Are you saying that electrical enclosures don't now need to be
non-combustible ?

"doozer" wrote in message
...
LetterBee wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On 31 Mar 2005 10:55:06 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:


In the UK, it is common practice to attach cables to walls and plaster
or plasterboard over them. Then the skirting is fixed over that.
Thus the cables are hidden. Since the skirting is usually nailed to
the wall through the plaster, one doesn't want cables there.



Hypothetical situation to throw a spanner in the works.
What would you say if there was say a utility room on the back of a
house, it had been boarded out and plastered over. Used as a storage room
for years, the owner of the house then decides he wants electricity in
the room.Part P doesnt apply. Floor is concrete, he doesn't want channels
dug into the plasterwork to save his wallpaper from being ruined, doesnt
want ugly conduit stuck to the wall. When a room is plasterboarded out,
they normally leave a gap at the bottom of the boards, enough room for
cables to lie underneath and the cables would be at floor level. Skirting
board is the type they sell in B&Q, curved at the top on one side,
bevelled on the other, curved side on show.
Would that be a good enough reason to run cables behind the skiring
boards? A lot of people do make use of that No More Nails these days, and
even if it was nailed to the wall, the nails wouldnt be right down at
floor level.
If not, how would this problem be overcome? Obviously a fussy customer
but the customer wants it done with the least amount of damage and repair
to his room.

Now this might just be me being a complete masochist but faced with
roughly this problem I dug a channel in the concrete floor. Perhaps, with
hindsight, not the smartest move as it was $)£!"(!* hard work (running
behind the skirting wasn't an option as there was a patio door in the way.
The only other option was drop down from the ceiling which would of been a
hellish job as well) but it has resulted in a job with minimal visual
damage.

Fair enough but if the customer insisted you could not damage the walls and
you installed the wiring at floor level behind the skirting boards, would
that fall foul of the regs?

LetterBee wrote:
"doozer" wrote in message
...

LetterBee wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


On 31 Mar 2005 10:55:06 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:


In the UK, it is common practice to attach cables to walls and plaster
or plasterboard over them. Then the skirting is fixed over that.
Thus the cables are hidden. Since the skirting is usually nailed to
the wall through the plaster, one doesn't want cables there.



Hypothetical situation to throw a spanner in the works.
What would you say if there was say a utility room on the back of a
house, it had been boarded out and plastered over. Used as a storage room
for years, the owner of the house then decides he wants electricity in
the room.Part P doesnt apply. Floor is concrete, he doesn't want channels
dug into the plasterwork to save his wallpaper from being ruined, doesnt
want ugly conduit stuck to the wall. When a room is plasterboarded out,
they normally leave a gap at the bottom of the boards, enough room for
cables to lie underneath and the cables would be at floor level. Skirting
board is the type they sell in B&Q, curved at the top on one side,
bevelled on the other, curved side on show.
Would that be a good enough reason to run cables behind the skiring
boards? A lot of people do make use of that No More Nails these days, and
even if it was nailed to the wall, the nails wouldnt be right down at
floor level.
If not, how would this problem be overcome? Obviously a fussy customer
but the customer wants it done with the least amount of damage and repair
to his room.

Now this might just be me being a complete masochist but faced with
roughly this problem I dug a channel in the concrete floor. Perhaps, with
hindsight, not the smartest move as it was $)£!"(!* hard work (running
behind the skirting wasn't an option as there was a patio door in the way.
The only other option was drop down from the ceiling which would of been a
hellish job as well) but it has resulted in a job with minimal visual
damage.


Fair enough but if the customer insisted you could not damage the walls and
you installed the wiring at floor level behind the skirting boards, would
that fall foul of the regs?



AFAIK the regs don't apply in this particular case as it was low voltage
data cable not mains.

In article ,
doozer writes:
AFAIK the regs don't apply in this particular case as it was low voltage
data cable not mains.

Wiring regs apply to all fixed cabling, including extra low voltage
data cabling.

The original Part P did apply to all such wiring. I suggested a
correction to this in my consultation response, but like most of
the responses, that was ignored. When the ODPM realised that you
now needed to do a building notice to change the batteries in your
doorbell (and for that matter to do any Cat 5 or aerial cabling
anywhere as it was not in the list of exemptions), they did issue
an update, but I don't recall what it said, except the first
correction still excluded anything in the kitchen (i.e. still need
a building notice to change batteries in a doorbell in the kitchen).
I haven't bothered keeping up with their subsequent updates -- it's
just too depressing seeing exactly how incompitent they really are.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:09:02 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
doozer writes:
AFAIK the regs don't apply in this particular case as it was low voltage
data cable not mains.

Wiring regs apply to all fixed cabling, including extra low voltage
data cabling.

The original Part P did apply to all such wiring. I suggested a
correction to this in my consultation response, but like most of
the responses, that was ignored. When the ODPM realised that you
now needed to do a building notice to change the batteries in your
doorbell (and for that matter to do any Cat 5 or aerial cabling
anywhere as it was not in the list of exemptions), they did issue
an update, but I don't recall what it said, except the first
correction still excluded anything in the kitchen (i.e. still need
a building notice to change batteries in a doorbell in the kitchen).
I haven't bothered keeping up with their subsequent updates -- it's
just too depressing seeing exactly how incompitent they really are.

Andrew, you may have caused use of extra Parliamentary time.:-)

The amendment was rushed out as

The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...4/20043210.htm

No.2 was the first cock up and No.1 was about something else.

There were clarifying memos after that.






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:09:02 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
doozer writes:
AFAIK the regs don't apply in this particular case as it was low voltage
data cable not mains.

Wiring regs apply to all fixed cabling, including extra low voltage
data cabling.

The original Part P did apply to all such wiring. I suggested a
correction to this in my consultation response, but like most of
the responses, that was ignored. When the ODPM realised that you
now needed to do a building notice to change the batteries in your
doorbell (and for that matter to do any Cat 5 or aerial cabling
anywhere as it was not in the list of exemptions), they did issue
an update, but I don't recall what it said, except the first
correction still excluded anything in the kitchen (i.e. still need
a building notice to change batteries in a doorbell in the kitchen).
I haven't bothered keeping up with their subsequent updates -- it's
just too depressing seeing exactly how incompitent they really are.

Andrew, you may have caused use of extra Parliamentary time.:-)

Oh yes, you may be right -- I hadn't noticed that;-)

The amendment was rushed out as

The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...4/20043210.htm

No.2 was the first cock up and No.1 was about something else.

There were clarifying memos after that.

Still need to do a building notice and get an inspection done
when changing the battery in a doorbell in the kitchen though.
Complete plonkers the lot of them. I wish I had a doorbell in
the kitchen -- it would be worth submitting a building notice
just for the stupidity and publicity. I suppose I could submit
a building notice to install a doorbell in the kitchen ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:47:51 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:



Still need to do a building notice and get an inspection done
when changing the battery in a doorbell in the kitchen though.
Complete plonkers the lot of them. I wish I had a doorbell in
the kitchen -- it would be worth submitting a building notice
just for the stupidity and publicity. I suppose I could submit
a building notice to install a doorbell in the kitchen ;-)

Go on ...We dare you ...And get a film crew in to film it ...I ams uer
many of us in this Ng would happily pay a share of the cost .:-)
Stuart






Shift THELEVER to reply.

On 30 Mar 2005 15:39:00 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:

Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards?
Mark

I'd use mineral insulated cable with a copper sheath, and make sure
the circuit is on an RCD. Probably still against the regs though.

The ends of the cable need to be sealed with the right glands as the
insulation absorb moisture, and it has to be bent carefully without
going below the min bend radius.

The cable is quite thin so would fit in a rebate channeled into the
skirting, but some derating may be necessary as it's not in free air.

cheers,
Pete.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:47:51 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:



Still need to do a building notice and get an inspection done
when changing the battery in a doorbell in the kitchen though.
Complete plonkers the lot of them. I wish I had a doorbell in
the kitchen -- it would be worth submitting a building notice
just for the stupidity and publicity. I suppose I could submit
a building notice to install a doorbell in the kitchen ;-)

It would be worth investing the fee to do that provided that
appropriate press coverage could be arranged.

This gives me some ideas......



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
The wood needs to be treated with fire retardant.
Why?
Terminals and unsheathed cores have to be in noncombustible
enclosures,
but *sheathed* cables are routinely run through wood joists, behind
panelling etc.
But this would not be classed as panelling or structural members, it
will be (in effect) a form of trunking and AIUI electrical trunking
needs to be non-combustible.

Trunking is intended for unsheathed cores. This isn't trunking, it's
ornamental joinery.

Are you saying that electrical enclosures don't now need to be
non-combustible ?

No, I said above that 'terminals and unsheathed cores have to be in
noncombusitble enclosuires'

Anyway, as it's outside the UK, UK regulations don't apply.

Owain

Andy Hall wrote:
I suppose I could submit
a building notice to install a doorbell in the kitchen ;-)
It would be worth investing the fee to do that provided that
appropriate press coverage could be arranged.
This gives me some ideas......

It would be most apt if done by someone in Mr Prescott's consttuency.

Owain

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:02:46 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
I suppose I could submit
a building notice to install a doorbell in the kitchen ;-)
It would be worth investing the fee to do that provided that
appropriate press coverage could be arranged.
This gives me some ideas......

It would be most apt if done by someone in Mr Prescott's consttuency.

Owain

.... or in Mr. Redwood's.....




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:38:49 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



Lord Hall, I'm glad he is going to an earthquake zone. We already have
one
loony off to Italy, so things are looking good. All we need is Tone to
win
the next election and frighten away more loonies.

When are you emigrating?

I seem to spend as much time out of the country as in it these days,
so that's a moot point.

Certainly the thought of Tone not losing (he isn't capable of winning
anything) the next election may well frighten a lot of people away.

I think that the only answer is for everybody to vote for me....

The thought of Lord Hall as PM. I shudder to think!!!


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil wrote:

The thought of Lord Hall as PM.

Got to be better than Brown (or even carrying on with Cambell)...

I shudder to think!!!

Does it help?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ...
"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...
"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run
behind
skirting boards?

Nails.


There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to
contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious
answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~(

I am sure that you also consider any subversive lowlife who doesn't
paint their internal walls regulation Magnolia utterly despicable.
Your ilk is a big reason I'm getting a place abroad, actually. I'm fed
up with the anals taking over the UK.

Mr Zoom, well go to free and easy Australia, where they make Part P look
like anarchy.

Sorry, there are other countries in the world people can go to live,
you know.
As for banging nails in skirting board, You can be absolutely dead
effing sure people will bang them in walls, not so with properly
screwed skirting board.
M.K.




_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ...
"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
snip

Exactly, you interpreted my words correctly.
Like I also said later, the wires would run IN the skirting board,
not
behind it, since it would be a shallow box.

Oh right, you mean (skirting) trunking and not what you said in the
subject line, why can't you say what you mean, or do you expect
everyone to be mind readers ?...You utter ****, or are you just
another brainless troll.

Sorry Mr.Anal, I thought it was obvious that it's pointless PLASTERING
wiring into a wall behind a skirting board. Next you'll try to tell me
that it's also evil to have low voltage wiring circuits in a house.
M.K.

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 31 Mar 2005 10:05:58 -0800, (markzoom)
wrote:

(s--p--o--n--i--x) wrote in message ...
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:43:27 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

markzoom wrote:

Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss
about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring
Gestapo. As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them

If your question was not about wiring regs, then what exactly did you
want to know?

Err, I think he asked whether there were any PRACTICAL reasons for not
doing so.

s

Exactly, you interpreted my words correctly.
Like I also said later, the wires would run IN the skirting board, not
behind it, since it would be a shallow box.

Actually your original post, and the subject used the word *behind*.

SInce this is a UK newsgroup, it's perfectly reasonable that your
question would refer to the common practice of a wooden skirting board
attached to the wall with nails or screws.

Fairly obviously the wiring standards are based on the same situation.
the reasons are real and practical, given the environment.

You've changed the game as the thread has proceeded, so it's rather
silly to moan now when you didn't provide all the information about
the situation, but just little pieces.

It all rather depends on what I find when I rip off the old board. If
there is a large enough gap between floorboards and plaster then
that's where the wires will go. I may or may not put steel strip in
front of it, it rather depends on availability since many things are
unobtainable on islands (and steel rusts pretty quick on them).

There is available various forms of skirting trunking system both here
and in other countries. Most, but not all is more suited to an
office or factory than a home. Although this involves running cables
within the band that would normally not be used by dint of the
standard if the cable were hidden behind the skirting; this is a
different situation.

Ah OK, thanks . I doubt it's obtainable there though, plastic wouldn't
look right in such a place either.



Another reason I don't want to attack the walls (apart from it being a
total shag) is because it is originally a stone house underneath and I
might end up trying to carve grooves into lava. Another alternative
might be to run conduit above the (squared) skirting board and put a
quarter round moulding above the rectangular conduit to make it
neater.
Mark K.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ...
"markzoom" wrote in message
om...
snip

The skirting board would be more of a box than a board (2x battens,
ply and moulding to round the top) and looking at the sockets it
would
be obvious that the wires run in it.

The wood needs to be treated with fire retardant.

Good suggestion.
Possible downsides would be availability, wether the chemicals are a
health hazard in themselves and wether the stuff can be shipped by
air.
M.K.