In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2020 16:48, charles wrote:
There used to be trains that took cars while passengers slept. Motorrail.
It might be time to re-introduce them.

A retrograde step. 'all the cramped public exposure of an aircraft with
worse journey times than a private car'

You can take all your 'stuff' with you in the car. No struggling to get
to/from an airport with suitcases. And, if you private car has to amke
stops every few hours to recharge it's battery then the train might well be
quicker. If it's overnight then the actual journey time isn't very relevant

The problem with all 'public' transport is that it runs to someone elses
timetable.

Driverless taxis are a far more likely way forward...

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/11/2020 17:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:39:44 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Since your arguments are predicated on the assumption that 'low carbon'
will survive another decade.

My argument is predicated on the assumption that Covid has only
accelerated and not caused the shift away from masses of people needing
to drive masses of miles every day. The shift was happening before.


That is, to be blunt, irrelevant.

So along as everyone needs to drive reasonable distances *occasionally*,
the electric car as the sole form of domestic transport is inadequate.


(Same way looking back on media formats, vinyl was in decline *before*
CDs were extant.)

Only because people were ripping vinyl to cassette tape illegally...
That lead to the demise of the free rock concert, and all the decent
bands and the rise of cheap **** punk and rap music. A demise that CDs
only partially remedied, because CDS were even easier to rip...

In the end we had no decent music at all.

Life in 2050 is going to be very different to life in 2000, and
*everything* is going to rearrange itself around that.

In much the same way that in the 1900s, horse and cart were on the way
out, and ICE powered transport was in. And no amount of arsing around
with anything was going to stop that. Not even the combined choruses of
saddlers, farriers, blacksmiths, stables, horse breeders, trainers etc
etc.

Less than a year ago, when I was writing as much in various fora, there
were a slew of people saying I was talking out of my hole because "I
can't work from home". Guess what ? Enough of those people are now
"working from home" to have shifted the centre of gravity a bit.

I have always known that many more people could work from home than
thought they could, BUT that only emphasises the problem, We don't need
commuter trains or cars that get us to work and back. But we DO still
need a car to see granny 140 miles away, once a month.

Leccy cant do that yet. Not without a non home recharge


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 30/11/2020 17:28, charles wrote:
In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:48:19 +0000, charles wrote:


There used to be trains that took cars while passengers slept.
Motorrail.
It might be time to re-introduce them.



For internal UK journeys ?

Yes: London Penzance; London Perth amongst others. Wiki says there
were 28 station served, I think these the last two to run.

And they vanished because they were all in all pretty crap. Compared
with a motorway journey in a car



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 30/11/2020 17:51, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have always known that many more people could work from home than
thought they could, BUT that only emphasises the problem, We don't need
commuter trains or cars that get us to work and back. But we DO still
need a car to see granny 140 miles away, once a month.

Leccy cant do that yet. Not without a non home recharge

But also you don't need to own a car to sit on your drive the 29 days you
aren't seeing granny, do you ?

Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

That's the dilemma that I have as a retired low mileage person. 99% of
my journeys could be electric, but the 1% would be a nightmare in one.
And because of the tax/MOT/servicing situation owning two cars would
massively increase the cost.

As would be the hassle of hiring one: At least 10 miles to the nearest
car hire.

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 30/11/2020 17:39:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip

In the end we had no decent music at all.

I suspect you think that policemen are getting younger too.

Both beliefs are a good indication that care homes are calling your name.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2020 17:51, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have always known that many more people could work from home than
thought they could, BUT that only emphasises the problem, We don't need
commuter trains or cars that get us to work and back. But we DO still
need a car to see granny 140 miles away, once a month.

Leccy cant do that yet. Not without a non home recharge

But also you don't need to own a car to sit on your drive the 29 days you
aren't seeing granny, do you ?

Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

That's the dilemma that I have as a retired low mileage person. 99% of
my journeys could be electric, but the 1% would be a nightmare in one.
And because of the tax/MOT/servicing situation owning two cars would
massively increase the cost.

As would be the hassle of hiring one: At least 10 miles to the nearest
car hire.

I have exactly the same problem, 2 or 3 times a year I need to drive with
my harp and other luggage from Surrey to Edinburgh. I thought of hiring a
car for those longb journeys, but then discovered it's not easy to do if
you are 80. And then there's the touring summer holiday ....

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/11/2020 16:48, charles wrote:
In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:35 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't want to see the end of IC driven vehicles perhaps more than most
on here. But many of the arguments put forward against EVs are
nonsensical. Very few indeed make use of the maximum range of their car
more than a few times a year.

The biggest arguments against EVs is that they are EVs and rely on heavy
unreplaceable batteries which limit their range and charging profile to
hours rather than minutes.

Two drawbacks that have no solution in sight at the moment.

Who knows. The ultimate use for HS2 might be to take EVs from Birmingham
to London so people can drive around a few miles and then be taken back
again, possibly charging en route ?

There used to be trains that took cars while passengers slept. Motorrail.
It might be time to re-introduce them.


From Olympia, which has incredibly long platforms.
At the other end the cars were covered in brake dust and frequently
wouldn't start.

For myself I think we need an intersection of two technolgies, plus a
couple of generations to croak it. Then we'll have a mesh of autnomous
EVs that can charge whenever needed, plus a population quite happy to not
own a car when they can summon one in less than 5 minutes.

On 30/11/2020 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

You can get to Taunton by GWR and hire a car when you get there, or
get a taxi if feasible.

In message , Andrew
writes
The rear hubs on a Volvo V50 are the same as a Ford Focus. Theye are
even stamped FoMoCo.

IIRC, the V50 was built on the same under pinnings as a Focus, so there
are likely to be a few common components.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 30/11/2020 18:07, Jethro_uk wrote:

Don't underestimate the pangs of nostalgia that have driven the past few
years. It won't be long before we're all raving about 525 line B&W TV


I don't recall ever seeing it.

Bill

On 30/11/2020 12:16, Chris Green wrote:
5kW*for an hour* is 10% of 50kwH. So even for the range of existing
electric cars, say 250 miles, 5kW for the whole 250 miles at an
average of 50mph is 5 x 5 kwH, i.e. 25kwH, 50% of your battery capacity.

You wouldn't get there then.

Bill

In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 30/11/2020 18:07, Jethro_uk wrote:

Don't underestimate the pangs of nostalgia that have driven the past few
years. It won't be long before we're all raving about 525 line B&W TV


I don't recall ever seeing it.

I used to in TV Centre. My little bit did the standards conversion needed
to allow the UK's 405 line viewers to watch.

Bill

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/11/2020 13:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
Exactly: it needs a dramatic change in lifestyle to make sure that the
car is always fully charged when you set off from home in the morning
or from work in the evening

Why? Do you always make sure your fuel tank is full before every journey?


It isn't usually necessary because even a half full tank gives plenty of
miles. Unlike a totally full battery.

Bill

On 30/11/2020 11:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't think the greenies will encourage that. They don't really like
ordinary working class people having cars anyway; they think the proles
should all be on public transport, and they have no instinctive regard
for individual freedom because they are basically communistic.

Remind us of how many 'greenies' are in power?

Quite a few. This government has largely fallen for the greenie lies.


Bill

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:35 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't want to see the end of IC driven vehicles perhaps more than most
on here. But many of the arguments put forward against EVs are
nonsensical. Very few indeed make use of the maximum range of their car
more than a few times a year.

The biggest arguments against EVs is that they are EVs and rely on heavy
unreplaceable batteries which limit their range and charging profile to
hours rather than minutes.

So tell us how often you make a return trip in one go of more than 250
miles? Even more so last minute.

Two drawbacks that have no solution in sight at the moment.

Who knows. The ultimate use for HS2 might be to take EVs from Birmingham
to London so people can drive around a few miles and then be taken back
again, possibly charging en route ?

Most half decent EVs claim a range of more than that.

For myself I think we need an intersection of two technolgies, plus a
couple of generations to croak it. Then we'll have a mesh of autnomous
EVs that can charge whenever needed, plus a population quite happy to not
own a car when they can summon one in less than 5 minutes.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:53:40 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 13:54:27 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
NY wrote:
Exactly: it needs a dramatic change in lifestyle to make sure that
the car is always fully charged when you set off from home in the
morning or from work in the evening

Why? Do you always make sure your fuel tank is full before every
journey?

Isn't that a Highway Code point about ensuring your car is prepared for
a journey. Tyre condition and pressures, screen wash etc etc ?

Meaning you check all of those as well as filling it up, before a trip
to the shops?

Of course not

But if I should run out of fuel on a trip to the shops, I wouldn't be
Daily Mail sadfacing it either.

This isn't the Daily Mail. Or rather, not always.

--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/11/2020 18:06, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:03:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 30/11/2020 17:51, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

But if "your" car can be whizzing around carrying other people instead of
preventing your drive getting wet - and making money doing it ...

and when you get it back you can - as spinal taps drummer did - drown in
*someone elses* vomit.


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

Dave Plowman (News) explained :
They managed perfectly well to put parking metres in every bay when it
suited. They dig up the roads to run fibre in as and when needed. Etc.

How much do you think it would cost to equip every house with a charging
point outside it in the road - done all at the same time?

There is a world of difference between parking meters, needing zero
infrastructure, or running fibre down the street and that of providing
lots of 100+ amp supplies at the side of roads every few yards - like
generation, distribution, sub-stations, plus major and expensive
improvements in the distribution network.

On 2020-11-30, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) explained :
They managed perfectly well to put parking metres in every bay when it
suited. They dig up the roads to run fibre in as and when needed. Etc.

How much do you think it would cost to equip every house with a charging
point outside it in the road - done all at the same time?

There is a world of difference between parking meters, needing zero
infrastructure, or running fibre down the street and that of providing
lots of 100+ amp supplies at the side of roads every few yards - like
generation, distribution, sub-stations, plus major and expensive
improvements in the distribution network.

Not to mention the copper wombles getting an early christmas present...

--
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 30 Nov 2020 at 18:40:09 GMT, charles wrote:

In article , williamwright
wrote:
On 30/11/2020 18:07, Jethro_uk wrote:

Don't underestimate the pangs of nostalgia that have driven the
past few years. It won't be long before we're all raving about 525
line B&W TV


I don't recall ever seeing it.

I used to in TV Centre. My little bit did the standards conversion
needed to allow the UK's 405 line viewers to watch.

525 was what the Yanks used.

that is why we needed Standards Conversion.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles wrote:
In article ,


There used to be trains that took cars while passengers slept. Motorrail.
It might be time to re-introduce them.


And an overwhelming financial success they were for BR too.... um, not. I
believe that brake dust from trains is also nasty for car paintwork. Car
manufacturers stopped shipping new cars that way for this reason.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2020 17:51, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have always known that many more people could work from home than
thought they could, BUT that only emphasises the problem, We don't need
commuter trains or cars that get us to work and back. But we DO still
need a car to see granny 140 miles away, once a month.

Leccy cant do that yet. Not without a non home recharge

But also you don't need to own a car to sit on your drive the 29 days you
aren't seeing granny, do you ?

Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

That's the dilemma that I have as a retired low mileage person. 99% of
my journeys could be electric, but the 1% would be a nightmare in one.
And because of the tax/MOT/servicing situation owning two cars would
massively increase the cost.

As would be the hassle of hiring one: At least 10 miles to the nearest
car hire.


Well obviously it depends on where you live but I wouldnt have thought it
would be *that* hard to find a hire company in the direction that youre
planning to go anyway and then just swap cars.

Yes, its a complication that weve not had to deal with in the past but if
the demand is there, then Im sure it will get easier. Maybe well all
just have an account with a local hire company to speed up the
pick-up/drop-off palaver?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
There is a world of difference between parking meters, needing zero
infrastructure, or running fibre down the street and that of providing
lots of 100+ amp supplies at the side of roads every few yards - like
generation, distribution, sub-stations, plus major and expensive
improvements in the distribution network.

We already have a high amp supply to nearly every house. Largely unused at
night. Nor will the average car user need to charge the battery from empty
to full every night.

Not sure of the current figures but average car mileage used to be given
as about 10,000 miles a year. That is less than one full charge a week.

--
*What happens if you get scared half to death twice? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/11/2020 21:19, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2020 17:51, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I have always known that many more people could work from home than
thought they could, BUT that only emphasises the problem, We don't need
commuter trains or cars that get us to work and back. But we DO still
need a car to see granny 140 miles away, once a month.

Leccy cant do that yet. Not without a non home recharge

But also you don't need to own a car to sit on your drive the 29 days you
aren't seeing granny, do you ?

Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

That's the dilemma that I have as a retired low mileage person. 99% of
my journeys could be electric, but the 1% would be a nightmare in one.
And because of the tax/MOT/servicing situation owning two cars would
massively increase the cost.

As would be the hassle of hiring one: At least 10 miles to the nearest
car hire.


Well obviously it depends on where you live but I wouldnt have thought it
would be *that* hard to find a hire company in the direction that youre
planning to go anyway and then just swap cars.

Yes, its a complication that weve not had to deal with in the past but if
the demand is there, then Im sure it will get easier. Maybe well all
just have an account with a local hire company to speed up the
pick-up/drop-off palaver?

Tim

civilisation advances because better, not worse, solutions are available.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 30/11/2020 11:20, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
As a percentage of the cost of a new EV, I doubt they are that
expensive - especially when they are made by the million.

what is going to cost money is installing the infrastructure needed to
power them.

I think that may be over estimated. All the houses here already have an
80
amp supply. No restrictions via the main feeders on how much you use of
that in practice. And peak demand - cooking etc - is likely to be at the
same sort of times. So charging a car overnight may well not overload
the
feeders. It's not as if everyone will need to charge every car from
empty
to full every single day.

I was thinking of the infra-structure needed for supplies at the edge of
the road for those who park there.

I think that would never happen. If you look at where those cars get
driven, apart from the school run, almost all of them end up in public car
parks at the supermarket, or in a town centre for visits to the shops.
Those are ideal locations for charging stations.

well that wasn't the case for Mr and Mrs "Trip to Bournemouth", was it

On 01/12/2020 12:07, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 30/11/2020 11:20, charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* charles wrote:
As a percentage of the cost of a new EV, I doubt they are that
expensive - especially when they are made by the million.

what is going to cost money is installing the infrastructure needed to
power them.

I think that may be over estimated. All the houses here already have
an 80
amp supply. No restrictions via the main feeders on how much you use of
that in practice. And peak demand - cooking etc - is likely to be at
the
same sort of times. So charging a car overnight may well not
overload the
feeders. It's not as if everyone will need to charge every car from
empty
to full every single day.

I was thinking of the infra-structure needed for supplies at the edge of
the road for those who park there.

I think that would never happen. If you look at where those cars get
driven, apart from the school run, almost all of them end up in public
car parks at the supermarket, or in a town centre for visits to the
shops. Those are ideal locations for charging stations.

well that wasn't the case for Mr and Mrs "Trip to Bournemouth", was it


I was talking about the problem of on street charging at that point, not
range.

Realistically if the range were 600 miles that would not have happened,
but on street charging would still be an issue




--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 30/11/2020 19:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Most half decent EVs claim a range of more than that.

With a new battery.

Bill

On 30/11/2020 19:38, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

There is a world of difference between parking meters, needing zero
infrastructure, or running fibre down the street and that of providing
lots of 100+ amp supplies at the side of roads every few yards - like
generation, distribution, sub-stations, plus major and expensive
improvements in the distribution network.

Hypothetically, wouldn't it be better to run 11,000V to each charger?

Bill

On 30/11/2020 19:47, Ian wrote:


Not to mention the copper wombles getting an early christmas present...


No that won't happen. They'll use fibre...

Bill

On Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 8:22:12 PM UTC, wrote:
On 29/11/2020 16:40, fred wrote:

I disagree. They should have planned a re-charge before their battery was too depleted, even if this meant stopping on the way up. I regularly do a trip which exceeds my battery capacity. I have located a charge point 75%of the journey on the out leg. At my destination I again have access to a choice of charge points which means if my first choice on the way up isn't available I can still manage the first leg of my journey. If all these choices are unavailable I can head for a near big city where there are multiple choices.
I've only ever once had a non functioning charge station. I did have to wait a short while on one other occasion when the fast charge point was occupied but I didn't have to wait too long and anyway could have started with an available slow charger if necessary. Max charge time on a fast charge is generally 45minutes after which a penalty kicks in so people do not tend to hog the charge point. 30 minutes fast charge gives me in excess of 100 miles. All it takes is a little planning not unlike making a journey in a small plane where you're going to masked bloody sure you have sufficient fuel AND a contingency plan

Good grief, what a palaver! My equivalent is: drive until the fuel gauge
reads about half way, start looking for a filling station, fill up.

Planning it like an aeroplane journey indeed! What a load of arse!

Bill

If its alI beyond you don't let it bother you.

I didn't suggest planning it like a plane journey merely offered it as a comparison.

So if you intended a trek across the barren north you wouldn't bother researching re-fueling points?

Its pointless comparing electric car usage to either diesel or petrol vehicles. Their usage is only in its infancy. It might not be that long before the see-saw dips the other way and fossil fuel availability may be restricted while electric will have passed it. Anyway battery technology is constantly improving and longer distances will soon be available

On 01/12/2020 12:35, fred wrote:
Anyway battery technology is constantly improving and longer distances will soon be available

In 20 years since I first encountered lithium batteries energy density
has not even doubled.

Your faith is touching.


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 30/11/2020 19:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Most half decent EVs claim a range of more than that.

With a new battery.

Have you data about how the batteries last? They ain't like the leisure
battery in your mobile home. ;-)

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/12/2020 13:32:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 30/11/2020 19:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Most half decent EVs claim a range of more than that.

With a new battery.

Have you data about how the batteries last? They ain't like the leisure
battery in your mobile home. ;-)

It seems they are very unlike leisure batteries you're familiar with:

https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101...s-battery-last

"At that, the batteries in all electric cars sold in the U.S. are
covered under warranty for at least 8 years or 100,000 miles. Kia covers
the battery packs in its electric cars for 10 years/100,000 miles, while
Hyundai goes a step further by bumping it up to lifetime coverage."

"Be aware, however, that some automakers only cover the battery pack
against a complete loss of its ability to hold a charge, which would be
extremely rare. Others, including BMW, Chevrolet, Nissan, Tesla (Model
3) and Volkswagen will replace the pack if it falls to a specified
capacity percentage while under warranty, which is usually 60-70 percent."

I have read elsewhere that you should expect a degradation of 2%
capacity each year.

Jethro_uk wrote:
A much bigger issue is the complete rewriting of the law regarding what a
"public" highway is, if you are going to festoon it with access points
for EVs.

One of the biggest showstoppers here will be folk suddenly realising that
EV charging might allow an end run around the current principle that you
don't own the road outside your house.

You can get a disabled parking bay put in outside your house. It's not 'your'
disabled bay, it's for use by anyone with a disabled badge. In practice
that means the occupant badge-holder (or their carers etc), but technically
someone with a badge who is visiting next door could use it too.

It would be the same with EVs. You can apply to get a bay installed but the
caveat is that anyone with an EV can use it. In practice Mr Tesla isn't
going to be Smug so more when the second person on the street gets an EV.

Theo

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:58:46 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

"Be aware, however, that some automakers only cover the battery pack
against a complete loss of its ability to hold a charge, which would be
extremely rare.

That sounds like a guarantee that your crankshaft won't crack. When my
Dad worked for a motor manufacturer, they started introducing extended
warranties. They asked my Dad what bits of an engine never went wrong in
his experience. That list ended up as being fully covered by the policy.
From memory it was crankshaft; flywheel; con rods; camshafts - all
guaranteed for the life of the car assuming (in those days) dealer
servicing, and no loss of oil.

Of course if you've paid for dealer servicing, you've likely already paid
for a new engine a few times over anyway.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/12/2020 12:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2020 12:35, fred wrote:
Anyway battery technology is constantly improving and longer distances
will soon be available

In 20 years since I first encountered lithium batteries energy density
has not even doubled.

Your faith is touching.



Whist painting today I had the radio on in the background and there was
a article on electric vehicles. One contributor seemed to believe that
the utopian era of zero road fund tax, zero congestion charges and cheap
refuelling energy would go on forever hence the purchase and running
cost of a EV would always be cheaper that running petrol/diesel.

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On 30/11/2020 15:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't want to see the end of IC driven vehicles perhaps more than most
on here. But many of the arguments put forward against EVs are
nonsensical. Very few indeed make use of the maximum range of their car
more than a few times a year.


A the ranges for EV is when the batteries are new and haven't been
abused with fast charging!

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On 01/12/2020 16:40:22, alan_m wrote:
On 30/11/2020 15:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't want to see the end of IC driven vehicles perhaps more than most
on here. But many of the arguments put forward against EVs are
nonsensical. Very few indeed make use of the maximum range of their car
more than a few times a year.


A the ranges for EV is when the batteries are new and haven't been
abused with fast charging!

I read an article that suggested fast charging doesn't affect capacity
by much. An example:

https://www.myev.com/research/intere...r-electric-car

Suggests that in a very hot area, regular fast charging a battery after
50,000 miles, the fast charge battery will deteriorate by 27% vs slower
charging at 23%.

If done occasionally I doubt you'll ever notice.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 30/11/2020 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Thais a matter of opinion. And relative cost. If you have to leave your
electric car sitting on your drive - all taxeds and insured - AND hire a
fuel car to get to Taunton, then it gets more expensive that having the
fuel car and dumping the leccy.

You can get to Taunton by GWR

loaded up with Christmas presents

probably at greater cost than hiring a car if there's 2 or more of you

On 30/11/2020 17:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2020 16:48, charles wrote:
There used to be trains that took cars while passengers slept. Motorrail.
It might be time to re-introduce them.

A retrograde step. 'all the cramped public exposure of an aircraft with
worse journey times than a private car'

The problem with all 'public' transport is that it runs to someone elses
timetable.

And not everyone in the country lives at the start point of that kind of
journey nor the end point is the final destination.

The 220 miles journey that I regularly do by car can be done by public
transport on two routes.
One requires 4 different trains and gets me to 20 miles of my final
destination. The other 5 different trains and gets me to 9 miles of my
final destination.


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