Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?

--
Mike Barnes

AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.

Elec companies do.

Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it

Jim K

On 23/01/14 17:59, Jim K wrote:
AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.

Elec companies do.

Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it


Or do it yourself and look puzzled if anyone mentions it.
I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
will sell you...


Jim K



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:33:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.

They certainly do - provided it supplies other premises. If it's just
you, they don't.

If the pole's also electricity, then the electric wayleave covers it.

Elec companies do.

Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it

Or do it yourself and look puzzled if anyone mentions it.
I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
will sell you...

They don't even use concrete. We've had a couple of new poles installed
by Western Power this week - the stay bases are buried about 2m down. THe
end has a plate on it, and is slotted through a hole in a ~2m length of
thick wood or resin (think thin railway sleeper, and you're not far off).

Big deep hole dug, lob the base down, backfill. Job jobbed.

One of the poles (12m, 400kg of transformer hanging from it) went down a
hole dug with a JCB bucket. The other (10m, just wires) went down a hole
drilled with an augur on a minidigger. Both had about 2m underground.
Again, no concrete. The old poles they removed (installed 1960s) didn't
have any concrete, either - they were just wiggled then yanked out with a
JCB.

On Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:33:12 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/14 17:59, Jim K wrote:

AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.



Elec companies do.



Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it

Or do it yourself and look puzzled if anyone mentions it.
I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
will sell you...


cherry picker possibly, wrangling thick cables definitely, Fing it up and/or getting rumbled - probably...

mmm take some pics (but digitise your face if you post em up ;)))

Jim K

Mike Barnes brought next idea :
Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a stay
which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an area that I
want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible to
the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level would be
dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they could
put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be forgiven for
assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but it isn't. They
aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much notice in the past
because this was just a piece of waste land as far we were concerned, but now
we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an anchor
moved?

This is the type of thing BT use http://tinyurl.com/ol2m8uy but BT ones
are about 5ft long - so no, they won't move it over a few inches for
you, or if they do, be prepared for a *very* big bill!

On 23/01/2014 16:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?


They moved a pole for us when it would have been in the way of
scaffolding I was considering. No argument, and it took them an hour at
most. Certainly not a d-i-y job

On 23/01/2014 16:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?

The first thing is to ask BT. The following number is for reporting
damage to BT plant but I am sure they can tell you who to contact.


0800 0232023



--
Peter Crosland

Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:33:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.

They certainly do - provided it supplies other premises.

It does supply other premises.

If the pole's also electricity, then the electric wayleave covers it.

It isn't also electricity. The electricity pole can also be seen in the
photo. Its predecessor had a stay in our garden, but the current one
doesn't. We get still wayleave payments, though. :-)

I'm puzzled by the logic of having just one stay on the telegraph pole.
The pull from the phone cables is pretty symmetrical and it seems odd to
restrain the pole in only one direction.

--
Mike Barnes

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't.

Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.

The cobbles and edging don't mean that bit of land is yours it's no
different to a droppped kerb and access slope across the public
pavement in an urban area.

As others have said if the poles only serves you expect a large bill
if it serves others probably no bill *if* the agree to move/remove
it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

You missed the trick of sabotage during the bad storms then.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jim K" wrote in message
...
AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.

Elec companies do.

Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it

Jim K

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't.

Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well behind
the wall - but they're not ancient.

One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.

--
Mike Barnes

Peter Crosland

Has provided the answer (perhaps unwillingly)...y

....Angle grinder!!

Jim K

Doh unwillingly = unwittingly

Feckin smart phones grrr

Jim K

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't.

Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well
behind the wall - but they're not ancient.

The usual assumption by BT is that the verge is part of the highway and
hence not private land. When we bought the land here, one of my most
rewarding activities was to extract a *one off* payment from their
wayleaves dept. for buried cables, stays and poles.

As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.

One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.

Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
of £35.00.

FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Mike Barnes
writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't.

Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well
behind the wall - but they're not ancient.

The usual assumption by BT is that the verge is part of the highway and
hence not private land. When we bought the land here, one of my most
rewarding activities was to extract a *one off* payment from their
wayleaves dept. for buried cables, stays and poles.

As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.

One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.

Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
of £35.00.

FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ

Thanks for the information - kept. I'll be getting a contractor in
shortly and he has bags of experience and might be able to contribute
something as well. This thread has helped prepare me - thanks to all.

--
Mike Barnes

In article , Mike Barnes
scribeth thus
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't.

Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well behind
the wall - but they're not ancient.

One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.


Are the cables coming from the one direction?.

If so the stay should be on the opposite side.

Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.

Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.

--
Tony Sayer

..

Mike Barnes scribbled...


Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?


Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
You appear to live on a country lane, so I can't see anyone having a
problem with you flattening out an area there, and as you claim to own
that bit of verge (which I doubt) you can do what you like anyway.

Mike Barnes wrote:
Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road?

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability.

Deeds. Not the location map, which is just indicates whereabouts
the plot is, but the *written* section and any boundaries/meering
map - which most deeds don't have.

jgh

Artic wrote:
Mike Barnes scribbled...


Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?

Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?

I was hoping to stay within the side boundary.

Four wheelie bins, by the way. Black, brown, blue, green.

--
Mike Barnes

tony sayer wrote:
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.

Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.

Cables go in four directions.

I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.

My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables.
It's there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You
lean the ladder against the side where the stay is.

If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety
of a BT "engineer" might be at stake.

--
Mike Barnes

On 23/01/2014 22:44, Mike Barnes wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Mike Barnes
writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether
they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public
highway, but
it isn't.

Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well
behind the wall - but they're not ancient.

The usual assumption by BT is that the verge is part of the highway and
hence not private land. When we bought the land here, one of my most
rewarding activities was to extract a *one off* payment from their
wayleaves dept. for buried cables, stays and poles.

As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.

One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.

Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
of £35.00.

FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ

Thanks for the information - kept. I'll be getting a contractor in
shortly and he has bags of experience and might be able to contribute
something as well. This thread has helped prepare me - thanks to all.

You would be very foolish to interfere with the stay, or get anyone else
to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than
you do!



--
Peter Crosland

Mike Barnes wrote:
tony sayer wrote:
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.

Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.

Cables go in four directions.

I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.

My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables.
It's there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You
lean the ladder against the side where the stay is.

If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety of
a BT "engineer" might be at stake.


Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried pole
to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.

Tim

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:50:20 +0000, Steve wrote:

This is the type of thing BT use http://tinyurl.com/ol2m8uy but BT ones
are about 5ft long - so no, they won't move it over a few inches for
you, or if they do, be prepared for a *very* big bill!

Indeed. The changes to the electricity poles I mentioned in another reply
have left what used to be an electric pole now solely BT. BT want £200 to
come and look at it and even begin discussions about it.

Hey-ho. The trench they COULD have put their cable down has been filled
now, and they've admitted they have no wayleave over my land.

In article , Mike Barnes
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.

Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.

Cables go in four directions.

I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.

My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables.
It's there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You
lean the ladder against the side where the stay is.

If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety
of a BT "engineer" might be at stake.


Humm... Do you think that stay could move in the night perhaps;?.....
--
Tony Sayer

As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.

One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.

Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
of £35.00.

FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ

Thanks for the information - kept. I'll be getting a contractor in
shortly and he has bags of experience and might be able to contribute
something as well. This thread has helped prepare me - thanks to all.

You would be very foolish to interfere with the stay, or get anyone else
to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than
you do!




Mind you its often surprising what those olde Pikey boys can do when
there're after nicking a bit of copper phone wire isn't it;?...

--
Tony Sayer

Mike Barnes scribbled...



Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?

I was hoping to stay within the side boundary.

Four wheelie bins, by the way. Black, brown, blue, green.


You're out in the sticks, no one gives a flying **** where you put your
bins.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)

There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an area
that I want to use for wheelie bins.

Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq...T%20anchor.jpg

I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible to
the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level would be
dropped a few inches as well.

The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.

So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an anchor
moved?

I would say both the pole and stay are in the verge.
The position of your own gate/wall probably indicates the boundary of your
property.
The bit btween your gate and the road is the verge and not yours.
The council will have definative drawings if the highway has been widened in
the last hundred years or so.
Or
See if you can establish the width of the verge elsewhere where it is better
defined (eg where there is another wall next to the verge.) You will likely
find it is the same as your bit of wall.
A metre wide /yard is common in rural areas.
5m in reecent constructions.

harry wrote:
The bit between your gate and the road is the verge
and not yours.

You can't use rules of thumb like that. He could well own
everything to the centre of the road, and edge of the the
adopted highway could be anywhere between the edge of the
tarmac and the garden wall, or anywhere else.

The local highways authority doesn't have to own the land
that its adopted highways travel over, and the width of
the adopted highway is not automatically garden-wall-to-
garden-wall.

jgh

PC Crosland quivered:
You would be very foolish to interfere with the stay, or get anyone else to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than you do!

--Peter Crosland/quiver

Surely you would be extraordinarily stupid to get caught or admit to knowing anything about it, even if anyone ever noticed ever?

Jim K

On Friday, January 24, 2014 11:14:44 AM UTC, Huge wrote:
On 2014-01-23, Mike Barnes wrote:



So, does anyone know what's underneath there?



A giant corkscrew, if having the poles in my garden changed was anything

to go by. We decided where the stay should go, then he drove it in with

a hydraulic motor attachment on the 6x6 Unimog he was using.





--

Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180

"Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The

Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are

Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"

just curious that they are still called Telegraph poles. How long is it since we used telegraphs.

Round here we call them Telephone poles.

I would agree with their method of erecting them. A slop of concrete at the bottom of a hole does very little. I prefer to dig the hole deep enough and wide enough to allow me get some various stones around the post as I back fill, Effect somewhat similar to strengthening concrete with gravel. We put up post and rail fencing using this method 25 years ago and its still solid

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 11:17:18 +0000, Huge wrote:

Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried
pole to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.

There are 11 phone poles down my drive supporting phone cables (not
power). None of the are stayed, except where the line goes round a
corner (and not always then.)

If the cable loads on each side are equal-ish, no stay needed. The stays
counteract the cable loads.

In message , Huge
writes
Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried pole
to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.

There are 11 phone poles down my drive supporting phone cables (not
power). None of the are stayed, except where the line goes round a corner
(and not always then.)

I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.

No charge on that occasion:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In article , tony sayer
writes
In article , Mike Barnes
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.

Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.

Cables go in four directions.

I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.

My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables.
It's there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You
lean the ladder against the side where the stay is.

If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety
of a BT "engineer" might be at stake.


Humm... Do you think that stay could move in the night perhaps;?.....

I'm sure a new anchor point could go in anytime (carefully located so
that there would be little or no change in the stay length), reducing
the duration of any night-time activities.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Friday, January 24, 2014 1:54:02 PM UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Huge

writes

Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried pole

to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.



There are 11 phone poles down my drive supporting phone cables (not

power). None of the are stayed, except where the line goes round a corner

(and not always then.)



I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.

presume the cables were a bit heavier than phone wire?

Jim K

wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road?

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability.

Deeds. Not the location map, which is just indicates whereabouts
the plot is, but the *written* section and any boundaries/meering
map - which most deeds don't have.

Do "deeds" have any significance nowadays? I have the Land Registry map
which shows the location of the property with a red border but that's
not particularly precise.

I also have a title document dated 1811 (hand-written on parchment, wax
seals, etc, with a Land Registry tag) which says "bounded [...] by the
highway or road". But I have no idea whether "highway or road" would
include any verge.

I'm not sure how relevant all this is now, but I'm interested. Not
interested enough to pay a solicitor, though. :-)

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes explained on 24/01/2014 :
tony sayer wrote:
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.

Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.

Cables go in four directions.

I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.

My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables. It's
there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You lean the
ladder against the side where the stay is.

No, the stays are there to counteract the weight and pull of the
cables.

If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety of a
BT "engineer" might be at stake.

And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. If you really must have
it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
that's in the ground and anything could happen.

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:59:26 +0000, Steve wrote:

And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. If you really must have
it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
that's in the ground

I don't even want to consider what the preservatives on these things is -
but the poles that were removed from here the other day - after 51 years
in the ground - were _perfect_.

The new ones _stink_...

On 24/01/2014 17:00, Mike Barnes wrote:
wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road?

Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
accuracy and reliability.

Deeds. Not the location map, which is just indicates whereabouts
the plot is, but the *written* section and any boundaries/meering
map - which most deeds don't have.

Do "deeds" have any significance nowadays? I have the Land Registry map
which shows the location of the property with a red border but that's
not particularly precise.

I also have a title document dated 1811 (hand-written on parchment, wax
seals, etc, with a Land Registry tag) which says "bounded [...] by the
highway or road". But I have no idea whether "highway or road" would
include any verge.

I'm not sure how relevant all this is now, but I'm interested. Not
interested enough to pay a solicitor, though. :-)

The Land Registry entry replaces the deeds but all the relevant
information from the deeds should be incorporated in them. The Land
Registry only indicates what they call general boundaries. These are not
precise but serve for most purposes. If the exact boundary needs to be
determined then the services of a specialist surveyor are needed. This
site is a good place to start if you need to.

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/

There are no hard and fast rules and what may seem obvious from the plan
may not be correct. As an example when I purchased my current house my
solicitor queried the ownership of the small pull in that is in front of
the gates. The local highway authority claimed ownership although the
Land registry plan suggested otherwise. This was in a poor state of
repair and although the road had recently been resurfaced the pull in
was seriously potholed. In fact it was one big pothole! So I asked the
them to repair it. The reply was it was not their responsibility. The
letters claiming ownership and denying it were signed by the same
person! After further correspondence the repairs were carried out.
Persistence counts.


--
Peter Crosland

Adrian laid this down on his screen :
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:59:26 +0000, Steve wrote:

And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. If you really must have
it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
that's in the ground

I don't even want to consider what the preservatives on these things is -
but the poles that were removed from here the other day - after 51 years
in the ground - were _perfect_.

They often are, but I've also seen some rotten ones that *looked*
perfect. I was a cable jointer on BT for about 20 years and the oldest
pole I've been up was 76 years old and perfect - but I've seen
condemned poles that have been about 30 years old or less. Poles are
tested on a 10-year cycle (or were in my day, may have changed now) by
official pole testers, but as engineers, we're also supposed to make
certain checks before climbing - and I don't want anyone putting my
life at risk by tampering with the stays (or I wouldn't if I was still
doing the job).