I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?

Salt?

On 21/06/2019 10:45, newshound wrote:
On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea
gravel on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated
- allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds
left in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any
more. Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic
type - which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's
not what I want!

Any bright ideas?

Salt?

Which I would probably apply as the largest available granules, maybe
lightly forked/raked in, rather than by "watering". To provide a sort of
slow release.

On 21/06/2019 10:45, newshound wrote:
On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea
gravel on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated
- allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds
left in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any
more. Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic
type - which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's
not what I want!

Any bright ideas?

Salt?

My neighbour, a retired garage owner, still does occasinal
body repairs for people and emptied out his spraycan full
of gunwash thinners onto his front lawn a few years ago.
(To annoy his wife I think).

A dead patch duly appeared about 9 inches in diameter and nothing
has ever grown there, not even weeds.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel on
top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal dose
of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it weed-free
for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated - allowing a
lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be able
to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left in from
growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more. Most of the
weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type - which kill
existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what I want!

Beware also of soil getting into the gravel, above the still-intact weed
membrane, allowing weeds to grow *above* the membrane.

Our house has a *lot* of fairly deep 1/2" gravel for the drive, and it is
covered in weeds. We've tried hoeing them off, and when I've pulled up
weeds, they have had very shallow roots embedded in the gravel but not going
through the membrane to the soil underneath. The gravel is a confounded
nuisance, because it makes it *very* difficult to wheel the garden-waste bin
to the garden where it is needed, and likewise for the lawn mower. Both
start to dig into the gravel almost as soon as they go from paving
stones/tarmac onto the gravel, and quickly end up buried up to their axles
in gravel.

On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I tend to find that over time enough organic matter accumulates (fallen
leaves etc) in the gravel to support weed growth anyway.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?

I was under the impression that if you cover a patch with something
totally light proof for a few months it will kill off pretty much
anything. Perhaps a layer of old carpet.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 21 June 2019 10:16:07 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?


Salt. Almost as good as sodium chlorate.
Obtainable cheaply for de-icing driveways.
Or even free for the dishonest.

You must dissolve it (strong solution) and water the ground, don't throw it down dry. Ineffective if you don't.

On Friday, 21 June 2019 10:16:07 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?

Gravel is a pain in the bum.
I have blocks, only slightly better due to the weed problem. And ants.
Plus they fade & look like sh14 afer a while
The only benefit is they can be taken up and put back.

Go for tarmac or printed concrete.

Bleach?
To be honest all the people I know with gravel are taking it up and paving,
as many have small children and falling on gravel can cut quite badly too.
Also if its raining a lot it tends to all end up downhill, and indeed if a
driveway it ends up on the footway causing a hazard and losing it all.
I don't think its used much these days due to the weed aspect alone.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more. Most
of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type - which kill
existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what I want!

Any bright ideas?

Salt?

On 21/06/2019 13:20, Chris Hogg wrote:


I don't think there is a perfect solution.

Apart from conrete?

On 21 Jun 2019, newshound wrote
(in articleSt6dnaTjr5ufZ5HAnZ2dnUU78S1QAAAA@brightvie w.co.uk):

On 21/06/2019 13:20, Chris Hogg wrote:


I don't think there is a perfect solution.
Apart from conrete?

You could try the application of a Flame Gun. Works OK for me on the gravel
patch in my front garden. Available from eBay for about £8 plus £4 for the
gas cartridges.

Peter

On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.


Matting is pointless . Weeds do not grow up from underneath after the
initial laying. They get carried in along with soil in the wind and
rain., And on the cars if its a drive


I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?

you can make sodium chlorate by boiling sodium hypochlorite aka bleach


I agree is is the best 'desert storm' type 'kill everything forever'
weedkiller

But I think the answer is to regard gravel as not that permanent - I am
redoing mine after about 16 yeas - its very bad where cars have dropped
mud, OK in places where it was deep and cars haven't been.

And thats the point. What caused the weeds is nothing to do with
membranes. It is soil etc carried onto the gravel where it forms a great
place for windblown weedseeds to get their feet down. That soil wont be
chlorated so it wont stope the weeds. Alll that works is removing the
weeds and the soil with them and regular 'path clear' or chorate


I am going to try sieving the soil out & removing the weeds washing and
and reusing it. Gravel is expensive. And so are minidiggers

My drive is in total about 30 tonnes worth




--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On 21/06/2019 11:34, Andrew wrote:
On 21/06/2019 10:45, newshound wrote:
On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea
gravel on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated
- allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds
left in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any
more. Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic
type - which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But
that's not what I want!

Any bright ideas?

Salt?

My neighbour, a retired garage owner, still does occasinal
body repairs for people and emptied out his spraycan full
of gunwash thinners onto his front lawn a few years ago.
(To annoy his wife I think).

A dead patch duly appeared about 9 inches in diameter and nothing
has ever grown there, not even weeds.

diesel will do that for about 5 years
DAMHIKT


--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 21/06/2019 11:58, NY wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea
gravel on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated
- allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds
left in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any
more. Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic
type - which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's
not what I want!

Beware also of soil getting into the gravel, above the still-intact weed
membrane, allowing weeds to grow *above* the membrane.

Our house has a *lot* of fairly deep 1/2" gravel for the drive, and it
is covered in weeds. We've tried hoeing them off, and when I've pulled
up weeds, they have had very shallow roots embedded in the gravel but
not going through the membrane to the soil underneath. The gravel is a
confounded nuisance, because it makes it *very* difficult to wheel the
garden-waste bin to the garden where it is needed, and likewise for the
lawn mower. Both start to dig into the gravel almost as soon as they go
from paving stones/tarmac onto the gravel, and quickly end up buried up
to their axles in gravel.

Hire a whacker for a day

My gravel was like that until 15 years of cars....

--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 21/06/2019 12:03, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea
gravel on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated
- allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I tend to find that over time enough organic matter accumulates (fallen
leaves etc) in the gravel to support weed growth anyway.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds
left in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any
more. Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic
type - which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's
not what I want!

Any bright ideas?

I was under the impression that if you cover a patch with something
totally light proof for a few months it will kill off pretty much
anything. Perhaps a layer of old carpet.


Oh it will work but it looks **** and the weeds will spring up as soon
as you remove it


--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 21/06/2019 13:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:17:40 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea gravel
on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated -
allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds left
in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any more.
Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic type -
which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But that's not what
I want!

Any bright ideas?

The original version of 'Pathclear' was quite effective at suppressing
weed germination for quite a while, a season or perhaps longer. But it
contained simazine, and was banned by the EU about 10 years ago, IIRC.
The replacement version they claim is effective for three months, and
opinions that I've read suggest it's not nearly as good as the
original.

But I'm not convinced that annual weeds will come up through a
weed-proof membrane, but deep-rooted perennial weeds may well do.


They dont need to. The sit on top of it. Annual weeds seed themselves
like crazy

Perennial weeds you just round up or pull up

But it's inevitable that over time, however well you've sterilised the
soil under the matting, soil from airborne dust will gradually
accumulate in the gravel; airborne weeds seeds will then germinate in
that soil. Regular application of the latest version of Pathlear will
help suppress them, but it needs to be repeated regularly through the
year which is APITB.

I don't think there is a perfect solution.

Bite te bullet and weed te thing by hand three times a year and use
pathclear three times a ytear

Ot dig it all out replace it and itlats anbouta year befire wthe firs
tweeds arrive


--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

Peter wrote:
On 21 Jun 2019, newshound wrote
(in articleSt6dnaTjr5ufZ5HAnZ2dnUU78S1QAAAA@brightvie w.co.uk):

On 21/06/2019 13:20, Chris Hogg wrote:


I don't think there is a perfect solution.
Apart from conrete?

You could try the application of a Flame Gun. Works OK for me on the gravel
patch in my front garden. Available from eBay for about £8 plus £4 for the
gas cartridges.

Peter



Those little things only tickle things as my Dad used to say,
Go for the Sheen paraffin version .
Still available to the same design it has used since the 1950s.

Older ones often on EBay sold by people who have scared themselves using
them,especially their propensity to fire 6ft jets of flame on start up.

Get the knack though and it makes weed killing fun.


GH

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 05:07:18 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

Salt. Almost as good as sodium chlorate.

Well the very edge of grass verges go brown towards the end of winter
but very soon green back up. Wouldn't with sodium chlorate...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 22 Jun 2019 04:13:09 GMT, Marland wrote:

You could try the application of a Flame Gun. Works OK for me on
the
gravel patch in my front garden.

Damn forgot I have one of those, having spent the best part of a day
weeding the slate chippings.

Those little things only tickle things as my Dad used to say,

That's all you need to do, you don't incenerate the weeds in place.
The blast of heat damages the plant cells and they wither within
days.

Go for the Sheen paraffin version. Still available to the same design it
has used since the 1950's.

Older ones often on EBay ...

Be better for a larger area than a small handheld gas jobbie.

... sold by people who have scared themselves using them,especially
their propensity to fire 6ft jets of flame on start up.

Yes, remember that happening when Dad was lighting a paraffin
blowlamp. I think it happens when you try to turn on the paraffin
before everything has got hot enough from the meths to vapourise it.
Still got that blowlamp must try it some time. Also a petrol one,
IIRC that needs a preheat but self pressurises, not sure I have the
courage to try out, Dad didn't like it either.

Get the knack though and it makes weed killing fun.

A gas torch-on-felt burner would be a suitable alternative but no
where near as much fun. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 21/06/2019 19:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/06/2019 12:03, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/06/2019 10:17, Roger Mills wrote:
I have a patio area/path consisting of a couple of inches of pea
gravel on top of some weed matting.

When I first created this 20-odd years ago, I gave the soil a liberal
dose of sodium chlorate before laying the weed matting. This kept it
weed-free for quite a few years, but the matting has now deteriorated
- allowing a lot of weeds to take root.

I tend to find that over time enough organic matter accumulates
(fallen leaves etc) in the gravel to support weed growth anyway.

I have removed the gravel and the weeds, and am about to take up the
matting and renew it before covering it with new gravel. I need to be
able to neutralise the soil in order to prevent any roots or seeds
left in from growing. I don't think you can buy sodium chlorate any
more. Most of the weedkillers available seem to be of the systemic
type - which kill existing weeds but don't affect the soil. But
that's not what I want!

Any bright ideas?

I was under the impression that if you cover a patch with something
totally light proof for a few months it will kill off pretty much
anything. Perhaps a layer of old carpet.


Oh it will work but it looks ****

can you see it under the gravel?

and the weeds will spring up as soon
as you remove it

So leave it there...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/06/2019 09:19, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 05:07:18 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

Salt. Almost as good as sodium chlorate.

Well the very edge of grass verges go brown towards the end of winter
but very soon green back up. Wouldn't with sodium chlorate...

I had rabbits grazing the dead nettles in my gravel so today I got out
my brand new £2.95 sieve from Home base, and started shovelling the
gravel into it

One trug for anything green one for what was sieved and then just put
the gravel back

You would not *believe* how much soil I sieved out.

Probably a large bucketful for every square meter.

Rate was about a square meter an hour for the very bad bits

3 sq meters done ...15 to go...

I got about 10 kilos of compostable material as well



--
€œSome people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of €¨an airplane.€�

Dennis Miller