I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?


You could try sodium chlorate. I sssume the gaps are too small to rake
out and use a weak sand/cement mix? Ive mortared my stones in for just
the reasons you quote.

If you use chlorate be aware that its a long term soil poison. And it
stays poisonous as it washes away. What seems to happen in practice is
that weeds near the surface die fairly quickly - days - and as the rain
comes it penetrates deeper and kills longer term perennials with deeper
roots. Ultimately it kills everything, but usually - unless subject to
surface water run off carrying it into beds and lawns - it is too weak
to do much harm.

The other technique that used to be used as lot, but seems less popular
now but should be highly effective on brick, is to use a flame gun. This
essentually sterilises the soil locally and completely kills un
germinated seeds. You could for example takee a blowlamp to the cracks
and do each one by hand. If a flame gun is not available.

In article , Terry Pinnell
writes
I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?


Sodium clorate seem to stop most everything for quite some time...
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:04:18 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?

I was looking for summat similar the other day and came to the
conclusion you are what you drink .. ie, there is a good chance that
anything strong enough to kill the soil could leech into the water
tabe and do the same to you (and the rest of us)? ;-(

I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).

Is there any way you could pressure wash all the sand out between the
blocks (again) and replace with a very weak, dry sand / cement mix and
let it go off on it's own (or gently water it in). Not sure if blocks
have to be 'live' or not ..?

I'm told diesel works pretty well .. if you can stand the smell and
keeping in mind all the above ...

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Is there any way you could pressure wash all the sand out between the
blocks (again) and replace with a very weak, dry sand / cement mix and
let it go off on it's own (or gently water it in). Not sure if blocks
have to be 'live' or not ..?

Doesn't stop the weeds, though. ;-)

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

T i m wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:04:18 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?

I was looking for summat similar the other day and came to the
conclusion you are what you drink .. ie, there is a good chance that
anything strong enough to kill the soil could leech into the water
tabe and do the same to you (and the rest of us)? ;-(

I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).

Doesn't work.

Weed/grass seeds will happily germinate in the sand between blocks
which is *above the membrane.

Andrew

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Terry Pinnell
writes
I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can

Sodium clorate seem to stop most everything for quite some time...

And is fairly nice to other stuff in the environment - doesn't kill fish
easily for example.

In article . com,
wrote:
I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).

Doesn't work.

Weed/grass seeds will happily germinate in the sand between blocks
which is *above the membrane.

Yes - but are easy to remove. Since they can't root so deep. The awkward
ones like dandelions won't even try.

--
*Modulation in all things *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi Tim

So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.


I'm going to face the same problem soon when I install my gravel drive. A
quick Google found http://tinyurl.com/dd2tb which suggests a 'residual' weed
killer. Didn't mention any brand names though.

Dave

David Lang wrote:
Hi Tim

So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.


I'm going to face the same problem soon when I install my gravel drive. A
quick Google found http://tinyurl.com/dd2tb which suggests a 'residual' weed
killer. Didn't mention any brand names though.

I think the only really effective solution for a gravel area is a
membrance. We have a large gravel drive and neither sodium chlorate
nor pathclear keeps it clear of weeds for any reasonable length of
time. It must have had lots and lots of sodium chlorate on it over
the years and we're in a low rainfall part of the country but the
weeds are stall as rampant as always this year.

--
Chris Green

Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

Brush in a little sodium chlorate weedkiller.

T i m wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:04:18 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:


I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?


I was looking for summat similar the other day and came to the
conclusion you are what you drink .. ie, there is a good chance that
anything strong enough to kill the soil could leech into the water
tabe and do the same to you (and the rest of us)? ;-(

I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).


Actually it doesn't.

It makes it worse.

You get wind blown seeds, rain, and mud dust blown into the cracks.

Fitting a membrane will hold the water in and encourage them to germinate.

It does discurage deep rooted stuff, but thats eldom an issue with block
paving.

Is there any way you could pressure wash all the sand out between the
blocks (again) and replace with a very weak, dry sand / cement mix and
let it go off on it's own (or gently water it in). Not sure if blocks
have to be 'live' or not ..?

I'm told diesel works pretty well .. if you can stand the smell and
keeping in mind all the above ...

yes, it does, but its probably nastier than chlorate in terms of poisoning.

All the best ..

T i m

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:

Is there any way you could pressure wash all the sand out between the
blocks (again) and replace with a very weak, dry sand / cement mix and
let it go off on it's own (or gently water it in). Not sure if blocks
have to be 'live' or not ..?


Doesn't stop the weeds, though. ;-)

Actually it does. The cement fills in the micro cracks where seeds and
dirt collect.

wrote:

David Lang wrote:

Hi Tim


So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.


I'm going to face the same problem soon when I install my gravel drive. A
quick Google found http://tinyurl.com/dd2tb which suggests a 'residual' weed
killer. Didn't mention any brand names though.


I think the only really effective solution for a gravel area is a
membrance. We have a large gravel drive and neither sodium chlorate
nor pathclear keeps it clear of weeds for any reasonable length of
time. It must have had lots and lots of sodium chlorate on it over
the years and we're in a low rainfall part of the country but the
weeds are stall as rampant as always this year.

Actually the answer is to make the gravel deep. 2-4". That takes time to
become clogged with mud. When it does, you scrape it out and lay another
2-4". The depth is enough to wash seeds etc down to the base where they
don't get enugh light to germinate.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Is there any way you could pressure wash all the sand out between the
blocks (again) and replace with a very weak, dry sand / cement mix and
let it go off on it's own (or gently water it in). Not sure if blocks
have to be 'live' or not ..?


Doesn't stop the weeds, though. ;-)

Actually it does. The cement fills in the micro cracks where seeds and
dirt collect.

Thinks. Wonder if he can see my patio and thinks I'm lying?

--
*Black holes are where God divided by zero *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm fighting an ongoing battle against weeds growing through the
sand-gaps in out brick paths and patio. I spent the weekend clearing
them, this time with a high pressure hose, and refilling with fine
sand. So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.

But I could find nothing that appeared suitable on the Homebase
shelves this morning. Products like PathClear seem to require the
weeds to be present and growing! So I am hoping someone here can
recommend a product that I can soak into the sand that will STOP the
weeds actually growing. Surely there must be something potent enough
to do this please?

Just realised I should have posted this in uk.rec.gardening! But if
anyone here has any ideas please...

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:03:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).


Actually it doesn't.

It makes it worse.

You get wind blown seeds, rain, and mud dust blown into the cracks.

Indeed .. but nothing that wouldn't come out easily? When clearing my
mates back garden recently I nearly had to take some thistles down
with a chainsaw (my 32cc 'Bushwacker' just grazed them) ;-(

Fitting a membrane will hold the water in and encourage them to germinate.

I've not used / tried such yet but I thought the *point* of these
'membranes' is that they are permeable?

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:45:53 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:


Just realised I should have posted this in uk.rec.gardening!

Seems straightworward to me ... 'killing (rather than cultivating)
plants *yourself* .. ' ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:03:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:



I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).


Actually it doesn't.

It makes it worse.

You get wind blown seeds, rain, and mud dust blown into the cracks.


Indeed .. but nothing that wouldn't come out easily? When clearing my
mates back garden recently I nearly had to take some thistles down
with a chainsaw (my 32cc 'Bushwacker' just grazed them) ;-(

Fitting a membrane will hold the water in and encourage them to germinate.


I've not used / tried such yet but I thought the *point* of these
'membranes' is that they are permeable?

Only time Ive seen them work is on top of the soil: Once the dirt
collects the grass starts a-growin.
All the best ..

T i m

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Is there any way you could pressure wash all the sand out between the
blocks (again) and replace with a very weak, dry sand / cement mix and
let it go off on it's own (or gently water it in). Not sure if blocks
have to be 'live' or not ..?


Doesn't stop the weeds, though. ;-)


Actually it does. The cement fills in the micro cracks where seeds and
dirt collect.


Thinks. Wonder if he can see my patio and thinks I'm lying?

Ditto. Have a look at mine. Not a weed anywhere. Full of mortar.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Doesn't stop the weeds, though. ;-)

Actually it does. The cement fills in the micro cracks where seeds and
dirt collect.

Thinks. Wonder if he can see my patio and thinks I'm lying?

Ditto. Have a look at mine. Not a weed anywhere. Full of mortar.

Give it time.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Fitting a membrane will hold the water in and encourage them to
germinate.

I've not used / tried such yet but I thought the *point* of these
'membranes' is that they are permeable?

Only time Ive seen them work is on top of the soil: Once the dirt
collects the grass starts a-growin.

We've got them with bark/slabs on top. Weeds root in the bark but pull
straight up intact with no effort, unless they've managed to slip a root
under the slabs.

--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with blueyonder dot co dot uk

T i m wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:45:53 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:


Just realised I should have posted this in uk.rec.gardening!

Seems straightworward to me ... 'killing (rather than cultivating)
plants *yourself* .. ' ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Thanks for all those very helpful replies (many more than in
uk.rec.gardening g).

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:

David Lang wrote:

Hi Tim


So now I want to do whatever I can to PREVENT their
reappearance. Or at least postpone it for a long time.


I'm going to face the same problem soon when I install my gravel drive. A
quick Google found http://tinyurl.com/dd2tb which suggests a 'residual' weed
killer. Didn't mention any brand names though.


I think the only really effective solution for a gravel area is a
membrance. We have a large gravel drive and neither sodium chlorate
nor pathclear keeps it clear of weeds for any reasonable length of
time. It must have had lots and lots of sodium chlorate on it over
the years and we're in a low rainfall part of the country but the
weeds are stall as rampant as always this year.

Actually the answer is to make the gravel deep. 2-4". That takes time to
become clogged with mud. When it does, you scrape it out and lay another
2-4". The depth is enough to wash seeds etc down to the base where they
don't get enugh light to germinate.

If you're going to scrape it out regularly wouldn't it be easier to
put down a membrane? It's not very expensive.

--
Chris Green

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I think one of the current solutions is to fit a membrane under the
paving (no use to you (or me) now I know) and that pretty well
prevents the problem (rather than looking for a cure).


Actually it doesn't.

It makes it worse.

You get wind blown seeds, rain, and mud dust blown into the cracks.

Fitting a membrane will hold the water in and encourage them to germinate.

It does discurage deep rooted stuff, but thats eldom an issue with block
paving.

Membranes are porous so they don't prevent the water draining away.

--
Chris Green

Actually the answer is to make the gravel deep. 2-4". That takes time to
become clogged with mud. When it does, you scrape it out and lay another
2-4". The depth is enough to wash seeds etc down to the base where they
don't get enugh light to germinate.

Trouble with that is you wouldn't be able to walk on it. More that about 1"
of compacted gravel is like walking on a shale beach.

Dave

wrote:

On 16 Jun,
"David Lang" wrote:


Actually the answer is to make the gravel deep. 2-4". That takes time to
become clogged with mud. When it does, you scrape it out and lay another
2-4". The depth is enough to wash seeds etc down to the base where they
don't get enugh light to germinate.

Trouble with that is you wouldn't be able to walk on it. More that about
1" of compacted gravel is like walking on a shale beach.


The type of gravel greatly affects this. Some hardly moves, rounded gravel,
like beach gravel will.

well after about 4 weeks of car traffic our 20mm hard edged shingle is
packing down nicely. The 2" deep bits are rook solid, but the 6" bits
are still a bit mushy.

But cars aren't getting bogged in it any more.