What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?

mrcheerful

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:41:28 GMT, in uk.d-i-y "MrCheerful"
strung together this:

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?

I would have thought that the bricks would be too thick to radiate any
useful sort of heat through and the thermal properties of the
sand\soil underneath would be such that all the heat would be used to
warm this up. Why would you want underfloor heating on a patio?
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

Why do you want to heat your patio? I can only think of snow clearing...


The running costs are not an issue as such

Lucky you!

but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?

"Scott Mills" wrote in message
news:HiCdc.1316$io3.292@newsfe1-win...

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

Why do you want to heat your patio? I can only think of snow clearing...


The running costs are not an issue as such

Lucky you!

but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?


Reasoning is that if you are outside with warm feet you can stand the
temperature of the rest of you better, also it would dry off quickly after
rain, which would be a big advantage for us as we have dogs that run in and
out with wet paws.

During the summer the sun warms the bricks and after sundown they let the
heat go again and feel warm and pleasant for a while, if that was prolonged
by electric heating that would be quite an advantage, I think.

mrcheerful

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite
reason
not to use this system?

Now I've heard everything!

Mary

mrcheerful

In message , MrCheerful
writes
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?

Global Warming?

It's not very "green" to be ****ing energy away like you propose.
--
Steve

In message , Steven Briggs
writes
In message , MrCheerful
writes
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?

Global Warming?

It's not very "green" to be ****ing energy away like you propose.

Seconded, if it's too cold to be outside, then go indoors

--
geoff

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite
reason
not to use this system?

Water ingress.

MrCheerful wrote:

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?



I wouldn't use leccy on an outdoor system unless it was LV.

Bound to get damp.


mrcheerful

MrCheerful wrote:

"Scott Mills" wrote in message
news:HiCdc.1316$io3.292@newsfe1-win...

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

Why do you want to heat your patio? I can only think of snow clearing...


The running costs are not an issue as such

Lucky you!


but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?



Reasoning is that if you are outside with warm feet you can stand the
temperature of the rest of you better, also it would dry off quickly after
rain, which would be a big advantage for us as we have dogs that run in and
out with wet paws.

During the summer the sun warms the bricks and after sundown they let the
heat go again and feel warm and pleasant for a while, if that was prolonged
by electric heating that would be quite an advantage, I think.



Nothing wrong with it, but do lay insulation underneath. I'd be tempted
to go hot water tho. Cheaper and more robust and safer out doors.


mrcheerful

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
MrCheerful wrote:

"Scott Mills" wrote in message
news:HiCdc.1316$io3.292@newsfe1-win...

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

Why do you want to heat your patio? I can only think of snow
clearing...


The running costs are not an issue as such

Lucky you!


but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?



Reasoning is that if you are outside with warm feet you can stand the
temperature of the rest of you better, also it would dry off quickly
after
rain, which would be a big advantage for us as we have dogs that run in
and
out with wet paws.

During the summer the sun warms the bricks and after sundown they let
the
heat go again and feel warm and pleasant for a while, if that was
prolonged
by electric heating that would be quite an advantage, I think.



Nothing wrong with it, but do lay insulation underneath. I'd be tempted
to go hot water tho. Cheaper and more robust and safer out doors.


Now, that idea I like. the initial costs are far lower too, I would have to
put anti freeze in, but that would be ok I would guess, no danger of
overheating elements, even if it fails there is just a leak, screwfix sell
the pipe too !

thanks, I was hung up on electric after seeing some installed indoors.

MrCheerful

MrCheerful wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

MrCheerful wrote:


"Scott Mills" wrote in message
news:HiCdc.1316$io3.292@newsfe1-win...


"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...


What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?


Why do you want to heat your patio? I can only think of snow

clearing...


The running costs are not an issue as such


Lucky you!



but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?



Reasoning is that if you are outside with warm feet you can stand the
temperature of the rest of you better, also it would dry off quickly

after

rain, which would be a big advantage for us as we have dogs that run in

and

out with wet paws.

During the summer the sun warms the bricks and after sundown they let

the

heat go again and feel warm and pleasant for a while, if that was

prolonged

by electric heating that would be quite an advantage, I think.



Nothing wrong with it, but do lay insulation underneath. I'd be tempted
to go hot water tho. Cheaper and more robust and safer out doors.



Now, that idea I like. the initial costs are far lower too, I would have to
put anti freeze in, but that would be ok I would guess, no danger of
overheating elements, even if it fails there is just a leak, screwfix sell
the pipe too !

thanks, I was hung up on electric after seeing some installed indoors.



The pipe can take exteme pressure. Mine was tested to 10 bar and teh
scred laid at 4 bar. I doubt if freezng would be a problem - if encased
in concrete.

But be aware it takes several hours to get warm, irrespective of what you use.

The thermal mass of a slab of concrete is considerable.


Which is why most outdoor gheating is of the hot air blow variety.

By the time you notice its a bit chilly, you are already too late by a
few hours to switch it on...

In summer, the slab will pick up heat anyway from the sun, and stay warm
into the night. Especially if insulated.


MrCheerful

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:08:35 GMT, "MrCheerful"
wrote:

Reasoning is that if you are outside with warm feet you can stand the
temperature of the rest of you better, also it would dry off quickly after
rain, which would be a big advantage for us as we have dogs that run in and
out with wet paws.

During the summer the sun warms the bricks and after sundown they let the
heat go again and feel warm and pleasant for a while, if that was prolonged
by electric heating that would be quite an advantage, I think.

Might be worth investigating the heating systems used under
Premiership football pitches.

sPoNiX

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:08:35 GMT, "MrCheerful"
wrote:

Reasoning is that if you are outside with warm feet you can stand the
temperature of the rest of you better, also it would dry off quickly
after
rain, which would be a big advantage for us as we have dogs that run in
and
out with wet paws.

During the summer the sun warms the bricks and after sundown they let the
heat go again and feel warm and pleasant for a while, if that was
prolonged
by electric heating that would be quite an advantage, I think.

Might be worth investigating the heating systems used under
Premiership football pitches.

They use hot water/glycol.

"MrCheerful" wrote in message ...
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

irresponsible

The running costs are not an issue as such, but is there any definite reason
not to use this system?

yes.

Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
m...
"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
m...
"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed
brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!


Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?
Is it the green issue? Global warming?
Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is 2004
, not the middle ages.
Perhaps we should all go back to living in primitive conditions without any
mod cons? Certainly no computers, they are very environmentally unfriendly.
I like my comfort and convenience, and I use heating and cooling as
appropriate for my comfort.
I have decided to go for the heated liquid in tube option with a boiler. If
I find that it gives no noticeable benefit then I will not use it, all I
will have really wasted is the cost of the tube and a little extra time (the
other bits are recoverable/ free anyway)

MrCheerful

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
m...
"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating
like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed
brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!

Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?
Is it the green issue? Global warming?
Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is
2004
, not the middle ages.

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It heats
people directly. If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass durning the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when the sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all day.

snip

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?

What a very silly comment.

Is it the green issue? Global warming?

Yes.

Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is
2004
, not the middle ages.

Yes, and we have far more efficient clothing which you could wear if you
need to be on your patio in cold weather.

Does the era make a difference to irresponsibility?

People in the past have been irresponsible in their selfish attitude to the
planet - and to their heirs - for the sake of their 'comfort. In 2004 we
have learned a lot about the damage we do and should know better. In 2004 we
have no excuse.

Mary

"IMM" wrote in message
...


Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?
Is it the green issue? Global warming?
Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is
2004
, not the middle ages.

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It heats
people directly.

I still have a problem with patio heaters... Seems to me people are not
happy with global warming as it is, and want to heat the place directly!
Why not just wear a jumper? Or if it is to cold to be outside, why not be
controversial and go inside?!?

Although I must say, I do like air conditioning, which is very bad
indeed....




If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass durning
the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when the
sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all day.

snip

Mary Fisher wrote:


People in the past have been irresponsible in their selfish attitude to the
planet - and to their heirs - for the sake of their 'comfort. In 2004 we
have learned a lot about the damage we do and should know better. In 2004 we
have no excuse.


"who care's about the wahles, who cares about the trees, ain't runnin
outta nuthin in My Deep Freeze!"


Mary

"MrCheerful" wrote in message ...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"N. Thornton" wrote in message
m...


What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!


Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?

no, dont think so.

Is it the green issue? Global warming?

thats one of the issues yes.

Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort?

because it is a complete waste of your own resources when Im sure you
could do something genuinely useful with them, and because it is
contributing pointlessly to the problems the world is facing today,
problems most of us are making real effort to improve.

This is 2004, not the middle ages.

indeed. That doesnt support your case much.

Perhaps we should all go back to living in primitive conditions without any
mod cons?

why?

Certainly no computers, they are very environmentally unfriendly.

theyre one of the most enviro friendly inventions we have yet seen.
Their use dramatically improves efficiency of labour, materials and
energy use.


I like my comfort and convenience, and I use heating and cooling as
appropriate for my comfort.

patio heating wont improve your comfort any. Good luck.


Regards, NT

In message , IMM
writes

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
m...
"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating
like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed
brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!

Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?
Is it the green issue? Global warming?
Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is
2004
, not the middle ages.

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It heats
people directly. If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass durning the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when the sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all day.

Bloody hell ...

In total agreement with IMM here

--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
m...
"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating
like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed
brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!

Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?
Is it the green issue? Global warming?
Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is
2004
, not the middle ages.

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It heats
people directly. If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would
insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass durning
the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when the
sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all day.

Bloody hell ...

In total agreement with IMM here

Gosh! I never thought it would happen Maxie. You are learning at last.
Keep up the good work.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:


People in the past have been irresponsible in their selfish attitude to
the
planet - and to their heirs - for the sake of their 'comfort. In 2004 we
have learned a lot about the damage we do and should know better. In
2004 we
have no excuse.


"who care's about the wahles, who cares about the trees, ain't runnin
outta nuthin in My Deep Freeze!"

Who are about Suffolk. It should be allowed to sink.

In message , IMM
writes

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It heats
people directly. If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would
insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass durning
the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when the
sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all day.

Bloody hell ...

In total agreement with IMM here

Gosh! I never thought it would happen Maxie. You are learning at last.
Keep up the good work.

No, you just got it right for once
--
geoff

"IMM" wrote in message
...
What is the panel's opinion on using electric under floor heating
like
screwfix sell for conservatories under my shortly to be installed
brick
patio?

irresponsible

seconded!

Have you smashed any looms recently, or burned any witches?
Is it the green issue? Global warming?
Why is it irresponsible to have an idea to improve my comfort? This is
2004, not the middle ages.

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now.

Agree with you totally. And good luck IMM on your forays into the period
property forum - hope you can bring some sense where others including me
have failed. Some of the people there really are in the Middle Ages and see
nothing wrong with wasting energy as long as they waste it authentically.

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/cgi-...forum.pl?#2173

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying
something like:

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It heats
people directly. If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass durning the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when the sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all day.

Bloody hell ...

In total agreement with IMM here

The world is turned upside down. I'd also regard it as totally wasteful
to heat my patio unless...

I was using waste veg oil or wood.
--

Dave

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news

The world is turned upside down. I'd also regard it as totally wasteful
to heat my patio unless...

I was using waste veg oil or wood.

And this prevents global warming how precisely ?

G&M wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
The world is turned upside down. I'd also regard it as totally wasteful
to heat my patio unless...

I was using waste veg oil or wood.


And this prevents global warming how precisely ?




Becuse the waste veg oil and wood come from a source that fixes
atmospheric carbon dioxide perhaps?


Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.

Its fine tho for teh council and government to waste our money
floodlighting the civic hall etc etc.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

That is right, 2004. We know more about energy and wastage now. If
you
want external heating get a purpose made LPG umbrella heater. It
heats
people directly. If I wanted a little more heat on a patio I would
insulate
under and have no heating. The heat stored in the thermal mass
durning
the
day will be given back off. The patio would have to be covered when
the
sun
goes in to retain heat given off and south facing to absorb sun all
day.

Bloody hell ...

In total agreement with IMM here

Gosh! I never thought it would happen Maxie. You are learning at last.
Keep up the good work.

No, you just got it right for once

You are a one, Maxie.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
G&M wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
The world is turned upside down. I'd also regard it as totally wasteful
to heat my patio unless...

I was using waste veg oil or wood.


And this prevents global warming how precisely ?

Becuse the waste veg oil and wood come from a source that fixes
atmospheric carbon dioxide perhaps?

Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.

Its fine tho for teh council and government to waste our money
floodlighting the civic hall etc etc.

Or shoring up counties like Suffolk, when the sea should have reclaimed them
eons ago.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:15:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:




Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.

I agree. If the OP wants to do that, while I don't think it makes
much sense, at the end of the day it is his choice.

I don't think that it's appropriate to lambast him. Something about
seeing motes in other people's eyes springs to mind.



Its fine tho for teh council and government to waste our money
floodlighting the civic hall etc etc.





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
G&M wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
The world is turned upside down. I'd also regard it as totally wasteful
to heat my patio unless...

I was using waste veg oil or wood.


And this prevents global warming how precisely ?




Becuse the waste veg oil and wood come from a source that fixes
atmospheric carbon dioxide perhaps?


Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.


It's the British talent for envy, cant and hypocrisy coming to the fore
again!

Regards
Capitol

"Capitol" wrote in message
...

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
G&M wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
The world is turned upside down. I'd also regard it as totally wasteful
to heat my patio unless...

I was using waste veg oil or wood.

And this prevents global warming how precisely ?

Becuse the waste veg oil and wood come from a source that fixes
atmospheric carbon dioxide perhaps?

Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.

It's the British talent for envy, cant and hypocrisy coming to the fore
again!

Where? Telling someone he is doing something very stupid is not envy. I
cant see any envy.

In message , IMM
writes

Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.

It's the British talent for envy, cant and hypocrisy coming to the fore
again!

Where? Telling someone he is doing something very stupid is not envy. I
cant see any envy.


But I see a lack of sense of responsibility on the part of those that
think "If I can afford to waste energy, it's OK"

We're heading towards a potential energy crisis and runaway global
warming and the ostriches bury their head in the sand and think it's not
their problem
--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

Blimye. What a thread. Bloody thought police jumping down the mans
throat because he wants to waste his money.

It's the British talent for envy, cant and hypocrisy coming to the fore
again!

Where? Telling someone he is doing something very stupid is not envy. I
cant see any envy.


But I see a lack of sense of responsibility on the part of those that
think "If I can afford to waste energy, it's OK"

We're heading towards a potential energy crisis and runaway global
warming and the ostriches bury their head in the sand and think it's not
their problem

Many people with money like to show it off. They have a house far too large
for their needs, expensive impractical cars and let people know they can
waste energy. Luckily people now do not sneer the first two, but rightly
sneer the latter. They tend to be not very bright, just happened to have
made a lot of money somehow, and still have this tiny minded attitude of: if
I have the money I can waste it if I like. They can waste it all they like
as far as most are concerned, and spending it is a good thing for the
economy, except where it impacts on the rest of society.

"Rod Hewitt" wrote in message
...
geoff wrote in :

But I see a lack of sense of responsibility on the part of those that
think "If I can afford to waste energy, it's OK"

We're heading towards a potential energy crisis and runaway global
warming and the ostriches bury their head in the sand and think it's not
their problem

And NHS hospitals allow televisions that can't be switched off! How much
does that waste? (Add costs of a/c in summer.)

Are you saying two wrongs make a right?

geoff wrote in :

But I see a lack of sense of responsibility on the part of those that
think "If I can afford to waste energy, it's OK"

We're heading towards a potential energy crisis and runaway global
warming and the ostriches bury their head in the sand and think it's not
their problem

And NHS hospitals allow televisions that can't be switched off! How much
does that waste? (Add costs of a/c in summer.)

--
Rod

www.annalaurie.co.uk

IMM wrote:



Where? Telling someone he is doing something very stupid is not envy. I
cant see any envy.



True, I see you doing stupid things all the tome, but I don't eny you
for it.