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Boilers
All assembled knowledgeable folk,
I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed Regards Avpx -- Too many people want to *have written*. (alt.fan.pratchett) 13:35:01 up 7 days, 4:06, 10 users, load average: 6.85, 6.89, 6.87 |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed Regards Avpx bear in mind: Eventually gas boilers will be phased out for heat pumps and solar PV. there is a certain year quoted for this There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme.... |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed I'll throw one out there... Viessmann My combi at home is a German "Micromat EC" (originally bought based on "Dr Evil"'s recommendation!) which at the time it was installed the plumber was impressed with its radial burner box etc, more a thing of commercial boilers than domestic apparently. It's now around 16 years old and admittedly I've had to replace the diverter valve a number of times, the pump once, hot-glue the condensate siphon, replace a number of dead o-rings on numerous occasions and so-on but on the whole it's been superb, built in weather compensation with user customisable temp/flow ramp, ideal for the UFH. Certainly never had to get an engineer to do any repairs; so having looked at what's around Viessmann appeared to be the closest thing in terms of "quality" so that would be my next replacement rather than the go-to WB or Valliant. Worth checking out as an alternative. |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... It might be the step up spark transformer that has failed rather than the main PCB. Check to see if the primary coil has gone open circuit. I probably wouldn't do an expensive control board swap if the thing is already on its last legs for mechanical or corrosion reasons. Disturbing things to make repairs tends to cause anything else that is about to go wrong to wait about a fortnight and then fail. OTOH you could be lucky and get another 5 years out of it. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Boilers
In article ,
The Nomad wrote: All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed I've been pretty pleased with my Viessmann system boiler. Going by the problems most of my friends have with their boilers, it's been very good. And it's never been 'serviced'. Saving me over £1000 in the time I've had it. -- *PMS jokes aren't funny; period.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 14:11, No Name wrote:
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote: All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed Regards Avpx bear in mind: Eventually gas boilers will be phased out for heat pumps and solar PV. there is a certain year quoted for this There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme.... Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.... S. |
Boilers
On 2020-09-30 12:41:40 +0000, The Nomad said:
a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? We are in the same position - old Vaillant conked out. I have a repair guy coming later today and he has parts and I will ask for an opinion on whether it's better to replace it. He is an authorised Ideal installer but can work on anything. I had another firm in the morning to quote, which they are doing. On makes, the consensus I reckon is that Vaillant is the best - better build than Worcester according to this morning's chap, and easy to work on. Which? also scores Vaillant the highest. Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. |
Boilers
In article 2020093014594972288-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote: On 2020-09-30 12:41:40 +0000, The Nomad said: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? We are in the same position - old Vaillant conked out. I have a repair guy coming later today and he has parts and I will ask for an opinion on whether it's better to replace it. He is an authorised Ideal installer but can work on anything. I had another firm in the morning to quote, which they are doing. On makes, the consensus I reckon is that Vaillant is the best - better build than Worcester according to this morning's chap, and easy to work on. Which? also scores Vaillant the highest. Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years against 20 for a better make. -- *Prepositions are not words to end sentences with * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 14:11, No Name wrote:
There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme.... There was a bit on the radio this afternoon warning people not to get scammed by the salesman who offer to do the grant paperwork on your behalf. The advice was also to not to buy from anyone who cold calls. Apparently there are hundreds of companies recently registered with Green Home or similar in their company name just waiting to take peoples money with overpriced work. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Boilers
On 2020-09-30 14:41:17 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said:
I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years against 20 for a better make. I don't think there's much doubt about Vaillant. But other brands have upped their game so there isn't that much between them in reliability at least. |
Boilers
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:15:54 +0100, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 14:41:17 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said: I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years against 20 for a better make. Several installers contacted (W-B, V & V) - also asking around as to who has had stuff done, by whom and how good/bad it was I don't think there's much doubt about Vaillant. But other brands have upped their game so there isn't that much between them in reliability at least. Is that in a good way or not Vaillant? Regards Avpx -- 'Pardon me for living, I'm sure.' NO-ONE GETS PARDONED FOR LIVING. (Mort) 16:30:01 up 7 days, 7:01, 10 users, load average: 5.45, 5.87, 5.92 |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or Could be the igniter electrode, they do wear away after a few years. |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:
Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good flow of hot water. |
Boilers
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:35:07 +0100, Mike Clarke
wrote: On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote: All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or Could be the igniter electrode, they do wear away after a few years. Nope - DAMHIK-IJD ok (also no ticking sound when trying to light) Avpx -- - BIG FIDO? - "Yes?" - HEEL. (Men at Arms) 16:35:01 up 7 days, 7:06, 10 users, load average: 5.21, 5.58, 5.80 |
Boilers
No Name wrote:
Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.... They look interesting. Thanks. (Dont need a new boiler at present but always nice to see innovation that doesnt add complication). Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Boilers
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:38:13 +0100, Mike Clarke wrote:
Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good flow of hot water. 24 kW will give you 10 l/min with a 35 C temprise (15 to 50 C). Yer average electic shower can only manage about 4 l/min with the same temp rise. I guess it depends on what you call a "good flow of hot water". Best shower I've ever had was a small waterfall down onto a beach in Jamaica. That was probably closer to 60 l/min, wasn't hot though but very pleasant all the same. -- Cheers Dave. |
Boilers
On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 16:38:19 UTC+1, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote: Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good flow of hot water. in which case a 24kW combi has no hope of modulating down far enough. NT |
Boilers
On 2020-09-30 15:38:13 +0000, Mike Clarke said:
On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote: Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good flow of hot water. I'm talking about a system boiler heating an unvented cylinder. In our three story house the pressure is good enough for a very good shower on the top floor. Anyway just had the engineer in and he couldn't fix our old Vaillant. He didn't have both PCBs on the van but the minimum cost to fix would be about £300-£350 assuming one board would fix it and if both boards are implicated that's about £500. So I've asked him for quotes on a new 28kw (his suggestion) Vaillant and Ideal, which he says he can fit on Friday or Monday. At least i didn't have to pay him tonight as no fix no fee. |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 19:36, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 15:38:13 +0000, Mike Clarke said: On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote: Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. Unless it supplies a shower and it's a combi boiler and you want a good flow of hot water. I'm talking about a system boiler heating an unvented cylinder. In our three story house the pressure is good enough for a very good shower on the top floor. Anyway just had the engineer in and he couldn't fix our old Vaillant. He didn't have both PCBs on the van but the minimum cost to fix would be about £300-£350 assuming one board would fix it and if both boards are implicated that's about £500. So I've asked him for quotes on a new 28kw (his suggestion) Vaillant and Ideal, which he says he can fit on Friday or Monday. At least i didn't have to pay him tonight as no fix no fee. Might be worth giving Geoff at CET ltd a call to see if he has re-manufactured PCBs for the boiler (basically he does PCB exchange - you buy recon ones, and send him the dead ones - at a fraction of the price from the OEM) https://www.cetltd.com/ -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 14:59, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 12:41:40 +0000, The Nomad said: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? We are in the same position - old Vaillant conked out. I have a repair guy coming later today and he has parts and I will ask for an opinion on whether it's better to replace it. He is an authorised Ideal installer but can work on anything. I had another firm in the morning to quote, which they are doing. On makes, the consensus I reckon is that Vaillant is the best - better build than Worcester according to this morning's chap, and easy to work on. Which? also scores Vaillant the highest. Don't install one that is overated - our house has 16 rads/hot water cylinder but a 24kw boiler is OK. With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. If you also go for split temperature operation[1] and weather compensation[2] it can make for a very quiet and comfortable setup, with just the right amount of heat when you need it, little overshoot, and no clanking and clicking in the heating system most of the time. [1] Allows the boiler to run much lower flow temps to the rads for higher condensing efficiency, and less system noise. [2] Uses an outside temperature sensor to influence flow temperature (often combined with a preset heatloss curve set for the building), so it runs cooler when the weather is mild, and hotter when it gets colder. (it also means the thermostat behaves more like many people seem to expect - turn it up higher and the system will actually heat up faster!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 18:16, Tim+ wrote:
No Name wrote: Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.... They look interesting. Thanks. (Dont need a new boiler at present but always nice to see innovation that doesnt add complication). Tim Which have just done a boiler brand comparison, based on reviews from experts. They rated Vaillant and Bosch at the top, and Intergas were right down the list. I don't really understand why. |
Boilers
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said:
With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... |
Boilers
In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote: On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet should tell you the size of supply pipe needed. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 20:35, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. At that age it owes you nothing, so probably worth going for a new system since it will cost lest to run as well. (whether it will also last 20 years is another matter!) One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. A new 24kW boiler will have the same maximum gas rate (or possibly slightly lower[1]) than an old 24kW boiler. So in that sense - no it does not need upgrading if its already adequate. (also worth noting that even very high consumption boilers often sitill have 15mm inlets - the anticipation that the end user will likely want the "show work" pipes in an out to be as unobtrusive as possible). However to complication matters there are lots of "rule of thunb" fitters out there that don't actually do the sums and just insist that it needs a 22mm feed whether it does or not. Since that way they are covered, and very few end users would question it. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... Do a quick set of sums to check the actual state of play: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_pipe_sizing Then at least of the fitter wants to do otherwise you can argue with some data to back it up. [1] If the 24kW on the old boiler was its specified output power, then it will have needed to consume gas a bit quicker than a modern 24kW output power boiler. (many would quote gas input power though, and just deliver a bit less) You can convert between units like this: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_units -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 21:20, charles wrote:
In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith wrote: On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet should tell you the size of supply pipe needed. It will tell you the size of the inlet, but can't realistically tell you exactly what you need unless it also knows the length of pipe, the configuration, and the demands of other gas using appliances. (basically it would need to reproduce large swathes of BS 6891 "Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in domestic premises (2nd family gas) €” Specification" to give an adequately complete answer[1] (and 75kW is beyond the maximum output of a domestic U6 meter - so [1] Although in our case, someone had already done that: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_pipe_sizing -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Boilers
On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 at 14:43:47 UTC+1, No Name wrote:
Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently..... S. Agree. My Viessmann is 12 years old now. Only had one major problem with it - when it was only a few years old the igniter unit failed and took the PCB with it :( A fixed-price repair from Viessmann direct, which included a service (the only service it's ever had!), and it's been fine ever since. If I had to replace it now, it would definitely be with an Intergas. |
Boilers
In article ,
John Rumm wrote: On 30/09/2020 21:20, charles wrote: In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith wrote: On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet should tell you the size of supply pipe needed. It will tell you the size of the inlet, but can't realistically tell you exactly what you need unless it also knows the length of pipe, the configuration, and the demands of other gas using appliances. (basically it would need to reproduce large swathes of BS 6891 "Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in domestic premises (2nd family gas) ˜ Specification" to give an adequately complete answer[1] (and 75kW is beyond the maximum output of a domestic U6 meter - so when we bought this house it had no gas supply. It had once, but all pipes and the meter had been removed. The new supply and was fitted for a "Boiler exchange" scheme run by British gas.. I assume they knew what they were doing. -- -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
Boilers
On 01/10/2020 08:40, David wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 at 14:43:47 UTC+1, No Name wrote: Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.... S. Agree. My Viessmann is 12 years old now. Only had one major problem with it - when it was only a few years old the igniter unit failed and took the PCB with it :( A fixed-price repair from Viessmann direct, which included a service (the only service it's ever had!), and it's been fine ever since. If I had to replace it now, it would definitely be with an Intergas. While Intergas seems to be worth considering I wasn't able to find clear evidence earlier this year that they were more reliable than other premium brands. My Dutch is non-existent but even Consumerboten seemed not to give them a clear lead over Vaillant for combis. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 14:11, No Name wrote:
bear in mind: Eventually gas boilers will be phased out for heat pumps and solar PV. there is a certain year quoted for this ROFLMAO! There might be an opportunity to get some cheap insulation/energy efficiency work done on your house as part of Rishi's Grant scheme.... -- "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them." |
Boilers
In article 202009301615549658-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith wrote: On 2020-09-30 14:41:17 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) said: I'd caution against taking just the advice of an installer. They are likely to want the most profit and ease of supply and installation. The devil you know... They ain't going to be worried if it lasts 10 years against 20 for a better make. I don't think there's much doubt about Vaillant. But other brands have upped their game so there isn't that much between them in reliability at least. It's something we hear regularly. Only time will tell. -- *The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Boilers
In article ,
David wrote: gree. My Viessmann is 12 years old now. Only had one major problem with it - when it was only a few years old the igniter unit failed and took the PCB with it :( A fixed-price repair from Viessmann direct, which included a service (the only service it's ever had!), and it's been fine ever since. My Viessmann has all the peripherals supplied via individual fuses on the PCB. I found that out with its only failure. A hose split, and water took out the gas supply valve. And the fuse on the PCB, which is a soldered in type. Cost pennies for me to replace that fuse. The average repair man would have fitted a new PCB at a cost of many hundreds. -- *My wife and I had words. But I didn't get to use mine. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Boilers
On 01/10/2020 08:58, charles wrote:
In article , John Rumm wrote: On 30/09/2020 21:20, charles wrote: In article 2020093020352434361-nospam@nospamcom, John Smith wrote: On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... we have a 75kW boiler with a 22mm supply. The boiler specification sheet should tell you the size of supply pipe needed. It will tell you the size of the inlet, but can't realistically tell you exactly what you need unless it also knows the length of pipe, the configuration, and the demands of other gas using appliances. (basically it would need to reproduce large swathes of BS 6891 "Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in domestic premises (2nd family gas) ˜ Specification" to give an adequately complete answer[1] (and 75kW is beyond the maximum output of a domestic U6 meter - so when we bought this house it had no gas supply. It had once, but all pipes and the meter had been removed. The new supply and was fitted for a "Boiler exchange" scheme run by British gas.. I assume they knew what they were doing. They probably fitted a "bigger" meter - i.e. one more typically used in small commercial applications. The normal U6 can do up to about 65kW or 6 m^3/hour. The next one up is a U16 which will do 173kW or getting on for 16m^3/hour. What model boiler is it out of interest? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote:
All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed Regards Avpx Do you have a diagnostic chart for the boiler (sometimes found inside the casing and/or in the installation manual)? There may also be some LEDs to indicate how far it has got in its startup sequence. There is probably a pressure switch which operates when the fan is running fast enough to generate the required pressure. The pressure switch needs to operate before the igniter will attempt to work. So, if there's no signal from the pressure switch, it may be due to: * fan not running fast enough * pressure switch failure * disconnected or broken rubber pressure hose(s) to name but a few. [I've experienced all of them at various times on my Baxi Solo boiler - which I finally replaced just after its 30th birthday earlier this year.] If you do decide that it's new boiler time, both Worcester Bosch and Vaillant are pretty good. I had a new WB boiler fitted in my holiday flat a couple of years ago and have been very pleased with it. And I recently had a Vaillant boiler fitted in my main home, to replace the old Baxi. That seems pretty good, too - AND came with a 10-year warranty. One consideration for me was that space constraints meant that the boiler needed to have its flue coming straight of the back rather coming out of the top with an elbow to go out through the wall. WB flues all come out of the top, whereas many Vaillant boilers can have either top or rear flues. -- Cheers, Roger |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 14:43, No Name wrote:
Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.... S. expensive and not well known though ... asked 3 boiler engineers (BG and SSE),never worked on one, never seen one. |
Boilers
On 30/09/2020 20:35, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... My neighbour has exactly this issue, boiler been running fine for several years, board failed ..... British Gas came out and checked gas pressure ... and now won't fix boiler unless he replaces 15mm supply pipe with 22mm T His remonstrations that they have serviced it every year and been happy are irrelevant. He has just replaced the 22m pipe, and they have now replaced boards and removed the 'do not use' sign. Surprisingly they were happy he had changed gas pipe and made new connections at meter & boiler. |
Boilers
rick wrote:
On 30/09/2020 14:43, No Name wrote: Also might be worth looking at Intergas boilers... exceptionally simple engineering with only four easy to replace parts to go wrong apparently.... S. expensive and not well known though ... asked 3 boiler engineers (BG and SSE),never worked on one, never seen one. The first may well be a statement of fact. The fact that theyve never seen or worked on one could be down to their reliability! ;-). Either way, it doesnt tell you much. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
Boilers
On 1 Oct 2020 at 18:01:13 BST, "Roger Mills" wrote:
On 30/09/2020 13:41, The Nomad wrote: All assembled knowledgeable folk, I fear the time has come, the ravenheat boiler has expired, no spark, fan runs etc. etc. but not spark, not even the clicking from the igniter ... Do I: a) buy a new PCB and hope or b) Get a new boiler - this one is knackered, rusty internally (DAHIK - IJD - OK) if b) as I suspect it will have to happen in the next short while anyway Worcerster-Bosh, Vallaint or ??? Your thoughts on makes is welcomed Regards Avpx Do you have a diagnostic chart for the boiler (sometimes found inside the casing and/or in the installation manual)? There may also be some LEDs to indicate how far it has got in its startup sequence. There is probably a pressure switch which operates when the fan is running fast enough to generate the required pressure. The pressure switch needs to operate before the igniter will attempt to work. So, if there's no signal from the pressure switch, it may be due to: * fan not running fast enough * pressure switch failure * disconnected or broken rubber pressure hose(s) to name but a few. [I've experienced all of them at various times on my Baxi Solo boiler - which I finally replaced just after its 30th birthday earlier this year.] If you do decide that it's new boiler time, both Worcester Bosch and Vaillant are pretty good. I had a new WB boiler fitted in my holiday flat a couple of years ago and have been very pleased with it. And I recently had a Vaillant boiler fitted in my main home, to replace the old Baxi. That seems pretty good, too - AND came with a 10-year warranty. One consideration for me was that space constraints meant that the boiler needed to have its flue coming straight of the back rather coming out of the top with an elbow to go out through the wall. WB flues all come out of the top, Fortunately that is not true of the WB oil boiler I had fitted a couple of years ago. whereas many Vaillant boilers can have either top or rear flues. -- Roger Hayter |
Boilers
On Wednesday, 30 September 2020 20:35:29 UTC+1, John Smith wrote:
On 2020-09-30 18:58:53 +0000, John Rumm said: With modern modulating boilers that is less of a problem in the past. A boiler with a wide modulation range is also desirable. The Vaillant 24kW models often go do to around 6kW. John, thanks for your suggesting about the PCBs but at 20 years old I think it's time to replace the whole thing and also it will be quicker. maybe you could find a similar used one & swap it, but probably you won't One possible problem regarding rating and the way new boilers work - our gas supply pipe to the current boiler is 15mm - is this likely to be a problem for a condensing system boiler - I know it would be for a combi boiler. Maybe there is a ceiling on rating or some makers only specify 22mm. Digging up the kitchen floor is not a great option... In most cases a 24kW boiler is not permitted to run on 15mm now, current regs are more demanding re pressure drop. Worcester Bosch do a pdf: Technical Training Bulletin: Natural Gas (G20) Supply Pipe Sizing. that explains how to calculate what's required. NT |
Boilers
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Boilers
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