Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

--

Jeff

On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

Not sure, Nicads don't last if stored either. However, the non self
discharging cells have been around for a good decade now as far as I know.
What annoys me is the naff batteries they put into shavers these days. If
you get 18 months out of one then you are doing well, and in the old ones
you could remove the old ones as a pack, and get a new set, most nowadays
seem to suggest you break the shaver to remove the batteries to recycle then
buy a new Shaver, you listening Remington?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme powered
screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my Hitachi
drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the screwdriver
I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the motor turned. I
though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells, but I tried again
and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it turning by
gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On Sunday, 1 March 2020 08:53:43 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

I recently found my very old iPad - generation 1. Flat, yes. But charged it up and it appeared to retain charge very well, and worked as well as ever. (Except the ancient version of IOS hits numerous issues if you actually want to do anything with it.) Even leaving it lying around for a few weeks, charge hardly dropped.

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote :
If you get 18 months out of one then you are doing well, and in the old ones
you could remove the old ones as a pack, and get a new set, most nowadays
seem to suggest you break the shaver to remove the batteries to recycle then
buy a new Shaver, you listening Remington?

I have a 12 year old Philishave and a 3 year old Lidl shaver, both used
only very occasionally, Philishave in the house, Lidl in the caravan.
Each has a charge remaining display and both will still show 100% if
unused for many months.

On 01/03/20 09:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then

They are. Nothing on the device itself, but I dug out the instructions
and they say they are NiCd. The instructions are dated 4/2006. I guess I
bought it within a year or two of that date; I'm surprised that NiCds
were still around them, but I guess they were still using them on
low-end products.

Sites vary in what they state is the self-discharge rate of a NiCd cell.
The best is 10%/month, but the most common is 15 - 20%. Not in my
experience - it's around 1.5% if those cells were last recharged about 6
years ago! :-)

--

Jeff

On 01/03/2020 10:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote :
*If you get 18 months out of one then you are doing well, and in the
old ones you could remove the old ones as a pack, and get a new set,
most nowadays seem to suggest you break the shaver to remove the
batteries to recycle then buy a new Shaver, you listening Remington?

I have a 12 year old Philishave and a 3 year old Lidl shaver, both used
only very occasionally, Philishave in the house, Lidl in the caravan.
Each has a charge remaining display and both will still show 100% if
unused for many months.

Best electric shave I've ever had was from a mains only Remington
shaver with a proper 240v motor, cutters moved violently side to side at
50Hz.

These whizzy electric motors and cams (or whatever) don't have the force
(mass * acceleration) to undo my cave man look.

--
Adrian C

On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 10:45:52 GMT, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
wrote:

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote :
If you get 18 months out of one then you are doing well, and in the old ones
you could remove the old ones as a pack, and get a new set, most nowadays
seem to suggest you break the shaver to remove the batteries to recycle then
buy a new Shaver, you listening Remington?

I have a 12 year old Philishave and a 3 year old Lidl shaver, both used
only very occasionally, Philishave in the house, Lidl in the caravan.
Each has a charge remaining display and both will still show 100% if
unused for many months.

Can you still get mains only Philishaves, or is my current one going
to be my last?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then



Id have said NiMH. I find NiMH cells / batteries not only hold a charge
for a long time but NiCds dont. Ive some cheapish NiMH cells I made into
batteries around 2001 /2 which are still good. I check them perhaps every
couple of months or so, sometimes top them up ( they are for amateur radio
transceivers), and they seem fine.

Conversely, when I used to use NiCads, they died if you stored them and
didnt charge them before they €˜reversed themselves- sometimes within a
month.

Graham. wrote:

Can you still get mains only Philishaves, or is my current one going
to be my last?

Doesn't seem to be much choice

https://www.argos.co.uk/browse/health-and-beauty/mens-shaving-and-grooming/mens-shavers/c:29256/brandshilips/power-source:mains/

They'd rather sell you a cordless Qi recharging, submersible one that
applies lotion as it goes, and probably pleasures your wife, but costs
10x as much

On 01/03/2020 11:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 01/03/20 09:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then

They are. Nothing on the device itself, but I dug out the instructions
and they say they are NiCd. The instructions are dated 4/2006. I guess I
bought it within a year or two of that date; I'm surprised that NiCds
were still around them, but I guess they were still using them on
low-end products.

Sites vary in what they state is the self-discharge rate of a NiCd cell.
The best is 10%/month, but the most common is 15 - 20%. Not in my
experience - it's around 1.5% if those cells were last recharged about 6
years ago! :-)

no. NiMh are the 10% a month

NiCd seems a bit better


--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
€“ H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

On 01/03/2020 14:20, Brian Reay wrote:
Id have said NiMH. I find NiMH cells / batteries not only hold a charge
for a long time but NiCds dont.

The reverse is actually true.

Ive some cheapish NiMH cells I made into
batteries around 2001 /2 which are still good. I check them perhaps every
couple of months or so, sometimes top them up ( they are for amateur radio
transceivers), and they seem fine.

Conversely, when I used to use NiCads, they died if you stored them and
didnt charge them before they €˜reversed themselves- sometimes within a
month.

Bad cells.


--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
€“ H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

Well that has not been my experience. I cannot see charge remaining
displays, but my Remmington has one I know in the shape of a cell. It now
refuses to charge or run from its mains supply, even though it used to.
Modern ones have such a weedy mains unit that you can only charge, not run
the shaver from them.
Bah Humbug.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Harry Bloomfield; "Esq." wrote in
message ...
Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote :
If you get 18 months out of one then you are doing well, and in the old
ones you could remove the old ones as a pack, and get a new set, most
nowadays seem to suggest you break the shaver to remove the batteries to
recycle then buy a new Shaver, you listening Remington?

I have a 12 year old Philishave and a 3 year old Lidl shaver, both used
only very occasionally, Philishave in the house, Lidl in the caravan. Each
has a charge remaining display and both will still show 100% if unused for
many months.

That is a whole other issue of course. There is no reason why rotary shavers
based on modern direct drive motors, small versions of those used in drones
and dvd players, cannot be set up to work well. Its just penny pinching and
crap batteries and power supplies.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 01/03/2020 10:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote :
If you get 18 months out of one then you are doing well, and in the old
ones you could remove the old ones as a pack, and get a new set, most
nowadays seem to suggest you break the shaver to remove the batteries to
recycle then buy a new Shaver, you listening Remington?

I have a 12 year old Philishave and a 3 year old Lidl shaver, both used
only very occasionally, Philishave in the house, Lidl in the caravan.
Each has a charge remaining display and both will still show 100% if
unused for many months.

Best electric shave I've ever had was from a mains only Remington shaver
with a proper 240v motor, cutters moved violently side to side at 50Hz.

These whizzy electric motors and cams (or whatever) don't have the force
(mass * acceleration) to undo my cave man look.

--
Adrian C

Yes and most won't run and charge at the same time.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Graham. wrote:

Can you still get mains only Philishaves, or is my current one going
to be my last?

Doesn't seem to be much choice

https://www.argos.co.uk/browse/health-and-beauty/mens-shaving-and-grooming/mens-shavers/c:29256/brandshilips/power-source:mains/

They'd rather sell you a cordless Qi recharging, submersible one that
applies lotion as it goes, and probably pleasures your wife, but costs 10x
as much

On 01/03/2020 17:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 11:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 01/03/20 09:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to
stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap
screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then

They are. Nothing on the device itself, but I dug out the instructions
and they say they are NiCd. The instructions are dated 4/2006. I guess
I bought it within a year or two of that date; I'm surprised that
NiCds were still around them, but I guess they were still using them
on low-end products.

Sites vary in what they state is the self-discharge rate of a NiCd
cell. The best is 10%/month, but the most common is 15 - 20%. Not in
my experience - it's around 1.5% if those cells were last recharged
about 6 years ago! :-)

no. NiMh are theÂ* 10% a month

I don't observe that even with cheap 'unbranded' cell bought from CPC in
about 2001/2. I built several battery packs for Icom handhelds plus a
special for an IC202S (another transceiver) - 7 or 8 cells in each pack
and 10 in the special. When I check them every couple of months or so,
they show hardly any sign of discharge. I sometimes miss a check-
especially if we are away- and even then they show little signs of
discharge when I get around to checking them. I sometimes give them a
discharge cycle and a charge, others just as brief top up.

Conversely, when I used to use NiCads, I bought (supposedly) quality
ones and treated them like cherished offspring. They were still unreliable.

I've observed the same with commercial, ready built, NiCD and NiMH packs
for another handheld bought around 2005 or 6.

I have had NiMH cells fail, including ones which have a good name, but
only rarely. I'm currently trying some Ikea ones which have a good
reputation and, so far, seem reasonable but I've only had them a year or
so. The Ikea 'wall charger' which not only charges them but keeps them
'topped up' until needed seems pretty good.

On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

I have found nimh batteries can be left in old and new equipment for
years as long as there is no soft switching of the off on....no ni cads
were different ....

On 03/03/2020 10:22, Brian Reay wrote:
On 01/03/2020 17:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 11:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 01/03/20 09:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/03/2020 08:53, Jeff Layman wrote:
Clearing out the shed I came across my old 4.8v Challenge Extreme
powered screwdriver, which I hadn't seen for at least 6 years (I
use my
Hitachi drill/driver instead). When I opened the box and took out the
screwdriver I accidently touched the trigger and was amazed when the
motor turned. I though it might be the dregs of a charge in the cells,
but I tried again and it turned. In fact, it was not possible to
stop it
turning by gripping the shaft.

I have no idea what brand NiMH cells were used in this cheap
screwdriver
(Argos), but for the four of them to retain a good charge for 6 years
seems very unusual to me.

Probably Nicd then

They are. Nothing on the device itself, but I dug out the
instructions and they say they are NiCd. The instructions are dated
4/2006. I guess I bought it within a year or two of that date; I'm
surprised that NiCds were still around them, but I guess they were
still using them on low-end products.

Sites vary in what they state is the self-discharge rate of a NiCd
cell. The best is 10%/month, but the most common is 15 - 20%. Not in
my experience - it's around 1.5% if those cells were last recharged
about 6 years ago! :-)

no. NiMh are theÂ* 10% a month

I don't observe that even with cheap 'unbranded' cell bought from CPC in
about 2001/2.Â* I built several battery packs for Icom handhelds plus a
special for an IC202S (another transceiver) - 7 or 8 cells in each pack
and 10 in the special. When I check them every couple of months or so,
they show hardly any sign of discharge. I sometimes miss a check-
especially if we are away- and even then they show little signs of
discharge when I get around to checking them. I sometimes give them a
discharge cycle and a charge, others just as brief top up.

Conversely, when I used to use NiCads, I bought (supposedly) quality
ones and treated them like cherished offspring. They were still unreliable.

I've observed the same with commercial, ready built, NiCD and NiMH packs
for another handheld bought around 2005 or 6.

I have had NiMH cells fail, including ones which have a good name, but
only rarely. I'm currently trying some Ikea ones which have a good
reputation and, so far, seem reasonable but I've only had them a year or
so. The Ikea 'wall charger' which not only charges them but keeps them
'topped up' until needed seems pretty good.



very true ...