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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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wiring behind skirting boards
Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards?
Mark |
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Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind
skirting boards? Nails. -- Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email --- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) --- |
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"Colin Wilson" wrote in message t... "markzoom" wrote in message om... Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Nails. There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~( |
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Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 30 Mar 2005 15:39:00 -0800, (markzoom) wrote: Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Mark Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful. Ah OK, thanks. Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring Gestapo. As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them hitting wiring in walls than in skirting boards (where pictures don't hang). Mark |
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Colin Wilson wrote in message et...
Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Nails. Ah... Fortunately I don't plan on hanging pictures on the skirting board and don't know anyone who does. The skirting board would be ply, fixed to top and bottom battens and moulding on the top (IOW no reason to put nails where the wires are). Cheers, Mark |
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Andy Hall wrote:
On 30 Mar 2005 15:39:00 -0800, (markzoom) wrote: Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Mark Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful. is there always a wirinjg inspection when a domestic property changes hands ? who does it and how can they tell if there's any wiring behind the skirting ? genuine questions RT |
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"markzoom" wrote in message om... Colin Wilson wrote in message et... Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Nails. Ah... Fortunately I don't plan on hanging pictures on the skirting board and don't know anyone who does. What about someone you don't know about yet ?!... The skirting board would be ply, fixed to top and bottom battens and moulding on the top (IOW no reason to put nails where the wires are). Cheers, Mark You can't, but who know who might at sometime... Do the job correctly or not at all. |
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Andy Hall wrote:
Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful. What if you have sockets on said skirtings though? (Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish) skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... snip What if you have sockets on said skirtings though? (Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish) skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings) Then you would expect to find wires either vertically above or bellow the said outlet. |
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:43:27 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: markzoom wrote: Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring Gestapo. As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them If your question was not about wiring regs, then what exactly did you want to know? Err, I think he asked whether there were any PRACTICAL reasons for not doing so. s |
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to There should be a civility test before people are allowed to post on usenet as well.... contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~( As they say, there is only one stupid question - the one you fail to ask. Consider also that wiring behind skirtings is common practice is a large amount of UK housing stock. Not to current standards obviously, but less risk that you might think with a decent thickness skirting. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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markzoom wrote:
Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring Gestapo. As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them If your question was not about wiring regs, then what exactly did you want to know? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:36:59 GMT, "[news]" wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: On 30 Mar 2005 15:39:00 -0800, (markzoom) wrote: Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Mark Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful. is there always a wirinjg inspection when a domestic property changes hands ? Generally only if the purchaser pays for a "full survey" or electrical inspection. A lender's inspection may well not since the lender is mainly interested in knowing if his security in the form of the property is covered. This may change with the new Sellers Pack idea. However, there is normally a questionnaire as part of the conveyancing to which the vendor has to reply. An electrical contractor should not have done anything as stupid as putting wiring behind skirting. So the implication would be of a poorly executed DIY job who does it and how can they tell if there's any wiring behind the skirting ? Normally an electrician belonging to one of the approaved trade associations. It's pretty easy to find live wiring with a cheap detector that you can buy on any hardware store. genuine questions RT -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:21:17 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful. What if you have sockets on said skirtings though? (Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish) skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings) I think that it wouldn't be allowable nowadays, although possibly where you were, the wiring might have originally run in steel conduit. That would give the appropriate protection. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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In article ,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Nails. There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~( Not, actually. How often have you nailed something to a skirting board? Far more likely to drill into a cable buried in a wall, as most DIY first timers wouldn't necessarily know the regulations as regards those. If someone *was* running wires behind skirting you'd sort of assume they'd have the sense not to nail through them when fixing the boards on. -- *I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
What if you have sockets on said skirtings though? Then you would expect to find wires either vertically above or below the said outlet. Umm, the permitted-cable-routes explicitly allow *horizontal* runs from visible accessories too... so not only would the clued-up householder/electrician would consider the possibility of cables being behind the skirting in an older property, but they're even Permitted Under Current Regs. Admittedly, horizontal runs are rarer in practice than vertical ones, but they're common enough in kitchens where there's sockets all round the worktops... |
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In article ,
John Rumm wrote: (Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish) skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings) They're more like 18" in my 'public' rooms. And have got all the sockets etc flush mounted in them. -- *Just remember...if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
(Thinking back to the Victorian place I grew up in - tall (ish) skirtings (c. 8") - all sockets surface mounted on the skirtings) Then you would expect to find wires either vertically above or bellow the said outlet. or according to the current regs, horizontally aligned as well... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
... If someone *was* running wires behind skirting you'd sort of assume they'd have the sense not to nail through them when fixing the boards on. Or use "No more nails" to glue it on ...  a |
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In article ,
Andy Hall writes: is there always a wirinjg inspection when a domestic property changes hands ? Generally only if the purchaser pays for a "full survey" or electrical In my experience, no wiring inspection is performed in the case of a "full survey". Indeed, the state of all services is explicitly excluded from a full survey. If the surveyor happens to notice something extremely obvious like a bit of rubber wire with the insulation all fallen off, you _might_ just get a comment along the lines of "Some deteroration to the wiring was noticed in the loft, and we would recommend that you engage a speciallist company to carry out a more detailed inspection". -- Andrew Gabriel |
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Do the job correctly or not at all. I agree. I briefly considered running network cables behind a piece of skirting in an area where putting them under the floor would mean drilling a large number of joists. I quickly realized that putting them behind the skirting rule broke (software development) rule number 1: Always do the least surprising thing. You might not want to bang nails into the skirting but what if the next owner of the house notices a crack along the top of the skirting (where it's come loose because you have crammed a load of cable behind it) and whacks a nail in. Hmmm not a nice picture. Having said that though you can buy skirting that is designed to carry cables. It's pretty ugly stuff and I wouldn't want it in my home but you might like it. |
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doozer wrote:
Do the job correctly or not at all. I agree. I briefly considered running network cables behind a piece of skirting in an area where putting them under the floor would mean drilling a large number of joists. I quickly realized that putting them behind the skirting rule broke (software development) rule number 1: Always do the least surprising thing. You might not want to bang nails into the skirting but what if the next owner of the house notices a crack along the top of the skirting (where it's come loose because you have crammed a load of cable behind it) and whacks a nail in. Hmmm not a nice picture. could one not place galvanised steel capping over the cables as is done when cables are buried in the walls ? RT |
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"[news]" wrote in message news 
snip could one not place galvanised steel capping over the cables as is done when cables are buried in the walls ? And what do you use to hold that stuff to the wall with, all the galvanised steel capping I've ever come across has been hailed on and all the new capping I've come across doesn't have holes for those nails - go figurer.... |
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"Some deteroration to the wiring was noticed in the
loft, and we would recommend that you engage a speciallist company to carry out a more detailed inspection". Indeed. In my recent experiences they are very unlikley to do anything potentially risky like entering the loft or lifting a carpet! They seem to inspect just what they can /see/. Alex. |
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[news] wrote:
doozer wrote: Do the job correctly or not at all. I agree. I briefly considered running network cables behind a piece of skirting in an area where putting them under the floor would mean drilling a large number of joists. I quickly realized that putting them behind the skirting rule broke (software development) rule number 1: Always do the least surprising thing. You might not want to bang nails into the skirting but what if the next owner of the house notices a crack along the top of the skirting (where it's come loose because you have crammed a load of cable behind it) and whacks a nail in. Hmmm not a nice picture. could one not place galvanised steel capping over the cables as is done when cables are buried in the walls ? RT You could but I don't really rate the coverings I have seen. I am pretty sure that I could bang a nail through them without really trying. If I was putting a fair sized nail into thick skirting and expected to be nailing into breeze block I could easily be inclined to hit it hard enough to puncture a wire cap. I would have to have a really really good reason to run a cable behind a skirting board (even a concrete floor wasn't enough to make me run it behind skirting). |
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In article ,
doozer wrote: I agree. I briefly considered running network cables behind a piece of skirting in an area where putting them under the floor would mean drilling a large number of joists. I quickly realized that putting them behind the skirting rule broke (software development) rule number 1: Always do the least surprising thing. You might not want to bang nails into the skirting but what if the next owner of the house notices a crack along the top of the skirting (where it's come loose because you have crammed a load of cable behind it) and whacks a nail in. Hmmm not a nice picture. It's not exactly life threatening nailing through network cables, though? And exactly the same can apply to nailing down a floorboard where the joist has been notched for cable runs too. Having said that though you can buy skirting that is designed to carry cables. It's pretty ugly stuff and I wouldn't want it in my home but you might like it. -- *Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , doozer wrote: I agree. I briefly considered running network cables behind a piece of skirting in an area where putting them under the floor would mean drilling a large number of joists. I quickly realized that putting them behind the skirting rule broke (software development) rule number 1: Always do the least surprising thing. You might not want to bang nails into the skirting but what if the next owner of the house notices a crack along the top of the skirting (where it's come loose because you have crammed a load of cable behind it) and whacks a nail in. Hmmm not a nice picture. It's not exactly life threatening nailing through network cables, though? And exactly the same can apply to nailing down a floorboard where the joist has been notched for cable runs too. Having said that though you can buy skirting that is designed to carry cables. It's pretty ugly stuff and I wouldn't want it in my home but you might like it. I wasn't implying that nailing through a network cable was a life threatening problem but that running cable behind a skirting isn't a good idea in general because it's not necessarily expected. All the electricity cables (bar one) in our place run through holes in the joist at least 50mm from the top so there is little danger of hitting them with nails or screws. I don't know about you but I don't just bang nails into the floor because I expect cables and pipes to be under the floor running every which way so I check first. I don't expect them to be hiding behind skirting (but on the occasions where I have nailed old skirting I have checked). |
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markzoom wrote in message om... Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Mark How old is the house, ive encountered gas, water, and electric running vertical horizontal and every angle between, in walls and skirting. Most Victorian/30s houses, which still foam over 50% of the housing stock, had sockets installed on the skirting with no conduit and lead or rubber cable. Arguably less chance of someone at a latter date fitting shelves to the skirting. However we now live in nanny land, "practical" is a word Rarely found in legislation. -- Mark§ |
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message news
snip could one not place galvanised steel capping over the cables as is done when cables are buried in the walls ? And what do you use to hold that stuff to the wall with, all the galvanised steel capping I've ever come across has been hailed on and all the new capping I've come across doesn't have holes for those nails - go figurer.... err, you don't nail through the capping, you nail adjacent to it with clout nails, pinning the edge of the capping to the wall. RT |
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"[news]" wrote in message ... :::Jerry:::: wrote: "[news]" wrote in message news
snip could one not place galvanised steel capping over the cables as is done when cables are buried in the walls ? And what do you use to hold that stuff to the wall with, all the galvanised steel capping I've ever come across has been hailed on and all the new capping I've come across doesn't have holes for those nails - go figurer.... err, you don't nail through the capping, you nail adjacent to it with clout nails, pinning the edge of the capping to the wall. The point is, no pun intended, the nail is quite capable of penetrating the metal and being driven into the wall - what do you think is going to happen when Mr Bean goes thumping a 3 inch masonry nail into the loose skirting board ?... Doh! |
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In article ,
doozer wrote: And exactly the same can apply to nailing down a floorboard where the joist has been notched for cable runs too. Having said that though you can buy skirting that is designed to carry cables. It's pretty ugly stuff and I wouldn't want it in my home but you might like it. I wasn't implying that nailing through a network cable was a life threatening problem but that running cable behind a skirting isn't a good idea in general because it's not necessarily expected. Expected by a pro and a first time DIYer ain't the same thing. ;-) All the electricity cables (bar one) in our place run through holes in the joist at least 50mm from the top so there is little danger of hitting them with nails or screws. Yes, they should do, but in older houses where the joists were already notched for cables, many will use them again rather than further weaken the joists by drilling holes. And then there are things like pipes. I don't know about you but I don't just bang nails into the floor because I expect cables and pipes to be under the floor running every which way so I check first. I don't expect them to be hiding behind skirting (but on the occasions where I have nailed old skirting I have checked). But you're being sensible. Plenty of people do just bang in nails to try and cure a creaking floorboard without checking first. I'd say if a skirting had developed a gap, most would simply fill it, as they'd guess hammering in nails isn't necessarily going to fix it as it's more likely the wedges or battens to the wall have failed. But then that's just my view. ;-) -- *Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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It's all very well specifying the directions in which cables may run to a
socket or switch, but for this to be effective, everyone needs to know about it, a situation that will never materialise so long as humans are human. You can still stick a nail through a properly positioned cable if you have no idea where a properly positioned cable would run. You may argue that such people should be banned from doing their own diy, what, putting pictures up? Andy. |
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ...
"Colin Wilson" wrote in message t... "markzoom" wrote in message om... Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Nails. There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~( Of course, you being an epiemy of intelligence, don't put nails in walls but you do nail skirting boards to them instead of using screws, ****. M.K. |
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John Rumm wrote in message ...
markzoom wrote: Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring Gestapo. As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them If your question was not about wiring regs, then what exactly did you want to know? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ I wanted to know if I'd missed something obvious, so I am grateful for your reply. The skirting board would be more of a box than a board (2x battens, ply and moulding to round the top) and looking at the sockets it would be obvious that the wires run in it. Nails would be far more of a risk in the walls than in the skirting board/box, I would say. Mark K. |
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Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 31 Mar 2005 00:56:09 -0800, (markzoom) wrote: Andy Hall wrote in message . .. On 30 Mar 2005 15:39:00 -0800, (markzoom) wrote: Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Mark Fixings for the skirting board and that it is contrary to Wiring Regulations. The latter doesn't mean that you *can't* put wiring behind skirtings but when there is a wiring inspection (e.g as the place changes hands) then it will fail.... This would be tearful. Ah OK, thanks. Fortunately the place is in a free country that doesn't give a toss about wussy wiring regulations and that doesn't have raids by a wiring Gestapo. Ah well.... they probably have bigger issues in that case. Are they a banana exporter by any chance :-) As for nails, one would think there'd be more chance of them hitting wiring in walls than in skirting boards (where pictures don't hang). Mark I'm certainly no advocate of regulation for its own sake, and in general believe that governments are far too intrusive in the freedom of individuals, especially our current regime. One reason why I am getting a place abroad. That said, in the area of wiring, the UK has some of the best considered standards in the world. Although they are called regulations, until January of this year they had no force in law (in England at least) and are a British Standard. In other words, based in general on sound engineering principles and practical considerations. In relation to positioning of wiring, there are several rules and the main ones are to avoid damage to cable resulting in possible electrocution or fire. That is what I considered, since I intend to run the wires IN the skirting board/box, not behind it. There would be no reason for someone to put nails/screws in the ply part of the box. The only thing someone might consider is screwing a rubber doorstop to it, something which I can pre-empt. So the rule for a room if you want to run cables hidden is that you can: - run them at a depth of more than 50mm so that they are out of harm's way - install serious metal covers over them to prevent screws and nails penetrating - run the cables in a defined way. For this, you can route cables horizontally or vertically from a socket or switch or in a band 150mm wide from the corner of a room or top of a wall, but not up from a floor. Hence, behind skirting boards is out. The reasons for this are obvious and practical. If you are talking about hanging things on the wall, you avoid areas horizontal or vertical to sockets and switches or close to corners. I'd say that almost no-one worries about the position of sockets when they hang a picture and I can't see regulations becoming so anal (though I may be wrong) that you wouldn't be allowed to hang pictures above your sockets. Skirting boards are typically fitted on top of plaster using nails or screws. If there are cables buried beneath the plaster, the implications are pretty obvious. Fair point, but it would be a box with the wires running IN the "board", not behind it. The other obvious point in this is that while you might know where cables run, a later occupier of the property may not, so the standards bear that in mind as well. If you prefer to think of this as wussy regulations then fine, but this particular issue seems like common sense to me. I don't really think gouging grooves deeper than 50 mm in structural walls is exactly common sense though (particularly in an earthquake zone). Mark K. |
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#40
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message ...
"Colin Wilson" wrote in message t... "markzoom" wrote in message om... Are there any practical reasons why wiring should not be run behind skirting boards? Nails. There should be an IQ test by law before people are allowed to contemplate carrying out DIY, the OP's question has such an obvious answer to it that the question shouldn't even need to be asked.... :~( I am sure that you also consider any subversive lowlife who doesn't paint their internal walls regulation Magnolia utterly despicable. Your ilk is a big reason I'm getting a place abroad, actually. I'm fed up with the anals taking over the UK. M.K. |
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