Hello all.

This years project looks set to be a large shed at mums place.

I'll be building from scratch, as I want a challenge and to achieve
something better, more substantial and different from the usual stuff.

It'll be about 18' x 8', part potting shed, part summer house, with
covered veranda deck area. There's a CAD render of the design at
http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shed14.jpg

I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the group on
construction methods and materials.


The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,
50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply, outside with VT&G
weatherboard. I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea? Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere? If so,
what to use?

Timber treatment is another issue. While the floor joists will be
tanalised timber, I don't think my local timber yard has on-site
treatment plant, so everything else (weatherboarding, frame, floor etc)
will be untreated red or white wood. I could then paint or spray a
suitable preservative on, but would it really be worth shopping round
and getting the whole lot prevac treated (which adds about 20% to the
cost)?

Any other construction or material suggestions welcome.

Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?


Cheers all,

--
Steve

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:54:21 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

Hello all.

This years project looks set to be a large shed at mums place.

I'll be building from scratch, as I want a challenge and to achieve
something better, more substantial and different from the usual stuff.

It'll be about 18' x 8', part potting shed, part summer house, with
covered veranda deck area. There's a CAD render of the design at
http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shed14.jpg


Nice design - I think she should be very pleased.


I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the group on
construction methods and materials.


The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

With this, I wouldn't go for more than 450mm centres.

You will need a matrix of brick piers.

Alternatively, what I did was to start with a concrete base and then
use pressure treated wooden bearers on it and the joists orthogonally
on top of that. It's worth putting some DPC material like Visqueen
down to isolate the timbers from the concrete. You can also use
packing pieces on top of the bearers in order to level the final
floor.



Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,

I'd up that to 50x75mm for good strength.

50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply,

I would go for 12mm or even 18mm there because you can fix things to
it. 18mm ply is used in large quantities (or OSB as an alternative)
so it is not that expensive. You will get a much sturdier result.


outside with VT&G
weatherboard.

That's fine.

I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea?

Yes. What I did was to tack nail small spacers to the sides of the
vertical studs such that the Celotex front face was level with the
front of the studs. Then I tape sealed the Celotex to the studs with
metallised tape and ply clad on top of that. This created an air
gap behind and ventilation was arranged to the air gap.


Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere? If so,
what to use?

Celotex has foil on both sides and you do not need an additional
vapour barrier.

It would also be worth insulating the floor and ceiling.

For the floor, build the floor frame and then tack nail spacers in
the same way as I described for the walls. Drop in the Celotex and
put flooring on top of that. I used 18mm T&G for that.

it is also worth insulating the roof. I used exactly the same
technique for that, making sure that there is ventilation on the cold
side.



Timber treatment is another issue. While the floor joists will be
tanalised timber, I don't think my local timber yard has on-site
treatment plant, so everything else (weatherboarding, frame, floor etc)
will be untreated red or white wood. I could then paint or spray a
suitable preservative on, but would it really be worth shopping round
and getting the whole lot prevac treated (which adds about 20% to the
cost)?

I dealt with this by using Cuprinol Clear Wood Preserver. which is a
spirit based product.

When you get your compressor, get a cheap air powered paint sprayer
and then spray both sides of the timbers. Three coats are recommended.
You can apply any other finish afterwards if you want to.




Any other construction or material suggestions welcome.

Use a very good quality roofing felt. The heavy grade is not a lot
more than the cheap shed stuff and lasts a lot longer.




Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?

Not really. I used 16 gauge. 18 gauge is normally used to hold
things together for gluing, not for fixing. You need a nailer that
takes 16ga finish nails.




Cheers all,

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:54:21 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

Hello all.

This years project looks set to be a large shed at mums place.

I'll be building from scratch, as I want a challenge and to achieve
something better, more substantial and different from the usual stuff.

It'll be about 18' x 8', part potting shed, part summer house, with
covered veranda deck area. There's a CAD render of the design at
http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shed14.jpg


Nice design - I think she should be very pleased.


I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the group on
construction methods and materials.


The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

With this, I wouldn't go for more than 450mm centres.

You will need a matrix of brick piers.

That is the plan.

Alternatively, what I did was to start with a concrete base and then
use pressure treated wooden bearers on it and the joists orthogonally
on top of that. It's worth putting some DPC material like Visqueen
down to isolate the timbers from the concrete. You can also use
packing pieces on top of the bearers in order to level the final
floor.



Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,

I'd up that to 50x75mm for good strength.

50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply,

I would go for 12mm or even 18mm there because you can fix things to
it. 18mm ply is used in large quantities (or OSB as an alternative)
so it is not that expensive. You will get a much sturdier result.


outside with VT&G
weatherboard.

That's fine.

I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea?

Yes. What I did was to tack nail small spacers to the sides of the
vertical studs such that the Celotex front face was level with the
front of the studs. Then I tape sealed the Celotex to the studs with
metallised tape and ply clad on top of that. This created an air
gap behind and ventilation was arranged to the air gap.

Ah, good idea.

It would also be worth insulating the floor and ceiling.

They will be.

For the floor, build the floor frame and then tack nail spacers in
the same way as I described for the walls. Drop in the Celotex and
put flooring on top of that. I used 18mm T&G for that.

it is also worth insulating the roof. I used exactly the same
technique for that, making sure that there is ventilation on the cold
side.

Yep. Ventilation from eaves, and a small gap over the top of the ridge
board.



Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?

Not really. I used 16 gauge. 18 gauge is normally used to hold
things together for gluing, not for fixing. You need a nailer that
takes 16ga finish nails.


Yeah, I thought it a little mean for the job too. But 16ga nailers are
way more expensive (£175 vs £45). I'll have to see what's in the piggy
bank.

Thanks Andy.

Now back to the CAD drawing. Doing a detailed frame design now. Next
challenge is to draw the valley rafters.

http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shedv305.jpg

is this afternoons efforts.
--
Steve

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:58:31 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:



The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

With this, I wouldn't go for more than 450mm centres.

You will need a matrix of brick piers.

That is the plan.

OK. For this, I wouldn't go for a distance between piers of more
than a metre, otherwise the floor is going to be very bouncy.

That's going to be a lot of piers (around 15-20). If the existing
base is reasonable, I would rethink the timber bearers idea.

Also, it's useful to make a complete frame with the floor joists with
timbers across the ends. Then you can make a skirt of TGV cladding
and take it almost to the concrete.


Alternatively, what I did was to start with a concrete base and then
use pressure treated wooden bearers on it and the joists orthogonally
on top of that. It's worth putting some DPC material like Visqueen
down to isolate the timbers from the concrete. You can also use
packing pieces on top of the bearers in order to level the final
floor.



Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,

I'd up that to 50x75mm for good strength.

50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply,

I would go for 12mm or even 18mm there because you can fix things to
it. 18mm ply is used in large quantities (or OSB as an alternative)
so it is not that expensive. You will get a much sturdier result.


outside with VT&G
weatherboard.

That's fine.

I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea?

Yes. What I did was to tack nail small spacers to the sides of the
vertical studs such that the Celotex front face was level with the
front of the studs. Then I tape sealed the Celotex to the studs with
metallised tape and ply clad on top of that. This created an air
gap behind and ventilation was arranged to the air gap.

Ah, good idea.

It would also be worth insulating the floor and ceiling.

They will be.

You might want to think about two glass panels for the windows and
doors or even find an inexpensive source of double glazing inserts.

This will make a big difference. With single sheet glass you are
going to lose a lot of heat. Another option might be secondary
double glazing inside.



For the floor, build the floor frame and then tack nail spacers in
the same way as I described for the walls. Drop in the Celotex and
put flooring on top of that. I used 18mm T&G for that.

it is also worth insulating the roof. I used exactly the same
technique for that, making sure that there is ventilation on the cold
side.

Yep. Ventilation from eaves, and a small gap over the top of the ridge
board.

I made a ridge cap out of Western Red Cedar and spaced it off from
the roof. There were ventilation strips set into the top of the
ridge underneath the cap.

This means that air is drawn in under the eaves into the space above
the insulation and out at the ridge.





Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?

Not really. I used 16 gauge. 18 gauge is normally used to hold
things together for gluing, not for fixing. You need a nailer that
takes 16ga finish nails.


Yeah, I thought it a little mean for the job too. But 16ga nailers are
way more expensive (£175 vs £45). I'll have to see what's in the piggy
bank.

18 ga really is not going to do a good job of holding the boards.

The time saving of a nailer on a job like this is enormous so it is
worth the investment.

Rutlands (www.rutlands.co.uk) have a 16ga nailer for £150.

Top Gun Air Nailers (www.topgun.co.uk) have a Porter Cable for £150
plus VAT (£176).
I have several Porter Cable nailers of different sizes including this
one. Porter Cable and Senco are the two leading makes and this is a
good deal.

I have also found Top Gun to be really good and helpful on obtaining
nails at pretty good prices.

For example, I used cedar shakes for the roof of the cabin that I
built last year.

http://www.johnbrash.co.uk/shakes.shtml

These cannot be fixed with galvanised nails because the tannin in the
cedar corrodes them, so stainless steel was needed. Not easy to get
but Top Gun managed to source and supply some.


Thanks Andy.

Now back to the CAD drawing. Doing a detailed frame design now. Next
challenge is to draw the valley rafters.

http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shedv305.jpg

is this afternoons efforts.


If you need some help in the detail of the studs and rafters, there is
a good plan for the construction of a shed at

http://www.plansnow.com/shed.html which can be downloaded for $9.50.

This uses more or less exactly the construction that you have
described and goes into how to correctly joint and notch the framing.





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Steven Briggs wrote:

I'll be building from scratch, as I want a challenge and to achieve
something better, more substantial and different from the usual stuff.

That sounds familiar - played the same game myself a couple of years ago...

It'll be about 18' x 8', part potting shed, part summer house, with
covered veranda deck area. There's a CAD render of the design at
http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shed14.jpg

Oh very posh ;-) Mine was a bit simpler:-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/plans.htm

I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the group on
construction methods and materials.

Fire away...

The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

I did similar - 50x100 floor beams at about 500mm centres on a matrix of
half bricks set level on the concrete base. I used 19mm ply for the
floor which worked very well.

Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,

50x75 for the framing will give a really solid frame and a bit more
space to play with for insulating and adding electrics etc if required.

50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply, outside with VT&G

50x100 ridge beam, 19mm shiplap cladding, 12mm WBP ply on the inside -
as Andy suggests it is nice and easy to fix things to after.

weatherboard. I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea? Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere? If so,
what to use?

Not suggesting this is the best way - but I went for 50mm jabfloor
(cheaper than celotex - but not quite as good - so your 30mm will
probably be as good or better). I fitted it flush with the outside of
the framing so that it formed a vapour barrier next to the shiplap -
that then left 25mm of space inside the warm/dry area for all the
electrics I wanted installed in/under the interior ply.

Timber treatment is another issue. While the floor joists will be
tanalised timber, I don't think my local timber yard has on-site
treatment plant, so everything else (weatherboarding, frame, floor etc)
will be untreated red or white wood. I could then paint or spray a
suitable preservative on, but would it really be worth shopping round
and getting the whole lot prevac treated (which adds about 20% to the
cost)?

Bog standard sawn kiln dried timber is nicer to work with and cheaper -
just give it a few good coats of cuprinol first.

(as an aside, using a low pressure "pump up" sprayer is a quick way of
doing the job without loosing as much cuprinol as you will with the
finer atomisation you get with a spray gun on the compressor - really it
needs soaking more than it needs a fine finish. I originally did my one
with a brush which took ages - got a pump up sprayer from Wicks the
other day for about 13 quid, that let me re-spray the whole thing in
about an hour)

Any other construction or material suggestions welcome.

In no particular order:

Good three layers of felt on top of at least 12mm WBP ply.

Leave a little air gap underneath the whole shed so that it stays
ventilated.

Give the floor beams and the underside of the floor a good soaking in
wood preserver since you will not be seeing them again for a long time.

Get a decent respirator if spraying cuprinol (the 15 quid 3M jobbies
from Screwfix work well and will also block the smell of the stuff
completely)

Stick some diagonal cross braces in the wall stud work as it will make
the whole thing much more rigid and will prevent any of the framing
leaning or skewing. I ended up using only half the amount that you see
on the drawings - as that seemed to be enough - but doing some is well
worth it. While on the topic, stick a couple of cross braces between
some of the rafters - this will convert the load of the roof (and anyone
on it!) into a downward thrust rather than a "splaying" thrust that
would otherwise tend to push the walls out. Note also three layers of
roofing felt is heavy!

Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?

My tools / materials shopping list was:-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/tips.htm

18g are a bit on the light side - having said that - they are what I
used. I used 30mm brads which are cheap enough you can afford to use
loads. Hence I stuck between three and five into the lower quarter of
each plank every time it crossed a joist. It has been up a couple of
years now and seems to be holding tight - although it is in a reasonably
sheltered location.

Anyway if you want the whole saga you can read it he-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John Rumm
writes
Steven Briggs wrote:
Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,

50x75 for the framing will give a really solid frame and a bit more
space to play with for insulating and adding electrics etc if required.


I've just been down the timber yard, sawn 25x75 is a bit scaggy. 2nd
choice was CLS, but they only have 2.4m in stock. So 50x75 regularised
carcassing it is. It'll work out the same cost as CLS when wastage is
taken in to account.

50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply, outside with VT&G

50x100 ridge beam, 19mm shiplap cladding, 12mm WBP ply on the inside -
as Andy suggests it is nice and easy to fix things to after.

I think if it were my shed, I'd use 12mm, but I don't think there'll be
much, if anything, hung of the walls in this case. 6mm is much easier to
handle single-handed too.

weatherboard. I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is
this a good idea? Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere?
If so, what to use?

Not suggesting this is the best way - but I went for 50mm jabfloor
(cheaper than celotex - but not quite as good - so your 30mm will
probably be as good or better). I fitted it flush with the outside of
the framing so that it formed a vapour barrier next to the shiplap -
that then left 25mm of space inside the warm/dry area for all the
electrics I wanted installed in/under the interior ply.


I thought Jabfloor was polystrene, i.e. not to be in contact with PVC
wiring?


Stick some diagonal cross braces in the wall stud work as it will make
the whole thing much more rigid and will prevent any of the framing
leaning or skewing. I ended up using only half the amount that you see
on the drawings - as that seemed to be enough - but doing some is well
worth it. While on the topic, stick a couple of cross braces between
some of the rafters - this will convert the load of the roof (and
anyone on it!) into a downward thrust rather than a "splaying" thrust
that would otherwise tend to push the walls out. Note also three layers
of roofing felt is heavy!

Good tip, I hadn't thought of diagonals, but it will make a huge
difference. There's already a divider wall that'll brace the side walls,
and I was thinking of another one or two cross braces as well.


Anyway if you want the whole saga you can read it he-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/



Thanks John.

--
Steve

Take a look here before you start to make sure you don't run into future
problems.

http://www.onlineplanningoffices.co.uk/frames.htm

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:07:25 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Anyway if you want the whole saga you can read it he-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/

Excellent! I am reading the whole thing. I especially like the bit
"...we can see that the drains must have been leaking for a while....
not to mention a crack in the soil pipe....", as that is pretty much
what happened to me when I lifted *my* chunk of concrete aka patio! I
replaced the elbow (clayware) and had to pop down to Tesco's for
Number Twos for a couple of days while the cement set. (No way would I
use the public bogs in the village!)

MM

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:44:42 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

Take a look here before you start to make sure you don't run into future
problems.

http://www.onlineplanningoffices.co.uk/frames.htm




Which is extremely unlikely.

Regarding sheds the issues a

- Size

- Proportion of garden covered by all outbuildings and additional
developments.

- Height

- Distance from house. material used may be relevant here.

- Distance from road


Unless an absolute monstrosity is constructed, a typical shed or
summerhouse will not fall foul of any of these.

It also has to be said that there are large numbers of instances where
a shed may fail on one or other of these technicalities and the
planning authority won't bother.

For example, near me there is an instance where the bottoms of the
gardens of some houses back onto a road but with normal 2m fencing.
All of them have at least one shed or greenhouse at the bottom of the
garden. Technically, these are too close to the road, but it's a
non-issue to the planners.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:23:59 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

In message , John Rumm
writes
Steven Briggs wrote:
Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,

50x75 for the framing will give a really solid frame and a bit more
space to play with for insulating and adding electrics etc if required.


I've just been down the timber yard, sawn 25x75 is a bit scaggy. 2nd
choice was CLS, but they only have 2.4m in stock. So 50x75 regularised
carcassing it is. It'll work out the same cost as CLS when wastage is
taken in to account.

I was able to get 5.4m delivered by Jewsons if it helps. Pretty
cheap as I remember. One point is that it is worth going to a place
like this with your entire shopping list. They will give you a
project price with quite heavy discounting when you include the
Celotex and boarding as well.



50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply, outside with VT&G

50x100 ridge beam, 19mm shiplap cladding, 12mm WBP ply on the inside -
as Andy suggests it is nice and easy to fix things to after.

I think if it were my shed, I'd use 12mm, but I don't think there'll be
much, if anything, hung of the walls in this case. 6mm is much easier to
handle single-handed too.

Don't forget that the ply will form part of the strength unless you
are going to diagonally or cross brace the framing. I think that
it's better to screw the ply to the frame if you are going to use 6mm.






weatherboard. I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is
this a good idea? Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere?
If so, what to use?

Not suggesting this is the best way - but I went for 50mm jabfloor
(cheaper than celotex - but not quite as good - so your 30mm will
probably be as good or better). I fitted it flush with the outside of
the framing so that it formed a vapour barrier next to the shiplap -
that then left 25mm of space inside the warm/dry area for all the
electrics I wanted installed in/under the interior ply.


I thought Jabfloor was polystrene, i.e. not to be in contact with PVC
wiring?

It is.

For wiring, in any case, I used PVC conduit with singles run in it.
You can then run additional wiring if you need it later and it's also
pretty cheap.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:09:36 +0100, David Hemmings
wrote:



What about distance from adjoing properties boundaries, if it is wood
construction over a certain size the minimum distance should be at
least x m ? Unless of course you have it treated with a flame
retardant.


Basically the rules are this:

Planning
~~~~~~

Greenhouses & Sheds - (and garages more than 5 metres from the house)
are permitted if they cover less than 50% and are less than 3m high or
4m, with a ridge roof.



Building Control
~~~~~~~~~~~

In order to be exempt the detached building must satisfy the following
criteria

No sleeping accommodation
Internal floor area must not exceed 30m2
More than 1m from any boundary or substantially non-combustible
Can be any distance from boundary if not exceeding 15m2 floor area







..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Mike Mitchell wrote:

what happened to me when I lifted *my* chunk of concrete aka patio! I
replaced the elbow (clayware) and had to pop down to Tesco's for
Number Twos for a couple of days while the cement set. (No way would I
use the public bogs in the village!)

I had two solutions to that problem - first: use the plastic collars
with rubber O rings for joining the pipe - that way as soon as it is
assembled it is water tight. Second: get the next door neighbours son to
climb down in the hole and fit the pipe while I promise to not flush the
loo! ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Steven Briggs wrote:

I've just been down the timber yard, sawn 25x75 is a bit scaggy. 2nd
choice was CLS, but they only have 2.4m in stock. So 50x75 regularised
carcassing it is. It'll work out the same cost as CLS when wastage is
taken in to account.

Don't know if your preference for assembly is screwing or nailing, but I
found that two 4" twinthread quickscreews (Screwfix) per joint made for
very strong framing even when screwed into the end grain of the wood.

I thought Jabfloor was polystrene, i.e. not to be in contact with PVC
wiring?

It is - hence why I put all the wires in oval conduit.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Peter Crosland
writes
Take a look here before you start to make sure you don't run into future
problems.

http://www.onlineplanningoffices.co.uk/frames.htm


I'm OK for this shed.
Its in the back garden, well away from the road. The grey block its sat
upon in the .jpg I linked to is a concrete base of a soon to be
ex-garage.
Even measured from the natural grade, I will just be under the 4m height
limit. Actual height will be about 3.05m from the base level. I don't
know which level the planners measure from, but I'm OK.


--
Steve

Hi,

Nice plans! Might be worth considering 4" rockwool beween 4" joists,
would be cheaper, better and easier to install than 30mm Celotex I'd
expect, though a vapour membrane could be necessary.

If you set the bricks supporting the floor timbers in cement this will
allow you to even out some variation in the concrete base.

As far as timber goes, it tends to rot at the ends where exposed to
water so dipping these pieces in wood preserver then coating the ends
would be a great help.

Getting everything pressure treated seems like a bit overkill and CCA
treated wood is nasty stuff to work with.

cheers,
Pete

wrote:

Hello all.

This years project looks set to be a large shed at mums place.

I'll be building from scratch, as I want a challenge and to achieve
something better, more substantial and different from the usual stuff.

It'll be about 18' x 8', part potting shed, part summer house, with
covered veranda deck area. There's a CAD render of the design at
http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shed14.jpg

I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the group on
construction methods and materials.


The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,
50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply, outside with VT&G
weatherboard. I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea? Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere? If so,
what to use?

Timber treatment is another issue. While the floor joists will be
tanalised timber, I don't think my local timber yard has on-site
treatment plant, so everything else (weatherboarding, frame, floor etc)
will be untreated red or white wood. I could then paint or spray a
suitable preservative on, but would it really be worth shopping round
and getting the whole lot prevac treated (which adds about 20% to the
cost)?

Any other construction or material suggestions welcome.

Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?


Cheers all,

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:31:24 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

Hi,

Nice plans! Might be worth considering 4" rockwool beween 4" joists,
would be cheaper, better and easier to install than 30mm Celotex I'd
expect, though a vapour membrane could be necessary.

It isn't - I've tried it. The problem is that the rockwool tends to
hold on to any water that gets in for whatever reason (e.g. driving
rain against the side for a long time, among others). It is
difficult to support it away from the outer cladding to permit
ventilation. A vapour barrier is definitely needed and will need
to be fitted additionally.

For insulating below a floor it is a PITA because there is no good way
to support it effectively.

I made shed in this way some years ago and ended up ripping out all
the rockwool and replacing it with Celotex.

I've now done three buildings with it, including the garage workshop
and it is extremely easy to use because it stays in place and is
light. A given thickness of polyisocyanurate foam has
approximately 4x the insulating property of glass fibre, and the foil
on both sides provides the vapour barrier.
It is also a lot more pleasant to work with because there are no
fibres to stick in the skin.

THe only slight disadvantage is the slightly higher cost, but in the
context of a project like this and the time taken, it's a no-brainer.



If you set the bricks supporting the floor timbers in cement this will
allow you to even out some variation in the concrete base.

As far as timber goes, it tends to rot at the ends where exposed to
water so dipping these pieces in wood preserver then coating the ends
would be a great help.

Getting everything pressure treated seems like a bit overkill and CCA
treated wood is nasty stuff to work with.

It should certainly be treated with some form of spirit based
preservative if it is to last a reasonable time.






cheers,
Pete

wrote:

Hello all.

This years project looks set to be a large shed at mums place.

I'll be building from scratch, as I want a challenge and to achieve
something better, more substantial and different from the usual stuff.

It'll be about 18' x 8', part potting shed, part summer house, with
covered veranda deck area. There's a CAD render of the design at
http://www.sbriggs.plus.com/shed14.jpg

I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the group on
construction methods and materials.


The latest thinking on the base is to mount it on single brick pads (on
a large, existing concrete platform), then a 50x100 joist frame, T&G
floor, then the shed structure.

Wall & roof framing I'm thinking 25x75 sawn timber studs & rafters,
50x75 sill & head. Inside skinned with 6mm WBP ply, outside with VT&G
weatherboard. I'll put about 30mm of Celotex / Kingspan on the inside
face of the wall cavity. I'm debating the need to vent the remaining
cavity to the outside, I can easily have a 10mm hidden gap around the
framing at ground & eaves level, and over the roof ridge board. Is this
a good idea? Should I put a vapour barrier in there somewhere? If so,
what to use?

Timber treatment is another issue. While the floor joists will be
tanalised timber, I don't think my local timber yard has on-site
treatment plant, so everything else (weatherboarding, frame, floor etc)
will be untreated red or white wood. I could then paint or spray a
suitable preservative on, but would it really be worth shopping round
and getting the whole lot prevac treated (which adds about 20% to the
cost)?

Any other construction or material suggestions welcome.

Finally, this is grand excuse for compressor and nail gun purchase.
Probably the Axminster £100 compressor (2.5HP /25L /7cfm FAD) and 50mm
brad nailer. Are 18ga brads going to adequate for the cladding?


Cheers all,

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:56:26 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:31:24 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

Hi,

Nice plans! Might be worth considering 4" rockwool beween 4" joists,
would be cheaper, better and easier to install than 30mm Celotex I'd
expect, though a vapour membrane could be necessary.

It isn't - I've tried it. The problem is that the rockwool tends to
hold on to any water that gets in for whatever reason (e.g. driving
rain against the side for a long time, among others). It is
difficult to support it away from the outer cladding to permit
ventilation. A vapour barrier is definitely needed and will need
to be fitted additionally.

It's doable. One way would be to staple support netting on the outside
of the studs, then tack a batten on the studs to give the required
spacing. You could also add tyvek/housewrap as well as the netting for
extra protection if required.

Another way would be to cut the netting to the fit the gap between the
studs and staple it away away from the outside to give a gap.

If the shed is in a well sheltered position you might just be able to
put housewrap on the outside and leave out the gap.

You wouldn't have to use a vapour barrier but if you wanted one then
some poly stapled to the inside of the studs would do. It would give
you a better vapour barrier than celotex fitted between the studs.

For insulating below a floor it is a PITA because there is no good way
to support it effectively.

Again, you can get support netting for this. The netting could be
stapled to the bottom of the joists as they are laid down, or stapled
to the side of the joists.

I made shed in this way some years ago and ended up ripping out all
the rockwool and replacing it with Celotex.

I take it the rockwool was directly against the cladding, and leaking
or blown in water was soaking into it.

I've now done three buildings with it, including the garage workshop
and it is extremely easy to use because it stays in place and is
light. A given thickness of polyisocyanurate foam has
approximately 4x the insulating property of glass fibre, and the foil
on both sides provides the vapour barrier.

AFIAK celotex is 60% better for a given thickness, so 100mm rockwool
is about twice as good as 30mm celotex.

It is also a lot more pleasant to work with because there are no
fibres to stick in the skin.

True, although if you space the studs correctly you only need to cut
the rockwool to length.

THe only slight disadvantage is the slightly higher cost, but in the
context of a project like this and the time taken, it's a no-brainer.

True, celotex would only work out £3/m2 dearer.

I think it also depends on how you rate the different types of
insulation, and what sort of deal you can get on what's available.

Getting everything pressure treated seems like a bit overkill and CCA
treated wood is nasty stuff to work with.

It should certainly be treated with some form of spirit based
preservative if it is to last a reasonable time.

True, any wood that might get repeatedly wet should be treated. Having
a look at some old sheds that are starting to rot gives you some idea
of what areas need particular attention.

BTW my neighbour has a _really_ nice shed, I'll try and see if he'll
let me put a picture of it up at sometime to give the OP some ideas.

As shed styles go a lot depends on the surrounding environment, a
Wickes type shed would't look too good next to a 17th century thatched
cottage.

cheers,
Pete.

I would like to suggest a DPC between bricks & wood. My apologies
if you already thought of this.

Thanks for all the comments.

Now, Andy / John, how did you finish off the eaves edge of the roof.
You've got rafters topped by ply, did you just let the felt form a drip
edge? Into a gutter? Did you doing anything to the ends of the rafters,
seems they'd be vulnerable to getting splashed from the gutter.

I think John mentioned in a post (or his excellent) site that a 30deg
roof looked wrong. That's what I was planning, but having looked e.g.
next door's summer house shed (off the peg style one) with a shallower
roof angle, I think you may be right. I'm now working on 22.5deg (next
stop on the mitre saw), lowers the ridge ~200mm and means I get 3
rafters out of a 4.2m length of timber.

The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.


--
Steve

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:29:31 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

Thanks for all the comments.

Now, Andy / John, how did you finish off the eaves edge of the roof.
You've got rafters topped by ply, did you just let the felt form a drip
edge? Into a gutter? Did you doing anything to the ends of the rafters,
seems they'd be vulnerable to getting splashed from the gutter.


On an earlier shed where I really minimised the overhang of the roof,
I ended the rafters inside the wall. I then screwed a length of
timber to the edge of the roof boarding to create a shape over which
to fold the felt. With the felt, I formed a folded drip edge with
the edge of it over the gutter. It doesn't splash up from the
gutter.

On the recent cabin, the rafters go out beyond the wall and form a
feature that can be seen from underneath.

However, the roof covering is done differently to what you probably
have in mind.

The rafters were first covered with ply cut exactly to match the ends
of the rafters. Roofing felt was laid on that and dressed down
vertically. I attached a vertical piece of timber to the ends of the
rafters to form a fascia and trapped the felt behind the fascia also
adding a sealer. This is not the final roof, and this area is not
subject to any significant amount of water.

I then laid pressure treated 38mmx18mm roofing battens up the slope of
the roof on 500mm centres, and then the same orthogonally to them,
horizontally up the roof with 150mm between centres.

The final covering is cedar shakes which are nailed into place using
the recommended procedure.

This is more or less like the procedure at

http://www.cedarbureau.org/techinfo/...-fig%207-8.htm

escept that there is a single layer of felt on the roof boards and the
vertically running battens are smaller - the same as the horizontal
ones. The reason for the method is so that if water does get
past the gaps in the shakes (fairly unlikely), it can run down on the
felt and escape at the bottom.

If you are using felt only, then I would arrange for it to be folded
under to form a drip piece.



I think John mentioned in a post (or his excellent) site that a 30deg
roof looked wrong. That's what I was planning, but having looked e.g.
next door's summer house shed (off the peg style one) with a shallower
roof angle, I think you may be right. I'm now working on 22.5deg (next
stop on the mitre saw), lowers the ridge ~200mm and means I get 3
rafters out of a 4.2m length of timber.

My most recent cabin has a roof slope of around 18 degrees. This
looks fine, especially if you have the roof overhanging some way.

One other advantage is that you can have a larger floor area and wall
height while keeping under the 4m ridge height issue for planning
purposes.

Considering your idea of part potting shed, part summerhouse, part
covered patio, I think that an overhanging roof design would look
pretty good.




The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

M. Damerell wrote:

I would like to suggest a DPC between bricks & wood. My apologies
if you already thought of this.

and if you wrap it round the under side of the joist and then staple it
to the sides of the joist the DPC won't keep slipping out of position.
(you can guess how I worked that one out ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Steven Briggs wrote:

Now, Andy / John, how did you finish off the eaves edge of the roof.
You've got rafters topped by ply, did you just let the felt form a drip
edge? Into a gutter? Did you doing anything to the ends of the rafters,
seems they'd be vulnerable to getting splashed from the gutter.

I did something similar to Andy - but slightly different

The eves were designed with a few inches of overhang, and the ends of
the rafters were sawn so as to leave a vertical edge at the end of the
roof. The ply on the roof was cut so as to be about an inch wider than
the overhang of the rafters. I then fixed a 2"x1" batten to the ends of
the rafters on both sides (a bit like a facia board). I also made up
short noggins and fixed those in place on the gable ends against the
underside of the ply overhang so as to create a "standoff" similar to
that provided by the eves, and then fixed more batten to that.

The effect was that the vertical serface of this facia was flush with
the edge of the roofing ply. The felt then draped over this facia.

I then screwed a second batten to the outside of the first *through* the
3 layers of felt overhanging the edge of the roof:


felt- /
/
##|##
outer ##|## - facia
batten- ##|##
|
|

This created a sandwich effect - with the felt clamped between the two
layers of wood. Finishing off was then just a matter of running a knife
along the underside of the batten to trim off the remaining felt (in
fact it could be torn off pretty neatly). You can see the result most
clearly he-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/images/edges.jpg

The outside batten got a good soaking in cuprinol since it is the only
wood part that will get very wet every time it rains!

I think John mentioned in a post (or his excellent) site that a 30deg
roof looked wrong. That's what I was planning, but having looked e.g.
next door's summer house shed (off the peg style one) with a shallower
roof angle, I think you may be right. I'm now working on 22.5deg (next
stop on the mitre saw), lowers the ridge ~200mm and means I get 3
rafters out of a 4.2m length of timber.

I found the 30 degree roof looked wrong for two reasons - the main one
was that my workshop is right beside the shed in the next door garden.
Having the roof angles match made it look much better. The other reason
was I deliberately built my workshop so as to be quite a bit taller than
most ready made sheds since I wanted to be able to stand close to the
eves when inside (and I am 6'3") and still move bits of timber round, so
the lower angle reduced the overall height (and hence timber use and cost).

(one thing I did note - when the shed is still in its "skeletal" form
without cladding it looked HUGE - dwarfing the surrounding buildings -
but once the cladding and roof was on it looked much more in proportion.
So don't be put off if you think you have over done it half way through!)

The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.

A couple of things jump out at me there... I had 135m of framing (plus a
further 37m of 2x4"), and 281m of cladding. So unless you are planning
lots of studs very close together you are going to need either less
framing, or more cladding (and you always need more cladding than you
think!)

You may want to compare dimensions with:-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/plans.htm

Using T&G for the floor will push the price up as well. 19mm WBP ply
works very well at about 18 quid a sheet (I needed 3 IIRC)

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/tips.htm

I think I paid about 700 all in for the timber - it does pay in the end
to go to a builder merchant with a big list though, since I probably got
a couple of hundred off list price due to the size of the order. The
whole project cost was probably only 1500 - 1600 ish. Note also that
included a well over engineered base, and 200 odd quids work of
electrics that you can probably do without.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John Rumm
writes
I did something similar to Andy - but slightly different

The eves were designed with a few inches of overhang, and the ends of
the rafters were sawn so as to leave a vertical edge at the end of the
roof. The ply on the roof was cut so as to be about an inch wider than
the overhang of the rafters. I then fixed a 2"x1" batten to the ends of
the rafters on both sides (a bit like a facia board). I also made up
short noggins and fixed those in place on the gable ends against the
underside of the ply overhang so as to create a "standoff" similar to
that provided by the eves, and then fixed more batten to that.

The effect was that the vertical serface of this facia was flush with
the edge of the roofing ply. The felt then draped over this facia.

I then screwed a second batten to the outside of the first *through*
the 3 layers of felt overhanging the edge of the roof:


felt- /
/
##|##
outer ##|## - facia
batten- ##|##
|
|

This created a sandwich effect - with the felt clamped between the two
layers of wood. Finishing off was then just a matter of running a knife
along the underside of the batten to trim off the remaining felt (in
fact it could be torn off pretty neatly). You can see the result most
clearly he-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/images/edges.jpg

Looks good, something similar is called for I think.

The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.

A couple of things jump out at me there... I had 135m of framing (plus
a further 37m of 2x4"), and 281m of cladding. So unless you are
planning lots of studs very close together you are going to need either
less framing, or more cladding (and you always need more cladding than
you think!)

Well there's a number of windows, French doors on the summer house,
which reduce the cladding requirement, and extra framing for the
sticky-out roof over the deck area.

You may want to compare dimensions with:-

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/plans.htm

Using T&G for the floor will push the price up as well. 19mm WBP ply
works very well at about 18 quid a sheet (I needed 3 IIRC)

Strangely the T&G works out considerably cheaper at £13.40 (+vat) for a
8'x4' equivalent area.

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/tips.htm

I think I paid about 700 all in for the timber - it does pay in the end
to go to a builder merchant with a big list though, since I probably
got a couple of hundred off list price due to the size of the order.
The whole project cost was probably only 1500 - 1600 ish. Note also
that included a well over engineered base, and 200 odd quids work of
electrics that you can probably do without.

Oh I don't know. I can see LV spots being used inside & outside on the
summerhouse / deck area, the effect looks so good on the CAD renders.

Point of no return tomorrow hopefully, the old garage goes, leaving a
yawning great space to be filled.
--
Steve

In message , Andy Hall
writes


Considering your idea of part potting shed, part summerhouse, part
covered patio, I think that an overhanging roof design would look
pretty good.

Yes I agree, I just need to get the proportions of the various elements
to look "right".

I think this is going to be project for some photos and subsequent
website. So it better look good if its open to scrutiny by the uk.d-i-y
panel ;-)

Thanks all.
--
Steve

Steven Briggs wrote:

Well there's a number of windows, French doors on the summer house,
which reduce the cladding requirement, and extra framing for the
sticky-out roof over the deck area.

Good point.... (I stick to my comment about always needing more cladding
though ;-)

Using T&G for the floor will push the price up as well. 19mm WBP ply
works very well at about 18 quid a sheet (I needed 3 IIRC)

Strangely the T&G works out considerably cheaper at £13.40 (+vat) for a
8'x4' equivalent area.

Is that for proper flooring grade T&G? If so then that is handy to
know... (was thinking about using T&G in place of chipboard in my loft
conversion - but was assuming it was going to cost lots more)

Oh I don't know. I can see LV spots being used inside & outside on the
summerhouse / deck area, the effect looks so good on the CAD renders.

;-)

Point of no return tomorrow hopefully, the old garage goes, leaving a
yawning great space to be filled.

Good luck!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John Rumm
writes
Steven Briggs wrote:
Strangely the T&G works out considerably cheaper at £13.40 (+vat) for
a 8'x4' equivalent area.

Is that for proper flooring grade T&G? If so then that is handy to
know... (was thinking about using T&G in place of chipboard in my loft
conversion - but was assuming it was going to cost lots more)
I thinks so. Its whitewood, 22mm nominal.
Probably better to use 25mm in the house, but its OK for the shed.

--
Steve

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:55:20 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

In message , John Rumm
writes
Steven Briggs wrote:
Strangely the T&G works out considerably cheaper at £13.40 (+vat) for
a 8'x4' equivalent area.

Is that for proper flooring grade T&G? If so then that is handy to
know... (was thinking about using T&G in place of chipboard in my loft
conversion - but was assuming it was going to cost lots more)
I thinks so. Its whitewood, 22mm nominal.
Probably better to use 25mm in the house, but its OK for the shed.


There is certainly a production volume factor in a number of materials
where, if you buy them from a suitable merchant are unexpectedly less
than you would think they might be.

Among them are

-18mm WBP ply and OSB

-Flooring T&G

-CLS timber


I used T&G boarding for sheds and boarding the house and garage. It
might be a bit more expensive than chipboard but is a lot more
pleasant to work in terms of lightness, cutting and manoevrability in
a small space.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

I used T&G boarding for sheds and boarding the house and garage. It
might be a bit more expensive than chipboard but is a lot more
pleasant to work in terms of lightness, cutting and manoevrability in
a small space.

I shall see what some of the local timber merchants can offer then - I
think I would much rather have T&B than resin bonded wetabix.

Is it just my imagination, or do floors made with sheet chipboard seem
to creak more than those with floorboards?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:19:29 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

I used T&G boarding for sheds and boarding the house and garage. It
might be a bit more expensive than chipboard but is a lot more
pleasant to work in terms of lightness, cutting and manoevrability in
a small space.

I shall see what some of the local timber merchants can offer then - I
think I would much rather have T&B than resin bonded wetabix.

I found Jewsons pretty good if you go to them with a project list when
they are not too busy.


Is it just my imagination, or do floors made with sheet chipboard seem
to creak more than those with floorboards?

I think so. I suspect it has to do with being nailed through the
sheet....


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:29:31 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.

Hi,

Might be worth a visit to a shed centre to get some ideas and see what
size timber is used in normal sheds. 3x1.25 might be alright for the
uprights, with 3x2 in the corners.

cheers,
Pete.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:29:31 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.

Hi,

Might be worth a visit to a shed centre to get some ideas and see what
size timber is used in normal sheds. 3x1.25 might be alright for the
uprights, with 3x2 in the corners.

cheers,
Pete.

Generally it's like matchwood, unfortunately, which is one of the
reasons to make your own. I did take a look at some even quite
decent products and they are still not that great unfortunately.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

Generally it's like matchwood, unfortunately, which is one of the
reasons to make your own. I did take a look at some even quite
decent products and they are still not that great unfortunately.

There were a number I looked at that were no better than four fence
pannels nailed together at the corners. Even the "top end" ready built
ones often went for 1 1/2" framing, with studs at 1 or even 1.5m
centres. No internal cladding and most shiplap on offer was only 12mm or
so. As for the roofs - one layer of thin felt (with mineral finish)
nailed round the edges.

Building your own won't be cheaper - but the end result will be so much
better.

--
Cheers,

John.

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In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:29:31 +0100, Steven Briggs
wrote:

The current material list includes 210m of 3x2, 285m of cladding and
285m of T&G floor / roof. Eeek. Over £1500 at list prices for all the
materials so far, so next its shopping round for a job lot price.

Hi,

Might be worth a visit to a shed centre to get some ideas and see what
size timber is used in normal sheds. 3x1.25 might be alright for the
uprights, with 3x2 in the corners.

cheers,
Pete.

Generally it's like matchwood, unfortunately, which is one of the
reasons to make your own. I did take a look at some even quite
decent products and they are still not that great unfortunately.




.andy


Indeed. There's a local saw mill that makes sheds on site. Frames from
28x44 actual (i.e. the old 1.5x2"). Even when there some nice features
(one had a mini bay window) the "joinery" is a bit rough and ready.
The only exception to that size frame I noted is the Site Huts in the
Screwfix Big Stuff catalogue, using a 70x45 frame. The 8'x18' is £1089,
probably more than my basic 8'x18' shell will work out.

The other local woodyard/BM (where I shall most likely buy the timber
from), stocks sheds (more like cabins) made out of interlocking (at the
corners) timer sections. Much better, but getting even more expensive.

http://www.cwberry.com is a good site, has a comprehensive on-line
price list, which is very competitive. Its a pity they're over the hills
in darkest Lancashire.


--
Steve

Another thing, its also rare for off-the-peg sheds to me more than ~1.8m
to the eaves, with the door always on the gable ends because of this.
--
Steve

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:21:23 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


Might be worth a visit to a shed centre to get some ideas and see what
size timber is used in normal sheds. 3x1.25 might be alright for the
uprights, with 3x2 in the corners.

cheers,
Pete.

Generally it's like matchwood, unfortunately, which is one of the
reasons to make your own. I did take a look at some even quite
decent products and they are still not that great unfortunately.

True, there's no point building it the same as a budget shed but you
might pick up some ideas worth using. There are a few free shed plans
on the web too that are worth checking out.

cheers,
Pete.