Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?

--
Chris Green
·

"Chris Green" wrote in message
news
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?

If you want to build a "granny" annex PP might be easier

tim

Chris Green wrote:

Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

You can get special permission for an agricultural workers' dwelling,
but you have to demonstrate a suitable need.

I get the feeling that councils are very wary, because after a few years
people try to wriggle out of them, and revert it to a "normal" house
with no strings attached, so I wouldn't see it as an easy way to get
permission you wouldn't ordinarily get.

Depends very much on the local plan. I know the local plan around here
seems OK for what they call Granny Flats in the same plot, but of course if
somebody sold off their garden and a developer wanted to build it would not
be allowed
Sadly the Government are changing the rules so that any old thing can get
permission on appeal it seems, but that no doubt is the typical knee jerk
reaction to the housing shortage which the population will have to live
with. A lot of the problem is density and infrastructure, ie where to put
cars and where are the roads, schools etc. I see a lot of single houses
going up here, but if you are mostly rural there could be other rules. All
roads lead to the local council officers I suggest.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Green" wrote in message
news
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?

--
Chris Green
·

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

You can get special permission for an agricultural workers' dwelling,
but you have to demonstrate a suitable need.

I get the feeling that councils are very wary, because after a few years
people try to wriggle out of them, and revert it to a "normal" house
with no strings attached, so I wouldn't see it as an easy way to get
permission you wouldn't ordinarily get.

Yes, thanks, I think a couple of the local cases where a house has
been added have been for "agricultural workers". I was just wondering
if there was also a 'family member' possibility, probably not.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Hogg wrote:

In Cornwall, and probably other rural holiday areas as well, it's not
uncommon for a farmer to apply for PP to convert a disused or even
derelict barn into holiday accommodation

Under "Class Q" there's a standing presumption to convert disused farm
buildings direct to residential (subject to the rules).

On Saturday, 28 July 2018 09:50:30 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
In Cornwall, and probably other rural holiday areas as well, it's not
uncommon for a farmer to apply for PP to convert a disused or even
derelict barn into holiday accommodation
Under "Class Q" there's a standing presumption to convert disused farm
buildings direct to residential (subject to the rules).

In Wales I saw a lot of 'agricultural buildings' that looked suspiciciously like detached bungalows without window frames.

After a few years they moved the cows out, put in windows, and sold at a profit.

Owain

On Friday, 27 July 2018 22:33:05 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

You may be able to get permission for an extension or an annexe provided it is "incidental to the enjoyment of the main dwelling house", i.e. not a separate dwelling, or if it falls within permitted development you will not need permission. You will need permission for a new separate dwelling.

Also, you may be able to have a non-permanent structure without permission (or it may be easier to get permission for).

https://www.logcabinhub.com/log-cabi...permission-uk/
and lots of others.

Owain

On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..



--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..

developers often apply for PP on someone else's land.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 28/07/2018 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..


Nice loophole - I'm building a house for my child - but once it's
finished I'll sell it!


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 28/07/2018 10:47, wrote:
On Friday, 27 July 2018 22:33:05 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

You may be able to get permission for an extension or an annexe provided it is "incidental to the enjoyment of the main dwelling house", i.e. not a separate dwelling, or if it falls within permitted development you will not need permission. You will need permission for a new separate dwelling.

Also, you may be able to have a non-permanent structure without permission (or it may be easier to get permission for).

https://www.logcabinhub.com/log-cabi...permission-uk/
and lots of others.

Owain




In the Horsham area, there seems to be a rash of 'caravans' being
installed without planning persmission after one land owner won an
appeal.

All the 'planning consultants' are piling in.

Not just 'travellers' either.

See Horsham District Council DC/18/1494

On 28/07/2018 11:23, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..

developers often apply for PP on someone else's land.


No longer true. One of the checks carried out now by the LA
is to confirm ownership of the land.

On 28/07/18 11:23, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..

developers often apply for PP on someone else's land.

Indeed BUT they dont BUILD on it


--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 28/07/2018 11:23, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..

developers often apply for PP on someone else's land.


No longer true. One of the checks carried out now by the LA
is to confirm ownership of the land.

I had a developer, two months ago, wanting to apply for PP on my land. he
would buty if successful. The LA might check to see I I knew about it, but
PP can be applied for by anyone.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?


I would expect there to be a local plan which details what is allowed.
You can always contact local planning office. Parish councillors will
likely know about local rules. You chances of getting planning
permission are somewhat reduced if you are in an Area of Outstanding
Natural Beauty or Green Belt.


--
Michael Chare

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 28/07/18 11:23, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..
developers often apply for PP on someone else's land.

Indeed BUT they dont BUILD on it


No but if they get PP they can then cone and offer you a shed load of
dosh for it.
--
bert

On 27/07/18 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?

You've had most of the answers already.
If you are a farmer and your child is taking over the farm you might
get permission to build a house, but it will carry an 'agricultural tie'.

If your local authority does not have a five-year housing supply in its
local plan and you can show development on the site is 'sustainable' the
planning authority may give in rather than risk an appeal.





--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 28/07/2018 11:54, alan_m wrote:
On 28/07/2018 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/07/18 08:26, tim... wrote:


"Chris Green" wrote in message
news Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?

nope

It being assumed that its hard to build a house on someone elses..


Nice loophole - I'm building a house for my child - but once it's
finished I'll sell it!

ISTR that when we bought our current place (green belt) it was possible
to build a granny annex etc but one would not be permitted to ever sell
it as a separate entity.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and replaced
it with a terrace of three houses.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?Â* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and replaced
it with a terrace of three houses.


There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling as
a 'barn conversion'.

TW

On 28/07/18 09:31, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 08:38:25 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

You can get special permission for an agricultural workers' dwelling,
but you have to demonstrate a suitable need.

I get the feeling that councils are very wary, because after a few years
people try to wriggle out of them, and revert it to a "normal" house
with no strings attached, so I wouldn't see it as an easy way to get
permission you wouldn't ordinarily get.

In Cornwall, and probably other rural holiday areas as well, it's not
uncommon for a farmer to apply for PP to convert a disused or even
derelict barn into holiday accommodation, to make a bit of money on
the side and generally contribute to the local economy through
tourism. Holiday accommodation usually means occupancy for no more
than ten months of the year, sometimes with additional constraints on
the period of occupancy by any one tenant.

After a few years, the farmer may then try to have the status of the
property upgraded to full residential, knowing that if he gets it, he
can make a tidy profit by selling it off. But the council are
generally wise to that sort of thing and don't look kindly on it.

Some councils are very indulgent of farmers and landowners and look
extra kindly on them.

There are a number of wheezes for getting a dwelling allowed on
agricultural land. One we see a lot of here is 'Holiday lets'. That's a
commercial development and not a residential proposition, see? But of
course nobody knows or checks or cares who is actually living there.

TW

On 27/07/18 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?


One of the fundamental principles of planning is that the permission
goes with the property, not the owner or applicant so personal needs and
circumstances should be always irrelevant. You need other ways to get an
application through.

TW

In message , TimW
writes
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.
If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and replaced
it with a terrace of three houses.

There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling as
a 'barn conversion'.

Not quite that easy, Tim. However, my grain barn has consent for 3
dwellings of up to 1500ft.2 and I see the developer has just gone back
to try and squeeze a smaller 4th. dwelling into the same space.

The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed loading.
Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a British
standard BS 5502 class 2.

Planners hate Class Q and drag up every possible objection.
Sustainability otherwise distance to the nearest bus stop is a good one.

--
Tim Lamb

TimW Wrote in message:
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and replaced
it with a terrace of three houses.


There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling as
a 'barn conversion'.

TW


Gotta link? ;-)
--
--
Jim K

On 29/07/2018 20:37, Tim Lamb wrote:

The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed loading.
Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a British
standard BS 5502 class 2.


That's changed/changing to permit structural reinforcement.

I wouldn't mind so much if farmers didn't insist that they need both
direct support (including de facto State insurance against foot and
mouth etc) _and_ freedoms such as this licence to coin it from the open
market from surplus buildings.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29/07/2018 20:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , TimW writes
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?Â* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.
Â*If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and
replaced it with a terrace of three houses.

There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling
as a 'barn conversion'.

Not quite that easy, Tim. However, my grain barn has consent for 3
dwellings of up to 1500ft.2 and I see the developer has just gone back
to try and squeeze a smaller 4th. dwelling into the same space.

The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed loading.
Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a British
standard BS 5502 class 2.

Planners hate Class Q and drag up every possible objection.
Sustainability otherwise distance to the nearest bus stop is a good one.

On the one near us, they stated in the planning application that the
existing building was in need of repair and it would be cost prohibitive
to try and convert. Hence they wanted to demolish it completely and
build from scratch *close* to its original location (although very
slightly smaller in floor area). That was accepted.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 27 July 2018 22:33:05 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land? We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

We are thinking about (well, our child is thinking about) building a
house adjacent to ours, space isn't an issue, we have around 9 acres
and some is fairly lightly used at the moment. We are on a private
road, services (water, electricity, drainage) are close.

So, can one get permission to build a house for family where one maybe
couldn't get permission for just 'a house'?

--
Chris Green
·

There was a big hoo ha about this a couple of years back.
https://environment-analyst.com/dis/...-but-not-urban

In message , Robin
writes
On 29/07/2018 20:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed
loading. Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a
British standard BS 5502 class 2.


That's changed/changing to permit structural reinforcement.

Oh. Once consent was granted here, I stopped keeping up.

I wouldn't mind so much if farmers didn't insist that they need both
direct support (including de facto State insurance against foot and
mouth etc) _and_ freedoms such as this licence to coin it from the open
market from surplus buildings.

There is a down side for working farms in that they lose the ability to
erect buildings under permitted development rights for up to ten years.

Direct support by deficiency payments and latterly CAP has been with us
since WW2. Basically, weather, geography, labour cost.... make us
expensive food producers compared to America, Argentina etc.

On bovine TB, F&M etc. where compulsory herd slaughter is national
policy, I guess it is the only way.


--
Tim Lamb

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 29/07/2018 20:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , TimW writes
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.
*If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done
that recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and
replaced it with a terrace of three houses.

There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling
as a 'barn conversion'.
Not quite that easy, Tim. However, my grain barn has consent for 3
dwellings of up to 1500ft.2 and I see the developer has just gone back
to try and squeeze a smaller 4th. dwelling into the same space.
The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed
loading. Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a
British standard BS 5502 class 2.
Planners hate Class Q and drag up every possible objection.
Sustainability otherwise distance to the nearest bus stop is a good one.

On the one near us, they stated in the planning application that the
existing building was in need of repair and it would be cost
prohibitive to try and convert. Hence they wanted to demolish it
completely and build from scratch *close* to its original location
(although very slightly smaller in floor area). That was accepted.

Hmm.. I believe only about 50% of barn conversion applications succeed.

Tenanted farms are being taken *in hand* by land owners and then
operated by farming contracts managed by land agents. The farmhouse is
usually let and the traditional buildings used for light industrial
purposes.

Neighbouring farm hosts a brewery:-)



--
Tim Lamb

On 30/07/2018 09:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 29/07/2018 20:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
Â*The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed
loading.Â* Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a
BritishÂ* standard BS 5502 class 2.


That's changed/changing to permit structural reinforcement.

Oh. Once consent was granted here, I stopped keeping up.

AIUI it's still not black and white. Made as part of the same changes
that has allowed your developer to look to fit in a 4th dwelling:

http://www.savills.co.uk/blog/articl...dwellings.aspx


I wouldn't mind so much if farmers didn't insist that they need both
direct support (including de facto State insurance against foot and
mouth etc) _and_ freedoms such as this licence to coin it from the
open market from surplus buildings.

There is a down side for working farms in that they lose the ability to
erect buildings under permitted development rights for up to ten years.

Direct support by deficiency payments and latterly CAP has been with us
since WW2. Basically, weather, geography, labour cost.... make us
expensive food producers compared to America, Argentina etc.

On bovine TB, F&M etc. where compulsory herd slaughter is national
policy, I guess it is the only way.

Fair points. And I don't really expect anyone to follow NZ's example.
But I do hate the way agricultural land has become for many a tax
shelter rather than a business asset.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29/07/2018 20:04, TimW wrote:
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?Â* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and replaced
it with a terrace of three houses.


There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling as
a 'barn conversion'.

TW

Many examples of this in the Horsham District.

Local Tomato grower has submitted plans for a new packaging 'shed'
with a storage for their forklift truck, but the plans for the
building have insulated cavity walls and floors and the 'entrance'
for the forklift assumes it will enter and leave fully extended.

And how covenient that design will be 5 years down the line when
they apply to turn their redundant farm building into a house complete
with full height glass entrance foyer.

On 29/07/2018 21:01, Robin wrote:
I wouldn't mind so much if farmers didn't insist that they need both
direct support (including de facto State insurance against foot and
mouth etc) _and_ freedoms such as this licence to coin it from the open
market from surplus buildings.

Plus freedom from CGT and IHT, plus massive payments made to land
owners, just for being the owner.

On Monday, 30 July 2018 10:31:31 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
Local Tomato grower has submitted plans for a new packaging 'shed'
with a storage for their forklift truck, but the plans for the
building have insulated cavity walls and floors and the 'entrance'
for the forklift assumes it will enter and leave fully extended.

I'm sure no-one here would dispute that as a desirable minimum specification for a shed.

And how covenient that design will be 5 years down the line when
they apply to turn their redundant farm building into a house complete
with full height glass entrance foyer.

Waste of a perfectly good shed ...

Owain

In message , Andrew
writes
On 29/07/2018 21:01, Robin wrote:
I wouldn't mind so much if farmers didn't insist that they need both
direct support (including de facto State insurance against foot and
mouth etc) _and_ freedoms such as this licence to coin it from the
open market from surplus buildings.

Plus freedom from CGT and IHT, plus massive payments made to land
owners, just for being the owner.

Not quite.

CGT is payable but can be deferred or rolled over. IHT is relieved to
some extent. Land let on an FBT is zero rated, land let on an AHA secure
tenancy is 50% relieved and land farmed in hand is zero rated.
However, HMRC valuers have a habit of including *hope value* where
farmland adjoins existing housing. The tax relief is only on the
agricultural element.
The nice thing about farmland is that it can be gifted free of IHT
providing the donor lives for a further 7 years.

The massive payment in my case amounts to £75.00/acre for which I am
required to maintain all public rights of way and keep the land in *good
agricultural and environmental condition*. Not quite armchair farming:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Andrew
writes
On 29/07/2018 20:04, TimW wrote:
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.

If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and
replaced it with a terrace of three houses.


There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling
as a 'barn conversion'.
TW

Many examples of this in the Horsham District.

Local Tomato grower has submitted plans for a new packaging 'shed'
with a storage for their forklift truck, but the plans for the
building have insulated cavity walls and floors and the 'entrance'
for the forklift assumes it will enter and leave fully extended.

Hmm.. I understand it will shortly be necessary to insulate commercial
workshop space for future lettings and existing lets just down the line.

And how covenient that design will be 5 years down the line when
they apply to turn their redundant farm building into a house complete
with full height glass entrance foyer.
:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In article , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , TimW
writes
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.
If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done that
recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and
replaced it with a terrace of three houses.

There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling
as a 'barn conversion'.

Not quite that easy, Tim. However, my grain barn has consent for 3
dwellings of up to 1500ft.2 and I see the developer has just gone back
to try and squeeze a smaller 4th. dwelling into the same space.

The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed loading.
Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a British
standard BS 5502 class 2.

Planners hate Class Q and drag up every possible objection.
Sustainability otherwise distance to the nearest bus stop is a good one.

Gotta have a Transport Plan :-)
--
bert

In article , John
Rumm writes
On 29/07/2018 20:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , TimW writes
On 28/07/18 22:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 22:27, Chris Green wrote:
Are there special planning permission rules applying where one wants
to build a house for a fmaily member (child) on one's own land?* We
have a small-holding in an area where adding new houses is basically
not allowed but a few people have added houses for family members
and/or workers.
*If you have existing agricultural buildings that are surplus to
requirements, you may be able to apply for change of use to housing
under the new rules. The small holding adjacent to use, has done
that recently and demolished an old industrial unit / workshop and
replaced it with a terrace of three houses.

There is some shockingly poorly drafted legislation which is being
exploited by wised up landowners recently which says that any old
useless tin shed from the 1980s can now be converted into a dwelling
as a 'barn conversion'.
Not quite that easy, Tim. However, my grain barn has consent for 3
dwellings of up to 1500ft.2 and I see the developer has just gone back
to try and squeeze a smaller 4th. dwelling into the same space.
The existing structure has to be suitable to take the proposed
loading. Steel frame barns on farms, built since around 1990 meet a
British standard BS 5502 class 2.
Planners hate Class Q and drag up every possible objection.
Sustainability otherwise distance to the nearest bus stop is a good one.

On the one near us, they stated in the planning application that the
existing building was in need of repair and it would be cost
prohibitive to try and convert. Hence they wanted to demolish it
completely and build from scratch *close* to its original location
(although very slightly smaller in floor area). That was accepted.


Not an uncommon tactic.
--
bert