I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

--


(News)

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a fairly
high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts with a 100%
mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

"Chris B" wrote in message
...
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs to
save him the time of a visit) which includes £199 Plus VAT for listed
parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.

Thats not necessarily the price he pays for the parts he uses tho.

I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade prices
and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry or
is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?

Or he does want it at that price.

So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.


Maybe he keeps his hourly rate down that way. He might admit it if you
point out "your" prices.

Perhaps he gets his spares from somewhere with a high list price but a
big trade discount.

IIRC the Radiospares trade discount was 40% on the public price.

On 02/10/2020 19:38, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus
VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

Which if you literally do that (i.e. sell at your buy price), means you
lose money on every part sold - since procurement takes your time, and
bites into your cash flow, warranty replacements then just increase that
loss.

However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a fairly
high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts with a 100%
mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:


100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.


And maybe the price also has an allowance for some of the consumables to
fit it.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I always marked parts up 30% to allow for stocking, warranties, etc.

Bill

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:

The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.

But how many other suppliers did you discard because the same items were
more expensive? As a customer you perhaps have the ability to search the
internet for hours to find the cheapest price at no cost for your own
labour.



I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Thee days trade doesn't always mean a discount - it may just mean they
have 30 days to pay. Just turn up at Screwfix, Toolstation, Wickes and
even B&Q early morning and see how many people in white vans buying the
same goods as you can buy.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

I think its a good point about the procurement, as somebody has to find the
parts and buy them, and that time has to be paid for of course.
I can remember a friend who used to repair electronic things before the
days of surface mount made it a job for the brave, and often he would get a
call from somebody who said a chip had gone, but he did not have the
confidence to change it himself, hoping that my friend would do it very
cheaply. Often he would do the job, but equally often the original person
did not take into account that the faulty chip might have been caused by a
fault elsewhere so he always checked the circuit and this made the bill
higher of course. but some people just won't accept this sort of knowledge
driven repair strategy.
I don't know about boilers but often the reason why boards are swapped is
not because changing the parts is hard but because the time taken to fault
find the pcb, would make the repair cost much higher.
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:


100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.


And maybe the price also has an allowance for some of the consumables to
fit it.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:38, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

Which if you literally do that (i.e. sell at your buy price), means you
lose money on every part sold - since procurement takes your time, and
bites into your cash flow, warranty replacements then just increase that
loss.

Part of that is clearly time and hence billable as such. I'm not sure
about risk of faulty parts, incurred as an intermediary.


However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a fairly
high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts with a
100% mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.


Surely it should depend on time and risk?

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.



There's a difference between the costs of goods in wholesalers and the
prices in supermarkets as well. Something has to pay for the last mile,
promotions, staff and buildings.

--
Adrian C

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?...

It is normal to charge list price. However, when I had trade accounts
for my business, the trade discount varied from 15% to 65% from the same
supplier, depending upon the item.



--
Colin Bignell

Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I think the 'tradesman' has a number of problems nowadays:-

If you shop around you can nearly always find bits and pieces more
cheaply on eBay or Amazon.

The tradesman needs to buy everything he uses quickly and simply
from just one or two suppliers, he can't spend his time searching
for the best price on the internet - time is money

The 'trade discount' may not be all that much, or even available
to a one-man business.

It *might* be worth asking if the tradesman would be happy if you
source the parts.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green Wrote in message:
Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199 Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I think the 'tradesman' has a number of problems nowadays:-

If you shop around you can nearly always find bits and pieces more
cheaply on eBay or Amazon.

The tradesman needs to buy everything he uses quickly and simply
from just one or two suppliers, he can't spend his time searching
for the best price on the internet - time is money

The 'trade discount' may not be all that much, or even available
to a one-man business.

It *might* be worth asking if the tradesman would be happy if you
source the parts.


Although when "your" parts fail don't expect any "callback"
privileges...
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 03/10/2020 09:15, Chris Green wrote:
Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I think the 'tradesman' has a number of problems nowadays:-

If you shop around you can nearly always find bits and pieces more
cheaply on eBay or Amazon.

But these days its not "shopping around" its one google search.


The tradesman needs to buy everything he uses quickly and simply
from just one or two suppliers, he can't spend his time searching
for the best price on the internet - time is money

That is a fair point, and as someone else said I have the opportunity to
spend half a day looking for the best price. In practice however these
days with google it takes but seconds to get the best price.

For the tradesman however this could result in him having to set up
payment arrangements with dozens of different suppliers (or pay up
front), as opposed to just settling one bill at the end of the month.



The 'trade discount' may not be all that much, or even available
to a one-man business.

It *might* be worth asking if the tradesman would be happy if you
source the parts.

I can understand anyones reluctance to install parts supplied by the
customer - you might never know quite what you are letting yourself in
for - even though in this case parts would be identical part numbers I
would expect a "No".




--
Chris B (News)

In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199 Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.



There's a difference between the costs of goods in wholesalers and the
prices in supermarkets as well. Something has to pay for the last mile,
promotions, staff and buildings.

last week I visteed Screwfix and B&Q, in that order. Screwfix had masks 10
for £5. The same package was in B&Q - £6.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

You are not wasting 3 people's time if they offer quoting for the job.
They will have built in time wasters time into their quoting if they
have any sense.


I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

In article ,
Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199 Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

You need to look at the total price you'll pay before deciding. Doesn't
much matter how it is arrived at in an estimate.

--
*I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/10/2020 08:03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I think its a good point about the procurement, as somebody has to find the
parts and buy them, and that time has to be paid for of course.
I can remember a friend who used to repair electronic things before the
days of surface mount made it a job for the brave, and often he would get a
call from somebody who said a chip had gone, but he did not have the
confidence to change it himself, hoping that my friend would do it very
cheaply. Often he would do the job, but equally often the original person
did not take into account that the faulty chip might have been caused by a
fault elsewhere so he always checked the circuit and this made the bill
higher of course. but some people just won't accept this sort of knowledge
driven repair strategy.
I don't know about boilers but often the reason why boards are swapped is
not because changing the parts is hard but because the time taken to fault
find the pcb, would make the repair cost much higher.
Brian



I'd expect the time spent ordering and getting the parts to be charged
for, but I really didn't see why I should pay him twice the parts cost.

On 02/10/2020 22:24, williamwright wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus
VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I always marked parts up 30% to allow for stocking, warranties, etc.

Bill

Is that 30% above trade price, or 30% above retail? Anyway, 100% on top
of retails seems like **** taking.

On 02/10/2020 22:56, alan_m wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:

The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.

But how many other suppliers did you discard because the same items were
more expensive? As a customer you perhaps have the ability to search the
internet for hours to find the cheapest price at no cost for your own
labour.



I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Thee days trade doesn't always mean a discount - it may just mean they
have 30 days to pay.Â* Just turn up at Screwfix, Toolstation, Wickes and
even B&Q early morning and see how many people in white vans buying the
same goods as you can buy.

Even I get a 10% discount at Wickes.

On 03/10/2020 09:44, Chris B wrote:


That is a fair point, and as someone else said I have the opportunity to
spend half a day looking for the best price.Â* In practice however these
days with google it takes but seconds to get the best price.

Go and Google for the best price for, say, a TV (identical model
numbers) or white goods (identical model numbers). Prices inclusive of
delivery and only from those suppliers with stock who can deliver
quickly. You may find that it takes more than a few seconds.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/10/2020 12:17, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 22:24, williamwright wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I always marked parts up 30% to allow for stocking, warranties, etc.

Bill

Is that 30% above trade price, or 30% above retail? Anyway, 100% on top
of retails seems like **** taking.

Not if you are buying at retail price yourself and then selling on.

Many small businesses find that their "trade" prices are often only very
slightly below retail (if it at all), and in some cases they can be higher!

So if a customer wants you to supply both materials and service, they
will have to be prepared to pay the higher prices on the materials.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2020 09:44, Chris B wrote:


That is a fair point, and as someone else said I have the opportunity to
spend half a day looking for the best price.Â* In practice however these
days with google it takes but seconds to get the best price.

Go and Google for the best price for, say, a TV (identical model
numbers) or white goods (identical model numbers). Prices inclusive of
delivery and only from those suppliers with stock who can deliver
quickly. You may find that it takes more than a few seconds.

Not to mention that it's only those suppliers who pay who get their
goods onto Google Shopping (I'm assuming you mean to use Google
Shopping).

Google Shopping can be quite good for finding reasonable prices on
straightforward things but for 'insides of boilers' type things (which
is what this thread started with) it's often not the best/cheapest
approach.

--
Chris Green
·

On 03/10/2020 08:24, Pancho wrote:
On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:38, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

Which if you literally do that (i.e. sell at your buy price), means
you lose money on every part sold - since procurement takes your time,
and bites into your cash flow, warranty replacements then just
increase that loss.

Part of that is clearly time and hence billable as such. I'm not sure
about risk of faulty parts, incurred as an intermediary.

If I supply equipment to a customer, and something fails, then its my
responsibility to fix, even if the failure was not my fault.

That costs time and money, and in the circumstances, its time and money
I can't recover that from the customer if the equipment is still under
warranty.

So that is an overhead that one has to build into your prices.


Even if the OEM will replace the kit FoC, there is still the time spent
diagnosing, and orchestrating the process.

(hence why some OEMs will voluntarily take on the responsibility for
warranty support directly with end users even though they have no legal
obligation to do so - it can be a cost and risk reduction exercise for
the retailer, that makes those companies products more attractive to sell)


However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a
fairly high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts
with a 100% mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and
the product.


Surely it should depend on time and risk?

Not necessarily. For businesses that make a significant proportion of
their income though product sales, then the margins will tend to be
higher since they need to cover the majority of the costs of operating
the business. Pubs for example will typically mark up drink well in
excess of 100%, and most of those are running very close to the edge
even then.

If you go buy a sandwich in M&S you will pay several 100% over the cost
of the bread and fillings. You are paying for many things, not just the
cost of the materials.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 2 October 2020 19:24:03 UTC+1, Chris B wrote:

I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on photographs
to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199Â* Plus VAT for
listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of parts
but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at trade
prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building industry
or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples time
for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

It's a free market, they can quote what they like & you can say yes or no.

Re customers getting parts, that route is a recipe for trouble for the professional. I'm not surprised most won't get involved with that.


NT

Chris B wrote:
But these days its not "shopping around" its one google search.

But also bear in mind that random suppliers returned by that Google search
may or may not be reliable, may send the items by Hermes who fling it into a
hedge, etc. Getting everything on one delivery / one trip saves a lot of
hassle.

For example, there's a lot of merit to one-stop-shop suppliers like Farnell
- they aren't cheapest, but when your BOM is a hundred lines long it gets a
lot of hassle to try to source every part from a different supplier. You
could make one order per job, and have all the bits arrive next day in the
same box.

The tradesman needs to buy everything he uses quickly and simply
from just one or two suppliers, he can't spend his time searching
for the best price on the internet - time is money

That is a fair point, and as someone else said I have the opportunity to
spend half a day looking for the best price. In practice however these
days with google it takes but seconds to get the best price.

I suffered the opposite of this when I had a 30 year old car. I'd take it
to a garage to get say the brake pads changed. Tap,tap,tap (or in the more
basic places, ringing round their suppliers), I'm sorry we can't find the
parts. But the parts were readily available on ebay for pennies, from
decent brands just NOS that had sat on a shelf for a while (probably out of
production).

It was often an uphill struggle to convince them to let me supply my own
parts - they would complain they wouldn't get the markup on the parts. To
which my response was: fine, just quote me a price including whatever markup
you would have made. I didn't mind paying extra for that - because even if
they could buy the part for £50 and mark it up to £100, paying them £50 plus
the £10 ebay price was still a win from my point of view. Many didn't see
it that way.

(there's a risk with user-supplied parts that they don't fit, but again
that's my risk not theirs - I should still pay for their time either way.
And I spent more time staring at the parts catalogue making sure they fit
than they would ever have done)

Theo

On 03/10/2020 12:17, GB wrote:

I always marked parts up 30% to allow for stocking, warranties, etc.

Bill

Is that 30% above trade price, or 30% above retail? Anyway, 100% on top
of retails seems like **** taking.

30% mark up on what I paid. It was arbitrary really.

The facts are

1. Tradesmen need to make a certain amount of money

2. They are in competition with other providers or with alternative ways
the customer has of getting the job done.

3. The public can be unrealistic about hourly rates, because they don't
understand about overheads.

4. Some tradesmen try to hide the necessary hourly rate by excessive
mark-up on materials.

5. Some tradesmen are too cheap; some are too dear. Both of these tend
to go bust.

6. Some tradesmen are crooks, no other word for them.

Bill

On 03/10/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
Many small businesses find that their "trade" prices are often only very
slightly below retail (if it at all), and in some cases they can be higher!

Many years ago a major aerial manufacturer lost a lot of their trade
business because they were selling to the DIY sheds at much cheaper
prices than they were selling to aerial riggers. The trade simply
switched to other brands en masse.

Bill

On 03/10/2020 15:14, wrote:
Re customers getting parts, that route is a recipe for trouble for the professional. I'm not surprised most won't get involved with that.

Sometimes it's best. If they want some weird gear so they can get a
weird foreign TV channel or whatever, or if it's some radio ham wants a
strange aerial, a sensible tradesman will not offer to supply.

Bill

On Saturday, 3 October 2020 17:28:14 UTC+1, williamwright wrote:
On 03/10/2020 15:14, tabbypurr wrote:

Re customers getting parts, that route is a recipe for trouble for the professional. I'm not surprised most won't get involved with that.

Sometimes it's best. If they want some weird gear so they can get a
weird foreign TV channel or whatever, or if it's some radio ham wants a
strange aerial, a sensible tradesman will not offer to supply.

Bill

Few tradesmen will get involved in odd setups these days. Times have changed. I remember buying from a place where they had electrical stuff plugged in, some with bare live bits that should not have been live. They knew and couldn't care less.


NT

On 03/10/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2020 12:17, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 22:24, williamwright wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.

I always marked parts up 30% to allow for stocking, warranties, etc.

Bill

Is that 30% above trade price, or 30% above retail? Anyway, 100% on
top of retails seems like **** taking.

Not if you are buying at retail price yourself and then selling on.

Many small businesses find that their "trade" prices are often only very
slightly below retail (if it at all), and in some cases they can be higher!

So if a customer wants you to supply both materials and service, they
will have to be prepared to pay the higher prices on the materials.


The difference between 'trade' and 'retail' is very vague these days. A
small tradesman is probably not getting a significantly better deal than
anyone else prepared to shop around.


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:38, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

Which if you literally do that (i.e. sell at your buy price), means you
lose money on every part sold - since procurement takes your time, and
bites into your cash flow, warranty replacements then just increase that
loss.

However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a fairly
high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts with a
100% mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.



100% is pretty well par for the course in the garage trade. My
ex-MOT-tester neighbour still does it for all the private work
he still does. And he charges VAT on the bull**** 'retail' price
and then pockets the extra 20% on the markup.

On 03/10/2020 17:25, williamwright wrote:
On 03/10/2020 14:40, John Rumm wrote:
Many small businesses find that their "trade" prices are often only
very slightly below retail (if it at all), and in some cases they can
be higher!

Many years ago a major aerial manufacturer lost a lot of their trade
business because they were selling to the DIY sheds at much cheaper
prices than they were selling to aerial riggers. The trade simply
switched to other brands en masse.

Bill

I'd bet that the product sold in big volumes to the likes of
B&Q was made from thinner tubing etc, like Labgear ****e.

On 02/10/2020 22:56, alan_m wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:

The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon (not
amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.

But how many other suppliers did you discard because the same items were
more expensive? As a customer you perhaps have the ability to search the
internet for hours to find the cheapest price at no cost for your own
labour.



I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Thee days trade doesn't always mean a discount - it may just mean they
have 30 days to pay.Â* Just turn up at Screwfix, Toolstation, Wickes and
even B&Q early morning and see how many people in white vans buying the
same goods as you can buy.




even screwfix have a 'trade only' grotto now.

On 03/10/2020 17:28, williamwright wrote:
some radio ham wants a strange aerial,

Or even "some 'strange' radio ham wants an aerial" :-)

On 3 Oct 2020 at 20:15:49 BST, "Andrew"
wrote:

On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:38, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

Which if you literally do that (i.e. sell at your buy price), means you
lose money on every part sold - since procurement takes your time, and
bites into your cash flow, warranty replacements then just increase that
loss.

However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a fairly
high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts with a
100% mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.



100% is pretty well par for the course in the garage trade. My
ex-MOT-tester neighbour still does it for all the private work
he still does. And he charges VAT on the bull**** 'retail' price
and then pockets the extra 20% on the markup.

Might that explain why any garage I've had dealings with won't fit parts I'd
supply?

--
Cheers, Rob

On 03/10/2020 22:28:47, RJH wrote:
On 3 Oct 2020 at 20:15:49 BST, "Andrew"
wrote:

On 02/10/2020 21:24, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:38, GB wrote:
On 02/10/2020 19:23, Chris B wrote:
I have just received an estimate from a tradesman (based on
photographs to save him the time of a visit) which includes £199
Plus VAT for listed parts.


The very same parts are available from suppliers listed on amazon
(not amazon itself) for £96.98 Including VAT and delivery.


I know that part of the tradesman's profit comes from the Sale of
parts but I always thought that they bought parts from suppliers at
trade prices and then billed for them at retail prices.

Is a markup on parts of well over 100% typical in the building
industry or is this a simple indication that he doesn't want the job?


So far I only have one estimate, as I don't like wasting 3 peoples
time for jobs of less than half a day, when only one is going to get
the job.

I am wondering if its worth getting any more or is this typical.



As a professional, I charged for my time. If I bought in services for
clients, I passed them on at cost.

Which if you literally do that (i.e. sell at your buy price), means you
lose money on every part sold - since procurement takes your time, and
bites into your cash flow, warranty replacements then just increase that
loss.

However, I got a quote from a gas fitter recently who charged a fairly
high rate for his time AND wanted to sell me a lot of parts with a
100% mark-up. This made his hourly rate of charge really high!

100% might be taking the pee, although it depends on the market and the
product.



100% is pretty well par for the course in the garage trade. My
ex-MOT-tester neighbour still does it for all the private work
he still does. And he charges VAT on the bull**** 'retail' price
and then pockets the extra 20% on the markup.

Might that explain why any garage I've had dealings with won't fit parts I'd
supply?

Some garages will, but then qualify the fitting where if the item fails
they are not responsible.

I specifically known a local garage fit the owner's supplied discs and
pads without issue.

On 03/10/2020 22:28, RJH wrote:

Might that explain why any garage I've had dealings with won't fit parts I'd
supply?


Too many customer supplied counterfeit parts purchased on Ebay?

Need for traceability of parts from known suppliers for safety,
liability or insurance purposes?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/10/2020 20:21, Andrew wrote:

even screwfix have a 'trade only' grotto now.

Not at my local Screwfix. Customers may be trade or individuals but all
get served at the same counters.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk