In article ,
says...

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 13:40:58 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 14/12/2019 13:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 11:24:31 +0000, Tim+ wrote:


How about average speed cameras ? Now appearing on an A road near you


TomTom Go does those as well and shows your average speed over the
section

Interesting, but of little practical use surely ? So you enter a
monitored stretch of road do 10 mph over the limit for a bit, and then
realise you have to finish the last mile 10mph *under* the limit ?
(Unless you deploy your revolving number plate mechanism to **** with the
5-0 ?) ?

Which part of "shows your average speed over the section" do
you not understand?

Just slow down until the average speed indication agrees with
the speed limit.


--

Terry

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 14/12/2019 11:26, Richard wrote:
On 13/12/2019 19:23, ARW wrote:
On 13/12/2019 18:27, Andrew wrote:
On 13/12/2019 12:08, George Miles wrote:
I'm now at 9 points on my driving licence,
what gadgets and apps are there to help me avoid another speed
camera?

An audible alert or a big red light please

[george]

A drawing pin inside your right shoe ? :-)

I speed MOST the time.

So do I.


The OP must be unlucky to have been caught 3 times.


You drive fast and think, he drives fast.

I am not doing too badly ATM. A clean license for a change.

Yeah, me too and a significantly cheaper compulsory insurance too.

I decided that it was stupid to be paying $350 class money when
caught. And the worst of our cops can get you well before the cop
car is even visible.

I accept a that a speeding ticket every couple of years goes with job (I
do the mileage).

On 14/12/2019 23:48, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 13:40:58 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 14/12/2019 13:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 11:24:31 +0000, Tim+ wrote:


How about average speed cameras ? Now appearing on an A road near you


TomTom Go does those as well and shows your average speed over the
section

Interesting, but of little practical use surely ? So you enter a
monitored stretch of road do 10 mph over the limit for a bit, and then
realise you have to finish the last mile 10mph *under* the limit ?
(Unless you deploy your revolving number plate mechanism to **** with the
5-0 ?) ?

Which part of "shows your average speed over the section" do
you not understand?

All of it, apparently.


Just slow down until the average speed indication agrees with
the speed limit.

On Saturday, 14 December 2019 23:44:02 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 72e461f0-83c3-4057-998c-
, says...

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was one of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android and is "free". It has several speed warning options including allowing a small overspeed.

In reality, I find my car showing 62.5 is reported as 59.9 on satnav - minor variations but consistently pretty close. (No motorways nor any dual carriageways at all within twenty miles of home.)

Speedometers always read high. A good check of a Satnav's
accuracy is to compare the speed shown with those roadside
radar signs you encounter - usually on entering a 30 limit.

My Garmin is always bang on.

Yes - I know. Given that is the case, I was actually pleased as it means one speed control control "click" (2.5 mph) over limit (as displayed on speedo) takes me to actual speed limit (as displayed on satnav) to within a pretty tight margin.

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 11:53:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Yeah, me too

You don't give up easily, eh, you senile pest from Oz? LOL Even if you never
get a single feedback in a thread! LOL

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a Female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from from you boring
them to death."
MID:

On 13/12/2019 12:08, George Miles wrote:
I'm now at 9 points on my driving licence,
what gadgets and apps are there to help me avoid another speed camera?

They are called eyes. You have two of them on the front of your face.
You should view speed traps and cameras as just another road hazard.

An audible alert or a big red light please

[george]
Various GPS devices can be programmed to warn of known speed camera
locations but if you don't keep your eyes open when driving you will
still be caught by the mobile units in lay-bys and motorway bridges.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 14/12/2019 09:15, Muddymike wrote:
On 13/12/2019 12:08, George Miles wrote:
I'm now at 9 points on my driving licence,
whatÂ* gadgets and apps are there to help me avoid another speed camera?

An audible alert or a big red light please

[george]

I used to do high mileage and avoided speeding fines by not speeding!
The use of cruise control set to whatever the prevailing limit was
helped greatly.

Mike
I'd have thought that getting caught three times for speeding would tell
the driver they're not competent to speed.

On 15/12/2019 14:55, mm0fmf wrote:
On 14/12/2019 09:15, Muddymike wrote:
On 13/12/2019 12:08, George Miles wrote:
I'm now at 9 points on my driving licence,
whatÂ* gadgets and apps are there to help me avoid another speed camera?

An audible alert or a big red light please

[george]

I used to do high mileage and avoided speeding fines by not speeding!
The use of cruise control set to whatever the prevailing limit was
helped greatly.

Mike
I'd have thought that getting caught three times for speeding would tell
the driver they're not competent to speed.



That's three times in three years.

Hence the nine points and is bad luck.

I have usually spread my speeding tickets out over my 30 years of driving.

I once was on 9 points. I was so sure that I could have just told the
magistrate I needed my license for work and they would have allowed me
to drive I kept on speeding.



--
Adam

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was one of
the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android and is "free".
It has several speed warning options including allowing a small
overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google Maps, and
(b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed limits,
total time driving, total distance covered, and direction. Admittedly
I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back (although
it does not show the limit)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:13:34 AM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/12/2019 21:51, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article ,
Robin wrote:

I suspect you mean "when a person relies on the speed camera alert
feature despite the seller making it abundantly clear it may not be 100%
right, and that it's always the driver's responsibility to check the
speed limit for the road". I rather doubt a UK court would hold that
such a term is unreasonable. Speed limits change and no system of
updating can be expected to be 100% perfect and prompt.

particularly on 'Smart' motorways where the spped limit can be dropped as
low as 20mph.

If someone can miss seeing the very clear illuminated signs on
a motorway, the sooner they lose (or surrender) their licence
the better!

Actually I did.

I was in the fast lane and there were two walls of artics on my left and
NO speed limit signs on the central reservation.

Fortunatly i guessed from other drivers behaviour..


--
€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

Fast lane ? W.T.F. Read the Highway Code

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was one
of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android and is
"free". It has several speed warning options including allowing a
small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed
limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and direction.
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back (although
it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks. Probably as long as it
*hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE WeGo, which is
why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there was a lot
of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's still not
available, then it speaks volumes about Googles relationship with it's
customers). There were a few "apps" that were supposed to run in parallel
with Google Maps and overdraw the speed limit from their database. Even
if they had worked (they didn't) none of them had a UK database. Also, I
have learned through experience to be wary of "apps" that require
anything of Google. I've had a couple simply stop working after Google
changed Android to remove certain features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so far it
falls short for me.

Works fine for me except for the lack of a speed limit display and pings
when you exceed that.

On 16/12/2019 10:11, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was one
of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android and is
"free". It has several speed warning options including allowing a
small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed
limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and direction.
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back (although
it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks.

Not that I was aware - at least in the bundled navigation app on Android
phones, live speed readout only appeared a few months ago when they
added the "+" sign icon for reporting blockages etc.

(having said that, its not always clear exactly which app we are calling
google maps - since the maps and navigation apps on the phone seem
subtly different)

Probably as long as it
*hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE WeGo, which is
why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there was a lot
of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's still not
available, then it speaks volumes about Googles relationship with it's
customers). There were a few "apps" that were supposed to run in parallel
with Google Maps and overdraw the speed limit from their database. Even
if they had worked (they didn't) none of them had a UK database. Also, I
have learned through experience to be wary of "apps" that require
anything of Google. I've had a couple simply stop working after Google
changed Android to remove certain features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so far it
falls short for me.

I find as an infrequent user, its "ok"... For years I used a dedicated
Tomtom Go 700 - In its heyday it was better than using my phone for
navigation which felt rather "austere" in comparison. With time the
position has reversed though - the phone version faster and includes
real time navigation and feedback that my old non connected tomtom does
not, and the dedicated device now has too little storage[1] for the
latest map updates.

Note however I have never bothered adding a standalone navigation app to
the phone - which may well be better.

[1] One of the ironies being when I chose the Tomtom, I went for the
version with the built in 2.5GB hard drive, since I figured the maps
would ultimately outgrow the capacity of the SD card versions (at the
time, a *big* SD card was about 256MB) :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:15:40 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was
one of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android and
is "free". It has several speed warning options including allowing a
small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed
limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and direction.
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back
(although it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks. Probably as long as it
*hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE WeGo, which is
why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there was a
lot of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's still
not available, then it speaks volumes about Googles relationship with
it's customers). There were a few "apps" that were supposed to run in
parallel with Google Maps and overdraw the speed limit from their
database. Even if they had worked (they didn't) none of them had a UK
database. Also, I have learned through experience to be wary of "apps"
that require anything of Google. I've had a couple simply stop working
after Google changed Android to remove certain features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so far it
falls short for me.

Works fine for me except for the lack of a speed limit display and pings
when you exceed that.

I didn't say it didn't work. But I want a speed limit display at all
times, which despite years of people bugging Google for, still isn't
there.

Meanwhile, HERE maps has had it since I first used it - 6 years ago. Job
done.

I find the audible pings quite erratic and the speed limit display
is much too small on a smartphone.

One of my reservations about Android Auto is it's insistence on using
only Google Maps for it's navigation. Which (passim) doesn't fit with my
needs.

That said, you'd have to go a long, long, long way to find a sat nav/app
worse than the inbuilt Citroen one - especially if you are using it to
get there ....

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:34:46 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:15:40 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was
one of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android
and is "free". It has several speed warning options including
allowing a small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google
Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed
limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and direction.
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back
(although it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks. Probably as long as it
*hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE WeGo, which
is why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there was a
lot of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's
still not available, then it speaks volumes about Googles
relationship with it's customers). There were a few "apps" that were
supposed to run in parallel with Google Maps and overdraw the speed
limit from their database. Even if they had worked (they didn't) none
of them had a UK database. Also, I have learned through experience to
be wary of "apps" that require anything of Google. I've had a couple
simply stop working after Google changed Android to remove certain
features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so far
it falls short for me.

Works fine for me except for the lack of a speed limit display and
pings when you exceed that.

I didn't say it didn't work. But I want a speed limit display at all
times, which despite years of people bugging Google for, still isn't
there.

Meanwhile, HERE maps has had it since I first used it - 6 years ago.
Job done.

I find the audible pings quite erratic and the speed limit display is
much too small on a smartphone.

*Shrug* No problem on mine.

Most of the time it's bleeding obvious what the speed limit is - really
you shouldn't need any assistance at all beyond your knowledge of the
highway code. However, despite all the official "guidance"[1] there are
still roads and situations where you cannot discern the speed limit, and
any evidence you might need to prove that to defence a speeding charge
will be long gone. Hence it's nice to be able to check.

[1]I've been told a few times that no roads have a change of speed limit
of more than 10mph, but around me there are a few 60-30 and 50- roads.

Ideally if the app "pinged" on change of limit ...

Its better to have it ping when your current speed is x faster than the
current limit
because as you say most are aware of the current speed limit most of the
time and
what you need is to be told when you have missed a speed ;limit change. And
that also means that you dont need to try and read the tiny current speed
limit
display while driving either.

On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:28:00 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote:

Most of the time it's bleeding obvious what the speed limit is - really
you shouldn't need any assistance at all beyond your knowledge of the
highway code.

Agreed. And if the speed limit isn't what the default should be for a
given section of road there should be small repeator signs to tell
you what the limit really is. Note the word "should", they are often
very far apart. For non-motorways if there are street lights it's 30.
But can you tell the difference between a "street light" that
triggers a 30 limit or a "footway light" that doesn't...

However, despite all the official "guidance"[1] there are still roads
and situations where you cannot discern the speed limit, and any
evidence you might need to prove that to defence a speeding charge
will be long gone.

Dashcam... but if one is doing more than about half a dozen hours
driving per week it'll either need a big card or you swapping cards
to stop the "evidence" being over written in the two weeks or longer
that ticket takes to arrive.

[1]I've been told a few times that no roads have a change of speed limit
of more than 10mph, but around me there are a few 60-30 and 50- roads.

60 30 happens at almost every rural road entering a village or
town.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:21:53 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote:

I also think it can get speed wrong where the limit is implied by street
lighting.

I've never managed to work up the enthuasium to try an untangle
street lights, speed limits and signage.

Near Middleton-in-Teesdale there is a section of lit single
carriageway "B" road. There are no both sides of the road speed
limit/NSL signs on entry/exit. There are no small repeator signs. The
footway is only on one side of the road, the lights are on the other.


What is the speed limit and why?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 16/12/2019 21:29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:21:53 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote:

I also think it can get speed wrong where the limit is implied by street
lighting.

I've never managed to work up the enthuasium to try an untangle
street lights, speed limits and signage.

Near Middleton-in-Teesdale there is a section of lit single
carriageway "B" road. There are no both sides of the road speed
limit/NSL signs on entry/exit. There are no small repeator signs. The
footway is only on one side of the road, the lights are on the other.


What is the speed limit and why?


30 mph if the lights are less than 200 yards apart

because

a. s.82 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 provides that " a road is a
restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if ... in
England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting
furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart"; and

b. s.81 provides that "It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a
motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour."

The only exception I can think of is where the relevant traffic
authority has directed otherwise but failed to put up signs to that
effect. But you'd have to ask yourself, "are you feeling that lucky?
and if so confident you'd find the TRO to that effect?"

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 16/12/2019 21:29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:21:53 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote:

I also think it can get speed wrong where the limit is implied by street
lighting.

I've never managed to work up the enthuasium to try an untangle
street lights, speed limits and signage.

Near Middleton-in-Teesdale there is a section of lit single
carriageway "B" road. There are no both sides of the road speed
limit/NSL signs on entry/exit. There are no small repeator signs. The
footway is only on one side of the road, the lights are on the other.


What is the speed limit and why?


Strictly, 30mph cos its lit.

The only useful thing I got from 'speed awareness' course.

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On Monday, 16 December 2019 17:40:30 UTC, % wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:34:46 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:15:40 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was
one of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android
and is "free". It has several speed warning options including
allowing a small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google
Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed
limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and direction..
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back
(although it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks. Probably as long as it
*hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE WeGo, which
is why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there was a
lot of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's
still not available, then it speaks volumes about Googles
relationship with it's customers). There were a few "apps" that were
supposed to run in parallel with Google Maps and overdraw the speed
limit from their database. Even if they had worked (they didn't) none
of them had a UK database. Also, I have learned through experience to
be wary of "apps" that require anything of Google. I've had a couple
simply stop working after Google changed Android to remove certain
features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so far
it falls short for me.

Works fine for me except for the lack of a speed limit display and
pings when you exceed that.

I didn't say it didn't work. But I want a speed limit display at all
times, which despite years of people bugging Google for, still isn't
there.

Meanwhile, HERE maps has had it since I first used it - 6 years ago.
Job done.

I find the audible pings quite erratic and the speed limit display is
much too small on a smartphone.

*Shrug* No problem on mine.

Most of the time it's bleeding obvious what the speed limit is - really
you shouldn't need any assistance at all beyond your knowledge of the
highway code. However, despite all the official "guidance"[1] there are
still roads and situations where you cannot discern the speed limit, and
any evidence you might need to prove that to defence a speeding charge
will be long gone. Hence it's nice to be able to check.

[1]I've been told a few times that no roads have a change of speed limit
of more than 10mph, but around me there are a few 60-30 and 50- roads..

Ideally if the app "pinged" on change of limit ...

Its better to have it ping when your current speed is x faster than the
current limit
because as you say most are aware of the current speed limit most of the
time and
what you need is to be told when you have missed a speed ;limit change. And
that also means that you dont need to try and read the tiny current speed
limit
display while driving either.

I recently bought a fairly cheap tablet to use as a satnav - with HERE. 7 inch screen makes it much easier to read than (most) phones. It has a very cheap SIM so can work on its own - uses very little data so long as updates to everything are done on wifi.

Also means I have a larger screen available for other purposes wherever I go. And battery lasts a long time without needing to plug it in (my phone uses its charge up all too quickly when used as a satnav).

"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 16 December 2019 17:40:30 UTC, % wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:34:46 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:15:40 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it
was
one of the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android
and is "free". It has several speed warning options including
allowing a small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google
Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing
speed
limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and
direction.
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back
(although it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks. Probably as long as
it
*hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE WeGo, which
is why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there was
a
lot of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's
still not available, then it speaks volumes about Googles
relationship with it's customers). There were a few "apps" that
were
supposed to run in parallel with Google Maps and overdraw the speed
limit from their database. Even if they had worked (they didn't)
none
of them had a UK database. Also, I have learned through experience
to
be wary of "apps" that require anything of Google. I've had a
couple
simply stop working after Google changed Android to remove certain
features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so
far
it falls short for me.

Works fine for me except for the lack of a speed limit display and
pings when you exceed that.

I didn't say it didn't work. But I want a speed limit display at all
times, which despite years of people bugging Google for, still isn't
there.

Meanwhile, HERE maps has had it since I first used it - 6 years ago.
Job done.

I find the audible pings quite erratic and the speed limit display is
much too small on a smartphone.

*Shrug* No problem on mine.

Most of the time it's bleeding obvious what the speed limit is - really
you shouldn't need any assistance at all beyond your knowledge of the
highway code. However, despite all the official "guidance"[1] there are
still roads and situations where you cannot discern the speed limit,
and
any evidence you might need to prove that to defence a speeding charge
will be long gone. Hence it's nice to be able to check.

[1]I've been told a few times that no roads have a change of speed
limit
of more than 10mph, but around me there are a few 60-30 and 50-
roads.

Ideally if the app "pinged" on change of limit ...

Its better to have it ping when your current speed is x faster than the
current limit
because as you say most are aware of the current speed limit most of the
time and
what you need is to be told when you have missed a speed ;limit change.
And
that also means that you dont need to try and read the tiny current
speed
limit
display while driving either.

I recently bought a fairly cheap tablet to use as a satnav

I already have a 14 inch one, but much prefer it pigs when
I have exceeded the speed limit by the amount I specify
instead of having to look at any screen when driving.

with HERE. 7 inch screen makes it much
easier to read than (most) phones.

Sire but its very undesirable to look at any screen when driving.

It has a very cheap SIM so can work on its own - uses very
little data so long as updates to everything are done on wifi.

Yeah I use google maps on my phone most saturdays and
dont use anything like my 1GB of data a month with me
using my facebook garage sale group actively every saturday.

Also means I have a larger screen available
for other purposes wherever I go.

I dont use the screen at all when navigating.
Use the voice directions.

And battery lasts a long time without needing
to plug it in (my phone uses its charge up all
too quickly when used as a satnav).

My phone is fine as long as I start the garage sale
run with it charged and thats with me on the phone
to my mate for hours during the run too. Even all day
satnav runs are fun, just have a charging cable for the
most extreme long distance trips.

On 16/12/2019 22:37, Robin wrote:
On 16/12/2019 21:29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:21:53 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote:

I also think it can get speed wrong where the limit is implied by street
lighting.

I've never managed to work up the enthuasium to try an untangle
street lights, speed limits and signage.

Near Middleton-in-Teesdale there is a section of lit single
carriageway "B" road. There are no both sides of the road speed
limit/NSL signs on entry/exit. There are no small repeator signs. The
footway is only on one side of the road, the lights are on the other.


What is the speed limit and why?


30 mph if the lights are less than 200 yards apart

because

a.Â*Â*Â* s.82 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 provides that " a road is a
restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if ... in
England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting
furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart"; and

b.Â*Â*Â* s.81 provides that "It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a
motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour."

The only exception I can think of is where the relevant traffic
authority has directed otherwise but failed to put up signs to that
effect.Â* But you'd have to ask yourself, "are you feeling that lucky?
and if so confident you'd find the TRO to that effect?"


PS

I forgot the question "what's 'a system of street lighting'?" AIUI
there's no definition for the purposes of the Act but it's generally
taken to mean 3 or more lights spaced as defined. The Traffic Signs
regulations definition includes "lit by electricity, provided
for the purposes of illuminating the road". I don't know any authority
for arguing that applies for the purpose of the Act. But even if it
does, "road" in the 1984 Act means any highway or other road to which
the public has access. A highway includes any footways. So eg lights
the parish council put over a footway count as much as "proper" lamps
over the road.





--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/12/2019 09:19, Robin wrote:
On 16/12/2019 22:37, Robin wrote:
On 16/12/2019 21:29, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 08:21:53 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google wrote:

I also think it can get speed wrong where the limit is implied by
street
lighting.

I've never managed to work up the enthuasium to try an untangle
street lights, speed limits and signage.

Near Middleton-in-Teesdale there is a section of lit single
carriageway "B" road. There are no both sides of the road speed
limit/NSL signs on entry/exit. There are no small repeator signs. The
footway is only on one side of the road, the lights are on the other.


What is the speed limit and why?


30 mph if the lights are less than 200 yards apart

because

a.Â*Â*Â* s.82 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 provides that " a road is
a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if ... in
England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting
furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart"; and

b.Â*Â*Â* s.81 provides that "It shall not be lawful for a person to drive
a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per
hour."

The only exception I can think of is where the relevant traffic
authority has directed otherwise but failed to put up signs to that
effect.Â* But you'd have to ask yourself, "are you feeling that lucky?
and if so confident you'd find the TRO to that effect?"


PS

I forgot the question "what's 'a system of street lighting'?" AIUI
there's no definition for the purposes of the Act but it's generally
taken to mean 3 or more lights spaced as defined.Â* The Traffic Signs
regulations definition includes "lit by electricity, provided
for the purposes of illuminating the road". I don't know any authority
for arguing that applies for the purpose of the Act.Â* But even if it
does, "road" in the 1984 Act means any highway or other road to which
the public has access.Â* A highway includes any footways. So eg lights
the parish council put over a footway count as much as "proper" lamps
over the road.


Indeed. Ther is a very ambiguous strectch of roead newr where I live,
which has one or two street lights in all, has houses and a green, and
yet is I think classed as unlimited (60mph)



shows the exit from the limited section.

And yet the village itself extends a mile or two plus beyond that. With
a lot of residential stuff on both sides...









--
€œProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,€�

€“ Ludwig von Mises

On 16/12/2019 21:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 13:28:00 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote:

Most of the time it's bleeding obvious what the speed limit is - really
you shouldn't need any assistance at all beyond your knowledge of the
highway code.

Agreed. And if the speed limit isn't what the default should be for a
given section of road there should be small repeator signs to tell
you what the limit really is. Note the word "should", they are often
very far apart. For non-motorways if there are street lights it's 30.
But can you tell the difference between a "street light" that
triggers a 30 limit or a "footway light" that doesn't...

However, despite all the official "guidance"[1] there are still roads
and situations where you cannot discern the speed limit, and any
evidence you might need to prove that to defence a speeding charge
will be long gone.

Dashcam... but if one is doing more than about half a dozen hours
driving per week it'll either need a big card or you swapping cards
to stop the "evidence" being over written in the two weeks or longer
that ticket takes to arrive.

[1]I've been told a few times that no roads have a change of speed limit
of more than 10mph, but around me there are a few 60-30 and 50- roads.

60 30 happens at almost every rural road entering a village or
town.


Not in Warwickshire, where you are more likely to come across 504030
or 5030.

The A426/A423 Dunchurch to Banbury is 50mph through out, save for the
1.2 mile Southam Bypass (NSL), a smudge of 40 as you approach Southam
from the south, and the only 603060 interface is at the roundaboiut
where the A423 meets the A425 east. This is despite passing through no
major settlements.

There are two locations where a short stretch of 40mph might concentrate
the mind (a crossroads partially hidden by a humped bridge, and another
crossroads with relatively high crossing and turning traffic), but the
one size fits all "50 is the new NSL" policy has bugger all to do with
addressing real safety issues.

On 15/12/2019 23:10, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it was one of
the few that works almost identically on IOS and Android and is "free".
It has several speed warning options including allowing a small
overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike Google Maps, and
(b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing speed limits,
total time driving, total distance covered, and direction. Admittedly
I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back (although
it does not show the limit)


WASE shows the limit.


The Medway Handyman

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 07:10:30 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


And has ****ed UI.

NOBODY and NOTHING could be as ****ed up as you are, senile Rodent!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:28:26 +1100, % wrote:

"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 16 December 2019 17:40:30 UTC, % wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:34:46 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 23:15:40 +1100, % wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2019 20:54, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:33:28 -0800, polygonum_on_google wrote:

And Here We Go is my favoured satnav app - largely because it
was one of the few that works almost identically on IOS and
Android and is "free". It has several speed warning options
including allowing a small overspeed.

I like it because (a) it has speed limit display, unlike
Google Maps,
and (b) it has a "driving mode" which just sits there showing
speed limits, total time driving, total distance covered, and
direction.
Admittedly I've not checked the market recently ...

Google maps added a real time speed display a short while back
(although it does not show the limit)

Oh it's had real time speed display for yonks. Probably as long
as it *hasn't* had a "current speed limit" display (like HERE
WeGo, which is why I use HWG over Google).

I did lurk on the Google forums about 4-5 years ago - and there
was a
lot of calls for a speed limit display then. (If as you say it's
still not available, then it speaks volumes about Googles
relationship with it's customers). There were a few "apps" that
were supposed to run in parallel with Google Maps and overdraw
the speed limit from their database. Even if they had worked
(they didn't) none of them had a UK database. Also, I have
learned through experience to be wary of "apps" that require
anything of Google. I've had a couple simply stop working after
Google changed Android to remove certain features.

Google Maps is OK on the desktop and for non-driving use. But so
far it falls short for me.

Works fine for me except for the lack of a speed limit display
and pings when you exceed that.

I didn't say it didn't work. But I want a speed limit display at
all times, which despite years of people bugging Google for, still
isn't there.

Meanwhile, HERE maps has had it since I first used it - 6 years
ago.
Job done.

I find the audible pings quite erratic and the speed limit display
is much too small on a smartphone.

*Shrug* No problem on mine.

Most of the time it's bleeding obvious what the speed limit is -
really you shouldn't need any assistance at all beyond your
knowledge of the highway code. However, despite all the official
"guidance"[1] there are still roads and situations where you cannot
discern the speed limit, and any evidence you might need to prove
that to defence a speeding charge will be long gone. Hence it's nice
to be able to check.

[1]I've been told a few times that no roads have a change of speed
limit of more than 10mph, but around me there are a few 60-30 and
50- roads.

Ideally if the app "pinged" on change of limit ...

Its better to have it ping when your current speed is x faster than
the current limit because as you say most are aware of the current
speed limit most of the time and what you need is to be told when you
have missed a speed ;limit change. And that also means that you dont
need to try and read the tiny current speed limit display while
driving either.

I recently bought a fairly cheap tablet to use as a satnav

I already have a 14 inch one, but much prefer it pigs when I have
exceeded the speed limit by the amount I specify instead of having to
look at any screen when driving.

with HERE. 7 inch screen makes it much easier to read than (most)
phones.

Sire but its very undesirable to look at any screen when driving.

It has a very cheap SIM so can work on its own - uses very little data
so long as updates to everything are done on wifi.

Yeah I use google maps on my phone most saturdays and dont use anything
like my 1GB of data a month with me using my facebook garage sale group
actively every saturday.

Also means I have a larger screen available
for other purposes wherever I go.

I dont use the screen at all when navigating.
Use the voice directions.

And battery lasts a long time without needing to plug it in (my phone
uses its charge up all too quickly when used as a satnav).

My phone is fine as long as I start the garage sale run with it charged
and thats with me on the phone to my mate for hours during the run too.
Even all day satnav runs are fine, just have a charging cable for the
most extreme long distance trips.

Either way, with both your opposing attitudes, it's
clear the future of cars should leave the gizmos
up to the owner, and just provide an interface.

But that option is gone now that the EU has mandated
that all cars will have to have the driver deliberately override
the local speed limit if they want to exceed the speed limit.

Its less clear if the UK when out of the EU will also require
that in new cars and whether cars used outside the EU will
be able to disable that mandatory requirement. Yes, it would
be possible to that by location with the system using the GPS
to see if the car is in a EU country or not.

Having had my car for nearly 4 years, I would dump
all the ICE and satnav ****, and just have the screen
connect to whatever device/software I like to use.

I'd go the other way, drive with and adaptive cruise
control on all the time and have some mechanism
whereby you can supply the car cruise control with
the speed limit it should be following.

Currently the best of the car systems do read roadside
signs for the current speed limit, but none currently
use a speed limit database like the satnav apps do.

And I'd like to go even further. I want the cruise control
to run the car at x above the current speed limit, but in
a few places where the local country cop is known to hide
in the undergrowth off the road and catch people with his
car radar, have the car go thru there at the speed limit.
If the car system could have the speed to keep the car
at externally supplied, I could do my own smartphone
app for that rogue cop situation.

It was clear the car manufacturers are living up their own
arses when they tried to flog me an internet subscriber module
for the car at £40/month. Even as he explained, the salesman
said "of course, you could just use your phone for free".

And no car manufacturer will ever be able
to do as comprehensive a system as google
maps with its street view and the use of mobile
phone base traffic to work out where there is
traffic congestion and its silly to even try.

Although they have crippled the cars system to prevent it
being tethered. Not that it matters, since I'm not using anything
that needs updating - certainly not the sat nav (which they want
extra £££s for on top of the connection subscription).