On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 11:42:36 +0100, NY wrote:

Am I very unlucky with the number of punctures I get, or is it just a
hazard of living in a rural area where road surfaces are poorer and
there's more crap (nails, thorny branches) left on the road by other
vehicles?

Rural, can't honestly remember when the last puncture I had was, it's
that long ago, somewhere around 10 years. Other half called me out
about 5 years ago with a flat.

Nearside front wheel bearings seem to take a hammering though...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more. Many people
seem to regard not being able to do *simple* maintenance on a car as a
positive virtue. By "simple" I mean even things like checking oil, coolant
and windscreen washer levels and tyre pressures / tread depths periodically,
and checking for leaves blocking the drain holes on the sill at the base of
the windscreen. I mention the windscreen drain because I once fell foul of
this: I got into my car one morning in autumn after a heavy night's rain,
and my feet were paddling in water. The ducts which drain the water that
runs off the windscreen into the sill where the windscreen wipers come from
had got blocked with leaves and the water couldn't drain away so it had
overflowed down the back of the bulkhead into the car. That was a nice
"little" job removing the centre gear lever console and the front seats to
get all the carpets up to wash them and dry them out. For a couple of days I
was running around with no carpets or underlay (a lot more road noise!) and
no passenger seat. I always check the drain holes now when there are leaves
falling.

- once the nut has turned half a turn, raise the wheel and undo it the
rest of the way by hand; at this stage, check again beforehand to make
absolutely certain that the handbrake is on and the car is in gear -
it's embarrassing if the car rolls off the jack.

As for method, yes, but loosen *all* the bolts/nuts half a turn on
the required wheel before jacking the car up. B-)

Yes I meant to say that you loosen *all* the nuts half a turn before jacking
up. The main thing is, don't try to exert a lot of force on the nuts when
the wheel is in the air and therefore free to rotate if the brakes or
transmission won't stop it turning. I've never had to change front wheel on
a rear wheel drive car (I've never owned one) but those wheels are
completely unbraked when they are raised unless you've got someone to press
the footbrake for you. I *think* all my cars have been new enough to have
bolts that you remove, rather than nuts that engage with captive bolts that
remain attached to the hub. I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate the
wheel onto four captive bolts than to locate it only onto the central boss
and then be able to rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the
wheel.

Have you ever *lost* a spare wheel? I did once on my first Pug 306 which had
the spare in a cage under the floor. I was driving down a country lane when
I heard a grating sound which was the cage rubbing on the road. I drove back
slowly to look for the wheel, but I never found it, so maybe it fell out
further back than I drove, though when I hadn't found it after half a mile I
parked up and walked forwards again to the place when I noticed it had gone,
in case it had rolled into a ditch. So that needed a trip to Quickfit to buy
a new steel wheel and tyre. I'd been driving for maybe a half an hour before
I noticed it was missing, so it's not as if someone had nicked it while I
was stopped and then I noticed a short distance further on. That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast as a
real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in for repair,
without a puncture turning into a high-priority "must get the fixed NOW
before I can continue my journey" emergency. The only time I would call out
the RAC is for a puncture on the offside when I'm on a motorway - let the
RAC man face the extra danger of being close to traffic, protected by the
flashing lights on his van. So far in 40 years driving, I've never had a
puncture while I've been driving (apart from the blow-out when the tyre
scraped against the edge of the tarmac when I was forced off the road by an
oncoming tractor) - all my punctures have been of the sort where the car is
fine when I park, and then the tyre is flat when I come to drive away: very
slow pi

NY wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more. Many people
seem to regard not being able to do *simple* maintenance on a car as a
positive virtue. By "simple" I mean even things like checking oil, coolant
and windscreen washer levels and tyre pressures / tread depths periodically,
and checking for leaves blocking the drain holes on the sill at the base of
the windscreen. I mention the windscreen drain because I once fell foul of
this: I got into my car one morning in autumn after a heavy night's rain,
and my feet were paddling in water. The ducts which drain the water that
runs off the windscreen into the sill where the windscreen wipers come from
had got blocked with leaves and the water couldn't drain away so it had
overflowed down the back of the bulkhead into the car. That was a nice
"little" job removing the centre gear lever console and the front seats to
get all the carpets up to wash them and dry them out. For a couple of days I
was running around with no carpets or underlay (a lot more road noise!) and
no passenger seat. I always check the drain holes now when there are leaves
falling.

- once the nut has turned half a turn, raise the wheel and undo it the
rest of the way by hand; at this stage, check again beforehand to make
absolutely certain that the handbrake is on and the car is in gear -
it's embarrassing if the car rolls off the jack.

As for method, yes, but loosen *all* the bolts/nuts half a turn on
the required wheel before jacking the car up. B-)

Yes I meant to say that you loosen *all* the nuts half a turn before jacking
up. The main thing is, don't try to exert a lot of force on the nuts when
the wheel is in the air and therefore free to rotate if the brakes or
transmission won't stop it turning. I've never had to change front wheel on
a rear wheel drive car (I've never owned one) but those wheels are
completely unbraked when they are raised unless you've got someone to press
the footbrake for you. I *think* all my cars have been new enough to have
bolts that you remove, rather than nuts that engage with captive bolts that
remain attached to the hub. I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate the
wheel onto four captive bolts than to locate it only onto the central boss
and then be able to rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the
wheel.

Have you ever *lost* a spare wheel? I did once on my first Pug 306 which had
the spare in a cage under the floor. I was driving down a country lane when
I heard a grating sound which was the cage rubbing on the road. I drove back
slowly to look for the wheel, but I never found it, so maybe it fell out
further back than I drove, though when I hadn't found it after half a mile I
parked up and walked forwards again to the place when I noticed it had gone,
in case it had rolled into a ditch. So that needed a trip to Quickfit to buy
a new steel wheel and tyre. I'd been driving for maybe a half an hour before
I noticed it was missing, so it's not as if someone had nicked it while I
was stopped and then I noticed a short distance further on. That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast as a
real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in for repair,
without a puncture turning into a high-priority "must get the fixed NOW
before I can continue my journey" emergency. The only time I would call out
the RAC is for a puncture on the offside when I'm on a motorway - let the
RAC man face the extra danger of being close to traffic, protected by the
flashing lights on his van. So far in 40 years driving, I've never had a
puncture while I've been driving (apart from the blow-out when the tyre
scraped against the edge of the tarmac when I was forced off the road by an
oncoming tractor) - all my punctures have been of the sort where the car is
fine when I park, and then the tyre is flat when I come to drive away: very
slow pi

Some would say that you should take part of the weight off the wheel by
jacking it up a bit before loosening the nuts at all, partly to make it
easier and partly to avoid bending forces on the edge of the hole in the
wheel.

As far as wheel studs are concerned, in some ways it is easier to put a
heavy wheel on studs, as it stays in the right place even if slightly
skewed or not fully on.

--

Roger Hayter

On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:56:20 +0100
"NY" wrote:

That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast
as a real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in
for repair,

But stuck in a cage under the back, with the retaining screw rusted
solid ...

On 15/04/2019 15:26, Roger Hayter wrote:
NY wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more. Many people
seem to regard not being able to do *simple* maintenance on a car as a
positive virtue. By "simple" I mean even things like checking oil, coolant
and windscreen washer levels and tyre pressures / tread depths periodically,
and checking for leaves blocking the drain holes on the sill at the base of
the windscreen. I mention the windscreen drain because I once fell foul of
this: I got into my car one morning in autumn after a heavy night's rain,
and my feet were paddling in water. The ducts which drain the water that
runs off the windscreen into the sill where the windscreen wipers come from
had got blocked with leaves and the water couldn't drain away so it had
overflowed down the back of the bulkhead into the car. That was a nice
"little" job removing the centre gear lever console and the front seats to
get all the carpets up to wash them and dry them out. For a couple of days I
was running around with no carpets or underlay (a lot more road noise!) and
no passenger seat. I always check the drain holes now when there are leaves
falling.

- once the nut has turned half a turn, raise the wheel and undo it the
rest of the way by hand; at this stage, check again beforehand to make
absolutely certain that the handbrake is on and the car is in gear -
it's embarrassing if the car rolls off the jack.

As for method, yes, but loosen *all* the bolts/nuts half a turn on
the required wheel before jacking the car up. B-)

Yes I meant to say that you loosen *all* the nuts half a turn before jacking
up. The main thing is, don't try to exert a lot of force on the nuts when
the wheel is in the air and therefore free to rotate if the brakes or
transmission won't stop it turning. I've never had to change front wheel on
a rear wheel drive car (I've never owned one) but those wheels are
completely unbraked when they are raised unless you've got someone to press
the footbrake for you. I *think* all my cars have been new enough to have
bolts that you remove, rather than nuts that engage with captive bolts that
remain attached to the hub. I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate the
wheel onto four captive bolts than to locate it only onto the central boss
and then be able to rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the
wheel.

Have you ever *lost* a spare wheel? I did once on my first Pug 306 which had
the spare in a cage under the floor. I was driving down a country lane when
I heard a grating sound which was the cage rubbing on the road. I drove back
slowly to look for the wheel, but I never found it, so maybe it fell out
further back than I drove, though when I hadn't found it after half a mile I
parked up and walked forwards again to the place when I noticed it had gone,
in case it had rolled into a ditch. So that needed a trip to Quickfit to buy
a new steel wheel and tyre. I'd been driving for maybe a half an hour before
I noticed it was missing, so it's not as if someone had nicked it while I
was stopped and then I noticed a short distance further on. That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast as a
real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in for repair,
without a puncture turning into a high-priority "must get the fixed NOW
before I can continue my journey" emergency. The only time I would call out
the RAC is for a puncture on the offside when I'm on a motorway - let the
RAC man face the extra danger of being close to traffic, protected by the
flashing lights on his van. So far in 40 years driving, I've never had a
puncture while I've been driving (apart from the blow-out when the tyre
scraped against the edge of the tarmac when I was forced off the road by an
oncoming tractor) - all my punctures have been of the sort where the car is
fine when I park, and then the tyre is flat when I come to drive away: very
slow pi

Some would say that you should take part of the weight off the wheel by
jacking it up a bit before loosening the nuts at all, partly to make it
easier and partly to avoid bending forces on the edge of the hole in the
wheel.

As far as wheel studs are concerned, in some ways it is easier to put a
heavy wheel on studs, as it stays in the right place even if slightly
skewed or not fully on.

very true ...

--
Report a bad lying Freemason to Mr Baker of UGLE Audi Vide Tace

On 15/04/2019 16:41, Rob Morley wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:56:20 +0100
"NY" wrote:

That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast
as a real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in
for repair,

But stuck in a cage under the back, with the retaining screw rusted
solid ...

ha ha

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20190415164100.0db152db@Mars...
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:56:20 +0100
"NY" wrote:

That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast
as a real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in
for repair,

But stuck in a cage under the back, with the retaining screw rusted
solid ...

Yes, that was not Peugeot's finest bit of design. If the head of the long
retaining bolt had been hexagonal, the same size as the wheel nuts (so the
same wheelbrace can be used) I would have been able to exert some serious
force and worked the seized threads loose without too much problem,
especially with the application of some WD40 which I even had in the car
with me. But when the bolt has a broad hemi-cylindrical slot, it's damn-near
impossible. If they'd used a slot with vertical rather than rounded/sloping
sides, it would have been a lot better, because at least the flat end of the
wheelbrace wouldn't have been forced out of the slot. But they went and
f*cked up the design properly - no half-measures: a 100% award-winning
f*ck-up :-( Full marks to the design department - and the testing
department which should have picked up that bad design.

On 15/04/2019 17:54, NY wrote:
"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20190415164100.0db152db@Mars...
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:56:20 +0100
"NY" wrote:

Â*That was in the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast
as a real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in
for repair,

But stuck in a cage under the back, with the retaining screw rusted
solid ...

Yes, that was not Peugeot's finest bit of design. If the head of the
long retaining bolt had been hexagonal, the same size as the wheel nuts
(so the same wheelbrace can be used) I would have been able to exert
some serious force and worked the seized threads loose without too much
problem, especially with the application of some WD40 which I even had
in the car with me. But when the bolt has a broad hemi-cylindrical slot,
it's damn-near impossible. If they'd used a slot with vertical rather
than rounded/sloping sides, it would have been a lot better, because at
least the flat end of the wheelbrace wouldn't have been forced out of
the slot. But they went and f*cked up the design properly - no
half-measures: a 100% award-winning f*ck-up :-(Â* Full marks to the
design department - and the testing department which should have picked
up that bad design.

french engineering at its best ....

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo?...d=501764960018

--
Report a bad lying Freemason to Mr Baker of UGLE Audi Vide Tace

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
Some would say that you should take part of the weight off the wheel by
jacking it up a bit before loosening the nuts at all, partly to make it
easier and partly to avoid bending forces on the edge of the hole in the
wheel.

Yes I was only suggesting releasing the initial tightness in the thread
while the contact between the wheel and the road prevents the wheel rotating
uselessly which would stop you being able to get any force on the nuts at
all. If you have an assistant to keep their foot on the footbrake then
better all round to raise the wheel even before starting, but all the "best"
punctures occur when you're on your own :-( I take your point, though,
about wanting to avoid the wheel pressing against the nuts or bolt heads due
to the weight on it.

As far as wheel studs are concerned, in some ways it is easier to put a
heavy wheel on studs, as it stays in the right place even if slightly
skewed or not fully on.

It all depends critically on the hub being designed with a lip that can take
the weight of the wheel as you are rotating it until the holes line up.
Without a lip, it it virtually impossible to line up the wheel holes and the
bolt holes - but I've never seen a car like that: there has always been a
lip that the wheel can sit on as it is rotated.

With studs protruding from the hub, you have to get the orientation of the
wheel perfectly aligned with the studs before you can slot one then the next
into the holes on the wheel. But having got one stud on, that takes the
weight and allows you a bit of fine movement when lining up the next one -
and when two are lined up, they are all lined up.

One other advantage with bolts (the modern way) is that they are bigger and
less likely to loose in the dark if you've put them carefully in the
upturned hub-cap... and then accidentally kicked it, spreading the nuts all
over the place in the dark. Been there, done that - and it was when I really
*needed* to change the wheel as fast as possible because there was a crowd
of threatening, menacing drunks gathering to watch, and it would have only
taken some trivial "offence" to spark off a fight, with me at the centre of
it. I've never changed a wheel so fast in my life. That was one occasion
when I only tightened the nuts finger tight so I could scarper as fast as
possible, and then inspect things and finish off the job when I was out of
harm's way.

The other occasion when I thought I was going to get beaten up was when I
was changing a red-hot tyre (it had gone flat and started to melt, but I
hadn't noticed any change in handling immediately) in the pitch black on a
country lane with a narrow pavement between the road and a ditch. The flat
was on the nearside so after I'd removed that wheel, I put it on the
pavement behind me while I went to get the spare, ready to fit it. I heard a
tuneless humming and rhythmic screech of metal on metal, and could see a
glow-worm of light getting gradually closer. Suddenly it arrived: an elderly
chap in a greatcoat, riding an ancient sit-up-and-beg bike, humming to
himself - roaring drunk. He reeked of alcohol. Before I could shout a
warning, his front wheel hit the flat tyre and he went arse over head into
the ditch. "I'm going to get clobbered", I thought. I can't even bugger off,
with only three wheels on the car. But when this sopping wet, weed-festooned
"creature" clambered out of the ditch, he muttered "Night nice for it. Good
evening to you, Sir." with the exaggerated politeness of the inebriated. And
he picked up his bike and off he toddled. He'd had no warning of me because
I hadn't got a torch, so I was having to work entirely by feel in the dark.
I'm sure his bike wheel was running even more crookedly than it had before -
but at least it still went round. I wonder what he remembered of the
incident the following morning, and whether he remembered why he was sopping
wet and covered in weeds and mud when he got home - and why his bike wheel
was bent.

On 15/04/2019 15:26, Roger Hayter wrote:
NY wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more.

It's the give up at the first sign of trouble/still breast fed generation.

I actually had a trolley jack when I got my puncture. The trouble is it
does not fit under the car with a completely flat tyre. It took me 30
seconds to find something to drive onto to lift the car and fit the jack
under it.

--
Adam

On 15/04/2019 08:34, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 14/04/2019 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 14/04/2019 18:48, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 14/04/2019 15:44, ARW wrote:
On 13/04/2019 17:17, Chris Bartram wrote:


That follows my experience. The Fabia I had was 14 months old when
I got it, and the spare was unused, and as I said elsewhere,
identical to the other 4 tyres, just on a steel wheel.

It has been suggested (by a bloke in the pub) that the wheel nuts
are different for alloy and steel wheels.

That certainly is a thing- bolts for alloys can be different lengths
and have a different shoulder, but I've been told the steel spare
wheels will have a hole shaped to suit the bolts that come with the
alloys, assuming the alloys are OE- and anyway, I presume your van
has all steels (or was this not your van?)


It's not my works van. It's my car (Skoda Octavia estate) that I
bought this Christmas.


Ah, so there's a Skoda theme here :-)

It might be a Skoda thing.




--
Adam

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more. Many people
seem to regard not being able to do *simple* maintenance on a car as a
positive virtue. By "simple" I mean even things like checking oil, coolant
and windscreen washer levels and tyre pressures / tread depths
periodically, and checking for leaves blocking the drain holes on the sill
at the base of the windscreen. I mention the windscreen drain because I
once fell foul of this: I got into my car one morning in autumn after a
heavy night's rain, and my feet were paddling in water. The ducts which
drain the water that runs off the windscreen into the sill where the
windscreen wipers come from had got blocked with leaves and the water
couldn't drain away so it had overflowed down the back of the bulkhead
into the car. That was a nice "little" job removing the centre gear lever
console and the front seats to get all the carpets up to wash them and dry
them out. For a couple of days I was running around with no carpets or
underlay (a lot more road noise!) and no passenger seat. I always check
the drain holes now when there are leaves falling.

- once the nut has turned half a turn, raise the wheel and undo it the
rest of the way by hand; at this stage, check again beforehand to make
absolutely certain that the handbrake is on and the car is in gear -
it's embarrassing if the car rolls off the jack.

As for method, yes, but loosen *all* the bolts/nuts half a turn on
the required wheel before jacking the car up. B-)

Yes I meant to say that you loosen *all* the nuts half a turn before
jacking up. The main thing is, don't try to exert a lot of force on the
nuts when the wheel is in the air and therefore free to rotate if the
brakes or transmission won't stop it turning.

And a bit of a risk of it falling off the jack if you have to jump
on the wheel brace to get the nut undone with it on the jack.

I've never had to change front wheel on a rear wheel drive car (I've never
owned one)

I've owned 3 and changed the wheel on more than 3.

but those wheels are completely unbraked when they are raised unless
you've got someone to press the footbrake for you. I *think* all my cars
have been new enough to have bolts that you remove, rather than nuts that
engage with captive bolts that remain attached to the hub.

I know my 2006 Getz still has lose nuts.

I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate the wheel onto four captive
bolts than to locate it only onto the central boss and then be able to
rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the wheel.

Yeah, that's why I prefer to actually sit on the ground
when putting the wheel back on the hub, makes it
easier to get the holes on the fixed bolts.

Have you ever *lost* a spare wheel?

No I havent. All of my cars have had the spare
inside the car except the work landrover.

I did once on my first Pug 306 which had the spare in a cage under the
floor. I was driving down a country lane when I heard a grating sound
which was the cage rubbing on the road. I drove back slowly to look for
the wheel, but I never found it, so maybe it fell out further back than I
drove, though when I hadn't found it after half a mile I parked up and
walked forwards again to the place when I noticed it had gone, in case it
had rolled into a ditch. So that needed a trip to Quickfit to buy a new
steel wheel and tyre. I'd been driving for maybe a half an hour before I
noticed it was missing, so it's not as if someone had nicked it while I
was stopped and then I noticed a short distance further on. That was in
the days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast
as a real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in for
repair, without a puncture turning into a high-priority "must get the
fixed NOW before I can continue my journey" emergency. The only time I
would call out the RAC is for a puncture on the offside when I'm on a
motorway - let the RAC man face the extra danger of being close to
traffic, protected by the flashing lights on his van. So far in 40 years
driving, I've never had a puncture while I've been driving (apart from the
blow-out when the tyre scraped against the edge of the tarmac when I was
forced off the road by an oncoming tractor) - all my punctures have been
of the sort where the car is fine when I park, and then the tyre is flat
when I come to drive away: very slow pi

Most of mine have showed up when driving. With one I could hear the ticking
of the screw in the tread as I went around the corner and didn't bother to
do
anything about it because it was on the garage sale run. It did eventually
end
up visibly well down so I used the real spare. Another time, also on a
garage
sale run, someone pointed it out to me. The Getz doesn't give much
indication
of a flat tyre handling wise. Another on another garage sale run, forget how
I became aware of that one.

On Monday, 15 April 2019 18:55:54 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 15/04/2019 08:34, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 14/04/2019 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 14/04/2019 18:48, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 14/04/2019 15:44, ARW wrote:
On 13/04/2019 17:17, Chris Bartram wrote:


That follows my experience. The Fabia I had was 14 months old when
I got it, and the spare was unused, and as I said elsewhere,
identical to the other 4 tyres, just on a steel wheel.

It has been suggested (by a bloke in the pub) that the wheel nuts
are different for alloy and steel wheels.

That certainly is a thing- bolts for alloys can be different lengths
and have a different shoulder, but I've been told the steel spare
wheels will have a hole shaped to suit the bolts that come with the
alloys, assuming the alloys are OE- and anyway, I presume your van
has all steels (or was this not your van?)


It's not my works van. It's my car (Skoda Octavia estate) that I
bought this Christmas.


Ah, so there's a Skoda theme here :-)

It might be a Skoda thing.

I'm told 'skoda' means 'it's a shame,' dunno if true. If it is they have finally done a good job of departing from their habit of making horrible economy cars. I had a ride in an Estelle once - far more unstable than their reputation ever warned me.


NT

In article , Tim Watts
writes
On 12/04/2019 22:56, Roger Hayter wrote:

Very true, But that would be a reason for not using cars at all. Or
for checking the wheelnuts.


I retorque mine after any garage does anything - they are invariably
overtightened.

Esp alloys.
--
bert

wrote in message
...
Ah, so there's a Skoda theme here :-)

It might be a Skoda thing.

I'm told 'skoda' means 'it's a shame,' dunno if true. If it is they have
finally done a good job of departing from their habit of making horrible
economy cars. I had a ride in an Estelle once - far more unstable than
their reputation ever warned me.

I remember when I was about 10 I sometimes used to get a lift to school in a
Skoda 100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_100 in the same shade of
sickly green as the first photo the Wikipedia page. It always had a faint
smell of puke because my friend's younger sister was carsick almost every
time she went in it (she was fine in her dad's Rover 3500), and the smell
lingered no matter how much they tried to clean it. The seats were very hard
embossed plastic which left a corresponding pattern on my legs, even through
my school trousers. The engine made a burbling sound and there seemed to be
no relationship between engine speed and car speed - as if either the clutch
was slipping very badly or else (which I know isn't true) it had a
variable-ratio gearbox. Was it a two-stroke, as in the Wartburg and the Saab
96 - Wikipedia doesn't say. The difference between the metallic clang of the
Skoda's doors closing and the quiet, restrained click of the Rover 3500 was
very noticeable: I was always glad when it was my friend's dad in the Rover
rather than his mum in the Skoda.

Skoda have certainly improved dramatically since those days of the 1970s. I
have a friend who has a Skoda (no idea what model) which is as good inside
and under the bonnet as most other cars - I presume that is the VW
influence.

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 04:01:47 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Most of mine

NOBODY obviously gives a **** about you, senile Rot! Just check this thread!
LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
So far in 40 years driving, I've never had a puncture while I've been
driving (apart from the blow-out when the tyre scraped against the edge
of the tarmac when I was forced off the road by an oncoming tractor) -
all my punctures have been of the sort where the car is fine when I park,
and then the tyre is flat when I come to drive away

I forgot when I said that about the incident with the drunken old man on a
bicycle who crashed into my dead wheel just after I'd taken it off to change
the tyre (see my posting of 18:44 today for that story).

Most of mine have showed up when driving. With one I could hear the
ticking
of the screw in the tread as I went around the corner and didn't bother to
do
anything about it because it was on the garage sale run. It did eventually
end
up visibly well down so I used the real spare. Another time, also on a
garage
sale run, someone pointed it out to me. The Getz doesn't give much
indication
of a flat tyre handling wise. Another on another garage sale run, forget
how
I became aware of that one.

When my dead wheel was run into by the drunk on the bike, I was driving my
mum's Renault 6 with very soft rolling suspension, like many French cars of
the 1970s and 80s. I had a lucky escape because I was probably driving a bit
faster round bends than I should have been (the dreaded "I've passed my test
about a year ago, I'm pretty good at driving now" arrogance - *not*
something I'm proud of) and if the car had gone out of control due to the
tyre overheating and coming off, I'd have probably crashed. As it is, I
didn't feel any difference in handling beforehand. The only things that made
me suspect that something was wrong were the noise of the rim on the road as
it had cut through the tread, and the smell of very hot rubber. It was scary
to think that I had no other sensation of the car pulling to one side or
rolling more on right hand than left hand bends. Fortunately the rim of the
wheel was not dented and could be re-used once a new tyre was put on it.

Nowadays you get "tyre deflation" warnings if a sparrow farts in the wrong
direction, so a tyre would never get that flat without you knowing. Our
Honda's warning system is very sensitive and gives a lot of false warnings.
After we had a genuine slow puncture, we had to get one tyre changed, so
there was a brand new tyre and one that had done maybe 10,000 miles on the
same axle. It took several weeks of driving, cancelling the warning whenever
it sounded (and initially, checking that the pressure really wasn't low)
before it stopped alerting us to a problem. I presume it didn't like the
slightly different diameters of the tyres of different ages. Does a larger
(newer) tyre tend to wear down slightly quicker than an older one on the
same axle? Could it be that after a few weeks' driving the difference in
diameters was less pronounced (if the new one had worn down to the same
level as the older one)? Does the relative wear of different ages of tyre
depend on a) whether its steered wheels or the back ones, b) whether the
axle is driven through a differential or totally independent wheels? In our
case, it was the rear wheels on a Honda CR-V 4WD, so the rear wheels *are*
driven, even if normally most of the power goes through the front axle
unless that loses traction.

On Monday, 15 April 2019 20:00:41 UTC+1, NY wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

Ah, so there's a Skoda theme here :-)

It might be a Skoda thing.

I'm told 'skoda' means 'it's a shame,' dunno if true. If it is they have
finally done a good job of departing from their habit of making horrible
economy cars. I had a ride in an Estelle once - far more unstable than
their reputation ever warned me.

I remember when I was about 10 I sometimes used to get a lift to school in a
Skoda 100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_100 in the same shade of
sickly green as the first photo the Wikipedia page. It always had a faint
smell of puke because my friend's younger sister was carsick almost every
time she went in it (she was fine in her dad's Rover 3500), and the smell
lingered no matter how much they tried to clean it. The seats were very hard
embossed plastic which left a corresponding pattern on my legs, even through
my school trousers. The engine made a burbling sound and there seemed to be
no relationship between engine speed and car speed - as if either the clutch
was slipping very badly or else (which I know isn't true) it had a
variable-ratio gearbox. Was it a two-stroke, as in the Wartburg and the Saab
96 - Wikipedia doesn't say. The difference between the metallic clang of the
Skoda's doors closing and the quiet, restrained click of the Rover 3500 was
very noticeable: I was always glad when it was my friend's dad in the Rover
rather than his mum in the Skoda.

Skoda have certainly improved dramatically since those days of the 1970s. I
have a friend who has a Skoda (no idea what model) which is as good inside
and under the bonnet as most other cars - I presume that is the VW
influence.

Why were old Skodas so horribly ugly?

ARW wrote:

I actually had a trolley jack when I got my puncture. The trouble is it
does not fit under the car with a completely flat tyre. It took me 30
seconds to find something to drive onto to lift the car and fit the jack
under it.

Would that have been the spare tyre you drove onto?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 15/04/2019 13:56, NY wrote:

I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate the wheel onto four captive
bolts than to locate it only onto the central boss and then be able to
rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the wheel.

The trick is to not attempt to line up all the studs at once. You tilt
the wheel slightly and align just one hole with a stud so you can hook
it over just the tip of the stud. Unless you've jacked the car up by an
enormous amount you can do this while the wheel is still on the ground
so you're not struggling to support the weight of the wheel and trying
to align it at the same time.Then you rotate the wheel around that stud
until all the remaining holes line up and push the wheel back against
the hub.

On 16/04/2019 10:10, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/04/2019 13:56, NY wrote:

I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate the wheel onto four
captive bolts than to locate it only onto the central boss and then be
able to rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the wheel.

The trick is to not attempt to line up all the studs at once. You tilt
the wheel slightly and align just one hole with a stud so you can hook
it over just the tip of the stud. Unless you've jacked the car up by an
enormous amount you can do this while the wheel is still on the ground
so you're not struggling to support the weight of the wheel and trying
to align it at the same time.Then you rotate the wheel around that stud
until all the remaining holes line up and push the wheel back against
the hub.

Yes. I've always found it far easier to put a wheel on studs than to put
one with bolts on - even where the wheel is far larger and heavier than
the bolted one.

SteveW

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more. Many people
seem to regard not being able to do *simple* maintenance on a car as a
positive virtue. By "simple" I mean even things like checking oil,
coolant
and windscreen washer levels and tyre pressures / tread depths
periodically,
and checking for leaves blocking the drain holes on the sill at the base
of
the windscreen. I mention the windscreen drain because I once fell foul
of
this: I got into my car one morning in autumn after a heavy night's rain,
and my feet were paddling in water. The ducts which drain the water that
runs off the windscreen into the sill where the windscreen wipers come
from
had got blocked with leaves and the water couldn't drain away so it had
overflowed down the back of the bulkhead into the car. That was a nice
"little" job removing the centre gear lever console and the front seats
to
get all the carpets up to wash them and dry them out. For a couple of
days I
was running around with no carpets or underlay (a lot more road noise!)
and
no passenger seat. I always check the drain holes now when there are
leaves
falling.

- once the nut has turned half a turn, raise the wheel and undo it the
rest of the way by hand; at this stage, check again beforehand to make
absolutely certain that the handbrake is on and the car is in gear -
it's embarrassing if the car rolls off the jack.

As for method, yes, but loosen *all* the bolts/nuts half a turn on
the required wheel before jacking the car up. B-)

Yes I meant to say that you loosen *all* the nuts half a turn before
jacking
up. The main thing is, don't try to exert a lot of force on the nuts when
the wheel is in the air and therefore free to rotate if the brakes or
transmission won't stop it turning. I've never had to change front wheel
on
a rear wheel drive car (I've never owned one) but those wheels are
completely unbraked when they are raised unless you've got someone to
press
the footbrake for you. I *think* all my cars have been new enough to have
bolts that you remove, rather than nuts that engage with captive bolts
that
remain attached to the hub. I imagine it's a little bit harder to locate
the
wheel onto four captive bolts than to locate it only onto the central
boss
and then be able to rotate it until the bolt holes are lined up with the
wheel.

Have you ever *lost* a spare wheel? I did once on my first Pug 306 which
had
the spare in a cage under the floor. I was driving down a country lane
when
I heard a grating sound which was the cage rubbing on the road. I drove
back
slowly to look for the wheel, but I never found it, so maybe it fell out
further back than I drove, though when I hadn't found it after half a
mile I
parked up and walked forwards again to the place when I noticed it had
gone,
in case it had rolled into a ditch. So that needed a trip to Quickfit to
buy
a new steel wheel and tyre. I'd been driving for maybe a half an hour
before
I noticed it was missing, so it's not as if someone had nicked it while I
was stopped and then I noticed a short distance further on. That was in
the
days of proper serviceable spares that can be used as far and as fast as
a
real wheel, until it's convenient to take the punctured tyre in for
repair,
without a puncture turning into a high-priority "must get the fixed NOW
before I can continue my journey" emergency. The only time I would call
out
the RAC is for a puncture on the offside when I'm on a motorway - let the
RAC man face the extra danger of being close to traffic, protected by the
flashing lights on his van. So far in 40 years driving, I've never had a
puncture while I've been driving (apart from the blow-out when the tyre
scraped against the edge of the tarmac when I was forced off the road by
an
oncoming tractor) - all my punctures have been of the sort where the car
is
fine when I park, and then the tyre is flat when I come to drive away:
very
slow pi

Some would say that you should take part of the weight off the wheel by
jacking it up a bit before loosening the nuts at all, partly to make it
easier

Not convinced that it would be easier. The problem is that the nut
has often been done up very tight using the air tool in the tyre
place. So the weight of the car on the bolt and nut isnt relevant.

and partly to avoid bending forces on the edge of the hole in the wheel.

But you don’t wind the nut off enough so that the bolt is riding
on the hole in wheel, its still held in place by the cone on the nut
and that is still taking the weight of the car. Not always tho with
alloy wheels that don’t have a cone on the nut.

As far as wheel studs are concerned, in some ways it is easier to put a
heavy wheel on studs, as it stays in the right place even if slightly
skewed or not fully on.

"NY" wrote in message
news
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
Some would say that you should take part of the weight off the wheel by
jacking it up a bit before loosening the nuts at all, partly to make it
easier and partly to avoid bending forces on the edge of the hole in the
wheel.

Yes I was only suggesting releasing the initial tightness in the thread
while the contact between the wheel and the road prevents the wheel
rotating uselessly which would stop you being able to get any force on the
nuts at all. If you have an assistant to keep their foot on the footbrake
then better all round to raise the wheel even before starting,

I'm not convinced that its a great idea to have someone
getting in and out of the drivers seat with the car on the
jack, to much risk of it coming off the jack IMO.

but all the "best" punctures occur when you're on your own :-( I take
your point, though, about wanting to avoid the wheel pressing against the
nuts or bolt heads due to the weight on it.

As far as wheel studs are concerned, in some ways it is easier to put a
heavy wheel on studs, as it stays in the right place even if slightly
skewed or not fully on.

It all depends critically on the hub being designed with a lip that can
take the weight of the wheel as you are rotating it until the holes line
up. Without a lip, it it virtually impossible to line up the wheel holes
and the bolt holes - but I've never seen a car like that: there has always
been a lip that the wheel can sit on as it is rotated.

With studs protruding from the hub, you have to get the orientation of the
wheel perfectly aligned with the studs before you can slot one then the
next into the holes on the wheel. But having got one stud on, that takes
the weight and allows you a bit of fine movement when lining up the next
one - and when two are lined up, they are all lined up.

One other advantage with bolts (the modern way) is that they are bigger
and less likely to loose in the dark if you've put them carefully in the
upturned hub-cap...

Few cars have hub caps anymore.

and then accidentally kicked it, spreading the nuts all over the place in
the dark. Been there, done that - and it was when I really *needed* to
change the wheel as fast as possible because there was a crowd of
threatening, menacing drunks gathering to watch, and it would have only
taken some trivial "offence" to spark off a fight, with me at the centre
of it. I've never changed a wheel so fast in my life. That was one
occasion when I only tightened the nuts finger tight so I could scarper as
fast as possible, and then inspect things and finish off the job when I
was out of harm's way.

The other occasion when I thought I was going to get beaten up was when I
was changing a red-hot tyre (it had gone flat and started to melt, but I
hadn't noticed any change in handling immediately) in the pitch black on a
country lane with a narrow pavement between the road and a ditch. The flat
was on the nearside so after I'd removed that wheel, I put it on the
pavement behind me while I went to get the spare, ready to fit it. I heard
a tuneless humming and rhythmic screech of metal on metal, and could see a
glow-worm of light getting gradually closer. Suddenly it arrived: an
elderly chap in a greatcoat, riding an ancient sit-up-and-beg bike,
humming to himself - roaring drunk. He reeked of alcohol. Before I could
shout a warning, his front wheel hit the flat tyre and he went arse over
head into the ditch. "I'm going to get clobbered", I thought. I can't even
bugger off, with only three wheels on the car. But when this sopping wet,
weed-festooned "creature" clambered out of the ditch, he muttered "Night
nice for it. Good evening to you, Sir." with the exaggerated politeness of
the inebriated. And he picked up his bike and off he toddled. He'd had no
warning of me because I hadn't got a torch, so I was having to work
entirely by feel in the dark. I'm sure his bike wheel was running even
more crookedly than it had before - but at least it still went round. I
wonder what he remembered of the incident the following morning, and
whether he remembered why he was sopping wet and covered in weeds and mud
when he got home - and why his bike wheel was bent.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 15/04/2019 15:26, Roger Hayter wrote:
NY wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:06:32 +0100, NY wrote:

Changing a wheel is a skill that doesn't seem to be taught to drivers
nowadays.

Most people don't have the basic knowledge of how a nut and spanner
works let alone use a jack in the right place or centralise each
nut/bolt and tighten evenly in an "across center" pattern. Possibly
the biggest reason is they'd get their hands dirty.

Yes, it's not "cool" to be mechanically proficient any more.

It's the give up at the first sign of trouble/still breast fed generation.

I actually had a trolley jack when I got my puncture. The trouble is it
does not fit under the car with a completely flat tyre. It took me 30
seconds to find something to drive onto to lift the car and fit the jack
under it.

Yeah, I did wonder about that having just found that none of the
small bottle jacks I got at the garage sales are actually short enough
to go under the Getz even without a flat tyre with Aldi having a
cheap trolley jack recently.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 05:45:27 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Not convinced

Like who gives a ****, senile troll! tsk

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 06:23:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I'm not convinced

Nobody seems to be talking to you, senile Rodent. So why don't just shut the
**** up? LOL

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 06:26:35 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I actually had a trolley jack when I got my puncture. The trouble is it
does not fit under the car with a completely flat tyre. It took me 30
seconds to find something to drive onto to lift the car and fit the jack
under it.

Yeah, I did wonder about that having just found that none of the

Ahem, he wasn't even talking to you, senile Rodent! Just HOW miserable and
lonely are you that you can't see what people think of you?


--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
So far in 40 years driving, I've never had a puncture while I've been
driving (apart from the blow-out when the tyre scraped against the edge
of the tarmac when I was forced off the road by an oncoming tractor) -
all my punctures have been of the sort where the car is fine when I
park,
and then the tyre is flat when I come to drive away

I forgot when I said that about the incident with the drunken old man on a
bicycle who crashed into my dead wheel just after I'd taken it off to
change the tyre (see my posting of 18:44 today for that story).

Most of mine have showed up when driving. With one I could hear the
ticking
of the screw in the tread as I went around the corner and didn't bother
to
do
anything about it because it was on the garage sale run. It did
eventually
end
up visibly well down so I used the real spare. Another time, also on a
garage
sale run, someone pointed it out to me. The Getz doesn't give much
indication
of a flat tyre handling wise. Another on another garage sale run, forget
how
I became aware of that one.

When my dead wheel was run into by the drunk on the bike, I was driving my
mum's Renault 6 with very soft rolling suspension, like many French cars
of the 1970s and 80s. I had a lucky escape because I was probably driving
a bit faster round bends than I should have been (the dreaded "I've passed
my test about a year ago, I'm pretty good at driving now" arrogance -
*not* something I'm proud of) and if the car had gone out of control due
to the tyre overheating and coming off, I'd have probably crashed. As it
is, I didn't feel any difference in handling beforehand. The only things
that made me suspect that something was wrong were the noise of the rim on
the road as it had cut through the tread, and the smell of very hot
rubber. It was scary to think that I had no other sensation of the car
pulling to one side or rolling more on right hand than left hand bends.

Yeah, some like my 73 Golf has an unusual front suspension where
the vertical extension of what the wheel pivots around ends up
outside the point of contact of the wheel on the road. So you
don't get any pulling of the steering wheel with a flat tyre.

I bought the Golf new after the salesman demonstrated
the benefit of that by tearing along at a great rate with
one wheel in the dirt off the side of the road, taking his
hands off the steering wheel and jamming the brakes
on as hard as he could, with no ABS at that time. The
car just skids to a stop in a straight line, no swerving.

Fortunately the rim of the wheel was not dented and could be re-used once
a new tyre was put on it.

Never had a tyre destroyed that bad. I did manage to
drive the Getz with a flat so far before I noticed the
problem that the tyre was internally wrecked so the
puncture couldn't just be fixed. Rubber crumbs inside
which the tyre bloke showed me showing it was a new
tyre time. No big deal, the Getz has dirt cheap tyres.

Nowadays you get "tyre deflation" warnings if a sparrow farts in the wrong
direction, so a tyre would never get that flat without you knowing. Our
Honda's warning system is very sensitive and gives a lot of false
warnings.

Interesting. I have been considering a Civic hatch to replace the Getz but
cant
really find exactly what I want in a small hatch. Just did a 6 hour long
distance
trip yesterday and was wondering if it makes much sense to replace the car
just to get a very fancy cruise control. Otherwise the Getz is fine and is
only
13 years old now. Only failure in that time is that there is now some sort
of
leak where the filler tube for the windscreen washer bottle goes into the
washer bottle itself. Bit fiddly to replace so I havent bothered. The
retaining
clip for the sun visor inside the car has broken but the wrecker posted me
one from a wreck for nothing and its just one screw to replace.

After we had a genuine slow puncture, we had to get one tyre changed, so
there was a brand new tyre and one that had done maybe 10,000 miles on the
same axle. It took several weeks of driving, cancelling the warning
whenever it sounded (and initially, checking that the pressure really
wasn't low) before it stopped alerting us to a problem. I presume it
didn't like the slightly different diameters of the tyres of different
ages. Does a larger (newer) tyre tend to wear down slightly quicker than
an older one on the same axle?

Likely. Bit of a design glitch tho.

Could it be that after a few weeks' driving the difference in diameters
was less pronounced (if the new one had worn down to the same level as the
older one)? Does the relative wear of different ages of tyre depend on a)
whether its steered wheels or the back ones, b) whether the axle is driven
through a differential or totally independent wheels?

Or maybe the sensor got damaged in the tyre change or something.

In our case, it was the rear wheels on a Honda CR-V 4WD, so the rear
wheels *are* driven, even if normally most of the power goes through the
front axle unless that loses traction.

wrote in message
...
On Monday, 15 April 2019 20:00:41 UTC+1, NY wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

Ah, so there's a Skoda theme here :-)

It might be a Skoda thing.

I'm told 'skoda' means 'it's a shame,' dunno if true. If it is they
have
finally done a good job of departing from their habit of making
horrible
economy cars. I had a ride in an Estelle once - far more unstable than
their reputation ever warned me.

I remember when I was about 10 I sometimes used to get a lift to school
in a
Skoda 100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_100 in the same shade
of
sickly green as the first photo the Wikipedia page. It always had a faint
smell of puke because my friend's younger sister was carsick almost every
time she went in it (she was fine in her dad's Rover 3500), and the smell
lingered no matter how much they tried to clean it. The seats were very
hard
embossed plastic which left a corresponding pattern on my legs, even
through
my school trousers. The engine made a burbling sound and there seemed to
be
no relationship between engine speed and car speed - as if either the
clutch
was slipping very badly or else (which I know isn't true) it had a
variable-ratio gearbox. Was it a two-stroke, as in the Wartburg and the
Saab
96 - Wikipedia doesn't say. The difference between the metallic clang of
the
Skoda's doors closing and the quiet, restrained click of the Rover 3500
was
very noticeable: I was always glad when it was my friend's dad in the
Rover
rather than his mum in the Skoda.

Skoda have certainly improved dramatically since those days of the 1970s.
I
have a friend who has a Skoda (no idea what model) which is as good
inside
and under the bonnet as most other cars - I presume that is the VW
influence.

Why were old Skodas so horribly ugly?

For the same reason Trabants and Wartburgs were, they didnt have to
care what they looked like, there was nothing else for the suckers to buy.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 20:21:48 +0100, NY, an OBVIOUSLY brain damaged
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


I forgot

You forget that you are supposed not to feed the troll, senile idiot! BG

When my dead wheel was run into by the drunk on the bike, I was driving my
mum's Renault 6 with very soft rolling suspension, like many French cars of
the 1970s and 80s. I had a lucky escape because I was probably driving a bit
faster round bends than I should have been (the dreaded "I've passed my test
about a year ago, I'm pretty good at driving now" arrogance - *not*
something I'm proud of) and if the car had gone out of control due to the
tyre overheating and coming off, I'd have probably crashed. As it is, I
didn't feel any difference in handling beforehand. The only things that made
me suspect that something was wrong were the noise of the rim on the road as
it had cut through the tread, and the smell of very hot rubber. It was scary
to think that I had no other sensation of the car pulling to one side or
rolling more on right hand than left hand bends. Fortunately the rim of the
wheel was not dented and could be re-used once a new tyre was put on it.

Nowadays you get "tyre deflation" warnings if a sparrow farts in the wrong
direction, so a tyre would never get that flat without you knowing. Our
Honda's warning system is very sensitive and gives a lot of false warnings.
After we had a genuine slow puncture, we had to get one tyre changed, so
there was a brand new tyre and one that had done maybe 10,000 miles on the
same axle. It took several weeks of driving, cancelling the warning whenever
it sounded (and initially, checking that the pressure really wasn't low)
before it stopped alerting us to a problem. I presume it didn't like the
slightly different diameters of the tyres of different ages. Does a larger
(newer) tyre tend to wear down slightly quicker than an older one on the
same axle? Could it be that after a few weeks' driving the difference in
diameters was less pronounced (if the new one had worn down to the same
level as the older one)? Does the relative wear of different ages of tyre
depend on a) whether its steered wheels or the back ones, b) whether the
axle is driven through a differential or totally independent wheels? In our
case, it was the rear wheels on a Honda CR-V 4WD, so the rear wheels *are*
driven, even if normally most of the power goes through the front axle
unless that loses traction.

Oh, wow, another senile bull**** artist! LOL

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:51:31 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH 111 lines of the usual senile troll****

Seems you were lucky that you found another senile simpleton who doesn't
realize what a trolling senile asshole you are, eh, senile Rot? BG


--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:11:39 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Why were old Skodas so horribly ugly?

For the same reason Trabants and Wartburgs were, they didn¢t have to
care what they looked like, there was nothing else for the suckers to buy.

Trust that senile Rot will have ALL the answers to EVERY questions, ALWAYS!
LMAO

--
pamela about Rot Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
One other advantage with bolts (the modern way) is that they are bigger
and less likely to loose in the dark if you've put them carefully in the
upturned hub-cap...

Few cars have hub caps anymore.

True, but a lot of them have some form of detachable plastic wheeltrim,
often with fake hexagonal bolt heads moulded into it. The last time I had a
puncture (when an oncoming tractor forced me to veer onto a verge), the
thing that took me the longest time (far longer than jacking the car up,
removing the old wheel, putting on the spare and lowering the car to the
ground) was refitting the damn wheeltrim! It has a ring of springy wire
which presses outwards against the rim of the wheel, and you need about 10
hands to compress it all the way round so it will go past the rim and then
expand again on the inside. I'd get most of it on except one part, but as
soon as I pressed/hit it there, another part would spring out. I tried
subtlety and skill; I tried brute force; I tried swearing at it with every
bash and kick. Eventually it went back on again, but it probably took about
15 minutes of persistence. I think what finally worked was lying on my back
with my feet pressing on the left and right sides of the trim, and using my
legs to apply a lot of force.

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

One other advantage with bolts (the modern way) is
that they are bigger and less likely to loose in the dark
if you've put them carefully in the upturned hub-cap...

Few cars have hub caps anymore.

True, but a lot of them have some form of detachable plastic wheeltrim,

Yes, but not useful for putting the nuts or bolts into.

often with fake hexagonal bolt heads moulded into it.

Cant say I have noticed any like that.

The last time I had a puncture (when an oncoming tractor
forced me to veer onto a verge), the thing that took me the
longest time (far longer than jacking the car up, removing
the old wheel, putting on the spare and lowering the car
to the ground) was refitting the damn wheeltrim!

Never had that with mine.

It has a ring of springy wire which presses outwards
against the rim of the wheel, and you need about
10 hands to compress it all the way round so it will
go past the rim and then expand again on the inside.

Sounds like typical frog design. With the Getz it just has
holes for the studs and you put the wheel on the studs,
put the wheeltrim on the studs and then put the nuts on.

I've now discarded the wheel trim and it works fine without them.

I'd get most of it on except one part, but as soon as
I pressed/hit it there, another part would spring out.
I tried subtlety and skill; I tried brute force; I tried
swearing at it with every bash and kick. Eventually
it went back on again, but it probably took about
15 minutes of persistence.

Was this with the Peugeot or the Honda ?

I think what finally worked was lying on my back
with my feet pressing on the left and right sides
of the trim, and using my legs to apply a lot of force.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Yes, but not useful for putting the nuts or bolts into.
often with fake hexagonal bolt heads moulded into it.

Cant say I have noticed any like that.

This is mine. https://i.postimg.cc/05tqWD2Z/20190417-114419.jpg

The whole of the silvery "metal" wheel and nuts is metallic-grey plastic
trim. On the rear of the trim, behind each "wheelnut", there is a moulded
plastic cylinder which fits over the real bolt head, so the positioning of
the trim has to be accurate: if the trim is rotated a bit, the cylinders
won't line up with the bolts.

I'd get most of it on except one part, but as soon as I pressed/hit it
there, another part would spring out. I tried subtlety and skill; I tried
brute force; I tried swearing at it with every bash and kick. Eventually
it went back on again, but it probably took about 15 minutes of
persistence.

Was this with the Peugeot or the Honda ?

That was with the Peugeot. I think the Honda has alloy wheels with exposed
bolt heads and no plastic trim - I've not actually looked, or at least I've
not remembered when I have looked. And it has the dreaded locking wheelnuts,
with a key that I had to hunt high and low for when I first took the car in
for a service because my wife hadn't put it in a sensible place (either in
the glove box or in the centre of the spare wheel with the jack and
wheelbrace).

On 17/04/2019 09:13, NY wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
One other advantage with bolts (the modern way) is that they are
bigger and less likely to loose in the dark if you've put them
carefully in the upturned hub-cap...

Few cars have hub caps anymore.

True, but a lot of them have some form of detachable plastic wheeltrim,
often with fake hexagonal bolt heads moulded into it.

A lot also have alloy wheels with a small, smooth (or logoed), plastic
trim covering just past the wheelnuts. A sort of 1/4 to 1/3 diameter hubcap.

SteveW

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 19:57:33 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


True, but a lot of them have some form of detachable plastic wheeltrim,

Yes, but not useful for putting the nuts or bolts into.

Found a poor asshole who hasn't yet realized what's the matter with you,
senile Rodent? I wonder how long it will still take him. BG

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Yes. I've always found it far easier to put a wheel on studs than to put
one with bolts on - even where the wheel is far larger and heavier than
the bolted one.

My last car had bolts and heavy wheels. But in the tool kit a dummy long
rod which screwed into a bolt hole. With a nice tapered end. Made fitting
the wheel as easy as possible, as you could look round the back of the
wheel and line it up with a hole.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Yes, but not useful for putting the nuts or bolts into.
often with fake hexagonal bolt heads moulded into it.

Cant say I have noticed any like that.

This is mine. https://i.postimg.cc/05tqWD2Z/20190417-114419.jpg

Yeah, weird. And completely stupid approach given
how hard it is to get the damned thing back on after
a wheel change. Thats why I will never buy a frog car.

The whole of the silvery "metal" wheel and nuts is metallic-grey plastic
trim. On the rear of the trim, behind each "wheelnut", there is a moulded
plastic cylinder which fits over the real bolt head, so the positioning of
the trim has to be accurate: if the trim is rotated a bit, the cylinders
won't line up with the bolts.

I'd get most of it on except one part, but as soon as I pressed/hit it
there, another part would spring out. I tried subtlety and skill; I
tried brute force; I tried swearing at it with every bash and kick.
Eventually it went back on again, but it probably took about 15 minutes
of persistence.

Was this with the Peugeot or the Honda ?

That was with the Peugeot. I think the Honda has alloy wheels with exposed
bolt heads and no plastic trim -

Yeah, thats close to universal now. I'd be very
tempted to go for steel wheels with a new car
with alloys, I couldnt care less what it looks like.

I've not actually looked, or at least I've not remembered when I have
looked. And it has the dreaded locking wheelnuts, with a key that I had to
hunt high and low for when I first took the car in for a service because
my wife hadn't put it in a sensible place (either in the glove box or in
the centre of the spare wheel with the jack and wheelbrace).

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Yeah, thats close to universal now. I'd be very
tempted to go for steel wheels with a new car
with alloys, I couldnt care less what it looks like.

I've often wondered what the attraction with alloy wheels is, given that
they are softer and can deform if you accidentally scrape the wheel along a
kerb while parking. My previous car (a Pug 306) happened to come with alloy
wheels, but I'd never pay extra for them.