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  #1   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276


Well, because of the 20% off sale/war that was going on between the
two Borgs, I picked up one of Delta's Chinese 14" Bandsaws - in spite
of the generally bad press it has received here. I figured if it was
that bad, I would just rebox it and return it. $300 bucks doesn't buy
much these days - or does it? This will probably be the last shocking
review of the 2003 year - you won't believe how this unit worked out.

First of all, the shipping cartons were not smashed, crunched or
otherwise mutilated. Considering how the unit is packed, this is an
important point. Any mishandling would probably result in damage.

After unloading this thing from a pickup truck and moving it into the
shop on a hand truck - by myself - I can tell you this is one heavy
sucker. My scale said 262 pounds - you would be smart to get help
moving it. Of course, a big chuck of Chinese cast iron isn't worth
much these days unless it works.

Upon unpacking all the various bits and pieces and confirming that it
was all present and intact, I began the leisurely 2 hour job of
assembling the unit. Everything fit fine, no surprises, no drilling
out holes, no missing parts. Kerosene made short work of the minimal
amounts of goop on the machined parts.

When placing the saw itself onto the stand, I noticed that the lower
wheel had a lot of lateral runout. "Bummer", I thought, it IS a lemon
after all. So after a cursory alignment of the guides and blade
tracking, I powered up the unit and sure enough, it vibrated so bad
the table rattled against the 90d stop. My heart sunk into my shoes.

Keeping in mind that I don't like Chinese products, and generally try
to avoid them - it has gotten to the point that you just can't buy
much of anything these days without getting that damned Made in China
sticker on the box. I knew what to expect with this unit, so it was
not a surprise. But the castings, while a little rough, were not that
bad. The sheet metal, while a little sparse, does what it is supposed
to do. I was impressed to see that the blade covers were hinged, and
the bearing and guides were standard Delta parts. In fact, everything
about the unit is pretty standard. Even the huge MIC motor, which can
be wired to run on 120 or 240, is a standard baseplate and woodruff
keyed shaft design that could be replaced with ANY equivalent motor.
So, I thought, maybe I can massage this turd and make it work. My
demands for a bandsaw are not extreme - and the worst thing I might
want to do is cut down a few 10" oak logs.(!) Generally, though, most
of what I want to do is cut round tabletops and the odd bit of joinery
and specialty shaping. And for $300 bucks, I can afford to throw down
with a little post manufacturing tuning and modification.

So, with my trusty dial indicator in hand, I set about the task of
improving it's dismal performance. First, I removed the tires from
the wheels and checked lateral and radial runout. The top wheel was
pretty good at .003" radial and .004" lateral runout. The bottom
wheel, however, measured a pathetic .060" lateral and .003" radial.
It became clear where most of the vibration was coming from. So,
seeing as how Delta wouldn't get a replacement wheel here for a couple
of weeks, I decided to take matters into my own hands and true the
wheel the best I could. I caution the boys and girls in the audience
NOT to try this at home, unless very familiar with aluminum and how
easily it cracks. Slowly working around the wheel, with a dial
indicator, I trued the wheel until the runout was reduced to .006" and
decided to stop before reaching the point of diminishing returns.
Then I carefully removed any flashing from the wheels, cleaned and
replaced the tires. The poorly formed, red plastic tires that come
with this unit are bad - there is no denying this, but for a few bucks
you can replace them with better tires - I believe they are also
standard. Although they are supposed to be slightly crowned, I used a
cabinet scraper to smooth out the horrible lumps and improved their
smoothness. I then insured the motor and pulley alignment, and placed
an old dryer belt tensioning spring on the motor bracket to slightly
tension the belt. (Yea, I'm a packrat! So sue me.) Replaced the
blade, adjusted the guides, and powered up. Wow - what a difference!

I then tweaked the guide adjustment collars to eliminate play, cleaned
the bearings of excess oil, grease, and goop, and readjusted all the
guides/bearings again. I checked the tabletop for flatness and was
amazed to find that it was quite good. Diagonally left rear to right
front was .003". Right rear to left front was .006". Running my
fingers over the surface, I could tell there was a spot on the right
rear edge that the cutter had chattered when milled, and left a slight
hump on the very edge. Checking again just shy of this hump revealed
a measurement of .004" So I cut down the edge with a file and ended
up with a table flat within .003" The milling work on the table is a
little rough, primarily where the cutter head first engaged the table
and again where it began to clear. Most of this is insignificant to
woodworking - a little file work cleaned it up pretty well.

Now for the ultimate test! g I stood a (old, worn) nickel on it's
edge and powered up the saw, and low and behold - it remained
standing. It danced around slightly until up to speed, but overall,
I'm impressed that it performed this well. I grabbed an old 2x4 and
carved a sliver off the edge. There was a slight amount of lead
(skew) to the cut, as there is with most all bandsaws, but it seemed
minimal - adjusting the fence about 3/8" from front to rear of the
table seemed to take care of it. Now keep in mind that this is the
1/4" OEM blade that has very little hook. I don't know the exact
blade specs, because Delta doesn't provide any, but it appears to be
about 3-5d of tooth hook and small gullets - not a good choice for
resawing. I stood a 1x6 pine cutoff on edge and, after setting the
fence for thickness and approximate lead (I had an old MDF fence for a
router table that fit perfectly). I proceeded to shave off a 1/32"
slice of wood. The cut, although a little rough and wavy due to the
blade design, was fine. There was no burning and although the feed
rate was a little slow, IT WORKED! No problems with vibration or
guide distortion, either. Then I cut a 6" heart shape out of 7/16"
OSB, then of 3/4" MDF. Reduced a bunch of 2x4s and a 3" thick piece
of oak bar edging to firewood. No problems here either - just a nice
searing sound of steel cutting through wood.

Overall, it did a pretty good job, but I can tell that the motor is
somewhat underpowered. I feel I got my money's worth with this unit,
and although I may replace the motor and tires, and install a riser
before investing in any good blades, I am impressed with it's
performance. I will expect Delta to replace the lower wheel, however.

Overall impressions a

I love the tension arm - although there is a bit of play in the
mechanism when released. When tensioned, it is OK and the blade
tracks properly in the center of the wheels - every time. I had no
problems with this at all.

The table flatness surprised me. The finish table didn't.

The table trunions are cast iron, but could have probably used more
fasteners to the frame (there are only two). This is a primary source
of the remaining minimal vibration. The angle adjustment 'slides'
need to be deburred and the paint cleaned off to insure smooth
adjustment. The table's 90d stop should have the head ground smooth
(to remove the lettering) and possibly covered with a thin resilient
material. (Thin tape?) A slight sound is emitted here.

The frame paint is complete, and the sheet metal paint is great.

The castings are a little rough, but not in any way that matters.
There is a small void or two in some items, like the tension arm stud.

The 4" dust collection fitting is a Godsend! It is actually cast into
the frame, so there are no crappy plastic pieces to break off. It
points perpendicular to the wheels, away from the operator, so it
shouldn't take up shop space. If only it had a tire brush... ;-)

The motor is underpowered, but could be replaced by a standard motor.
It CAN be re-wired for 240v if desired - just don't forget to change
the plug. I have my eye on a surplus 2HP 240v motor, however...

All the mechanism bearings are standard parts, and all of Delta's
various attachments and accessories should fit fine. This was a major
selling point for me - being able to get a shaft bearing from the
local auto parts store 5 years from now is a paramount concern.

The power switch is mounted straight and securely, as are the decals.
The power switch is a little stiff hard to activate, however. It may
free up with use - or I may R&R it for some ajustin'.

The blade tensioning guide is probably not all that accurate, but I go
by sound anyway so it doesn't matter.

The included blade seems rather ordinary, at best - no big deal.

The wheel tires DO suck - but can be upgraded.

So, it's off to Highland Hardware for a Wood Slicer blade, a bag of
zero clearance inserts, a 28-984 riser kit, and a set of cool blocks.

Any other suggestions from the peanut gallery?

Greg G.

  #2   Report Post  
Groggy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

So I guess that the moral of the story is, if you have the knowledge (or
invest the time to learn it) you can buy a much cheaper machine and do the
final tuning yourself? Just like fettling an old plane? Who'da thunk it.

And you only paid $300, that's all? And the vibration "went away" you say?
And you probably spent less time tuning it than you would have sending it
away for replacement?

This won't do at all Greg, no sir, not at all.

And it's Chiwanese you say? Oh the horror! I guess it didn't come with the
$1.10c wheel brushes the $800 saws have then!

Ho ho ho, hee hee hee, har har har, Merry Christmas

Greg

Greg G. jotted down...
snip
Any other suggestions from the peanut gallery?



Just one - can you eliminate the runout by fitting a 5c washer?


  #3   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Groggy thus spake:

So I guess that the moral of the story is, if you have the knowledge (or
invest the time to learn it) you can buy a much cheaper machine and do the
final tuning yourself? Just like fettling an old plane? Who'da thunk it.


Apparently, perhaps I just got lucky.
I used to restore old cars, and learned to work with what ya got.

And you only paid $300, that's all? And the vibration "went away" you say?
And you probably spent less time tuning it than you would have sending it
away for replacement?


Actually, $310, plus state sales tax.
And it probably did take less time to fix it up than to hump it back
to the store 4 times for a BAD problem. And yes, the nickel stands!

This won't do at all Greg, no sir, not at all.


Say, are you making fun of me and the integrity of my report?

And it's Chiwanese you say? Oh the horror!


Yep, it's Chinese - nothing Taiwanese in it.
But still somewhat of a horror, considering unemployment figures...

I guess it didn't come with the
$1.10c wheel brushes the $800 saws have then!


Nope, but I figger an old parts washing brush or a toothbrush will do
just fine...

Ho ho ho, hee hee hee, har har har, Merry Christmas


Back at ya, Groggy. ;-)

Any other suggestions from the peanut gallery?


Just one - can you eliminate the runout by fitting a 5c washer?


I don't think that would work for a crooked wheel...

Say! Are you making fun of me again?

Greg G.

  #4   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276


Addendum:

I forgot to mention one other salient 'feature'.

The miter track in the table is a T-slot, so you CAN use your table
saw miter fixtures with the retaining washers intact - nice touch.

After the ragging I gave the PC router, I feel a little better now.
Unfortunately, adding a 5c washer won't fix the play in the plunge
router base, Groggy - only the proper sintered bronze bushings will.

;-)

Greg G.

  #5   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

SHEESH! Sounds like setting up a new Grizzly tool. Only trouble is, the
design flaw on the upper guide arm on the saw at school precludes _ever_
getting it right. Now let's hope it's Delta growing pains, and they'll
improve.

Got mine 15 years ago, and one run with Duginskie a year is all it's had.
Nickel? Wanna see a dime?

Greg G. wrote in message
...

Well, because of the 20% off sale/war that was going on between the
two Borgs, I picked up one of Delta's Chinese 14" Bandsaws - in spite
of the generally bad press it has received here. I figured if it was
that bad, I would just rebox it and return it. $300 bucks doesn't buy
much these days - or does it?


CUT




  #6   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

George thus spake:

SHEESH! Sounds like setting up a new Grizzly tool. Only trouble is, the
design flaw on the upper guide arm on the saw at school precludes _ever_
getting it right. Now let's hope it's Delta growing pains, and they'll
improve.


I am unfamiliar with that flaw. Care to elaborate?

Got mine 15 years ago, and one run with Duginskie a year is all it's had.
Nickel? Wanna see a dime?


But did you pay the 1985 equivalent of $310 for it? ;-)

I'm still working on the dime...

  #7   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price
Greg G. wrote in message
...

Well, because of the 20% off sale/war that was going on between the
two Borgs, I picked up one of Delta's Chinese 14" Bandsaws - in spite
of the generally bad press it has received here. I figured if it was
that bad, I would just rebox it and return it. $300 bucks doesn't buy
much these days - or does it? This will probably be the last shocking
review of the 2003 year - you won't believe how this unit worked out.

First of all, the shipping cartons were not smashed, crunched or
otherwise mutilated. Considering how the unit is packed, this is an
important point. Any mishandling would probably result in damage.

After unloading this thing from a pickup truck and moving it into the
shop on a hand truck - by myself - I can tell you this is one heavy
sucker. My scale said 262 pounds - you would be smart to get help
moving it. Of course, a big chuck of Chinese cast iron isn't worth
much these days unless it works.

Upon unpacking all the various bits and pieces and confirming that it
was all present and intact, I began the leisurely 2 hour job of
assembling the unit. Everything fit fine, no surprises, no drilling
out holes, no missing parts. Kerosene made short work of the minimal
amounts of goop on the machined parts.

When placing the saw itself onto the stand, I noticed that the lower
wheel had a lot of lateral runout. "Bummer", I thought, it IS a lemon
after all. So after a cursory alignment of the guides and blade
tracking, I powered up the unit and sure enough, it vibrated so bad
the table rattled against the 90d stop. My heart sunk into my shoes.

Keeping in mind that I don't like Chinese products, and generally try
to avoid them - it has gotten to the point that you just can't buy
much of anything these days without getting that damned Made in China
sticker on the box. I knew what to expect with this unit, so it was
not a surprise. But the castings, while a little rough, were not that
bad. The sheet metal, while a little sparse, does what it is supposed
to do. I was impressed to see that the blade covers were hinged, and
the bearing and guides were standard Delta parts. In fact, everything
about the unit is pretty standard. Even the huge MIC motor, which can
be wired to run on 120 or 240, is a standard baseplate and woodruff
keyed shaft design that could be replaced with ANY equivalent motor.
So, I thought, maybe I can massage this turd and make it work. My
demands for a bandsaw are not extreme - and the worst thing I might
want to do is cut down a few 10" oak logs.(!) Generally, though, most
of what I want to do is cut round tabletops and the odd bit of joinery
and specialty shaping. And for $300 bucks, I can afford to throw down
with a little post manufacturing tuning and modification.

So, with my trusty dial indicator in hand, I set about the task of
improving it's dismal performance. First, I removed the tires from
the wheels and checked lateral and radial runout. The top wheel was
pretty good at .003" radial and .004" lateral runout. The bottom
wheel, however, measured a pathetic .060" lateral and .003" radial.
It became clear where most of the vibration was coming from. So,
seeing as how Delta wouldn't get a replacement wheel here for a couple
of weeks, I decided to take matters into my own hands and true the
wheel the best I could. I caution the boys and girls in the audience
NOT to try this at home, unless very familiar with aluminum and how
easily it cracks. Slowly working around the wheel, with a dial
indicator, I trued the wheel until the runout was reduced to .006" and
decided to stop before reaching the point of diminishing returns.
Then I carefully removed any flashing from the wheels, cleaned and
replaced the tires. The poorly formed, red plastic tires that come
with this unit are bad - there is no denying this, but for a few bucks
you can replace them with better tires - I believe they are also
standard. Although they are supposed to be slightly crowned, I used a
cabinet scraper to smooth out the horrible lumps and improved their
smoothness. I then insured the motor and pulley alignment, and placed
an old dryer belt tensioning spring on the motor bracket to slightly
tension the belt. (Yea, I'm a packrat! So sue me.) Replaced the
blade, adjusted the guides, and powered up. Wow - what a difference!

I then tweaked the guide adjustment collars to eliminate play, cleaned
the bearings of excess oil, grease, and goop, and readjusted all the
guides/bearings again. I checked the tabletop for flatness and was
amazed to find that it was quite good. Diagonally left rear to right
front was .003". Right rear to left front was .006". Running my
fingers over the surface, I could tell there was a spot on the right
rear edge that the cutter had chattered when milled, and left a slight
hump on the very edge. Checking again just shy of this hump revealed
a measurement of .004" So I cut down the edge with a file and ended
up with a table flat within .003" The milling work on the table is a
little rough, primarily where the cutter head first engaged the table
and again where it began to clear. Most of this is insignificant to
woodworking - a little file work cleaned it up pretty well.

Now for the ultimate test! g I stood a (old, worn) nickel on it's
edge and powered up the saw, and low and behold - it remained
standing. It danced around slightly until up to speed, but overall,
I'm impressed that it performed this well. I grabbed an old 2x4 and
carved a sliver off the edge. There was a slight amount of lead
(skew) to the cut, as there is with most all bandsaws, but it seemed
minimal - adjusting the fence about 3/8" from front to rear of the
table seemed to take care of it. Now keep in mind that this is the
1/4" OEM blade that has very little hook. I don't know the exact
blade specs, because Delta doesn't provide any, but it appears to be
about 3-5d of tooth hook and small gullets - not a good choice for
resawing. I stood a 1x6 pine cutoff on edge and, after setting the
fence for thickness and approximate lead (I had an old MDF fence for a
router table that fit perfectly). I proceeded to shave off a 1/32"
slice of wood. The cut, although a little rough and wavy due to the
blade design, was fine. There was no burning and although the feed
rate was a little slow, IT WORKED! No problems with vibration or
guide distortion, either. Then I cut a 6" heart shape out of 7/16"
OSB, then of 3/4" MDF. Reduced a bunch of 2x4s and a 3" thick piece
of oak bar edging to firewood. No problems here either - just a nice
searing sound of steel cutting through wood.

Overall, it did a pretty good job, but I can tell that the motor is
somewhat underpowered. I feel I got my money's worth with this unit,
and although I may replace the motor and tires, and install a riser
before investing in any good blades, I am impressed with it's
performance. I will expect Delta to replace the lower wheel, however.

Overall impressions a

I love the tension arm - although there is a bit of play in the
mechanism when released. When tensioned, it is OK and the blade
tracks properly in the center of the wheels - every time. I had no
problems with this at all.

The table flatness surprised me. The finish table didn't.

The table trunions are cast iron, but could have probably used more
fasteners to the frame (there are only two). This is a primary source
of the remaining minimal vibration. The angle adjustment 'slides'
need to be deburred and the paint cleaned off to insure smooth
adjustment. The table's 90d stop should have the head ground smooth
(to remove the lettering) and possibly covered with a thin resilient
material. (Thin tape?) A slight sound is emitted here.

The frame paint is complete, and the sheet metal paint is great.

The castings are a little rough, but not in any way that matters.
There is a small void or two in some items, like the tension arm stud.

The 4" dust collection fitting is a Godsend! It is actually cast into
the frame, so there are no crappy plastic pieces to break off. It
points perpendicular to the wheels, away from the operator, so it
shouldn't take up shop space. If only it had a tire brush... ;-)

The motor is underpowered, but could be replaced by a standard motor.
It CAN be re-wired for 240v if desired - just don't forget to change
the plug. I have my eye on a surplus 2HP 240v motor, however...

All the mechanism bearings are standard parts, and all of Delta's
various attachments and accessories should fit fine. This was a major
selling point for me - being able to get a shaft bearing from the
local auto parts store 5 years from now is a paramount concern.

The power switch is mounted straight and securely, as are the decals.
The power switch is a little stiff hard to activate, however. It may
free up with use - or I may R&R it for some ajustin'.

The blade tensioning guide is probably not all that accurate, but I go
by sound anyway so it doesn't matter.

The included blade seems rather ordinary, at best - no big deal.

The wheel tires DO suck - but can be upgraded.

So, it's off to Highland Hardware for a Wood Slicer blade, a bag of
zero clearance inserts, a 28-984 riser kit, and a set of cool blocks.

Any other suggestions from the peanut gallery?

Greg G.



  #8   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price


Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.
  #9   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Hmmm I don't think so and why are you now only giving the model number
Hmmmm me thinks you didn't bother to check the prices in Canada
BTW King and Delta are the same company.With the exchange rate it's roughly
450 USD's without the tweaking and fu#king around.see the URL
http://www.rideouttool.com/
That's just one place and it is more expensive where i live.
You still could have had it bought and shipped for less.Before I go back on
the porch, kiss my pink ass.




Greg G. wrote in message
news
Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price


Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.



  #10   Report Post  
David F. Eisan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Dear Dan,

BTW King and Delta are the same company.


What have you been smoking?

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar




  #11   Report Post  
Larry C in Auburn, WA
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Were are the friggin prices on the Rideout site? I went to the site, found
a 14" (35cm?) King bandsaw
(http://www.rideouttool.com/products.asp?id=206&s=), but can't find the
price of it. If you're familiar with the company/site, could you help me
out in cracking the code?
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Dan Parrell" wrote in message
...
Hmmm I don't think so and why are you now only giving the model number
Hmmmm me thinks you didn't bother to check the prices in Canada
BTW King and Delta are the same company.With the exchange rate it's

roughly
450 USD's without the tweaking and fu#king around.see the URL
http://www.rideouttool.com/
That's just one place and it is more expensive where i live.
You still could have had it bought and shipped for less.Before I go back

on
the porch, kiss my pink ass.




Greg G. wrote in message
news
Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price


Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.




  #12   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

been smoking trout and salmon
they are King is owned by Delta
"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
Dear Dan,

BTW King and Delta are the same company.


What have you been smoking?

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar




  #13   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

go to specials
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" wrote in message
newsqkFb.171347$_M.774222@attbi_s54...
Were are the friggin prices on the Rideout site? I went to the site,

found
a 14" (35cm?) King bandsaw
(http://www.rideouttool.com/products.asp?id=206&s=), but can't find the
price of it. If you're familiar with the company/site, could you help me
out in cracking the code?
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Dan Parrell" wrote in message
...
Hmmm I don't think so and why are you now only giving the model number
Hmmmm me thinks you didn't bother to check the prices in Canada
BTW King and Delta are the same company.With the exchange rate it's

roughly
450 USD's without the tweaking and fu#king around.see the URL
http://www.rideouttool.com/
That's just one place and it is more expensive where i live.
You still could have had it bought and shipped for less.Before I go back

on
the porch, kiss my pink ass.




Greg G. wrote in message
news
Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price

Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.






  #14   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

check herehttp://www.rideouttool.com/products.asp?id=337&s=y
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" wrote in message
newsqkFb.171347$_M.774222@attbi_s54...
Were are the friggin prices on the Rideout site? I went to the site,

found
a 14" (35cm?) King bandsaw
(http://www.rideouttool.com/products.asp?id=206&s=), but can't find the
price of it. If you're familiar with the company/site, could you help me
out in cracking the code?
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Dan Parrell" wrote in message
...
Hmmm I don't think so and why are you now only giving the model number
Hmmmm me thinks you didn't bother to check the prices in Canada
BTW King and Delta are the same company.With the exchange rate it's

roughly
450 USD's without the tweaking and fu#king around.see the URL
http://www.rideouttool.com/
That's just one place and it is more expensive where i live.
You still could have had it bought and shipped for less.Before I go back

on
the porch, kiss my pink ass.




Greg G. wrote in message
news
Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price

Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.






  #15   Report Post  
David F. Eisan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Dear Dan,

BTW King and Delta are the same company.


they are King is owned by Delta


And on what misinformation are you basing this incorrect statement on?

Delta is owned by the Pentair Tools group, who also own Flex, Porter Cable,
Devlibis and a few other companies. Pentair Canada is based in Guelph,
Ontario.

One company Pentair *does not* own is King Canada. King is based in Montreal
and is a *privately* held company.

King and Delta are major competitors here in Canada.

Get your facts strait.

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
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  #16   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

check the xmas specials and "LOOK" at the 14'' delta
Greg G. wrote in message
news
Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price


Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.



  #17   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

I may be mis-informed Dave, I'll get back to you on that one
"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
Dear Dan,

BTW King and Delta are the same company.


they are King is owned by Delta


And on what misinformation are you basing this incorrect statement on?

Delta is owned by the Pentair Tools group, who also own Flex, Porter

Cable,
Devlibis and a few other companies. Pentair Canada is based in Guelph,
Ontario.

One company Pentair *does not* own is King Canada. King is based in

Montreal
and is a *privately* held company.

King and Delta are major competitors here in Canada.

Get your facts strait.

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar




  #18   Report Post  
David F. Eisan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Dan,

I may be mis-informed Dave, I'll get back to you on that one


My day job is as sales manager at one of Ontario's largest tool stores, so I
am quite sure about what I said. I know many people at Delta and several at
King Canada.

You or someone else might be speculating they are the same company because
of the similarity of some of the newer (in the last two years) King
equipment to items Delta has been making for years. When Delta abandoned
their factories in Taiwan to make their tools for a few bucks less in some
far corner of China, this left factories with product lines and no buyer. In
steps King and buys the same product Delta used to.

For example, the 37-190 (now a JT360) open stand 6" jointer looks just like
a King KC-150C.

That might be where you or someone you know got the idea from.

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar


  #19   Report Post  
Dan Parrell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

And on that note I would say that is where the confusion arose. I am going
to print your thread and take to a wise cracker,know it all hardware store
manager and have him explain to me. I can't wait to see his face.Thanks for
straightening me out on that one Dave
rgds
Dan
"David F. Eisan" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
Dan,

I may be mis-informed Dave, I'll get back to you on that one


My day job is as sales manager at one of Ontario's largest tool stores, so

I
am quite sure about what I said. I know many people at Delta and several

at
King Canada.

You or someone else might be speculating they are the same company because
of the similarity of some of the newer (in the last two years) King
equipment to items Delta has been making for years. When Delta abandoned
their factories in Taiwan to make their tools for a few bucks less in some
far corner of China, this left factories with product lines and no buyer.

In
steps King and buys the same product Delta used to.

For example, the 37-190 (now a JT360) open stand 6" jointer looks just

like
a King KC-150C.

That might be where you or someone you know got the idea from.

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
Crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar




  #20   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Dan Parrell thus spake:

Hmmm I don't think so and why are you now only giving the model number


Model numbers are quite prominently displayed in the subject line...

Hmmmm me thinks you didn't bother to check the prices in Canada


Nope, wouldn't want to send any more money to you Canucks, eh?
Besides, I bought a Ford that was assembled there - and among other
things, they even put the seat belt buckles in backwards. ;-)

KC-1433FX - 629.00 + shipping.
Looks more like a Grizzly or an OLD Delta to me.
How does that equate to $310??
Besides, there are benefits in buying locally from my neighbors.
One of these would be Instant Gratification - you know how impulsive
we Yanks are.

BTW King and Delta are the same company.With the exchange rate it's roughly
450 USD's without the tweaking and fu#king around.see the URL
http://www.rideouttool.com/


Not the same company at all - I believe King buys Delta's old worn-out
foundry setups and sells machinery similar to Delta's OLD products.
Notice the plastic 2 1/2" dust port, for example.
I COULD have bought a Grizzly G0555 for $374 + shipping, but I didn't.
Besides, the fu#king around took all of 1 hour - Big Deal. Other than
a lower wheel that was probably bent in transit, I did nothing that I
wouldn't have had to do to ANY Chiwanese saw.

That's just one place and it is more expensive where i live.
You still could have had it bought and shipped for less.Before I go back on
the porch, kiss my pink ass.


I scanned the web with that model number - old design, and an
unspecified HP motor (10amp) that could be worse than what I've got!
And does it have a TWO year warranty? Standardized parts? Universal
motor mount design?

Talk about a pig in a poke, I've never even SEEN a King, and shipping
another turd back to the great White North for another $120 wasn't in
the stars.

As far as your ass goes, I'll pass. Dude, it was a joke! I'm revving
you up. But by the same token, don't throw rocks at others decisions.


Greg G.


  #21   Report Post  
Robert Bonomi
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

For a real giggle, check out the bottom of that page, and the pricing
on the "Wavetek Clamp-on Amp Meter"


The Delta 28-274C 14" bandsaw is listed near the bottom of the right-hand
colum. at C $549. About US$400. Plus shipping. plus customs/clearance
hassles. Between the two, it easily adds another $US100-150 to the cost.

US$500-550 "to the door, in a week or two", even if it saves a couple hours
of 'fiddling', DOESN'T seem like much of a bargain, compared to the US $310
'take it home *today*' price that the original poster reported.

US$100/hr is _good_ pay for doing that 'fiddling'.





In article ,
Dan Parrell wrote:
check herehttp://www.rideouttool.com/products.asp?id=337&s=y
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" wrote in message
newsqkFb.171347$_M.774222@attbi_s54...
Were are the friggin prices on the Rideout site? I went to the site,

found
a 14" (35cm?) King bandsaw
(http://www.rideouttool.com/products.asp?id=206&s=), but can't find the
price of it. If you're familiar with the company/site, could you help me
out in cracking the code?
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Dan Parrell" wrote in message
...
Hmmm I don't think so and why are you now only giving the model number
Hmmmm me thinks you didn't bother to check the prices in Canada
BTW King and Delta are the same company.With the exchange rate it's

roughly
450 USD's without the tweaking and fu#king around.see the URL
http://www.rideouttool.com/
That's just one place and it is more expensive where i live.
You still could have had it bought and shipped for less.Before I go back

on
the porch, kiss my pink ass.




Greg G. wrote in message
news Dan Parrell thus spake:

you could have bought a delta or king in canada for that price

Hmmm... I think not - besides I live 1800 miles south of Canada...
A Delta X-5 starts at $900 US here.

Now, go back to the porch with your pink apron, please... ;-)


Greg G.







  #22   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276


Addendum:

I forgot to mention another thing.
There is a $50 rebate on these models, bringing my cost to $260 US.

Beat THAT! g


Greg G.
  #23   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Was, "Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

WD thus spake:

Too late now, you should have posted it yesterday and it would have
encouraged me to pick up their only bandsaw, a Delta 28-276.


Sorry, I forgot about it until this morning as I was sorting through a
pile of roofing material reciepts. Like you, I discovered too late
that I could have picked up a small medium duty lathe for $223.

Oh well, maybe next year...

Can someone encourage me NOT to buy a Grizzly G0514 a 19" 3hp bandsaw?
It will be use mostly for resawing, since my Crapsman cannot or
struggling to rip a 10 to 12 feet, 6/4 hard maple.


I don't think the Delta could keep up with that without a new motor.
But for my needs, it seems fine. Buy what ya need and can afford!


Greg G.
  #24   Report Post  
Brian Sullivan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Hi Greg -
Thanks for the excellent review. Can you give some more detail on
how you trued up the wheels?
Thanks/Brian


Greg wrote:
[snip]
I caution the boys and girls in the audience
NOT to try this at home, unless very familiar with aluminum and how
easily it cracks. Slowly working around the wheel, with a dial
indicator, I trued the wheel until the runout was reduced to .006" and
decided to stop before reaching the point of diminishing returns.

[snip]


  #25   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276

Brian Sullivan said:

Hi Greg -
Thanks for the excellent review. Can you give some more detail on
how you trued up the wheels?
Thanks/Brian


You're welcome.
I STILL can't believe how well it works for the $260 I've got in it.
I was looking at the Grizzly G0555 because of the bad press this unit
has received, but I am glad I got it. The only thing I would change
at this point are the crappy tires, a bigger motor and extender kit.

I called Delta and the wheels are on backorder (read: on a slow boat
from China) until MARCH. There was no way I was waiting that long to
use this thing. So...

As for the wheels, pull the tires. Check run-out with a dial
indicator - both radial and lateral. If your radial (around the
wheel/diameter) run-out is excessive, it's a problem. There is no
easy way to correct this. But the lateral run-out I corrected with
(and don't scream when you read this) judicial application of a pry
bar and pipe clamp. Go easy with it, you have to slightly OVER
correct as aluminum flexes - until it breaks. Use a straightedge to
determine which side to pull out or in, and work a little at a time.
Apply pressure at or near the spokes on the outer hub. Find the
high/low point of the error by rotating the wheel back and forth until
located. Work it out a little at a time. Don't try to do it all in
one stroke. Remember, aluminum cracks without warning, and you don't
want to destroy the bearings either. My bottom wheel was out - I used
the cast iron frame as the support. If the top wheel is out, it's
more difficult. You will probably have to mount the wheel on a shaft
in a vise and work with it. This is a neanderthal method, but it
worked for me. I would estimate that run-out on the order of .005" or
less would be smooth enough for enjoyable use.

For balancing the wheels, static balancing is sufficient. Place a rod
with a centered point on the lower side which is the exact diameter of
the center hole into the wheel and set on a table. The direction it
consistently tips is the heavy side. Use a Dremel or die grinder to
carefully remove metal from a non-critical area of the outer hub to
lighten it. Just like you would balance a lawnmower blade. Continue
until it will just about balance on the point. The wheels are
relatively low speed, so this should suffice. If you have access to
dynamic balancing equipment, so much the better.

Remember, the tires suck, and they will probably introduce some degree
of blade vibration. Highland Hardware and other vendors sell new
rubber and urethane tires. I believe they are interchangeable with
the better Delta saws. ~ $25 each.

One more thing. If you fu%# it up, don't come crying to me! g

Good Luck,

Greg G.


  #26   Report Post  
Robert Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Was, "Surprising Review - Chinese Delta 14" Bandsaw 28-206/276


Greg G. wrote in message
...
WD thus spake:

Too late now, you should have posted it yesterday and it would have
encouraged me to pick up their only bandsaw, a Delta 28-276.


Sorry, I forgot about it until this morning as I was sorting through a
pile of roofing material reciepts. Like you, I discovered too late
that I could have picked up a small medium duty lathe for $223.

Oh well, maybe next year...

Can someone encourage me NOT to buy a Grizzly G0514 a 19" 3hp bandsaw?
It will be use mostly for resawing, since my Crapsman cannot or
struggling to rip a 10 to 12 feet, 6/4 hard maple.



I live just outside Harrisburg, Pa. about 2 months ago I drove up to
Muncy to get the 17" Grizzly Band saw. If you get a chance you have to get
to one of their show rooms. Man that place is packed full of machinery. They
have all their bandsaws lined up in a row. And I was very very very tempted
to go with the 19" instead of the 17". I was actually tempted to go with the
16" and the cast iron wheels but, I needed the extra depth of cut. I was
some what concerned about the aluminum wheels on the 17" but I decided to
give it a try, so I ended up with the 17".
Took it home, uncrated it, wiped off all the cosmoline. Assembled it,
stuck a 220 plug on the end of it. Put a 1" wide 2tpi blade on it, line up
the rip fence straight with the miter slot. Stuck a 4' long rough cut oak
2x8 on edge against the fence. Oops the board had a bow, so I stuck my 6ft.
level against the fence and held the board against that, so both its ends
hit the level. Cut about 1/4" off at the end, 3/4 off at the middle. The
thing cut like butter, pushed as fast as I was comfortable with. No
problems.
After I got the first side straight, I laid that down on the table and
took a cut along the 2" way just to straighten things up. Then stood it back
up on the 2" width, set the fence to 13/16 and cut the board. The blade
seemed to cut in toward the fence about 1/16 so I checked the blade guides
again. (I didn't get the ball bearing guides, I liked the ones that came on
the saw better). I adjusted the guides, and cut the rest of the 2x8 into
13/16 strips. It cut great and very straight. I made a sled for it, and
actually use it to cut basket handle blanks, (1x3/16x48 long), out of oak,
ash, and hickory that I cut off my wood lot with no problems at all. I
normally use 4ft. long logs, but I have rigged up supports so I can cut
longer logs also. They have a horizontal saw mill also, but it's way past my
budget.
Also I got a couple 1/8" wide blades for it, and they are great for
cutting stuff I used to have to use the scroll saw for.
As far as I could tell the 19" is built identical to the 17" so I am
sure you will be very happy with it. I know a number of people don't like
Grizzly, but I haven't had any trouble with anything I have gotten from
them. I have been a machinist for 26 years, and figure if anything is to far
off, I can just make a new part. I have yet to have to do that with any
machine from Grizzly. Now if you want to talk Crapsman, that's a whole
nuther story. I had a Crapsman wood lathe, that I milled a complete new head
stock for. What ever **** metal they made it out off, the bearings kept
loosing up. I kept boring out the hole larger and larger and getting bigger
bearings for in it. I even made a steel bushing that I started pressing the
bearings into. But the base metal kept wearing big. So I finally just made a
new headstock.
Anyway have fun with your new bandsaw.


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