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Old February 17th 04, 11:44 AM
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On 17 Feb 2004 01:50:42 -0800, (Andrew)
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..

I insulated my single brick garage using Celotex by first making stud
framing in 75x50mm timber. The rectangular sections produced were
bolted to the floor using Rawlbolts and to the joists using carriage
screws. The rear face of the timber was spaced off from the wall by
about 25mm. The Celotex was cut and friction fitted into the frames
and then the joints taped with foil tape that they supply. Finally,
I clad the framing with 18mm ply. Having the timber framing spaced
off from the wall prevents cold bridging from the wall (although it
does allow some with the floor). An alternative would have been to
bolt the timbers directly to the wall but this would have bridged the
insulation - not necessarily that big a deal in a shed, although you
wouldn't do it in a dwelling. The cladding means that I can fit
light to medium weight things anywere on the walls with no hassle and
for heavier things I have very substantial studs at 600mm intervals.


Andy,

I want to do something similar and had wondered why you used the
framing method (found in the archive). Now I understand.

Do I need ventilation for the airgap behind the celotex?


It's probably a good idea. As a general principle, putting wood in a
potentially damp and unventilated space is not a good plan. Because
of the construction of my garage, I was able to incorporate
ventilation quite easily. The overhang of the roof provides quite
generous horizontal soffits under the eaves. The roof uses trussed
frames similar to house construction. I fitted Celotex to the
inner surface of the rafters - I could have fitted some between and
some on top, but it was enough of a PITA to fit the stuff up there
anyway that I didn't mind losing about 50mm of depth up there.
This created a space behind the depth of the rafters to ventilate the
them. I then boarded on top of the joists to form a storage area but
only up to the roof Celotex. The wall framing was arranged so that
there was an air gap at the top meeting the gap behind the roof
Celotex. I then fitted soffit vents into the soffits between each
pair of rafters on both sides of the (apex) roof.
This gives a ventilated space common behind roof and walls.

I did a simple test using smoke matches held against holes cut in the
final wall on a mildly windy day. It was blown in and out, so I
think that the ventilation is effective enough.

An alternative would be to chop an air brick into the wall, I suppose.

For belt and braces, I used pressure treated timber for the framing as
well. A good and cheap source of this is a timber mill that makes
fencing materials, although it can be obtained at a normal merchant.


Is there another airgap between the celotex and the plywood or do you
fit the celotex flush with the outer face of the battens?


No. The Celotex is fitted flush with the front surface of the
framing. I then taped it using the metalised tape, to cover the
joins from sheet to sheet and to the battens. In a few places where
there were small holes and gaps as a result of the garage
construction, I used foam filler.

I then fitted the ply to the framing using drywall screws and painted
it.



The celotex app notes also suggests using it to insulate the floor
with a covering of flooring grade chipboard. Anyone done this?


I debated the idea. The problem for me is that the height from
floor to joists is only about 2400mm and I didn't want to lose any of
that. Also, I will want to move heavy things in and out on occasions
so I don't really want a step at the front.

I had done the heat loss calculations for the building and the floor
was the least of the losses. Now of course it's the most, but not
substantial.





Andrew


..andy

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  #12   Report Post  
Old February 17th 04, 12:05 PM
Stephen Gilkes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

At what spacing should I drill the holes? Every 18 inches?



"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Should I use screws or masonry nails?



Predrill holes in all the battens first.



  #13   Report Post  
Old February 17th 04, 12:30 PM
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

At what spacing should I drill the holes? Every 18 inches?

I use brown plugs with 5mm screws going at least 50mm into the wall,
avoiding mortar lines. Every 18 inches sounds fine. I usually put 5 or 6 in
spread evenly, ensuring they are approximately in the middle of a
brick/block, to avoid damage.

Christian.



  #14   Report Post  
Old February 17th 04, 12:47 PM
Stephen Gilkes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

Thanks Mate!

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
At what spacing should I drill the holes? Every 18 inches?


I use brown plugs with 5mm screws going at least 50mm into the wall,
avoiding mortar lines. Every 18 inches sounds fine. I usually put 5 or 6

in
spread evenly, ensuring they are approximately in the middle of a
brick/block, to avoid damage.

Christian.





  #15   Report Post  
Old February 17th 04, 07:02 PM
Stephen Gilkes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

The bricks used to build this shed must be extra tough because I'm blunting
drill bit after drill bit. They look like normal house bricks but the dust
is grey (not the usual pinky colour). I didnt expect them to be so tough!

My mate says I should just drill into the pug joints. Is this OK?

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
At what spacing should I drill the holes? Every 18 inches?


I use brown plugs with 5mm screws going at least 50mm into the wall,
avoiding mortar lines. Every 18 inches sounds fine. I usually put 5 or 6

in
spread evenly, ensuring they are approximately in the middle of a
brick/block, to avoid damage.

Christian.







  #16   Report Post  
Old February 17th 04, 08:08 PM
MrCheerful
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls


"Stephen Gilkes" wrote in message
...
The bricks used to build this shed must be extra tough because I'm

blunting
drill bit after drill bit. They look like normal house bricks but the dust
is grey (not the usual pinky colour). I didnt expect them to be so tough!

My mate says I should just drill into the pug joints. Is this OK?

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
At what spacing should I drill the holes? Every 18 inches?


I use brown plugs with 5mm screws going at least 50mm into the wall,
avoiding mortar lines. Every 18 inches sounds fine. I usually put 5 or 6

in
spread evenly, ensuring they are approximately in the middle of a
brick/block, to avoid damage.

Christian.

Buy an sds drill and bits.

MrCheerful


  #17   Report Post  
Old February 18th 04, 12:40 AM
T i m
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:19:37 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Forget the lot use thermoboard, which is plasterboard with 30/40/50 mm
insulation bonded. +AKM-17 an 8x4 sheet fix with drywall adhesive.+AKM-4.75 a
25kg bag. Bingo finish in one.


For a shed, though, it might be more appropriate to use plywood instead of
(or in addition to) plasterboard, as it is much easier to fix shelving and
racking to.

Christian.


I turned a pre-fab 20' x 10' concrete garage into a GP workshop and
wanted to line the inside with something warm, strong and easy to fix
things to. The 'problem' was the inside of the garage was very
'paneled' with a 1 1/2" 'dish' in the panels.

I cut up a load 4 x 2 (sawn) into 6" long blocks and 'Gripfilled' them
to the inside walls at 3 heights (top. middle and bottom) and 2'
spacing. I then lined the whole lot with bubble pack and used ally 'H'
section strips to lock 12m WBP (is it?) ply panels together at the
joints and screwed to the wooden blocks.

The whole lot was painted with some light grey floor paint and (second
hand) Spur uprights (full height) fitted at 2' intervals around all
the walls (picking up on the glued blocks). This means I can put
shelves pretty well anywhere and the ply is strong enough for brackets
or small draw units in between.

The steel trussed, corrugated cement fibre, ridge type roof is a bit
of a low pitch for any real 'loft' storage. I've not done anything to
that yet but I might fabricate some taller trusses and re-roof it at
some time soon? I think I can go up to 3m high without needing
planning permission (the workshop is 8' 6" at the eaves). I was also
considering some of that triple walled polycarbonate sheet to give me
more light or maybe an odd corrugated clear H/D panel if I stick with
that style?

The std 8' square up-and-over door was not much fun (especially in the
winter) so I fabricated a triple traditional door set (out of 50 x 25
x 1.5 mm steel box tube clad in steel sheet) to give a single 1/3 rd
wide 6' 6" high personal door and the other 2/3 rds are a sort of
bi-fold allowing the whole thing to open up if needed.

It all took quite a while to do but makes for a great hidy hole for
'fettling' stuff ;-)

All the best ..

T i m


  #18   Report Post  
Old February 18th 04, 12:55 AM
Stephen Gilkes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

Whats an SDS drill?

I have a Bosch hammer drill at the moment.


"MrCheerful" wrote in message
...

"Stephen Gilkes" wrote in message
...
The bricks used to build this shed must be extra tough because I'm

blunting
drill bit after drill bit. They look like normal house bricks but the

dust
is grey (not the usual pinky colour). I didnt expect them to be so

tough!

My mate says I should just drill into the pug joints. Is this OK?

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
At what spacing should I drill the holes? Every 18 inches?

I use brown plugs with 5mm screws going at least 50mm into the wall,
avoiding mortar lines. Every 18 inches sounds fine. I usually put 5 or

6
in
spread evenly, ensuring they are approximately in the middle of a
brick/block, to avoid damage.

Christian.

Buy an sds drill and bits.

MrCheerful




  #19   Report Post  
Old February 18th 04, 01:19 AM
T i m
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:55:40 -0000, "Stephen Gilkes"
wrote:


Buy an sds drill and bits.

MrCheerful


Whats an SDS drill?

I have a Bosch hammer drill at the moment.



[T] I'm not sure what it stands for but it's a 'system'.

A std 'hammer' drill works by having a searies of 'ramps' on one of
the drive gears causing the bit to move backward and forward slightly
as it goes round. They generally have a standard or hand chucks.

An SDS 'tool' (as they don't just drill) use a different method to
create the percussion and the q/r chuck takes a range of 'bits'
including chisels etc and could be thought of as similar to a tiny
Kango? They can be used as a std rotary drill, drill with hammer or
just the hammer action (bit not rotating) . The bits have flutes on
them where they go into the chuck so they don't slip.

I think there are different std's (I'm new to all this myself) eg you
can get SDS and SDS II etc?

They range in price from +AKM-29 to hundreds for something that will work
all day (if you can lift one all day that is!).

Great for getting ceramic tiles of the wall I'm told?

All the best ..

T i m

  #20   Report Post  
Old February 18th 04, 01:21 AM
MrCheerful
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:19:37 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Forget the lot use thermoboard, which is plasterboard with 30/40/50 mm
insulation bonded. 17 an 8x4 sheet fix with drywall adhesive.4.75 a
25kg bag. Bingo finish in one.


For a shed, though, it might be more appropriate to use plywood instead

of
(or in addition to) plasterboard, as it is much easier to fix shelving

and
racking to.

Christian.


I turned a pre-fab 20' x 10' concrete garage into a GP workshop and
wanted to line the inside with something warm, strong and easy to fix
things to. The 'problem' was the inside of the garage was very
'paneled' with a 1 1/2" 'dish' in the panels.

I cut up a load 4 x 2 (sawn) into 6" long blocks and 'Gripfilled' them
to the inside walls at 3 heights (top. middle and bottom) and 2'
spacing. I then lined the whole lot with bubble pack and used ally 'H'
section strips to lock 12m WBP (is it?) ply panels together at the
joints and screwed to the wooden blocks.

The whole lot was painted with some light grey floor paint and (second
hand) Spur uprights (full height) fitted at 2' intervals around all
the walls (picking up on the glued blocks). This means I can put
shelves pretty well anywhere and the ply is strong enough for brackets
or small draw units in between.

The steel trussed, corrugated cement fibre, ridge type roof is a bit
of a low pitch for any real 'loft' storage. I've not done anything to
that yet but I might fabricate some taller trusses and re-roof it at
some time soon? I think I can go up to 3m high without needing
planning permission (the workshop is 8' 6" at the eaves). I was also
considering some of that triple walled polycarbonate sheet to give me
more light or maybe an odd corrugated clear H/D panel if I stick with
that style?

The std 8' square up-and-over door was not much fun (especially in the
winter) so I fabricated a triple traditional door set (out of 50 x 25
x 1.5 mm steel box tube clad in steel sheet) to give a single 1/3 rd
wide 6' 6" high personal door and the other 2/3 rds are a sort of
bi-fold allowing the whole thing to open up if needed.

It all took quite a while to do but makes for a great hidy hole for
'fettling' stuff ;-)

All the best ..

T i m



Sounds nice. Local byelaws may be different but 4 metres is usual for max
height

MrCheerful.




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