On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
snip

The first wave of demand management will be for things like immersion heaters, freezers, washing machines, dishwashers. Whether it will produce much saving for the system overall is a fair question. A later wave could cover all sorts of things, changes in background lighting, perhaps going from left on to PIR operation etc etc. The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.



ISTM the "first wave of demand management" is likely to be much lower
tech - an evolution of Economy 7/10 which tells people when power will
be cheaper/dearer and leaves them to decide what to use when. Already
being tried out by some smaller suppliers. Eg Agile Octopus tells
people a day ahead the prices by half hour slots. I'm waiting for news
of how it works in practice - and of their customer service - but as
pensioners with gas heating and cooking at present I'd not rule it out
in principle. Means I need a bit more than the present spreadsheet to
compare tariffs though


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 00:04:36 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot
price,
and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive"
kind
of quick indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your

usage when the spot price changes

What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice?

That'll only work for appliances that, to the consumer, are "always
on", things like fridges/freezers etc.

Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is
still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the
tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also
used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range
to drive them to school anyway ;-)

Like it. B-)

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop
cooking
dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero
notice?

Personally, no.

Same here. There is a certain amount of "novelty value" when you
first get a display that shows current consumption and you can make
savings. But there are only some many things you can switch off
rather than leave in standby or plugged in and "on". Once the novelty
has worn off, habit will have those things being left in standby/on
again in fairly short order.
However I expect that some people were sold on the idea that this kind
of scheme would make intermittent power generation somehow more
"useful", by allowing automatic "demand management".

If any "automatic demand management" impinges on when people can do
things they want to do they'll opt out. It can only be effective if
it has no or very minimal affect on what people want to do and when
they want to do it.

Of course any demand management is more to do with clipping the peak
off the early evening winter peak deamnd. By knocking 500 MW of that
you can "save" a whole power station being required but sit idle for
the vast majority of the year.

500 MW, how many fridges is that?

Lets assume that when the compressor is running a fridge takes 100W.
500,000,000 / 100 = 5,000,000 fridges, hum a lot...

BUT a fridge doesn't run it's compressor all the time. Lets assume a
20% duty cycle. That means to save 100 W on average you need to
control 5 fridges. 5,000,000 * 5 = 25 million fridges, thats more
than the number of households in the country...

It ain't going to happen any time soon.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 01/08/18 11:08, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Of course any demand management is more to do with clipping the peak
off the early evening winter peak deamnd. By knocking 500 MW of that
you can "save" a whole power station being required but sit idle for
the vast majority of the year.

500 MW, how many fridges is that?

Lets assume that when the compressor is running a fridge takes 100W.
500,000,000 / 100 = 5,000,000 fridges, hum a lot...

BUT a fridge doesn't run it's compressor all the time. Lets assume a
20% duty cycle. That means to save 100 W on average you need to
control 5 fridges. 5,000,000 * 5 = 25 million fridges, thats more
than the number of households in the country...

It ain't going to happen any time soon.


Think a fridge compressors takes more than that. 100-200W is AVERAGE and
up to 1Kw AVERAGE for big fridges and freezers.

So you can get there with only 5 million fridges




--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

In article ,
harry wrote:
I 'spect there'll be computer software soon to turn non-essential stuff
off automatically if prices go up.

You leave non essential stuff switched on when not being used? Why?
If you are that lazy, why would a different price for the electricity
matter?

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Think a fridge compressors takes more than that. 100-200W is AVERAGE and
up to 1Kw AVERAGE for big fridges and freezers.

So you can get there with only 5 million fridges

So that's why you want cheap food from around the world? Move the costs of
refrigeration elsewhere? Then chuck things out here rather than
refrigerate?

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŒ.Œ.just don't point!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:16:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/08/18 11:08, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Of course any demand management is more to do with clipping the peak
off the early evening winter peak deamnd. By knocking 500 MW of that
you can "save" a whole power station being required but sit idle for
the vast majority of the year.

500 MW, how many fridges is that?

Lets assume that when the compressor is running a fridge takes 100W.
500,000,000 / 100 = 5,000,000 fridges, hum a lot...

BUT a fridge doesn't run it's compressor all the time. Lets assume a
20% duty cycle. That means to save 100 W on average you need to
control 5 fridges. 5,000,000 * 5 = 25 million fridges, thats more
than the number of households in the country...

It ain't going to happen any time soon.


Think a fridge compressors takes more than that. 100-200W is AVERAGE and
up to 1Kw AVERAGE for big fridges and freezers.

So you can get there with only 5 million fridges

I think you're living in the past.

Our fridge (big, full height one) consumes about 65W for 8 minutes in
every 40 minutes. True there's a spike to about 750W as the compressor
starts, but that's only a second or so.

The upright freezer which is a bit bigger consumes about 32W for 40
minutes every 105 minutes.

Chest freezer consumes about 60W for 18 minutes every hour.

Any appliance that's modern enough to be switchable remotely should
have similarly low consumption.

Can't see switching appliances like these off remotely achieving
anything.

Andrew wrote:

tabbypurr wrote:

The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

By putting the price of liquid nitrogen up?

On 01/08/2018 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

You mean all those scanners that the NHS only got around recently to
using _at all_ at weekends, let alone using 24/7?

https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...s-mri-scanners

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 01/08/18 15:15, Robin wrote:
On 01/08/2018 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

You mean all those scanners that the NHS only got around recently to
using _at all_ at weekends, let alone using 24/7?

https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...s-mri-scanners


Why the NHS isnt 24x7 is beyond me.


--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/18 15:15, Robin wrote:
On 01/08/2018 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

You mean all those scanners that the NHS only got around recently to
using _at all_ at weekends, let alone using 24/7?

https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...s-mri-scanners


Why the NHS isnt 24x7 is beyond me.

Because it costs more to run anything 24/7. But then the likes of you
probably expect others to work 24/7 for 8/5 pay.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/18 15:15, Robin wrote:
On 01/08/2018 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

You mean all those scanners that the NHS only got around recently to
using _at all_ at weekends, let alone using 24/7?

https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...s-mri-scanners


Why the NHS isnt 24x7 is beyond me.

because people only get ill during "office hours". ;-)


-

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Why the NHS isnt 24x7 is beyond me.

The usual nonsense

The busiest A&E departments run 24/7.

The ambulance service and paramedics are in call 24/7

Junior doctors can be on call 24/7

They can't operate 24/7 for routine operations, because there aren't
sufficient surgeons and there will be even less following Brexit.

Just as there hardly enough nurses to go around now .

Emergency operations can and are performed 24/7 in larger centres.

As somebody who's taken full advantage of the NHS given the number of
heart operations you claim to have had, all at the expense of your fellow
taxpayers it goes without saying - basically another hypocritical parasite
just like your mate Timmy, I'm rather surprised you didn't know any of
this already.

But then your ignorance of just about everything seems to be all
encompassing, doesn't it ?


michael adams

....

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harry wrote:
I 'spect there'll be computer software soon to turn non-essential stuff
off automatically if prices go up.

You leave non essential stuff switched on when not being used?

Yes.

Why?

Because that is much more convenient than turning everything
off when it is not being used. Much more convenient to plug the
charging cable into the phone when it needs charging than it is to
turn the charger off when it isnt being used to charge the phone.
And with modern switch mode chargers, they use very little power
when not charging the phone so the convenience costs very little
and in fact over a decade costs less than having a plug board
with individual switches on it for the chargers.

"Jock Green" wrote in message ...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harry wrote:
I 'spect there'll be computer software soon to turn non-essential stuff
off automatically if prices go up.

You leave non essential stuff switched on when not being used?

Yes.

Why?

Because that is much more convenient than turning everything
off when it is not being used.

But it costs you more bawbees, wee Jock McSpeed.

Di ye nee ken that you're talking to the geniune article in
wee Davey there ?



michael adams

....

In article ,
harry writes
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:45:41 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.














https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable
energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the
sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity
will be cheaper.


Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit
so it is more expensive when the sun shines.

Yup.
Over £1200 worth generated this last quarter.
The sun shines for the righteous.
I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.
--
bert

In article ,
writes
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 00:04:36 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/07/2018 18:41, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.














https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/



I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you
don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your
usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price,
and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind
of quick indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice?

Its the usual bait and switch - get the punters to buy in with the
promise of discounts, and when its too late, they work out there are
strings.

Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is
still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the
tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also
used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range
to drive them to school anyway ;-)

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking
dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

Personally, no. However I expect that some people were sold on the idea
that this kind of scheme would make intermittent power generation
somehow more "useful", by allowing automatic "demand management".

The first wave of demand management will be for things like immersion
heaters, freezers, washing machines, dishwashers. Whether it will
produce much saving for the system overall is a fair question. A later
wave could cover all sorts of things, changes in background lighting,
perhaps going from left on to PIR operation etc etc. The billions of £
of equipment could save us at least tuppence.


NT
The only reason we need demand management is because of the obsession
with stupid renewables. There is an infinite supply of electricity in
the universe. All you have to do is rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic
field FFS. The only overhead is the distribution infrastructure which
amounts to stringing a few more wires across the countryside on pylons
and a few transformers.
I have throughout my lifetime had a continuous supply of the stuff as
much as I wanted whenever I wanted it. You call this progress?
Tell the greens to go **** themselves and build nukes.
--
bert

In article , michael adams
writes

wrote in message
...

The first wave of demand management will be for things like .... freezers,



Demand management for appliances controlled by thermostats.

Who'd have thunk it ?

Presumably it switches the thermostat off first.


michael adams

...




Quite
--
bert

In article , Andrew
writes
On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.
Apparently they've installed millions in Italy for a fraction of the
cost by giving the job to the distribution companies.
--
bert

On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:02:59 UTC+1, bert wrote:

The only reason we need demand management is because of the obsession
with stupid renewables.

No it's not. Matching demand to supply reduces generation & infrastucture costs.

There is an infinite supply of electricity in
the universe.

On earth there isn't.

All you have to do is rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic
field FFS. The only overhead is the distribution infrastructure which
amounts to stringing a few more wires across the countryside on pylons
and a few transformers.

I think you'll find in both cases there's a good bit more to it

I have throughout my lifetime had a continuous supply of the stuff as
much as I wanted whenever I wanted it.

I doubt that

You call this progress?

call what progress?

Tell the greens to go **** themselves and build nukes.

Nukes are the CO2-free option. Demand management will at some point be cheaper - that's all it is, a money saving measure, IF implemented when it saves money. Given the political nature of society I expect it'll be implemented before then.


NT

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 20:52:59 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article ,
harry writes
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:45:41 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.














https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable
energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the
sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity
will be cheaper.


Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit
so it is more expensive when the sun shines.

Yup.
Over £1200 worth generated this last quarter.
The sun shines for the righteous.
I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.
--
bert

You read wrong.
But they won't work at my house anyway.

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.

On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 14:22:17 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Andrew wrote:

tabbypurr wrote:

The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

By putting the price of liquid nitrogen up?

I thought it was liquid helium that was used. Liquid N is pretty cheap.

In article ,
writes
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:02:59 UTC+1, bert wrote:

The only reason we need demand management is because of the obsession
with stupid renewables.

No it's not. Matching demand to supply reduces generation &
infrastucture costs.

Not as much as renewables which requires double the generating plant. We
match supply to demand constantly right now.
There is an infinite supply of electricity in
the universe.

On earth there isn't.

Really what is the limit?
All you have to do is rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic
field FFS. The only overhead is the distribution infrastructure which
amounts to stringing a few more wires across the countryside on pylons
and a few transformers.

I think you'll find in both cases there's a good bit more to it

Not a lot.
I have throughout my lifetime had a continuous supply of the stuff as
much as I wanted whenever I wanted it.

I doubt that

You call this progress?

call what progress?

Having to organise my life around electricity supply.
Tell the greens to go **** themselves and build nukes.

Nukes are the CO2-free option. Demand management will at some point be
cheaper - that's all it is, a money saving measure, IF implemented when
it saves money. Given the political nature of society I expect it'll be
implemented before then.


NT

--
bert

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 09:15:30 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

Drivel Why would they?

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 17:48:23 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/07/2018 07:16, harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago.
It's all about renewable energy.
Especially in the early days.
When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

So if we take that to its logical extension, we could adjust FIT
payments to private generators using the same mechanism. So that on
bright sunny windy days, they near enough earn SFA, and then on cold
still winter nights they get enhanced payments.

Some commercial enterprises do that.
I did hear that there was a move afoot to use hospital emergency generators.

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 15:33:57 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/18 15:15, Robin wrote:
On 01/08/2018 14:16, Andrew wrote:
On 01/08/2018 08:52, wrote:
The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.

It's going to make the runninmg of all those 365/24 MRI scanners
with their superconductor magnets really expensive.

You mean all those scanners that the NHS only got around recently to
using _at all_ at weekends, let alone using 24/7?

https://www.theguardian.com/healthca...s-mri-scanners


Why the NHS isnt 24x7 is beyond me.

It is. But not everything.

On 02/08/2018 18:42, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 09:15:30 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

Drivel Why would they?


Because they do.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 09:15:30 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting
into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart
meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export
if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

Drivel

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of
it, ****wit.

Why would they?

Because thats what they pay you for in any jurisdiction with even half a
clue.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 07:26:36 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


Drivel

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of
it, ****wit.

Oh, just shut your senile gob, Ozzietard!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:15:56 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr writes
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:02:59 UTC+1, bert wrote:

The only reason we need demand management is because of the obsession
with stupid renewables.

No it's not. Matching demand to supply reduces generation &
infrastucture costs.

Not as much as renewables which requires double the generating plant. We
match supply to demand constantly right now.

of course they make it worse, but demand management has the potential to improve costs either way

There is an infinite supply of electricity in
the universe.

On earth there isn't.

Really what is the limit?

clue: it costs. Maybe you have infinite money, or delusions thereof.

All you have to do is rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic
field FFS. The only overhead is the distribution infrastructure which
amounts to stringing a few more wires across the countryside on pylons
and a few transformers.

I think you'll find in both cases there's a good bit more to it

Not a lot.

ookay

I have throughout my lifetime had a continuous supply of the stuff as
much as I wanted whenever I wanted it.

I doubt that

You call this progress?

call what progress?

Having to organise my life around electricity supply.

you don't have to
nor will you when demand management gets here. You can carry on as ever, immersion heater adjusting itself automatically, or you can if you choose trim costs by delaying some things. The unemployed will presumably do the latter. Or continue running out of money all the time.


NT

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:50:16 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 18:42, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 09:15:30 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

Drivel Why would they?


Because they do.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/e...ar-panels.html

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:02:59 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article ,
writes
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 00:04:36 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/07/2018 18:41, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.














https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/



I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you
don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your
usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price,
and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind
of quick indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice?

Its the usual bait and switch - get the punters to buy in with the
promise of discounts, and when its too late, they work out there are
strings.

Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is
still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the
tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also
used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range
to drive them to school anyway ;-)

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking
dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

Personally, no. However I expect that some people were sold on the idea
that this kind of scheme would make intermittent power generation
somehow more "useful", by allowing automatic "demand management".

The first wave of demand management will be for things like immersion
heaters, freezers, washing machines, dishwashers. Whether it will
produce much saving for the system overall is a fair question. A later
wave could cover all sorts of things, changes in background lighting,
perhaps going from left on to PIR operation etc etc. The billions of £
of equipment could save us at least tuppence.


NT
The only reason we need demand management is because of the obsession
with stupid renewables. There is an infinite supply of electricity in
the universe. All you have to do is rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic
field FFS. The only overhead is the distribution infrastructure which
amounts to stringing a few more wires across the countryside on pylons
and a few transformers.
I have throughout my lifetime had a continuous supply of the stuff as
much as I wanted whenever I wanted it. You call this progress?
Tell the greens to go **** themselves and build nukes.
--
bert

You don't get anything for nothing ****-fer-brains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:50:16 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 18:42, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 09:15:30 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting
into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart
meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export
if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

Drivel Why would they?


Because they do.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/e...ar-panels.html

As always, too stupid to even read what you post a link to.

That doesnt say that smart meters dont record
export, it ONLY says that the current in house
display doesnt DISPLAY what has been exported.

"bert" wrote in message ...

There is an infinite supply of electricity in the universe. All you have to do is
rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic field FFS.

Rotating a piece of wire requires energy.

More than is produced by rotating the wire.

Obviously.

As otherwise there would be no "energy problem" would there ?


michael adams

....

In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"bert" wrote in message ...

There is an infinite supply of electricity in the universe. All you have to do is
rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic field FFS.

Rotating a piece of wire requires energy.

More than is produced by rotating the wire.

Then you rotate several bits of wire to give you the energy for that one.
;-)

Obviously.

As otherwise there would be no "energy problem" would there ?


michael adams

...




--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/08/2018 07:09, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:50:16 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 18:42, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 2 August 2018 09:15:30 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/08/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 21:34:59 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/08/2018 20:48, bert wrote:

I did read somewhere that smart meters cannot tell the difference
between import and export so clock up all the solar you are putting into
the grid. I like the sound of that. I've just booked you a smart meter
install Harry.

Only a brexiteer would believe that.

You might get him on the actual export rather than the deemed export if
he has a smart meter.

Tch.
Export meters are only fitted to 30Kw+ installations.


Smart meters record export.

Drivel Why would they?


Because they do.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/e...ar-panels.html


So they are wrong about many things.

I know someone with a smart meter and panels.
The smart meter does record the exported units, the display doesn't show
them live but will show them if you switch to the meter readings page.

On 03/08/2018 10:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"bert" wrote in message ...

There is an infinite supply of electricity in the universe. All you have to do is
rotate a piece of wire in a magnetic field FFS.

Rotating a piece of wire requires energy.

More than is produced by rotating the wire.

Then you rotate several bits of wire to give you the energy for that one.
;-)


You power the rotation using the tides and then you can affect the
rotation rate of the planet.
Affecting the rotation rate of the planet really could destroy the
planet unlike climate change which can only make life difficult.