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Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
Nick Odell wrote
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. It hasnt. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote:
Nick Odell wrote Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. It hasnt. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals. Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push everyone to variable ones. SteveW |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote: Nick Odell wrote Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. It hasnt. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals. Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push everyone to variable ones. Not possible because while ever one doesnt do that, everyone will change to the one that doesn't do that. And they can't legally collude on all doing that either. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"harry" wrote in message ... On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. Not when the country has enough of a clue to have nukes or coal fired power. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
But they can do that anyway, which is why it often pays to get a yearly
contract as I do. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. tim |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. -- Max Demian |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote:
Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I see nothing new of substance in the article - let alone a proposal to introduce unannounced changes in tariffs. Ofgem's consultation makes clear it's all about "incentives...to help their customers shift their consumption to times when electricity is cheaper to generate or transport." And the consultation is on a very narrow point: giving suppliers more access to half-hourly consumption data - and then only for suppliers to settle _their_ purchases. The data isn't going to be available for research and policy analysis. To that extent, I think the Telegraph writer has misunderstood what Ofgem are doing. I could not possibly comment on how/why. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Who says ? The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the things, and always has been, from day one. Why would any company promote devices that will allow their customers to use less of their product ? They have to make some gestures in that direction by way of cheaper tariffs etc. but that's all they ever were. Gestures. While knowing damn all about the actual technicalities assuming they're buying electricity at current wholesale prices on the fly, than differential pricing in response to demand, would enable them to match the price they're currently paying. Which might mean lower prices for customers or bigger profits for the providers, maybe with a nice expenses paid fact finding trip to the Caribbean for the regulator, thrown in. Which would also be useful in the event of shortages - at least for those who were willing and able to pay Presumably some caps would need to be put in place however. michael adams .... |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. tim I can't see multi-rate charging being anything but inevitable. It reduces the cost price per kWh for both generation & distribution, so it'll happen. Of course it'll be marketed as a user money saving scheme, and of course the total cost will be greater not less. What's new. NT |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
In article ,
harry wrote: On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity will be cheaper. -- *Acupuncture is a jab well done* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 00:34, Steve Walker wrote:
On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote: Nick Odell wrote Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. It hasnt. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals. Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push everyone to variable ones. SteveW Well if they do then you will want a smart meter. There are some smart meter tariffs that benefit some of the consumers, like the free days and electric car charging ones. If you are unlucky they won't benefit you. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , harry wrote: On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity will be cheaper. Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit so it is more expensive when the sun shines. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 07:16, harry wrote:
On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. So if we take that to its logical extension, we could adjust FIT payments to private generators using the same mechanism. So that on bright sunny windy days, they near enough earn SFA, and then on cold still winter nights they get enhanced payments. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick indication. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... "tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Who says ? which bit? The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the things, and always has been, from day one. That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades people to change their behaviour Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use dynamic pricing? tim |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
wrote in message ... On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. tim I can't see multi-rate charging being anything but inevitable. It reduces the cost price per kWh for both generation & distribution, so it'll happen. if that saving is passed onto the consumer Of course it'll be marketed as a user money saving scheme, and of course the total cost will be greater not less. if that's the case then the regulator wont allow it what's so hard to understand tim |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote: On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick indication. but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage when the spot price changes Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice? |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. You'll see... A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, Yes it can if the user can see the rate they will be paying at the time. and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Thats wrong too. The other reason is to recoup the cost of buying the power when the cost of the power is higher. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"Max Demian" wrote in message o.uk... On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. But its trivial to show the user the current cost of the power. And the other point is to charge the user more than you are paying for the power, particularly when the cost of the power is higher in peak times, when the standby gas fuelled generators have had to be fired up due to a lack of 'renewable' power. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:45:41 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , harry wrote: On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity will be cheaper. Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit so it is more expensive when the sun shines. Yup. Over £1200 worth generated this last quarter. The sun shines for the righteous. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"tim..." wrote in message ... "michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... "tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Who says ? which bit? The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the things, and always has been, from day one. That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades people to change their behaviour You spoke of "differential charging" above. And you claimed that the only reason suppliers would introduce "differential charging" would be to change user behaviour. Which is clearly impossibe. Whereas I suggested *another* reason why suppliers would want to introduce "differential charging". Now you've decided you want to talk about "dynamic pricing" instead. Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use dynamic pricing? That was explained above. The supplier will be buying electricity at a constantly changing spot price reflecting both the current supply situations as generating capacity goes on and off stream and current demand. At the moment however the consumer pays a fixed price with maybe lower tarrifs to take up the slack in the system at periods of low demand. If the supplier can adjust his price according to the spot price he has to pay then even with a 1/2 hr time lag this should eventually bring down demand. So he can buy at a lower spot price when there's less demand . Consumers don't have to sit staring at the meter they simply view the price changes retrospectively on their puters. Maybe days later. So they can eventually work out that maybe 6-7 in the evening might be a bad time to do something. Which will either reduce prices, increase profits or both. It simply makes for a more efficient market. But this is entirely different from the single-price proposition (i.e bull****) in the original marketing. Whereby it was suggested that by constantly monitoring their smart meter customers would be switching stuff off rather than leaving it on standbye, boiling less water in the electric kettle etc etc Basically the sort of tightarses who will be attracted to that sort of thing haven't been sitting around for years, waiting for smart meters to appear on the scene. michael adams .... tim |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 12:49:40 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Who says ? The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the things, and always has been, from day one. Why would any company promote devices that will allow their customers to use less of their product ? They have to make some gestures in that direction by way of cheaper tariffs etc. but that's all they ever were. Gestures. While knowing damn all about the actual technicalities assuming they're buying electricity at current wholesale prices on the fly, than differential pricing in response to demand, would enable them to match the price they're currently paying. Which might mean lower prices for customers or bigger profits for the providers, maybe with a nice expenses paid fact finding trip to the Caribbean for the regulator, thrown in. Which would also be useful in the event of shortages - at least for those who were willing and able to pay Presumably some caps would need to be put in place however. michael adams ... For those on the ball, it will be possible to save money, even make more money. You're not clever are you? So you won't be among them. The shape of things to come. (Negative electricity prices.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/b...ve-prices.html |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 18:43:17 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote: On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick indication. but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage when the spot price changes Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice? You are going to watch the weather forecast ****-fer-brains. I 'spect there'll be special electricity price forecasts too. I 'spect there'll be computer software soon to turn non-essential stuff off automatically if prices go up. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:42:26 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I see nothing new of substance in the article - let alone a proposal to introduce unannounced changes in tariffs. Ofgem's consultation makes clear it's all about "incentives...to help their customers shift their consumption to times when electricity is cheaper to generate or transport." And the consultation is on a very narrow point: giving suppliers more access to half-hourly consumption data - and then only for suppliers to settle _their_ purchases. The data isn't going to be available for research and policy analysis. To that extent, I think the Telegraph writer has misunderstood what Ofgem are doing. I could not possibly comment on how/why. All part of the thin edge of the wedge. If you had even half a brain, the future would be quite clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 15:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2018 00:34, Steve Walker wrote: On 31/07/2018 00:20, Rod Speed wrote: Nick Odell wrote Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. It hasnt. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Thats just saying that the new deals will be available for you to sign up for if you like them, not that you will have to sign up for those deals if you have a smart meter. Obviously a smart meter is needed to be able to bill you like that if you choose to have one of those new deals. Until they push up the price of non-variable tariffs enough to push everyone to variable ones. SteveW Well if they do then you will want a smart meter. There are some smart meter tariffs that benefit some of the consumers, like the free days and electric car charging ones. If you are unlucky they won't benefit you. If smart meters were truly to benefit the customers, they'd be using the system that was tested probably 20 years ago. That was for a small housing estate rather than a single house, but similar ideas could apply. Instead of electricity providers adjusting the price that consumers would pay to manage demand, the estate switched providers every half-hour to whoever was offering the lowest price. Now that sort of smart meter, I might be more interested in. SteveW |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"harry" wrote in message ... The shape of things to come. (Negative electricity prices.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/b...ve-prices.html How comes they're showing a picture of Turnip's house. when the article is supposed to be about Germany ? michael adams .... |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"tim..." wrote in message ... "michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... "tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Who says ? which bit? The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the things, and always has been, from day one. That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades people to change their behaviour Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use dynamic pricing? To discourage people from using power when the price they are charging the user is less than what they are paying for the power at peak times or when the 'renewables' arent producing and they have to buy power from France or fire up the most expensive gas powered generators. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"tim..." wrote in message ... "John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote: On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick indication. but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage when the spot price changes Thats not true. Yes, most will chose to not vary the time that they cook dinner or boil the jug to make some tea, but plenty will change the time that they do other less time critical stuff like run the dishwasher and washing machine. Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice? No, but you may well choose to run the dishwasher and washing machine at other than the time when everyone is cooking their dinner etc, particularly when its so easy to tell the dishwasher to only run after say 1am etc. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
"michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... "tim..." wrote in message ... "michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... "tim..." wrote in message ... "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. Who says ? which bit? The idea that these things will allow customers to save money by changing their behaviour is simply marketing bull**** to persuade people to accept the things, and always has been, from day one. That's completely different from the idea that dynamic pricing persuades people to change their behaviour You spoke of "differential charging" above. And you claimed that the only reason suppliers would introduce "differential charging" would be to change user behaviour. Which is clearly impossibe. Corse its not impossible with some appliances like dishwashers and washing machines. Whereas I suggested *another* reason why suppliers would want to introduce "differential charging". Now you've decided you want to talk about "dynamic pricing" instead. Why (other than because you can) would a supplier justify wanting to use dynamic pricing? That was explained above. The supplier will be buying electricity at a constantly changing spot price reflecting both the current supply situations as generating capacity goes on and off stream and current demand. At the moment however the consumer pays a fixed price with maybe lower tarrifs to take up the slack in the system at periods of low demand. If the supplier can adjust his price according to the spot price he has to pay then even with a 1/2 hr time lag this should eventually bring down demand. So he can buy at a lower spot price when there's less demand . Consumers don't have to sit staring at the meter they simply view the price changes retrospectively on their puters. Maybe days later. So they can eventually work out that maybe 6-7 in the evening might be a bad time to do something. Which will either reduce prices, increase profits or both. It simply makes for a more efficient market. But this is entirely different from the single-price proposition (i.e bull****) in the original marketing. Whereby it was suggested that by constantly monitoring their smart meter customers would be switching stuff off rather than leaving it on standbye, boiling less water in the electric kettle etc etc Basically the sort of tightarses who will be attracted to that sort of thing haven't been sitting around for years, waiting for smart meters to appear on the scene. |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 19:20, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:42:26 UTC+1, Robin wrote: On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I see nothing new of substance in the article - let alone a proposal to introduce unannounced changes in tariffs. Ofgem's consultation makes clear it's all about "incentives...to help their customers shift their consumption to times when electricity is cheaper to generate or transport." And the consultation is on a very narrow point: giving suppliers more access to half-hourly consumption data - and then only for suppliers to settle _their_ purchases. The data isn't going to be available for research and policy analysis. To that extent, I think the Telegraph writer has misunderstood what Ofgem are doing. I could not possibly comment on how/why. All part of the thin edge of the wedge. If you had even half a brain, the future would be quite clear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management If you put aside your presumptions and re-read more carefully what I posted you may see that I said nothing to dispute that smart meters and demand management go hand in hand. I was merely pointing out that the Telegraph article, and the underlying Ofgem consultation document, involve not on jot or tittle of further progress towards it. If you would like that repeated, with gratuitous insults, just ask. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 05:21:12 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
FLUSH senile idiot's usual senile drivel when its so easy to tell the dishwasher to only run after say 1am etc. You senile gob will keep running and drooling at ANY time of the day or night, eh, you sleepless senile Ozzie cretin? LOL -- Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed: "You really are a clueless pillock." MID: |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 04:06:11 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again: But its trivial to show FLUSH senile filth What could be more trivial than your idiotic trolling, Ozzietard? -- Richard addressing Rot Speed: "**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll." MID: |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On 31/07/2018 18:41, tim... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote: On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick indication. but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage when the spot price changes What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice? Its the usual bait and switch - get the punters to buy in with the promise of discounts, and when its too late, they work out there are strings. Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range to drive them to school anyway ;-) Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice? Personally, no. However I expect that some people were sold on the idea that this kind of scheme would make intermittent power generation somehow more "useful", by allowing automatic "demand management". -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 18:40:35 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message ... On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 11:18:05 UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Nick Odell" wrote in message ... Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ the meters might I can't for one minute seeing the politician allow it. A tariff which changes without notice cannot possibly change user behaviour, and that is the only possible reason for having differential charging. tim I can't see multi-rate charging being anything but inevitable. It reduces the cost price per kWh for both generation & distribution, so it'll happen. if that saving is passed onto the consumer obviously that's not what motivates electricity companies or governments Of course it'll be marketed as a user money saving scheme, and of course the total cost will be greater not less. if that's the case then the regulator wont allow it what's so hard to understand why you think that tim NT |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 00:04:36 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/07/2018 18:41, tim... wrote: "John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 31/07/2018 11:20, Max Demian wrote: On 30/07/2018 23:42, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ I don't see the point (other than to make more money) as, if you don't know you are paying more for electricity, you can't change your usage. Presumably the display on the smart meter will show the spot price, and give a colour coded easy to read "Cheap, average, expensive" kind of quick indication. but 99% of the time you wont be able to do anything to change your usage when the spot price changes What if the technology does it for them and does not offer the choice? Its the usual bait and switch - get the punters to buy in with the promise of discounts, and when its too late, they work out there are strings. Still at least it could all be "joined up", so when you kid's jumper is still wet in the morning because the system decided not not run the tumble drier when you wanted it, you won't have to worry since it also used too much of the power in your EV and now you have not got the range to drive them to school anyway ;-) Are you going to stop the washing machine mid cycle, or stop cooking dinner, or stop watching your favourite TV program, all on zero notice? Personally, no. However I expect that some people were sold on the idea that this kind of scheme would make intermittent power generation somehow more "useful", by allowing automatic "demand management". The first wave of demand management will be for things like immersion heaters, freezers, washing machines, dishwashers. Whether it will produce much saving for the system overall is a fair question. A later wave could cover all sorts of things, changes in background lighting, perhaps going from left on to PIR operation etc etc. The billions of £ of equipment could save us at least tuppence. NT |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
wrote in message ... The first wave of demand management will be for things like .... freezers, Yup. Demand management for appliances controlled by thermostats. Who'd have thunk it ? Presumably it switches the thermostat off first. michael adams .... |
Smart Meters - the Telegraph's take
harry Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:45:41 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote: On 31/07/2018 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , harry wrote: On Monday, 30 July 2018 23:42:31 UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote: Apologies if this has already been discussed and I missed it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tricity-every/ Nick This is exactly what I posted here years ago. It's all about renewable energy. Especially in the early days. When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, electricity will be expensive. Typical Brexiteer. Not when the sun shines and the wind blows electricity will be cheaper. Don't forget that when the sun shines you are paying harry 50p a unit so it is more expensive when the sun shines. Yup. Over £1200 worth generated this last quarter. The sun shines for the righteous. Itym pious -- -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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