Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

Nick Odell wrote

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

It hasnt.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up
for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if
you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able
to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals.

On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Nick Odell wrote

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

It hasnt.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up
for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if
you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able
to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals.
Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push
everyone to variable ones.

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Nick Odell wrote

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

It hasnt.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign
up
for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals
if
you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able
to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals.

Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push
everyone to variable ones.

Not possible because while ever one doesnt do that,
everyone will change to the one that doesn't do that.

And they can't legally collude on all doing that either.

On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago.
It's all about renewable energy.
Especially in the early days.
When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago.
It's all about renewable energy.
Especially in the early days.
When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be
expensive.

Not when the country has enough of a clue to have nukes or coal fired power.

But they can do that anyway, which is why it often pays to get a yearly
contract as I do.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour,
and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

tim

On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't
know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage.

--
Max Demian

On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I see nothing new of substance in the article - let alone a proposal to
introduce unannounced changes in tariffs. Ofgem's consultation makes
clear it's all about "incentives...to help their customers shift their
consumption to times when electricity is cheaper to generate or transport."

And the consultation is on a very narrow point: giving suppliers more
access to half-hourly consumption data - and then only for suppliers to
settle _their_ purchases. The data isn't going to be available for
research and policy analysis. To that extent, I think the Telegraph
writer has misunderstood what Ofgem are doing. I could not possibly
comment on how/why.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

"tim..." wrote in message news


"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that
is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Who says ?

The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their
behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the
things, and always has been, from day one.

Why would any company promote devices that will allow their customers
to use less of their product ?

They have to make some gestures in that direction by way of cheaper tariffs etc.
but that's all they ever were. Gestures.

While knowing damn all about the actual technicalities assuming they're buying
electricity at current wholesale prices on the fly, than differential pricing in
response to demand, would enable them to match the price they're currently paying.
Which might mean lower prices for customers or bigger profits for the
providers, maybe with a nice expenses paid fact finding trip to the Caribbean
for the regulator, thrown in.

Which would also be useful in the event of shortages - at least for those who were
willing and able to pay

Presumably some caps would need to be put in place however.


michael adams

....

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour,
and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

tim

I can't see multi-rate charging being anything but inevitable. It reduces the cost price per kWh for both generation & distribution, so it'll happen. Of course it'll be marketed as a user money saving scheme, and of course the total cost will be greater not less. What's new.


NT

In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable
energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the
sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity
will be cheaper.

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 31/07/2018 00:34, Steve Walker wrote:
On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Nick Odell wrote

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

It hasnt.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to
sign up
for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those
deals if
you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able
to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals.
Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push
everyone to variable ones.

SteveW

Well if they do then you will want a smart meter.

There are some smart meter tariffs that benefit some of the consumers,
like the free days and electric car charging ones.

If you are unlucky they won't benefit you.

On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable
energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the
sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity
will be cheaper.


Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit
so it is more expensive when the sun shines.

On 31/07/2018 07:16, harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago.
It's all about renewable energy.
Especially in the early days.
When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

So if we take that to its logical extension, we could adjust FIT
payments to private generators using the same mechanism. So that on
bright sunny windy days, they near enough earn SFA, and then on cold
still winter nights they get enhanced payments.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't
know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and
give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of
quick indication.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user
behaviour, and that
is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Who says ?

which bit?

The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing
their
behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the
things, and always has been, from day one.

That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades
people to change their behaviour

Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use
dynamic pricing?

tim

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user
behaviour,
and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

tim

I can't see multi-rate charging being anything but inevitable. It reduces
the cost price per kWh for both generation & distribution, so it'll
happen.

if that saving is passed onto the consumer

Of course it'll be marketed as a user money saving scheme, and of course
the total cost will be greater not less.

if that's the case then the regulator wont allow it

what's so hard to understand

tim

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't
know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and
give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick
indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner,
or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

You'll see...

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user
behaviour,

Yes it can if the user can see the rate they will be paying at the time.

and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Thats wrong too. The other reason is to recoup the cost
of buying the power when the cost of the power is higher.

"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't
know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage.

But its trivial to show the user the current cost of the power.

And the other point is to charge the user more than you are
paying for the power, particularly when the cost of the power
is higher in peak times, when the standby gas fuelled generators
have had to be fired up due to a lack of 'renewable' power.

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:45:41 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable
energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the
sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity
will be cheaper.


Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit
so it is more expensive when the sun shines.

Yup.
Over £1200 worth generated this last quarter.
The sun shines for the righteous.

"tim..." wrote in message news


"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"tim..." wrote in message news


"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that
is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Who says ?

which bit?

The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their
behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the
things, and always has been, from day one.

That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades people to
change their behaviour

You spoke of "differential charging" above. And you claimed that the only reason
suppliers would introduce "differential charging" would be to change user
behaviour. Which is clearly impossibe. Whereas I suggested *another*
reason why suppliers would want to introduce "differential charging".

Now you've decided you want to talk about "dynamic pricing" instead.


Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use dynamic
pricing?

That was explained above. The supplier will be buying electricity at a
constantly changing spot price reflecting both the current supply
situations as generating capacity goes on and off stream and current
demand.

At the moment however the consumer pays a fixed price with maybe
lower tarrifs to take up the slack in the system at periods of low
demand.

If the supplier can adjust his price according to the spot price he
has to pay then even with a 1/2 hr time lag this should eventually
bring down demand. So he can buy at a lower spot price when
there's less demand . Consumers don't have to sit staring at the meter
they simply view the price changes retrospectively on their
puters. Maybe days later. So they can eventually work out that maybe
6-7 in the evening might be a bad time to do something. Which will
either reduce prices, increase profits or both. It simply makes
for a more efficient market.

But this is entirely different from the single-price proposition
(i.e bull****) in the original marketing. Whereby it was suggested
that by constantly monitoring their smart meter customers would be
switching stuff off rather than leaving it on standbye, boiling
less water in the electric kettle etc etc Basically the sort of
tightarses who will be attracted to that sort of thing haven't
been sitting around for years, waiting for smart meters to
appear on the scene.


michael adams

....




tim

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 12:49:40 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message news


"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that
is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Who says ?

The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their
behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the
things, and always has been, from day one.

Why would any company promote devices that will allow their customers
to use less of their product ?

They have to make some gestures in that direction by way of cheaper tariffs etc.
but that's all they ever were. Gestures.

While knowing damn all about the actual technicalities assuming they're buying
electricity at current wholesale prices on the fly, than differential pricing in
response to demand, would enable them to match the price they're currently paying.
Which might mean lower prices for customers or bigger profits for the
providers, maybe with a nice expenses paid fact finding trip to the Caribbean
for the regulator, thrown in.

Which would also be useful in the event of shortages - at least for those who were
willing and able to pay

Presumably some caps would need to be put in place however.


michael adams

...

For those on the ball, it will be possible to save money, even make more money.
You're not clever are you? So you won't be among them.

The shape of things to come. (Negative electricity prices.)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/b...ve-prices.html

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 18:43:17 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't
know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and
give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick
indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner,
or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

You are going to watch the weather forecast ****-fer-brains.
I 'spect there'll be special electricity price forecasts too.
I 'spect there'll be computer software soon to turn non-essential stuff off automatically if prices go up.

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:42:26 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I see nothing new of substance in the article - let alone a proposal to
introduce unannounced changes in tariffs. Ofgem's consultation makes
clear it's all about "incentives...to help their customers shift their
consumption to times when electricity is cheaper to generate or transport."

And the consultation is on a very narrow point: giving suppliers more
access to half-hourly consumption data - and then only for suppliers to
settle _their_ purchases. The data isn't going to be available for
research and policy analysis. To that extent, I think the Telegraph
writer has misunderstood what Ofgem are doing. I could not possibly
comment on how/why.


All part of the thin edge of the wedge.
If you had even half a brain, the future would be quite clear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

On 31/07/2018 15:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 00:34, Steve Walker wrote:
On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Nick Odell wrote

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

It hasnt.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to
sign up
for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those
deals if
you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able
to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals.
Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push
everyone to variable ones.

SteveW

Well if they do then you will want a smart meter.

There are some smart meter tariffs that benefit some of the consumers,
like the free days and electric car charging ones.

If you are unlucky they won't benefit you.

If smart meters were truly to benefit the customers, they'd be using the
system that was tested probably 20 years ago. That was for a small
housing estate rather than a single house, but similar ideas could
apply. Instead of electricity providers adjusting the price that
consumers would pay to manage demand, the estate switched providers
every half-hour to whoever was offering the lowest price. Now that sort
of smart meter, I might be more interested in.

SteveW

"harry" wrote in message
...

The shape of things to come. (Negative electricity prices.)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/b...ve-prices.html

How comes they're showing a picture of Turnip's house.
when the article is supposed to be about Germany ?

michael adams

....

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user
behaviour, and that
is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Who says ?

which bit?

The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing
their
behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the
things, and always has been, from day one.

That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades
people to change their behaviour

Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use
dynamic pricing?

To discourage people from using power when the price they are
charging the user is less than what they are paying for the power
at peak times or when the 'renewables' arent producing and they
have to buy power from France or fire up the most expensive
gas powered generators.

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't
know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and
give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of
quick indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

Thats not true. Yes, most will chose to not vary the time that they
cook dinner or boil the jug to make some tea, but plenty will change
the time that they do other less time critical stuff like run the dishwasher
and washing machine.

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking
dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

No, but you may well choose to run the dishwasher and washing machine
at other than the time when everyone is cooking their dinner etc,
particularly
when its so easy to tell the dishwasher to only run after say 1am etc.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"tim..." wrote in message
news


"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"tim..." wrote in message
news

"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user
behaviour, and that
is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

Who says ?

which bit?

The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by
changing their
behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the
things, and always has been, from day one.

That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades
people to change their behaviour

You spoke of "differential charging" above. And you claimed that the only
reason suppliers would introduce "differential charging" would be to
change user behaviour. Which is clearly impossibe.

Corse its not impossible with some appliances
like dishwashers and washing machines.

Whereas I suggested *another* reason why suppliers would want to introduce
"differential charging".

Now you've decided you want to talk about "dynamic pricing" instead.


Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use
dynamic pricing?

That was explained above. The supplier will be buying electricity at a
constantly changing spot price reflecting both the current supply
situations as generating capacity goes on and off stream and current
demand.

At the moment however the consumer pays a fixed price with maybe
lower tarrifs to take up the slack in the system at periods of low
demand.

If the supplier can adjust his price according to the spot price he
has to pay then even with a 1/2 hr time lag this should eventually
bring down demand. So he can buy at a lower spot price when
there's less demand . Consumers don't have to sit staring at the meter
they simply view the price changes retrospectively on their
puters. Maybe days later. So they can eventually work out that maybe
6-7 in the evening might be a bad time to do something. Which will
either reduce prices, increase profits or both. It simply makes
for a more efficient market.

But this is entirely different from the single-price proposition
(i.e bull****) in the original marketing. Whereby it was suggested
that by constantly monitoring their smart meter customers would be
switching stuff off rather than leaving it on standbye, boiling
less water in the electric kettle etc etc Basically the sort of
tightarses who will be attracted to that sort of thing haven't
been sitting around for years, waiting for smart meters to
appear on the scene.

On 31/07/2018 19:20, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:42:26 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


I see nothing new of substance in the article - let alone a proposal to
introduce unannounced changes in tariffs. Ofgem's consultation makes
clear it's all about "incentives...to help their customers shift their
consumption to times when electricity is cheaper to generate or transport."

And the consultation is on a very narrow point: giving suppliers more
access to half-hourly consumption data - and then only for suppliers to
settle _their_ purchases. The data isn't going to be available for
research and policy analysis. To that extent, I think the Telegraph
writer has misunderstood what Ofgem are doing. I could not possibly
comment on how/why.


All part of the thin edge of the wedge.
If you had even half a brain, the future would be quite clear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

If you put aside your presumptions and re-read more carefully what I
posted you may see that I said nothing to dispute that smart meters and
demand management go hand in hand. I was merely pointing out that the
Telegraph article, and the underlying Ofgem consultation document,
involve not on jot or tittle of further progress towards it.

If you would like that repeated, with gratuitous insults, just ask.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 05:21:12 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

FLUSH senile idiot's usual senile drivel

when its so easy to tell the dishwasher to only run after say 1am etc.

You senile gob will keep running and drooling at ANY time of the day or
night, eh, you sleepless senile Ozzie cretin? LOL

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
MID:

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 04:06:11 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

But its trivial to show

FLUSH senile filth

What could be more trivial than your idiotic trolling, Ozzietard?

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On 31/07/2018 18:41, tim... wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/



I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you
don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your
usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price,
and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind
of quick indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice?

Its the usual bait and switch - get the punters to buy in with the
promise of discounts, and when its too late, they work out there are
strings.

Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is
still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the
tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also
used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range
to drive them to school anyway ;-)

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking
dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

Personally, no. However I expect that some people were sold on the idea
that this kind of scheme would make intermittent power generation
somehow more "useful", by allowing automatic "demand management".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 18:40:35 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/


the meters might

I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it.

A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user
behaviour,
and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging.

tim

I can't see multi-rate charging being anything but inevitable. It reduces
the cost price per kWh for both generation & distribution, so it'll
happen.

if that saving is passed onto the consumer

obviously that's not what motivates electricity companies or governments

Of course it'll be marketed as a user money saving scheme, and of course
the total cost will be greater not less.

if that's the case then the regulator wont allow it

what's so hard to understand

why you think that

tim


NT

On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 00:04:36 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/07/2018 18:41, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:

Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/



I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you
don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your
usage.

Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price,
and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind
of quick indication.

but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage
when the spot price changes

What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice?

Its the usual bait and switch - get the punters to buy in with the
promise of discounts, and when its too late, they work out there are
strings.

Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is
still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the
tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also
used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range
to drive them to school anyway ;-)

Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking
dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice?

Personally, no. However I expect that some people were sold on the idea
that this kind of scheme would make intermittent power generation
somehow more "useful", by allowing automatic "demand management".

The first wave of demand management will be for things like immersion heaters, freezers, washing machines, dishwashers. Whether it will produce much saving for the system overall is a fair question. A later wave could cover all sorts of things, changes in background lighting, perhaps going from left on to PIR operation etc etc. The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence.


NT

wrote in message
...

The first wave of demand management will be for things like .... freezers,

Yup.

Demand management for appliances controlled by thermostats.

Who'd have thunk it ?

Presumably it switches the thermostat off first.


michael adams

....

harry Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:45:41 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/

Nick

This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable
energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the
sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive.

Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity
will be cheaper.


Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit
so it is more expensive when the sun shines.

Yup.
Over £1200 worth generated this last quarter.
The sun shines for the righteous.


Itym pious
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/