All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

Regards

Avpx

--
Too many people want to *have written*.
(alt.fan.pratchett)
13:35:01 up 7 days, 4:06, 10 users, load average: 6.85, 6.89, 6.87

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

Regards

Avpx


bear in mind:

Eventually gas boilers will be phased out for heat pumps and solar PV.
there is a certain year quoted for this

There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy
efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme....

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

I'll throw one out there...
Viessmann

My combi at home is a German "Micromat EC" (originally bought based on
"Dr Evil"'s recommendation!) which at the time it was installed the
plumber was impressed with its radial burner box etc, more a thing of
commercial boilers than domestic apparently. It's now around 16 years
old and admittedly I've had to replace the diverter valve a number of
times, the pump once, hot-glue the condensate siphon, replace a number
of dead o-rings on numerous occasions and so-on but on the whole it's
been superb, built in weather compensation with user customisable
temp/flow ramp, ideal for the UFH. Certainly never had to get an
engineer to do any repairs; so having looked at what's around Viessmann
appeared to be the closest thing in terms of "quality" so that would be
my next replacement rather than the go-to WB or Valliant.
Worth checking out as an alternative.

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

It might be the step up spark transformer that has failed rather than
the main PCB. Check to see if the primary coil has gone open circuit. I
probably wouldn't do an expensive control board swap if the thing is
already on its last legs for mechanical or corrosion reasons.

Disturbing things to make repairs tends to cause anything else that is
about to go wrong to wait about a fortnight and then fail.
OTOH you could be lucky and get another 5 years out of it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

I've been pretty pleased with my Viessmann system boiler. Going by the
problems most of my friends have with their boilers, it's been very good.
And it's never been 'serviced'. Saving me over £1000 in the time I've had
it.

--
*PMS jokes aren't funny; period.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/09/2020 14:11, No Name wrote:
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK -
IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

Regards

Avpx


bear in mind:

Eventually gas boilers will be phased out for heat pumps and solar PV.
there is a certain year quoted for this

There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy
efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme....



Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently....

S.

On 2020-09-30 12:41:40 +0000, The Nomad said:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

We are in the same position - old Vaillant conked out. I have a repair
guy coming later today and he has parts and I will ask for an opinion
on whether it's better to replace it. He is an authorised Ideal
installer but can work on anything.

I had another firm in the morning to quote, which they are doing.

On makes, the consensus I reckon is that Vaillant is the best - better
build than Worcester according to this morning's chap, and easy to work
on. Which? also scores Vaillant the highest.

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

In article 2020093014594972288-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 12:41:40 +0000, The Nomad said:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

We are in the same position - old Vaillant conked out. I have a repair
guy coming later today and he has parts and I will ask for an opinion
on whether it's better to replace it. He is an authorised Ideal
installer but can work on anything.

I had another firm in the morning to quote, which they are doing.

On makes, the consensus I reckon is that Vaillant is the best - better
build than Worcester according to this morning's chap, and easy to work
on. Which? also scores Vaillant the highest.

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are
likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The
devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years
against 20 for a better make.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/09/2020 14:11, No Name wrote:

There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy
efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme....


There was a bit on the radio this afternoon warning people not to get
scammed by the salesman who offer to do the grant paperwork on your
behalf. The advice was also to not to buy from anyone who cold calls.

Apparently there are hundreds of companies recently registered with
Green Home or similar in their company name just waiting to take peoples
money with overpriced work.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 2020-09-30 14:41:17 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said:

I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are
likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The
devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years
against 20 for a better make.

I don't think there's much doubt about Vaillant. But other brands have
upped their game so there isn't that much between them in reliability
at least.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:15:54 +0100, John Smith wrote:

On 2020-09-30 14:41:17 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said:

I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are
likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The
devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years
against 20 for a better make.

Several installers contacted (W-B, V & V) - also asking around as to who
has had stuff done, by whom and how good/bad it was

I don't think there's much doubt about Vaillant. But other brands have
upped their game so there isn't that much between them in reliability at
least.

Is that in a good way or not Vaillant?

Regards

Avpx

--
'Pardon me for living, I'm sure.' NO-ONE GETS PARDONED FOR LIVING.
(Mort)
16:30:01 up 7 days, 7:01, 10 users, load average: 5.45, 5.87, 5.92

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

Could be the igniter electrode, they do wear away after a few years.

On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good
flow of hot water.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:35:07 +0100, Mike Clarke
wrote:

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark,
fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the
igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

Could be the igniter electrode, they do wear away after a few years.

Nope - DAMHIK-IJD ok

(also no ticking sound when trying to light)

Avpx

--
- BIG FIDO? - "Yes?" - HEEL.
(Men at Arms)
16:35:01 up 7 days, 7:06, 10 users, load average: 5.21, 5.58, 5.80

No Name wrote:




Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently....

They look interesting. Thanks. (Dont need a new boiler at present but
always nice to see innovation that doesnt add complication).

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:38:13 +0100, Mike Clarke wrote:

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot
water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good
flow of hot water.

24 kW will give you 10 l/min with a 35 C temprise (15 to 50 C).

Yer average electic shower can only manage about 4 l/min with the
same temp rise.

I guess it depends on what you call a "good flow of hot water". Best
shower I've ever had was a small waterfall down onto a beach in
Jamaica. That was probably closer to 60 l/min, wasn't hot though but
very pleasant all the same.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 16:38:19 UTC+1, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good
flow of hot water.

in which case a 24kW combi has no hope of modulating down far enough.


NT

On 2020-09-30 15:38:13 +0000, Mike Clarke said:

On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good
flow of hot water.

I'm talking about a system boiler heating an unvented cylinder. In our
three story house the pressure is good enough for a very good shower on
the top floor.

Anyway just had the engineer in and he couldn't fix our old Vaillant.
He didn't have both PCBs on the van but the minimum cost to fix would
be about £300-£350 assuming one board would fix it and if both boards
are implicated that's about £500.

So I've asked him for quotes on a new 28kw (his suggestion) Vaillant
and Ideal, which he says he can fit on Friday or Monday.

At least i didn't have to pay him tonight as no fix no fee.

On 30/09/2020 19:36, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 15:38:13 +0000, Mike Clarke said:

On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a
good flow of hot water.

I'm talking about a system boiler heating an unvented cylinder. In our
three story house the pressure is good enough for a very good shower on
the top floor.

Anyway just had the engineer in and he couldn't fix our old Vaillant. He
didn't have both PCBs on the van but the minimum cost to fix would be
about £300-£350 assuming one board would fix it and if both boards are
implicated that's about £500.

So I've asked him for quotes on a new 28kw (his suggestion) Vaillant and
Ideal, which he says he can fit on Friday or Monday.

At least i didn't have to pay him tonight as no fix no fee.

Might be worth giving Geoff at CET ltd a call to see if he has
re-manufactured PCBs for the boiler (basically he does PCB exchange -
you buy recon ones, and send him the dead ones - at a fraction of the
price from the OEM)

https://www.cetltd.com/




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 12:41:40 +0000, The Nomad said:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK -
IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

We are in the same position - old Vaillant conked out. I have a repair
guy coming later today and he has parts and I will ask for an opinion on
whether it's better to replace it. He is an authorised Ideal installer
but can work on anything.

I had another firm in the morning to quote, which they are doing.

On makes, the consensus I reckon is that Vaillant is the best - better
build than Worcester according to this morning's chap, and easy to work
on. Which? also scores Vaillant the highest.

Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water
cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK.

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW
models often go do to around 6kW. If you also go for split temperature
operation[1] and weather compensation[2] it can make for a very quiet
and comfortable setup, with just the right amount of heat when you need
it, little overshoot, and no clanking and clicking in the heating system
most of the time.

[1] Allows the boiler to run much lower flow temps to the rads for
higher condensing efficiency, and less system noise.

[2] Uses an outside temperature sensor to influence flow temperature
(often combined with a preset heatloss curve set for the building), so
it runs cooler when the weather is mild, and hotter when it gets colder.

(it also means the thermostat behaves more like many people seem to
expect - turn it up higher and the system will actually heat up faster!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/09/2020 18:16, Tim+ wrote:
No Name wrote:




Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently....

They look interesting. Thanks. (Dont need a new boiler at present but
always nice to see innovation that doesnt add complication).

Tim



Which have just done a boiler brand comparison, based on reviews from
experts. They rated Vaillant and Bosch at the top, and Intergas were
right down the list. I don't really understand why.

On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet
should tell you the size of supply pipe needed.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/09/2020 20:35, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past.
A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

At that age it owes you nothing, so probably worth going for a new
system since it will cost lest to run as well.

(whether it will also last 20 years is another matter!)

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our
gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a
problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi
boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify
22mm.

A new 24kW boiler will have the same maximum gas rate (or possibly
slightly lower[1]) than an old 24kW boiler. So in that sense - no it
does not need upgrading if its already adequate.

(also worth noting that even very high consumption boilers often sitill
have 15mm inlets - the anticipation that the end user will likely want
the "show work" pipes in an out to be as unobtrusive as possible).

However to complication matters there are lots of "rule of thunb"
fitters out there that don't actually do the sums and just insist that
it needs a 22mm feed whether it does or not. Since that way they are
covered, and very few end users would question it.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

Do a quick set of sums to check the actual state of play:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_pipe_sizing

Then at least of the fitter wants to do otherwise you can argue with
some data to back it up.

[1] If the 24kW on the old boiler was its specified output power, then
it will have needed to consume gas a bit quicker than a modern 24kW
output power boiler. (many would quote gas input power though, and just
deliver a bit less)

You can convert between units like this:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_units


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/09/2020 21:20, charles wrote:
In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet
should tell you the size of supply pipe needed.

It will tell you the size of the inlet, but can't realistically tell you
exactly what you need unless it also knows the length of pipe, the
configuration, and the demands of other gas using appliances.

(basically it would need to reproduce large swathes of BS 6891
"Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in
domestic premises (2nd family gas) €” Specification" to give an
adequately complete answer[1]

(and 75kW is beyond the maximum output of a domestic U6 meter - so



[1] Although in our case, someone had already done that:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_pipe_sizing

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 at 14:43:47 UTC+1, No Name wrote:

Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.....

S.

Agree. My Viessmann is 12 years old now. Only had one major problem with it - when it was only a few years old the igniter unit failed and took the PCB with it A fixed-price repair from Viessmann direct, which included a service (the only service it's ever had!), and it's been fine ever since.

If I had to replace it now, it would definitely be with an Intergas.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/09/2020 21:20, charles wrote:
In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet
should tell you the size of supply pipe needed.

It will tell you the size of the inlet, but can't realistically tell you
exactly what you need unless it also knows the length of pipe, the
configuration, and the demands of other gas using appliances.

(basically it would need to reproduce large swathes of BS 6891
"Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in
domestic premises (2nd family gas) ˜ Specification" to give an
adequately complete answer[1]

(and 75kW is beyond the maximum output of a domestic U6 meter - so


when we bought this house it had no gas supply. It had once, but all pipes
and the meter had been removed. The new supply and was fitted for a "Boiler
exchange" scheme run by British gas.. I assume they knew what they were
doing.
--

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 01/10/2020 08:40, David wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 at 14:43:47 UTC+1, No Name wrote:

Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently....

S.

Agree. My Viessmann is 12 years old now. Only had one major problem with it - when it was only a few years old the igniter unit failed and took the PCB with it A fixed-price repair from Viessmann direct, which included a service (the only service it's ever had!), and it's been fine ever since.

If I had to replace it now, it would definitely be with an Intergas.


While Intergas seems to be worth considering I wasn't able to find clear
evidence earlier this year that they were more reliable than other
premium brands. My Dutch is non-existent but even Consumerboten seemed
not to give them a clear lead over Vaillant for combis.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 30/09/2020 14:11, No Name wrote:
bear in mind:

Eventually gas boilers will be phased out for heat pumps and solar PV.
there is a certain year quoted for this

ROFLMAO!


There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy
efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme....


--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

In article 202009301615549658-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 14:41:17 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said:

I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are
likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The
devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years
against 20 for a better make.

I don't think there's much doubt about Vaillant. But other brands have
upped their game so there isn't that much between them in reliability
at least.

It's something we hear regularly. Only time will tell.

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David wrote:
gree. My Viessmann is 12 years old now. Only had one major problem
with it - when it was only a few years old the igniter unit failed and
took the PCB with it A fixed-price repair from Viessmann direct,
which included a service (the only service it's ever had!), and it's
been fine ever since.

My Viessmann has all the peripherals supplied via individual fuses on the
PCB. I found that out with its only failure. A hose split, and water took
out the gas supply valve. And the fuse on the PCB, which is a soldered in
type. Cost pennies for me to replace that fuse.
The average repair man would have fitted a new PCB at a cost of many
hundreds.

--
*My wife and I had words. But I didn't get to use mine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/10/2020 08:58, charles wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/09/2020 21:20, charles wrote:
In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet
should tell you the size of supply pipe needed.

It will tell you the size of the inlet, but can't realistically tell you
exactly what you need unless it also knows the length of pipe, the
configuration, and the demands of other gas using appliances.

(basically it would need to reproduce large swathes of BS 6891
"Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in
domestic premises (2nd family gas) ˜ Specification" to give an
adequately complete answer[1]

(and 75kW is beyond the maximum output of a domestic U6 meter - so


when we bought this house it had no gas supply. It had once, but all pipes
and the meter had been removed. The new supply and was fitted for a "Boiler
exchange" scheme run by British gas.. I assume they knew what they were
doing.

They probably fitted a "bigger" meter - i.e. one more typically used in
small commercial applications.

The normal U6 can do up to about 65kW or 6 m^3/hour. The next one up is
a U16 which will do 173kW or getting on for 16m^3/hour.

What model boiler is it out of interest?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

Regards

Avpx


Do you have a diagnostic chart for the boiler (sometimes found inside
the casing and/or in the installation manual)? There may also be some
LEDs to indicate how far it has got in its startup sequence.

There is probably a pressure switch which operates when the fan is
running fast enough to generate the required pressure. The pressure
switch needs to operate before the igniter will attempt to work. So, if
there's no signal from the pressure switch, it may be due to:
* fan not running fast enough
* pressure switch failure
* disconnected or broken rubber pressure hose(s)
to name but a few.

[I've experienced all of them at various times on my Baxi Solo boiler -
which I finally replaced just after its 30th birthday earlier this year.]

If you do decide that it's new boiler time, both Worcester Bosch and
Vaillant are pretty good. I had a new WB boiler fitted in my holiday
flat a couple of years ago and have been very pleased with it. And I
recently had a Vaillant boiler fitted in my main home, to replace the
old Baxi. That seems pretty good, too - AND came with a 10-year
warranty. One consideration for me was that space constraints meant that
the boiler needed to have its flue coming straight of the back rather
coming out of the top with an elbow to go out through the wall. WB flues
all come out of the top, whereas many Vaillant boilers can have either
top or rear flues.

--
Cheers,
Roger

On 30/09/2020 14:43, No Name wrote:


Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently....

S.


expensive and not well known though ... asked 3 boiler engineers (BG and
SSE),never worked on one, never seen one.

On 30/09/2020 20:35, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past.
A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our
gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a
problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi
boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify
22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...





My neighbour has exactly this issue, boiler been running fine for
several years, board failed ..... British Gas came out and checked gas
pressure ... and now won't fix boiler unless he replaces 15mm supply
pipe with 22mm T His remonstrations that they have serviced it every
year and been happy are irrelevant.
He has just replaced the 22m pipe, and they have now replaced boards and
removed the 'do not use' sign.
Surprisingly they were happy he had changed gas pipe and made new
connections at meter & boiler.

rick wrote:
On 30/09/2020 14:43, No Name wrote:


Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple
engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently....

S.


expensive and not well known though ... asked 3 boiler engineers (BG and
SSE),never worked on one, never seen one.


The first may well be a statement of fact. The fact that theyve never seen
or worked on one could be down to their reliability! ;-). Either way, it
doesnt tell you much.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 1 Oct 2020 at 18:01:13 BST, "Roger Mills" wrote:

On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk,

I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan
runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ...

Do I:

a) buy a new PCB and hope or

b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD
- OK)

if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway
Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ???

Your thoughts on makes is welcomed

Regards

Avpx


Do you have a diagnostic chart for the boiler (sometimes found inside
the casing and/or in the installation manual)? There may also be some
LEDs to indicate how far it has got in its startup sequence.

There is probably a pressure switch which operates when the fan is
running fast enough to generate the required pressure. The pressure
switch needs to operate before the igniter will attempt to work. So, if
there's no signal from the pressure switch, it may be due to:
* fan not running fast enough
* pressure switch failure
* disconnected or broken rubber pressure hose(s)
to name but a few.

[I've experienced all of them at various times on my Baxi Solo boiler -
which I finally replaced just after its 30th birthday earlier this year.]

If you do decide that it's new boiler time, both Worcester Bosch and
Vaillant are pretty good. I had a new WB boiler fitted in my holiday
flat a couple of years ago and have been very pleased with it. And I
recently had a Vaillant boiler fitted in my main home, to replace the
old Baxi. That seems pretty good, too - AND came with a 10-year
warranty. One consideration for me was that space constraints meant that
the boiler needed to have its flue coming straight of the back rather
coming out of the top with an elbow to go out through the wall. WB flues
all come out of the top,

Fortunately that is not true of the WB oil boiler I had fitted a couple of
years ago.


whereas many Vaillant boilers can have either
top or rear flues.


--
Roger Hayter

On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 20:35:29 UTC+1, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

maybe you could find a similar used one & swap it, but probably you won't


One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

In most cases a 24kW boiler is not permitted to run on 15mm now, current regs are more demanding re pressure drop. Worcester Bosch do a pdf:
Technical Training Bulletin: Natural Gas (G20) Supply Pipe Sizing.
that explains how to calculate what's required.


NT

On 02/10/2020 23:20:46, wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 20:35:29 UTC+1, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:

With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A
boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant
24kW models often go do to around 6kW.

John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I
think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker.

maybe you could find a similar used one & swap it, but probably you won't


One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work -
our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to
be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a
combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only
specify 22mm.

Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option...

In most cases a 24kW boiler is not permitted to run on 15mm now, current regs are more demanding re pressure drop. Worcester Bosch do a pdf:
Technical Training Bulletin: Natural Gas (G20) Supply Pipe Sizing.
that explains how to calculate what's required.

Do you have a link?

On 2020-10-02 22:20:46 +0000, said:

In most cases a 24kW boiler is not permitted to run on 15mm now,
current regs are more demanding re pressure drop. Worcester Bosch do a
pdf:
Technical Training Bulletin: Natural Gas (G20) Supply Pipe Sizing.
that explains how to calculate what's required.

We had a new Vaillant condensing system boiler installed yesterday and
the installer played it safe and put in a 18kw unit as he said the 15mm
gas pipe run was probably quite long and it is about 4 metres in a
straight line from the meter without taking into account the true path
under the hallway/kitchen.. The boiler so far is working fine and we
have hot water and heating after 10 days without and it's comfortably
driving 15 rads in about the same time as the old 24kw unit.

Only hitch was a bleed hole rounded off in one old rad so that's been
taken out of the system for now.