On 29/05/2020 18:37, tim... wrote:
Some of you may have seen in another place that I am having trouble with
my wireless connections in the house

So I'm thinking about how to add a fixed connection into my office

the distance of cable required is 8-10m

I have (I think) three choices:

1) add a telephone extension into the room, and move the router into
that room and plug the Ethernet directly into the computer

2) run a standard cable (with a plug on each end) between the rooms.

3) add an Ethernet socket on the wall by the router, connected to
another one in the office, plug the router into one, and the computer
into the other.

In all cases I will have to run the cables round the walls, preferably
in trunking.

In the case of (1), I am limited to where I can put it as the router
needs power.Â* This has to be the last choice option.

So, what are the pros and cons of each of these?

Specifically,

1) do I need a particular grade of cable for 10 metres

I have found this:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX305R.html

though it looks too cheap, but I can click and collect

OTOH

http://www.cabling4less.co.uk/catego...xoCuyEQAvD_BwE


looks better, but is mail order only

If I install sockets on the wall, are they easy to wire up?Â* How do I
handle Rx/Tx crossover (or don't I need to?)

I have read that there are restrictions on bending the cable

Will I be able to get around the 90 degree corner as I go up the side of
a wall and then turn to go along the ceiling, all inside trucking?Â* Will
I have to go around that corner outside trucking to avoid bending the
cable too much?

Anything else?

Ta

Tim

It's very much easier to use a wireless extender (or ethernet over mains
if you don't have any radio hams nearby).
The main part of my house is quite long (about 60ft) with unusually
dense concrete block walls. The router/WAP is about 1/3 from one end of
the house and a wireless repeater is plugged-in to a socket on the
landing about 1/3 from the other end. All WiFi devices work fine
all-over the house.

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 May 2020 06:46:38 +1000, Jake56 wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote
Do not connect your router/modem to an extension socket on the phone
network it should be connected directly to the BT/Openreach master
socket with the shortest modem lead you can manage.

Thats bull****. There is FAR more copper lead between the master socket
and the exchange or node than there is to any extension socket.

There's some truth, but it's oversimplified.

We'll see...

The phone line is a twisted pair, which resists interference.
The master socket splits out a bell wire (which isn't needed
by most modern phones, but older ones need it).
This means that the line is no longer balanced,
you have three wires not two.

But the reality is that there are 4 wires in it,
two twisted pairs, so its still balanced.

If you use a plug-in extension, or follow the standard BT
extension plan, you'll extend this unbalanced line

Nope, see above.

which can pick up interference.

Nope.

Also a lot of "extension" cable you can buy in the DIY shops is
poor quality - and extension cables are often flat with no twist.

He wasnt talking about that, he was claiming that the
line between the extension socket and the modem needs
to be a short as possible and that is just plain wrong.

The correct way to do things is fit a filter at the master socket -
something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231901235940 if you've got
a square NTE5A or this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323768321976 for the
new NTE5C. Take a dedicated extension to the router, using only one pair
and proper CW1308 copper (not CCA) cable. Take all the phones from the
filtered terminals using a separate cable. The router lead does want to
be as short as possible, as these usually aren't twisted, though if you
can find a twisted-pair RJ11 lead the length shouldn't matter.

I was ONLY commenting on his claim that the cable between the
extension socket and the modem needs to be as short as possible.

Done like this you should see no drop in speed.

In fact you dont if the cable between the extension
socket and the modem isnt as short as possible either.

Theoretically there's some, due to the extra length
and impedance discontinuity at the master
socket, but it's tiny compared with the line itself.

What I said.

On the other hand, use a 20m tinsel-wire flat cable to extend
your line, and you may well see a substantial drop in speed.

In reality there isnt and trivial to avoid using
tinsel cable of anything like that length too.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 30/05/2020 08:15, Jake56 wrote:
actually it largely is...all te other broadband users on the same cable
run will produce more noise than the radio stations do in total

But the cable is twisted pairs and its not radio stations,
it the ignitions in the traffic thats much worse than
any electrical noise inside the house.

It being twisted will affect any noise it is subject to. It doesn't
apopoly soleley to i=gnition noise.

Never said it did, but ignition noise is in fact
the major electrical noise outside the house.

And the speed you get with broadband isnt determined
by the noise level anyway, its determined by the length
of the run of copper pairs in the street cable.

Precisely. The longer the run the more pickup from adjacent cables and
from radio stations.

It isnt pickup thats the problem, its the loss in the cable.

As well as the weaker the wanted signal.

You seem to be rather weak on the theory of radio.

Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to.

I suggest you study the implications of near versus far field signals on
twisted pair transmission lines,

Been doing that since before you were even born thanks.

and the choice of ADSL bins versus the signal strength of the few
remaining AM radio stations

Thats not what determines the speed you get.

as well as the variation of recieved noise level with the time of day.

Ditto.

Then a short diversions into interference suppression on modern cars
equipped with - yes - AM radios as well, still - should disabuses you of
any notion that you actually know what you are talking about.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

On Sat, 30 May 2020 20:02:16 +1000, Jake56, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

20:02??? And you've been up and trolling since 04:08 last night ...yet
AGAIN, you sick asshole! LMAO

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asshole.
MID:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some of you may have seen in another place that I am having trouble with my
wireless connections in the house

So I'm thinking about how to add a fixed connection into my office

the distance of cable required is 8-10m

I have (I think) three choices:

1) add a telephone extension into the room, and move the router into that
room and plug the Ethernet directly into the computer

2) run a standard cable (with a plug on each end) between the rooms.

3) add an Ethernet socket on the wall by the router, connected to another
one in the office, plug the router into one, and the computer into the
other.

In all cases I will have to run the cables round the walls, preferably in
trunking.

In the case of (1), I am limited to where I can put it as the router needs
power. This has to be the last choice option.

So, what are the pros and cons of each of these?

Best way is to have your router as close to the incoming cable as
possible. Then run CAT5 from it to your computer.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 30 May 2020 20:08:25 +1000, Jake56, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
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MID:

On 29 May 2020 at 20:48:58 BST, "John Rumm"
wrote:

On 29/05/2020 18:37, tim... wrote:
snip

Anything else?

If doing socket to socket installs, it always makes sense to install a
pair of cables and double CAT5e modules at each end. That leave options
in the future, is little extra effort, and the materials are cheap.

It's one of things I'd sort of wished I'd done when I had the opportunity.
However, in the event, in situations where I've needed more than 1 (computer,
TV), I've needed 4 or 5 - so ended up using a switch.

The other thing is run cables/trunking to every room (except the toilet I
suppose) - even if you don't terminate them until needed. And they will be
needed :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

On Sat, 30 May 2020 12:54:18 +0000, RJH wrote:

On 29 May 2020 at 20:48:58 BST, "John Rumm"
wrote:

On 29/05/2020 18:37, tim... wrote:
snip

Anything else?

If doing socket to socket installs, it always makes sense to install a
pair of cables and double CAT5e modules at each end. That leave options
in the future, is little extra effort, and the materials are cheap.

It's one of things I'd sort of wished I'd done when I had the
opportunity. However, in the event, in situations where I've needed more
than 1 (computer,
TV), I've needed 4 or 5 - so ended up using a switch.

The other thing is run cables/trunking to every room (except the toilet
I suppose) - even if you don't terminate them until needed. And they
will be needed :-)

I put them in every room. Sometimes several. There are 27 sockets
altogether.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 30/05/2020 08:54, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message

A more elegant solution, since you can now run the wiring in solid
core CAT5e rather than with a stranded patch lead. Both do the job,
but the solid core is easier to route and dress along the way.

I'm hiding it in plastic trucking (having only recently decorated I'm
not chasing walls and redecorating today)

it will look exactly the same, whatever is inside

it's only the flying ends that will look different

Wait until you have tried stuffing it in the trunking :-)

(the solid core is still generally easier to work with than stranded).

1) do I need a particular grade of cable for 10 metres

CAT5e in either case. Preferably proper copper cable and not Copper
Clad Steel (CCS) or Copper Clad Aluminium (CCA).

will they go round my 90 degree bends?

Yes - although go for a decent size like 25x16 rather than the 16x16 and
it gets easier (and looks somewhat better IMHO)

(having said that - if you have a cable stapler, then a single CAT5 wire
is fairly unobtrusive if clipped direct)

I have found this:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX305R.html

though it looks too cheap, but I can click and collect

Its cheap because, patch leads are dirt cheap at trade(ish) prices,

that not how pricing of sat cables works, least not last time I looked

With network stuff I find if you buy patch cables at retail you may well
have to pay several quid even for short leads.

Compa

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/comput...pid=display~RR

With:

https://www.comms-express.com/produc.../?5~Metre?Blue


and, its CCA - so cheap cable.

being cheap is good, if it works

Well that is the if... much also depends on how you define "works". Yes
they may well get a signal down them, however its doubtful if they
actually meet the ethernet cable specs. So you can find that on the ends
of longer networks you start getting unreliable performance. The s/n
headroom may be lower. They may fail sooner with repeated handling.

So personally I never use CC cable, since the cost saving is not worth
being called back to a customer to fix something later, which results in
far more expense and hassle.

However in the home on a short segment, it will be fine.

In reality at 10m it will work fine.

ok

(I would still opt to pay a similar price for copper from a different
vendor)

https://www.comms-express.com/categories/cat5e-rj45-ethernet-cable-patch-leads-cables/?finder=rj45&params=Category|Cat5e,UTP%20/%20FTP|UTP,Length|10mt


Usually only do copper.

If I install sockets on the wall, are they easy to wire up?Â* How do I

Yup, especially if you get decent quality CAT5e modules. I like these:

https://www.comms-express.com/produc...ttered-module/

so I need the tool to push the wires in

Yup, known in the industry as a "Krone" tool (named after the original
manufacturer).

e.g:

https://www.comms-express.com/produc...nch-down-tool/

(cheaper ones are available, although I tend to find the trimmer
actually works first time most of the time on the slightly better
examples).

So to do the whole job, fix your back box to the wall, and take the
cables into it. You can fit the modular faceplate now or later. Leave
yourself ~5" of cable to work with. Strip 40mm or so of insulation off
the cable, and cable tie the sheath onto the CAT5 module. position the
wires in the terminals - only untwisting as much as necessary to do so.
You manually push the wire into the outer jaws of the terminal - they
are (if well made) designed to allow that fairly easily, and keep a grip
on the wire until punch down. The tool is then positioned in the
terminal, and with a single click effect push, the blades drive the wire
into the IDC terminal blades, and the scissor section on the end trims
off any overhang.

If that all looks good the wire can be folder into the backbox avoiding
sharp bends, and click the module into the face plate.


I have read that there are restrictions on bending the cable

The guideline is normally no tighter than 4x the cable diameter (about
1").

1" diameter , radius, something else?

Bending radius...

In reality for simple runs you will get away with say the radius of a
pound coin.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/05/2020 08:58, tim... wrote:


"Paul" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
Some of you may have seen in another place that I am having trouble
with my wireless connections in the house


If you're made of money, you can fix this by drilling zero holes.

They're called mesh routers.

that's already been suggested elsewhere

but it isn't a no-mess solution, because they presumably need power

and (like most houses) I don't have power sockets at ceiling height

How about at floor height in the room above?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
On Friday, 29 May 2020 18:38:15 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
In the case of (1), I am limited to where I can put it as the router needs
power. This has to be the last choice option.

The somewhat-lateral approach to that problem is to run the router's power supply over the ethernet cable between the router and a central location.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/8yS3u.png at
https://superuser.com/questions/1311...our-fttp-point

and makes the point it can make it easier to put the router onto a UPS near all the other network equipment.

There's also fairly minimalist PoE extractors for 12V kit, which routers
often a
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DSLRKIT-Act.../dp/B01H37XNHE
(also 5V versions)

and if you don't have a proper PoE injector you can just plug in the
router's PSU via a passive PoE injector/splitter:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/HSeaMall-Pa.../dp/B076LWCLN2

Theo

On 30 May 2020 13:04:10 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

snip

The other thing is run cables/trunking to every room (except the toilet
I suppose) - even if you don't terminate them until needed. And they
will be needed :-)

I put them in every room.

So did I, it was Cat3 at the time though (and some of it still is).
;-)

Sometimes several.

I only did 1 / room at the time as I had a room mainly for all that
sort of thing (inc my Arcnet and TR stuff). ;-)

There are 27 sockets
altogether.

I have several switches round the house now and most of them are
filled with all lights on, inc the main one, a T-P Link 16p Gb jobby.
;-)

I put an 8 port Gb switch in daughters flat a while back and that too
has all ports filled. Colour LJ, OMV NAS, PS3, her Desktop PC, nieces
desktop PC, CCTV box and the Smart TV (+ uplink to the router). Plus
the WiFi stuff like phones, tablets and laptops.

Even Mum (90) has a smart TV, BR player, two iPads, iPhone, NowTV
stick and a Mini PC I keep there. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news
On 30/05/2020 08:58, tim... wrote:


"Paul" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
Some of you may have seen in another place that I am having trouble
with my wireless connections in the house


If you're made of money, you can fix this by drilling zero holes.

They're called mesh routers.

that's already been suggested elsewhere

but it isn't a no-mess solution, because they presumably need power

and (like most houses) I don't have power sockets at ceiling height

How about at floor height in the room above?

I don't think my neighbour would be happy with that

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 30 May 2020 at 11:02:16 BST, "Jake56" wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 May 2020 06:46:38 +1000, Jake56 wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote
Do not connect your router/modem to an extension socket on the phone
network it should be connected directly to the BT/Openreach master
socket with the shortest modem lead you can manage.

Thats bull****. There is FAR more copper lead between the master
socket
and the exchange or node than there is to any extension socket.

There's some truth, but it's oversimplified.

We'll see...

The phone line is a twisted pair, which resists interference.
The master socket splits out a bell wire (which isn't needed
by most modern phones, but older ones need it).
This means that the line is no longer balanced,
you have three wires not two.

But the reality is that there are 4 wires in it,
two twisted pairs, so its still balanced.

There's no signal on the fourth wire, so that pair is not balanced, if the
third wire is carrying the bell signal.

But the other pair with the broadband on it is balanced
and thats what matters performance wise.

Disconnecting the bell wire made a substantial difference here. (Not that
it matters now we have FTTC)

If you use a plug-in extension, or follow the standard BT
extension plan, you'll extend this unbalanced line

Nope, see above.

which can pick up interference.

Nope.

Certainly it can, which is why the universal recommendation has been to
disconnect the bell wire - leaving the second TP entirely unused.

Separate issue to what I commented on, his claim that the lead between
the extension socket and the modem had to be a short as possible;

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Some of you may have seen in another place that I am having trouble with
my
wireless connections in the house

So I'm thinking about how to add a fixed connection into my office

the distance of cable required is 8-10m

I have (I think) three choices:

1) add a telephone extension into the room, and move the router into that
room and plug the Ethernet directly into the computer

2) run a standard cable (with a plug on each end) between the rooms.

3) add an Ethernet socket on the wall by the router, connected to another
one in the office, plug the router into one, and the computer into the
other.

In all cases I will have to run the cables round the walls, preferably in
trunking.

In the case of (1), I am limited to where I can put it as the router
needs
power. This has to be the last choice option.

So, what are the pros and cons of each of these?

Best way is to have your router as close to the incoming cable as
possible.

Not necessary because there is far more cable
from the house to the exchange or RIM/CMUX.

Then run CAT5 from it to your computer.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/05/2020 19:55, tim... wrote:


"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 29/05/2020 19:22, David wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2020 18:37:05 +0100, tim... wrote:

Some of you may have seen in another place that I am having trouble
with
my wireless connections in the house

So I'm thinking about how to add a fixed connection into my office

the distance of cable required is 8-10m

I have (I think) three choices:

1) add a telephone extension into the room, and move the router into
that room and plug the Ethernet directly into the computer

2) run a standard cable (with a plug on each end) between the rooms.

3) add an Ethernet socket on the wall by the router, connected to
another one in the office, plug the router into one, and the computer
into the other.

In all cases I will have to run the cables round the walls, preferably
in trunking.

In the case of (1), I am limited to where I can put it as the router
needs power.Â* This has to be the last choice option.

So, what are the pros and cons of each of these?

Specifically,

1) do I need a particular grade of cable for 10 metres

I have found this:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX305R.html

though it looks too cheap, but I can click and collect

OTOH

http://www.cabling4less.co.uk/category.php?
terms=28-0100Y&source=googleproducts&gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRAS EiwAENqAPuPpagMT2lBOQai1pqjaU6fA0QONhltF9pymPnyQ2k-

BGaUVEXjn3xoCuyEQAvD_BwE

looks better, but is mail order only

If I install sockets on the wall, are they easy to wire up?Â* How do I
handle Rx/Tx crossover (or don't I need to?)

I have read that there are restrictions on bending the cable

Will I be able to get around the 90 degree corner as I go up the
side of
a wall and then turn to go along the ceiling, all inside trucking?
Will
I have to go around that corner outside trucking to avoid bending the
cable too much?

Anything else?

Ta

Tim

You have linked to a 10 metre patch cable at TLC so that will only work
for option (2).
If that will work for you (and you have no issues getting the cable
through doorways and still having the door shut) then that seems an easy
option. Assuming that you really only need 10 metres.
Again you cabling4less link shows a cable with plugs at both ends.

Cat5e cable is fine unless you want speeds over a Gigabit per second.

If you want to install a socket in your office and another by the router
then you will need a length of Cat5e cable, two sockets and a punch down
tool to wire up the back of the sockets. Plus a patch cable from the
socket to the computer ans the socket to the router.
More hassle and extra tools.

Â*From your description I would go for option 2 but get a 15 metre cable
because you always need more length than you think.


Cheers


Dave R




A hardwired CAT5e link with wall mounted sockets is the best 'permanent'
solution, but you don't need punchdown tools. Some CAT5e socket modules
just have a press-on cover plate that pushes all 8 wires in in one go.

that sounds a weird solution starting with a circular cable?

Not really. You cut back the sheath in the normal way,
locate each of the coloured wires over the correct connector
then press the backplate on and it will simultaneously punch down
and clamp all 8 wires. No need for a punchdown tool.


There are those plug-in things that carry ethernet over mains wiring for
a quick fix. Lifetime before failure ? - variable.

I'm going to end up a with Christmas tree of plugs in the hallway,Â* I
don't think this will be a good solution

I'm also not sure that hall and bedroom are on the same ring (yes I know
that I could test by turning it off at the CU)

The man's coming next week to do other work.Â* It wont cost me any more
for him to drill a couple of holes and fix some trucking as I pay him a
day rate and don't have enough other work.

so 5 pounds of cable and 10 pounds for trunking is the cheapest solution

On Sun, 31 May 2020 05:10:01 +1000, Jake56, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
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"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Sun, 31 May 2020 05:13:27 +1000, Jake56, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
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Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 30/05/2020 11:08, Jake56 wrote:



You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.


Ah. Tis Rod


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

On 30/05/2020 13:54, RJH wrote:
On 29 May 2020 at 20:48:58 BST, "John Rumm"
wrote:

On 29/05/2020 18:37, tim... wrote:
snip

Anything else?

If doing socket to socket installs, it always makes sense to install a
pair of cables and double CAT5e modules at each end. That leave options
in the future, is little extra effort, and the materials are cheap.

It's one of things I'd sort of wished I'd done when I had the opportunity.
However, in the event, in situations where I've needed more than 1 (computer,
TV), I've needed 4 or 5 - so ended up using a switch.

The other thing is run cables/trunking to every room (except the toilet I
suppose) - even if you don't terminate them until needed. And they will be
needed :-)

Yup better to have stuff installed and not required rather than the
other way around.

I ran out at least a pair to every room, and more in some places - doing
pairs on both sides of some rooms. Even then I still need a couple of
extra 8 port switches in some places (my office, and behind the TV)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 30 May 2020 at 20:10:01 BST, "Jake56" wrote:



"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 30 May 2020 at 11:02:16 BST, "Jake56" wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 May 2020 06:46:38 +1000, Jake56 wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote
Do not connect your router/modem to an extension socket on the phone
network it should be connected directly to the BT/Openreach master
socket with the shortest modem lead you can manage.

Thats bull****. There is FAR more copper lead between the master
socket
and the exchange or node than there is to any extension socket.

There's some truth, but it's oversimplified.

We'll see...

The phone line is a twisted pair, which resists interference.
The master socket splits out a bell wire (which isn't needed
by most modern phones, but older ones need it).
This means that the line is no longer balanced,
you have three wires not two.

But the reality is that there are 4 wires in it,
two twisted pairs, so its still balanced.

There's no signal on the fourth wire, so that pair is not balanced, if
the third wire is carrying the bell signal.

But the other pair with the broadband on it is balanced
and thats what matters performance wise.

Not if you have a wire sat next to it picking up a load of RF noise.

The pair with the broadband on it is still a balanced pair.

And the street cable has unused pairs in it too
and a lot more RF noise than the one in the house.


Disconnecting the bell wire made a substantial difference here. (Not
that it matters now we have FTTC)

If you use a plug-in extension, or follow the standard BT
extension plan, you'll extend this unbalanced line

Nope, see above.

which can pick up interference.

Nope.

Certainly it can, which is why the universal recommendation has been to
disconnect the bell wire - leaving the second TP entirely unused.

Separate issue to what I commented on, his claim that the lead between
the extension socket and the modem had to be a short as possible;

And so it should be, dumb-cluck.

Have fun explaining why that is necessary when there is far
more from the master socket to the exchange or RIM/CMUX.

And its trivial try both alternatives and see it makes no difference,
as I think it was Martin who said that he did that and found that
it made no difference.

--
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly
strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)

On Sun, 31 May 2020 12:43:07 +1000, Jake56, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On 30 May 2020 14:51:11 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DSLRKIT-Act...t-IEEE802-3at/
dp/B01H37XNHE

Reviews suggest that it's only capable for 12 W rather than the
claimd 24 W...

and if you don't have a proper PoE injector you can just plug in the
router's PSU via a passive PoE injector/splitter:

I'd avoid passive PoE. When chasing down a fault or patching issue
it's far to easy to put something on the end of the live cable that
objects and lets the magic smoke out.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sunday, 31 May 2020 00:06:56 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
I ran out at least a pair to every room, and more in some places - doing
pairs on both sides of some rooms. Even then I still need a couple of
extra 8 port switches in some places (my office, and behind the TV)

The problem with relying on ethernet switches is that Cat5+ cable is useful for so many other things too, which don't run on ethernet.

Analogue phone lines is the obvious example (I have 5 in the lounge and two in the kitchen)

Owain

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 00:06:56 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
I ran out at least a pair to every room, and more in some places -
doing pairs on both sides of some rooms. Even then I still need a
couple of extra 8 port switches in some places (my office, and behind
the TV)

The problem with relying on ethernet switches is that Cat5+ cable is
useful for so many other things too, which don't run on ethernet.

Analogue phone lines is the obvious example (I have 5 in the lounge and
two in the kitchen)

Owain

When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an extension to my bedroom legally.

The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but the remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Owain

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our
hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an
extension to my bedroom legally.

You could always have legal extensions. But had to pay rental for each
handset. And they were hard wired.

BT then brought in a plug in system - but different from today's one.

The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but the
remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Of course these days decent cordless will work anywhere in the house from
the one base station.

--
*Save the whale - I'll have it for my supper*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our
hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an
extension to my bedroom legally.

You could always have legal extensions. But had to pay rental for each
handset. And they were hard wired.

BT then brought in a plug in system - but different from today's one.

The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but the
remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Of course these days decent cordless will work anywhere in the house from
the one base station.

That depends on what your internal walls are made of.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 31/05/2020 13:37, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our
hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an
extension to my bedroom legally.

You could always have legal extensions. But had to pay rental for each
handset. And they were hard wired.

BT then brought in a plug in system - but different from today's one.

The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but the
remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Of course these days decent cordless will work anywhere in the house from
the one base station.

That depends on what your internal walls are made of.

Exactly. As usual Plow**** thinks the world is just like his shonky house


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 31/05/2020 11:46, wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 00:06:56 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
I ran out at least a pair to every room, and more in some places - doing
pairs on both sides of some rooms. Even then I still need a couple of
extra 8 port switches in some places (my office, and behind the TV)

The problem with relying on ethernet switches is that Cat5+ cable is useful for so many other things too, which don't run on ethernet.

Analogue phone lines is the obvious example (I have 5 in the lounge and two in the kitchen)

Yup fair point, and to an extent I let where phones would likely be
required to be a driver in the layout.

So for example, in bedrooms I ran out four pairs typically - one
positioned where a phone close to the bed would be most likely required,
and then the second where you might have a TV or computer etc.

Having said that, at least with phones, you can split one port to
support up to 4 analogue phones if required (although you will get some
crosstalk from the ring signal bleeding through to other lines).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/05/2020 13:37, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our
hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an
extension to my bedroom legally.

You could always have legal extensions. But had to pay rental for each
handset. And they were hard wired.

BT then brought in a plug in system - but different from today's one.

The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but the
remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Of course these days decent cordless will work anywhere in the house from
the one base station.

That depends on what your internal walls are made of.

Exactly. As usual Plow**** thinks the world is just like his shonky house

Not everyone lives in a cave, Turnip. And has caveman views.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long before
internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our
hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an
extension to my bedroom legally.

You could always have legal extensions. But had to pay rental for each
handset. And they were hard wired.

BT then brought in a plug in system - but different from today's one.

The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but the
remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Of course these days decent cordless will work anywhere in the house from
the one base station.

That depends on what your internal walls are made of.

Lent one to next door when her landline was done. Worked OK there. So
through two 9" brick walls.

Do you live in a soundproofed building? ;-)

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, 31 May 2020 11:52:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
When I wired this house I ran phone cable to every room. Long
before internet days.

When I was a kid we had to have the BT fitter come and convert our
hardwired phone to the new style socket system so I could run an
extension to my bedroom legally.

You could always have legal extensions. But had to pay rental for
each handset. And they were hard wired.

BT then brought in a plug in system - but different from today's one.


The flat is wired for phone wiring for the first 8 extensions, but
the remainder of the PABX goes through the data rack.

Of course these days decent cordless will work anywhere in the house
from the one base station.

That depends on what your internal walls are made of.

Lent one to next door when her landline was done. Worked OK there. So
through two 9" brick walls.


probably depends on the bricks. This house has very hard (1910ish) ones.

Some people use foil backed plasterboard in "modernisation" situations,

I had a colleague whose cottage had stone dividing walls. Even FM radio
couldn't penertrate.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle