Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...
Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

Mary


==============
I thought it was used for the old-fashioned 'wiped joints' but have a look
at this if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/236-14431

Cic.

"Cicero" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...
Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

Mary


==============
I thought it was used for the old-fashioned 'wiped joints'

It was - for preventing oxidation on newly cleaned lead. But it's been
superseded by flux.

Someone I know of has said that he must have tallow for some leadwork and
I've been asked for some - I use it to make historical candles. I said that
if he really feels that he needs it I'm sure he could buy some from a
plublers' merchants but he's said he can't, which is why I asked here.

I know a professional leadworker who doesn't even use flux!

but have a look
at this if you haven't already seen it:

Thanks, I did, it proves that you can still get it.

Mary

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/236-14431

Cic.

In article , Mary
Fisher writes
Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

It's really just lard, which you can get from a local grocer.

If you're a vegetarian, you can get a veggie version.

--
Frank Erskine

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:35:35 +0100, sylv wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

It should be easy enough to make with beef fat, melted, filtered and
then simmered in water. Left to set the tallow is the crust on the
top.

Nah SWMBO is veggie, easier to order from S/fix Part #17448


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In message , Mary
Fisher writes
Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

Not the faintest idea..


However the Ironbridge gorge museum might be able to help you. They go
out of their way to point you in the right direction if they can't help
directly
--
geoff

In message , Mary
Fisher writes
Does ayone still use it for lead work?

When I did a stained glass course a few years ago we used it.

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

stained glass suppliers have it.
--
Chris French, Leeds

Tallow is a higher melting point fat than lard or grease, produced from
any animal. It can also come from some vegetables eg cocao butter.

Flux used in soldering is a grease that contains something in the nature
of baking powder -I'm not sure what. I presume it dissolves the oxides
from lead and copper. I know it causes iron and steel to rust at
ordinary temperatures.

Am I right in presuming you want the tallow to mix with whiting as a bed
for the glass in leaded lights? Modern acrylic/mastics seem to work
quite well. I've no idea how well they stand the test of time. (Easily
dispensed though.)

While tallow has been used for centuries, might petroleum waxes serve as
well? If so high melting point greases from a motor factor would supply
your needs too.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

Only for wiping. It's not an active enough flux for soft soldering,
and it's unnecessary for lead burning (welding really - the usual
fabrication process for roofing)

However it's easily purchased at an _electrical_ wholesaler. It's the
lubricant for thread cutting on conduit.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Someone I know of has said that he must have tallow for some leadwork
and I've been asked for some - I use it to make historical candles. I
said that if he really feels that he needs it I'm sure he could buy some
from a plublers' merchants but he's said he can't, which is why I asked
here.

I certainly got some from a PM a few years ago. Useful to have on the pad
when wiping a lead joint. I needed all the help I could get...

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
I thought it was used for the old-fashioned 'wiped joints'

It was - for preventing oxidation on newly cleaned lead. But it's been
superseded by flux.

I think they serve different purposes. Tallow will *prevent* solder
amalgamating? with lead etc.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...
Does ayone still use it for lead work?

No idea.

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

I use it as a lubricant and I buy it from my local ironmongers. I suspect
you need the sort of ironmongers that has lots of brown card boxes on the
shelves though.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

If you live anywhere near Great Yarmuff, you could try asking at any of
the chip salons in the market place. They all smell remarkably as though
they use tallow to cook the chips. Revolting smell at times........

:-))

--
wanderer at tesco dot net

In message , wanderer
writes
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

If you live anywhere near Great Yarmuff, you could try asking at any of
the chip salons in the market place. They all smell remarkably as though
they use tallow to cook the chips. Revolting smell at times........

It's the 'Yorkshire' smell :-)

Where most chip shops still use Lard for cooking chips. and yes it's a
horrible smell....... :-)
--
Chris French, Leeds

In article ,
wanderer wrote:

If you live anywhere near Great Yarmuff, you could try asking at
any of the chip salons in the market place. They all smell
remarkably as though they use tallow to cook the chips. Revolting
smell at times........

mmm....Chips done the old-fashioned way, in beef fat.

Lovely grub, pure cholesterol. Oh my aching arteries.

--
Tony Williams.

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , wanderer
writes
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, Mary Fisher wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

If you live anywhere near Great Yarmuff, you could try asking at any of
the chip salons in the market place. They all smell remarkably as though
they use tallow to cook the chips. Revolting smell at times........

It's the 'Yorkshire' smell :-)

Where most chip shops still use Lard for cooking chips. and yes it's a
horrible smell....... :-)

But they do taste just so much better :-)

It's one of the things I really miss, living now in the SE.


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
I thought it was used for the old-fashioned 'wiped joints'

It was - for preventing oxidation on newly cleaned lead. But it's been
superseded by flux.

I think they serve different purposes. Tallow will *prevent* solder
amalgamating? with lead etc.


I used to use it when building lead acid batteries many moons ago, it was
used to prevent the molten lead (that was used to 'weld' the plates
together) from adhering to the steelwork of the tooling used to hold the
plates at the correct spacing.

If we were short of tallow we could get away with using the black soot from
the burning of neat acetylene across the steel....

In article ,
RichardS noone@invalid wrote:
Where most chip shops still use Lard for cooking chips. and yes it's a
horrible smell....... :-)

But they do taste just so much better :-)

It's one of the things I really miss, living now in the SE.

Yup. And you can't get a decent deep fried Mars bar.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Someone I know of has said that he must have tallow for some leadwork
and I've been asked for some - I use it to make historical candles. I
said that if he really feels that he needs it I'm sure he could buy some
from a plublers' merchants but he's said he can't, which is why I asked
here.

I certainly got some from a PM a few years ago. Useful to have on the pad
when wiping a lead joint. I needed all the help I could get...

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.



"I certainly got some from a PM a few years ago."

What was Tony Blair doing with tallow?!


Francis

In article ,
FrancisJK wrote:
"I certainly got some from a PM a few years ago."

What was Tony Blair doing with tallow?!

That's very unkind to Prescott.

--
*Eschew obfuscation *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , RichardS
writes
"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , wanderer
writes

If you live anywhere near Great Yarmuff, you could try asking at any of
the chip salons in the market place. They all smell remarkably as though
they use tallow to cook the chips. Revolting smell at times........

It's the 'Yorkshire' smell :-)

Where most chip shops still use Lard for cooking chips. and yes it's a
horrible smell....... :-)

But they do taste just so much better :-)

Not to my taste buds..... Anyway I'm veggie.

It's one of the things I really miss, living now in the SE.

One of the things I won't miss when I move back down south........ :-)
--
Chris French, Leeds

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
RichardS noone@invalid wrote:
Where most chip shops still use Lard for cooking chips. and yes it's a
horrible smell....... :-)

But they do taste just so much better :-)

It's one of the things I really miss, living now in the SE.

Yup. And you can't get a decent deep fried Mars bar.



not a food experience I'd even contemplate, I'm afraid


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
..

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup. And you can't get a decent deep fried Mars bar.

For the hautest cuisine try pineapple slices, deep
fried in thick crispy batter.

--
Tony Williams.

"Tony Williams" wrote in message


mmm....Chips done the old-fashioned way, in beef fat.

Lovely grub, pure cholesterol. Oh my aching arteries.

You can't get that for human consumtion in the UK anymore.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

Mary

From http://www.northwales.org.uk/g21/letters.htm


"It is possible to buy tallow in paper wrapped lumps from suppliers of
materials for making traditional paints, for example :-
L. Cornelissen, 105 Great Russel Street, London, WC1B 3R. 071 636
1045. (finest pigments and art materials, booklet on making your own
paints).
Craig and Rose, 172 Leith Walk, Edinburgh, EH6 5EB 0131554 1131 (lead
and oil based distemper)
Cy-Pres, Northants (limewash, soft distemper)01536 373431
Farrow and Ball, Uddens Estate, Wimborne, Dorset BH21 7NL 01202 876141
Robert Butcher, Potmolen Paints, 27 Woodstock Ind. Estate, Warminster,
Wilts. BA12 9DX. 0985 213960. (trad. paints).
Or you should get it from suppliers to the soap making industry.
However, it is everso much cheaper to make it for yourself.

[snip]

To make your own tallow, get some suet fat from the butcher. This is
the heavy thick white fat from inside the back bone of a bovine
carcass. It should be free. You then cut it up a bit to break down the
membranes, and melt it slowly in a large saucepan. A clear fat will
emerge, which can be strained to remove the fibres. You can refine the
fat, by adding a little water, and rendering it. Simply heat for a
while, then allow to cool. The mixture will separate into three
layers. The best tallow on the top, the stock in the middle, and the
solids at the bottom. Try it! - but don't blame me for the
smell......."

Hope this helps

sPoNiX

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
FrancisJK wrote:
"I certainly got some from a PM a few years ago."

What was Tony Blair doing with tallow?!

That's very unkind to Prescott.

--
*Eschew obfuscation *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Rocky Prescott knows where you live! And the u-values of your house!


Francis

In article ,
RichardS noone@invalid wrote:
Where most chip shops still use Lard for cooking chips. and yes
it's a horrible smell....... :-)

But they do taste just so much better :-)

It's one of the things I really miss, living now in the SE.

Yup. And you can't get a decent deep fried Mars bar.

not a food experience I'd even contemplate, I'm afraid

You don't know what you're missing. But then neither do I.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"FrancisJK" wrote
| What was Tony Blair doing with tallow?!
| That's very unkind to Prescott.
| Rocky Prescott knows where you live! And the u-values of your house!

And he'll soon know how many electric sockets you have in your kitchen.

Owain

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup. And you can't get a decent deep fried Mars bar.

For the hautest cuisine try pineapple slices, deep
fried in thick crispy batter.

Blechhhhh ........

--
Tony Williams.

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wanderer wrote:

If you live anywhere near Great Yarmuff, you could try asking at
any of the chip salons in the market place. They all smell
remarkably as though they use tallow to cook the chips. Revolting
smell at times........

mmm....Chips done the old-fashioned way, in beef fat.

Actually you're right. They don't use lard, they use beef dripping, I've
bought it in large quantities from the fish and chip suppliers. But after
seeing the other things they sell I wouldn't eat f&c from a shop ever again
....

And it doesn't smell revolting - or shouldn't. If it does the fat has gone
rancid. That's the myth about tallow candles, that they stink and smoke.
They don't if they're made properly.

Mary

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:dcc134e58e5f3eb8ead3c1ac6f272982.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
"Tony Williams" wrote in message


mmm....Chips done the old-fashioned way, in beef fat.

Lovely grub, pure cholesterol. Oh my aching arteries.

You can't get that for human consumtion in the UK anymore.

Get WHAT for human consumption? Beef fat? Oh yes you can.

Mary

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:a64618c285a7688567a7791c03861ff8.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
Tallow is a higher melting point fat than lard or grease, produced from
any animal. It can also come from some vegetables eg cocao butter.

Tallow is the generic name for animal fat.


Am I right in presuming you want the tallow to mix with whiting as a bed
for the glass in leaded lights? Modern acrylic/mastics seem to work
quite well. I've no idea how well they stand the test of time. (Easily
dispensed though.)

I don't want it and it's to repair a split in a huge lead trough.

While tallow has been used for centuries, might petroleum waxes serve as
well? If so high melting point greases from a motor factor would supply
your needs too.

I think they would but the chap who's donig the repair says he has to have
tallow. I don't think he knows what he's talking about.

Mary


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

Only for wiping. It's not an active enough flux for soft soldering,
and it's unnecessary for lead burning (welding really - the usual
fabrication process for roofing)

However it's easily purchased at an _electrical_ wholesaler. It's the
lubricant for thread cutting on conduit.

Thanks, I'll tell him that. But I don't think he'll accept it ...

Mary

--
Smert' spamionam

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:34:42 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Does ayone still use it for lead work?

If so, what type and where do you acquire it?

Mary

From http://www.northwales.org.uk/g21/letters.htm


"It is possible to buy tallow in paper wrapped lumps from suppliers of
materials for making traditional paints, for example :-

....

Farrow and Ball,

I buy paint from F&B but I've never seen them offering tallow. One of the
colours in their range is 'tallow', we used it in one of our caravans.


[snip]

To make your own tallow, get some suet fat from the butcher. This is
the heavy thick white fat from inside the back bone of a bovine
carcass. It should be free. You then cut it up a bit to break down the
membranes, and melt it slowly in a large saucepan. A clear fat will
emerge, which can be strained to remove the fibres. You can refine the
fat, by adding a little water, and rendering it. Simply heat for a
while, then allow to cool. The mixture will separate into three
layers. The best tallow on the top, the stock in the middle, and the
solids at the bottom. Try it! - but don't blame me for the
smell......."

Look, forget all that about the smell. When you roast meat do you complain
about the smell? That's what tallow smells like.

And suet is the hard fat from round the kidneys of bovine or ovine animals.

And you don't get three layers and you don't need to ... oh heck, where did
you get this guff?

I've been processing tallow for years and make fine candles from it which
are in demand by museums all over UK. There's a lot of misinformation about.

Mary

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:09:20 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I don't want it and it's to repair a split in a huge lead trough.

I think they would but the chap who's donig the repair says he has to have
tallow. I don't think he knows what he's talking about.

He may be right.

Tallow isn't a flux. It's a useless flux, and it's not generally used
on leadwork at a temperature hot enough to even think about being
active. Its main purpose is to be an ablative heat barrier / lubricant
on wooden paddles or wiping moleskins, so that your tools don't stick
and burn on the hot lead.

If you're doing a repair on old lead, it's often a horrible job. Old
lead is just a nasty surface to work through - lots of oxides, there
may even be carbonates or chlorides to dig through. Quite possibly
he's planning to use wooden paddles as part of the shaping process,
almost as a wiping of the joint.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:09:20 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I don't want it and it's to repair a split in a huge lead trough.

I think they would but the chap who's donig the repair says he has to
have
tallow. I don't think he knows what he's talking about.

He may be right.

Tallow isn't a flux.

I know that :-)

If you're doing a repair on old lead, it's often a horrible job. Old
lead is just a nasty surface to work through - lots of oxides, there
may even be carbonates or chlorides to dig through. Quite possibly
he's planning to use wooden paddles as part of the shaping process,
almost as a wiping of the joint.

I doubt it. I really don't think he knows what he's taking on, he's not used
to working with lead and he doesn't understand the chemistry of lead. He's
read a book ...

But I could be wrong. It has been known ...

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net

Get WHAT for human consumption? Beef fat? Oh yes you can.

I'd heard that beef dripping was another casualty of BSE.

So..

Is your friend replacing the valley between two roofs of a church or
something? He'd be as well to lay new lead if so. Old lead stretches
with heat but does not return like other metals, it is too near the
liquid stage so that it flows out and stays out.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

And it doesn't smell revolting

A matter of opinion.....

- or shouldn't. If it does the fat has gone
rancid.

Ok, lets say it has a distinctive aroma :-) Which I find pretty
horrible.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:a64618c285a7688567a7791c03861ff8.45219@mygat e.mailgate.org...
Tallow is a higher melting point fat than lard or grease, produced from
any animal. It can also come from some vegetables eg cocao butter.

Tallow is the generic name for animal fat.


I'm not fat, just tallow

Sounds more just a little plumpish

I'll have to remember that

--
geoff

In message , Owain
writes
"FrancisJK" wrote
| What was Tony Blair doing with tallow?!
| That's very unkind to Prescott.
| Rocky Prescott knows where you live! And the u-values of your house!

And he'll soon know how many electric sockets you have in your kitchen.

And dictate the size of your throne ...

http://www.greatjohn.com/


--
geoff