I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
--
Roland Perry

On Friday, 9 October 2020 at 09:48:28 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
--
Roland Perry

Yes the same happens with ours cannot say if it is a bug or a feature but I suspect few manufacturers will admit it is not a feature.

Richard

On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

That's the default. Possibly for security. But you can chenge the
cylinder for an Anto Lockout one.

https://www.handlestore.com/locks/an...euro-cylinders


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

There aren't many locks where you can insert a key from the outside if there
is a key on the inside. The standard locks fitted to patio doors etc will
accept the second key - it feels as if it has gone all the way in - but it
will not turn if there is a key on the other side.

Several times when I've gone out to do the shopping and left my wife working
from home, she has put the key on the inside after I've gone (even though
I've locked the key from the outside and left the inside key out of the
lock), which means I get back and find myself locked out - until I can make
myself heard by knocking/ringing. Now I tend to leave *two* doors with no
key in them, so if the front door is blocked by a key in the lock, there's
always the back door.

On 09/10/2020 09:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

That's the default. Possibly for security. But you can chenge the
cylinder for an Anto Lockout one.

https://www.handlestore.com/locks/an...euro-cylinders

They don't meet TS007, though, none of the Auto Lockout ones do.

--
Spike

On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 10:16:47 +0100, NY wrote:

There aren't many locks where you can insert a key from the outside if
there is a key on the inside. The standard locks fitted to patio doors
etc will accept the second key - it feels as if it has gone all the way
in - but it will not turn if there is a key on the other side.

Change the cylinder for an Anti Lockout one.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Well most locks have been that way for many years. That is why if I go out
of the back I take the key out.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:16:47 on Fri, 9 Oct 2020,
NY remarked:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

There aren't many locks where you can insert a key from the outside if
there is a key on the inside.

My current house is the first time I've noticed this.

The standard locks fitted to patio doors etc will accept the second key
- it feels as if it has gone all the way in - but it will not turn if
there is a key on the other side.

Several times when I've gone out to do the shopping and left my wife
working from home, she has put the key on the inside after I've gone
(even though I've locked the key from the outside and left the inside
key out of the lock), which means I get back and find myself locked out
- until I can make myself heard by knocking/ringing.

Welcome to my world

Now I tend to leave *two* doors with no key in them, so if the front
door is blocked by a key in the lock, there's always the back door.

My house is on a rather narrow plot and there's no side passage. It's a
three minute walk round the block (the back gate is on a different
street) to get from one outside door to the other.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders, i.e. Kaba,
Keso etc.


Thomas

"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders, i.e.
Kaba,
Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can* put
a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a second
key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an emergency. They could
have a slide-latch which disables opening from the outside if required for
extra security when you know that everyone who lives in the house is safely
inside.

In message , at 13:18:40 on
Fri, 9 Oct 2020, Thomas Prufer
remarked:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders, i.e. Kaba,
Keso etc.

Mine are Ultion 3-star (£45 retail each, apparently)
--
Roland Perry

On 09/10/2020 12:23, NY wrote:
snip

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an emergency.
They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from the outside if
required for extra security when you know that everyone who lives in the
house is safely inside.

They may also have thought it wd not be better in some rarer but
important cases: eg you lost a key with your address and haven't had
time to get the lock changed; you've a violent partner you want to keep
out for a while; you don't want to be caught in the act.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 13:18:40 +0200, Thomas Prufer wrote:

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders, i.e.
Kaba,
Keso etc.

Anti Lockout ones seem to start at about 15 quid.


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 13:18:40 +0200, Thomas Prufer wrote:

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders, i.e. Kaba,
Keso etc.

Thomas

With my old 5-'lever' locks I was able to shorten the keys a bit and it
/just/ worked, but it was fraught: the shortened keys were marginal on
unlocking and the clearance was so small that it didn't always work. The
risk was too great, especially as locking was less unreliable than
unlocking!
The current 6-lever ones can't be done that way. The only way is to leave
the inside key dead upright so that it can be pushed back and perhaps
withdraw it by a notch. It's still in the lock for emergencies and the lock
can be operated from outside.
I have a couple of thumb-turn locks but they don't have a deadlock position.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

+1
I changed mine for thumbturn locks a few years ago, and went for
single key locking at the same time.

On 09/10/2020 16:33, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

The problem (or "problem") with that is if someone breaks in when you are
out, they simply open the front door to exit.
Advice used to be that once someone had broken in it was better not to
impede their escape because of risk of further damage or confrontation -
I assume that's still the case.

I am astounded at how easy it's been for uPVC door/lock manufacturers to
completely and utterly get most of the population to throw away 2 basic
design features of Yale locks with nary a whisper.

(I know this because when we fitted our firs uPVC door I posted here
about them to a general "You what ?" from everyone ...)

1) - the fact you need a key to lock it from the inside
2) - the lack of a latch as standard so you can close the door locked
without needing a key.

The second I asked a few fitters about to a blank look. Although I note
with satisfaction that my sons front door does have one ...
This is provided by a thumb turn lock

In message
Jethro_uk wrote:

On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

The problem (or "problem") with that is if someone breaks in when you are
out, they simply open the front door to exit.

Well if you leave the key in the lock what is the difference?

I am astounded at how easy it's been for uPVC door/lock manufacturers to
completely and utterly get most of the population to throw away 2 basic
design features of Yale locks with nary a whisper.

(I know this because when we fitted our firs uPVC door I posted here
about them to a general "You what ?" from everyone ...)

1) - the fact you need a key to lock it from the inside
2) - the lack of a latch as standard so you can close the door locked
without needing a key.

The second I asked a few fitters about to a blank look. Although I note
with satisfaction that my sons front door does have one ...


--
John Bryan

On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

That's OK unless the door has a glass panel.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message , at 15:29:25 on Fri, 9 Oct
2020, remarked:
On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.
Is this a bug or a feature?

If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

They are already new (well, three months old). I was just wondering why
they had this "issue".
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:33:27 on Fri, 9 Oct
2020, Jethro_uk remarked:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

The problem (or "problem") with that is if someone breaks in when you are
out, they simply open the front door to exit.

I am astounded at how easy it's been for uPVC door/lock manufacturers to
completely and utterly get most of the population to throw away 2 basic
design features of Yale locks with nary a whisper.

(I know this because when we fitted our firs uPVC door I posted here
about them to a general "You what ?" from everyone ...)

1) - the fact you need a key to lock it from the inside
2) - the lack of a latch as standard so you can close the door locked
without needing a key.

The second I asked a few fitters about to a blank look. Although I note
with satisfaction that my sons front door does have one ...

The second one is more to do with the way the doors work, than the lock.
Almost all uPVC doors require you to lift the handle up to engage the
(usually multiple) bolts.
--
Roland Perry

Jethro_uk Wrote in message:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

The problem (or "problem") with that is if someone breaks in when you are
out, they simply open the front door to exit.

I am astounded at how easy it's been for uPVC door/lock manufacturers to
completely and utterly get most of the population to throw away 2 basic
design features of Yale locks with nary a whisper.

(I know this because when we fitted our firs uPVC door I posted here
about them to a general "You what ?" from everyone ...)

1) - the fact you need a key to lock it from the inside
2) - the lack of a latch as standard so you can close the door locked
without needing a key.

The second I asked a few fitters about to a blank look. Although I note
with satisfaction that my sons front door does have one ...


Your sons door won't be "locked" in that instance though will it?
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , at 07:16:52 on Sat, 10 Oct
2020, Jethro_uk remarked:

I am astounded at how easy it's been for uPVC door/lock manufacturers to
completely and utterly get most of the population to throw away 2 basic
design features of Yale locks with nary a whisper.

(I know this because when we fitted our firs uPVC door I posted here
about them to a general "You what ?" from everyone ...)

1) - the fact you need a key to lock it from the inside 2) - the lack of
a latch as standard so you can close the door locked without needing a
key.

The second I asked a few fitters about to a blank look. Although I note
with satisfaction that my sons front door does have one ...

The second one is more to do with the way the doors work, than the lock.
Almost all uPVC doors require you to lift the handle up to engage the
(usually multiple) bolts.

And ?

The multiple bolts make the door close more firmly and keeps out
draughts. More secure too.

No different to the fact that the traditional front door had a level
action lock as well as the Yale lock with latch.

Very different - that's just one bolt.

Just lazy design and marketing.

If you want *only* a Yale lock, I suppose you could fit one, and disable
the door's normal locking mechanisms.
--
Roland Perry

Jethro_uk Wrote in message:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 08:24:40 +0100, Jimk wrote:

Jethro_uk Wrote in message:
On Fri, 09 Oct 2020 15:29:25 +0100, nothanks wrote:

On 09/10/2020 09:42, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?
If you're going to change the cylinder then get one with a "thumb
turn"
so you don't need to leave a key anywhere near the inside of the door.

The problem (or "problem") with that is if someone breaks in when you
are out, they simply open the front door to exit.

I am astounded at how easy it's been for uPVC door/lock manufacturers
to completely and utterly get most of the population to throw away 2
basic design features of Yale locks with nary a whisper.

(I know this because when we fitted our firs uPVC door I posted here
about them to a general "You what ?" from everyone ...)

1) - the fact you need a key to lock it from the inside 2) - the lack
of a latch as standard so you can close the door locked without needing
a key.

The second I asked a few fitters about to a blank look. Although I note
with satisfaction that my sons front door does have one ...


Your sons door won't be "locked" in that instance though will it?

No, but the same as a traditional Yale lock - no key, no entry.

So why does anyone bother with multipoint locks ? Hmmmmmm......


--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking them
and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key fully in
from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders, i.e.
Kaba,
Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an emergency.
They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from the outside if
required for extra security when you know that everyone who lives in the
house is safely inside.

or just install one with a thumb turn on the inside

there's no need to have a key-lockable lock on the inside

"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 09/10/2020 12:23, NY wrote:
snip

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an emergency.
They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from the outside if
required for extra security when you know that everyone who lives in the
house is safely inside.

They may also have thought it wd not be better in some rarer but important
cases: eg you lost a key with your address and haven't had time to get the
lock changed; you've a violent partner you want to keep out for a while;
you don't want to be caught in the act.

so just install separate door bolts

In article , tim...
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders,
i.e. Kaba, Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an
emergency. They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from
the outside if required for extra security when you know that everyone
who lives in the house is safely inside.

or just install one with a thumb turn on the inside

there's no need to have a key-lockable lock on the inside

If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local Police
Crime Prevention Officer.




--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 12/10/2020 11:06, charles wrote:
If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local Police
Crime Prevention Officer.

Plod is thick isn't he?


--
€œThose who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.€�

€• Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles Ã* M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie Ã* Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 12/10/2020 11:06, charles wrote:
If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local
Police Crime Prevention Officer.

Plod is thick isn't he?

actually, no. I kow him quite well.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 11:06:08 +0100, charles wrote:

In article , tim...
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders,
i.e. Kaba, Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you
*can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving
a second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an
emergency. They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from
the outside if required for extra security when you know that
everyone who lives in the house is safely inside.

or just install one with a thumb turn on the inside

there's no need to have a key-lockable lock on the inside

If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local
Police Crime Prevention Officer.




Or if the door itself has even a small window.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"charles" wrote in message
...
If someone has broken in via a window, an easy-open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill-gotten goods. Advice from our local Police
Crime Prevention Officer.

When someone broke into my parents' house, my mum is sure she disturbed the
burglars. She got back and found that the Yale lock in the front door
wouldn't open, so she went round the back to try the back door - which was
locked but she was able to unlock it. She found the front door now wide
open, and some cash missing from a drawer in the bedroom. Seems that the
burglars had locked the front door to give themselves some warning of when
the owner came home, and then made their escape while my mum went round the
back. My grandma was sitting in the car by the front door and saw nothing of
the men passing right by her...

I remember we all had to go down to the local police station to be
fingerprinted so our prints could be eliminated from ones that the SOCO
took - this was in the days when break-ins were still investigated by the
police.

It seems that the burglars were very small or had used a child to gain
entry, because the window where they got in was a small fanlight at the top
of a window frame round the back: dad had removed the catch the day before
while he repainted the window, and had left the window closed but unlocked,
planning to refit the catch once the paint was fully dry. The insurance
company said this window was so small that they didn't consider it as
"leaving the house insecure".

Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 11:32:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 12/10/2020 11:06, charles wrote:
If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local
Police Crime Prevention Officer.

Plod is thick isn't he?

Strikes me as sound advice. Someone leaving via the front door is
invisible, whereas someone exiting via a broken window is a tad more
conspicious. Certainly it was one reason why I didn't fit thumbturns to
our doors.

Surely there aren't many houses actually left in a state where you
can't leave without 'breaking out'. I know it's recommended but in
the real world does one ever actually make a house that secure? It is
also rather dangerous unless you *always* unlock all the locked
windows and doors when you return so that escape in an emergency is
easier.

--
Chris Green
·

In message , at 12:41:34 on Mon, 12
Oct 2020, Chris Green remarked:
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 11:32:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 12/10/2020 11:06, charles wrote:
If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local
Police Crime Prevention Officer.

Plod is thick isn't he?

Strikes me as sound advice. Someone leaving via the front door is
invisible, whereas someone exiting via a broken window is a tad more
conspicious. Certainly it was one reason why I didn't fit thumbturns to
our doors.

Surely there aren't many houses actually left in a state where you
can't leave without 'breaking out'.

Especially as new windows fitted since ? are supposed to have
escape mechanisms [in case of fire].

I know it's recommended but in the real world does one ever actually
make a house that secure? It is also rather dangerous unless you
*always* unlock all the locked windows and doors when you return so
that escape in an emergency is easier.


--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Surely there aren't many houses actually left in a state where you
can't leave without 'breaking out'.

Especially as new windows fitted since ? Â* are supposed to have
escape mechanisms [in case of fire].

A window that can be locked, and the key removed still meets the
requirement of an "escape window" providing it it large enough and can
be retained open without being needing to be held.

In message , at 11:10:47 on Tue, 13
Oct 2020, Andy Burns remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Surely there aren't many houses actually left in a state where you
can't leave without 'breaking out'.
Especially as new windows fitted since ? * are supposed to have
escape mechanisms [in case of fire].

A window that can be locked, and the key removed still meets the
requirement of an "escape window" providing it it large enough and can
be retained open without being needing to be held.

Finding it hard to parse that. Are you saying an escape window can be
locked closed, and the key discarded, meaning it's no longer possible to
use it for escaping?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

A window that can be locked, and the key removed still meets the
requirement of an "escape window" providing it it large enough and can
be retained open without being needing to be held.

Finding it hard to parse that. Are you saying an escape window can be
locked closed, and the key discarded, meaning it's no longer possible to
use it for escaping?

yes.

Building regs, document B1, Section 2.10

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

A window that can be locked, and the key removed still meets the
requirement of an "escape window" providing it it large enough and can
be retained open without being needing to be held.

Finding it hard to parse that. Are you saying an escape window can be
locked closed, and the key discarded, meaning it's no longer possible to
use it for escaping?

yes.

Building regs, document B1, Section 2.10

So the only way to escape through it is to break the glass and clear the
broken glass away from the frame so you can climb through it. And that's
classed as "an escape window"? That building reg would seem to be utterly
absurd ;-)

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , tim...
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders,
i.e. Kaba, Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an
emergency. They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from
the outside if required for extra security when you know that everyone
who lives in the house is safely inside.

or just install one with a thumb turn on the inside

there's no need to have a key-lockable lock on the inside

If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local Police
Crime Prevention Officer.

horses for courses

If there's only one permanent occupant of the house, then there's no
possibility of you leaving the key on the inside in the first place, so key
lock on the inside works

OTOH, if there's a possibility of someone being in the house when other
occupant is out, there MUST be a way of easily opening the door from the
inside in case of fire - either a thumb wheel or easily accessible key, so
ANO Burglar could use that as well

if you want 100% security when everyone is out of the house install a second
lock, only accessible from the outside


tim

On 2020-10-14, tim... wrote:



"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , tim...
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders,
i.e. Kaba, Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you *can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an
emergency. They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from
the outside if required for extra security when you know that everyone
who lives in the house is safely inside.

or just install one with a thumb turn on the inside

there's no need to have a key-lockable lock on the inside

If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local Police
Crime Prevention Officer.

horses for courses

If there's only one permanent occupant of the house, then there's no
possibility of you leaving the key on the inside in the first place, so key
lock on the inside works

OTOH, if there's a possibility of someone being in the house when other
occupant is out, there MUST be a way of easily opening the door from the
inside in case of fire - either a thumb wheel or easily accessible key, so
ANO Burglar could use that as well

if you want 100% security when everyone is out of the house install a second
lock, only accessible from the outside

But that's a severe risk in the (unlikely) event you're mistaken about
the house being empty when you go out.

IMO one of the biggest common security risks in this country is letter
slots in the door.

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2020-10-14, tim... wrote:



"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , tim...
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in
message
...
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 09:42:13 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got some Euro locks on external doors, but people keep locking
them and leaving the key on the inside. This means I can't put a key
fully in from the outside to unlock it.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Feature.

This can be changed by a locksmith in the more expensive cylinders,
i.e. Kaba, Keso etc.

It would have been better if those locks had been designed so you
*can*
put a key in from the outside and open the door, while still leaving
a
second key in the inside lock in case you need to exit in an
emergency. They could have a slide-latch which disables opening from
the outside if required for extra security when you know that
everyone
who lives in the house is safely inside.

or just install one with a thumb turn on the inside

there's no need to have a key-lockable lock on the inside

If someone has broken in via a window, an easy=open door makes it far
easier to escape with his ill=gottten goods. Advice from our local
Police
Crime Prevention Officer.

horses for courses

If there's only one permanent occupant of the house, then there's no
possibility of you leaving the key on the inside in the first place, so
key
lock on the inside works

OTOH, if there's a possibility of someone being in the house when other
occupant is out, there MUST be a way of easily opening the door from the
inside in case of fire - either a thumb wheel or easily accessible key,
so
ANO Burglar could use that as well

if you want 100% security when everyone is out of the house install a
second
lock, only accessible from the outside

But that's a severe risk in the (unlikely) event you're mistaken about
the house being empty when you go out.

You don't use it every time you all go out

I only use my secondary deadlock when I am off for a (three week) holiday

and the pile of bags by the door is a clue that everybody has left the house