On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 16:15:12 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Robin wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

How come they aren't required to be metal-clad as they're effectively
a 1-way CU?

Is it on the outside of the house?

Yes.

Would metal not be prone to corrosion and therefore plastic better?

On 26/07/2018 08:01, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:57:05 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:22, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.


You can (or might be able to) with some cars.

And ten minutes down the road? U values of cars are not good.

--
Adam

The U value of electric cars is good.
.
It's all been thought of Adam.


You have special glass then?

--
Adam

On 26/07/2018 07:47, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

Journeys of 50 miles or more about twice a week.
Journeys of 20 miles or more at least once a day on average.


--
Adam

On Friday, 27 July 2018 15:37:47 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as ICE

I didn't realise they were over 100% efficient

Be very interesting to provide two similar cars - one electric, one
diesel, with the same equivalent amount of fuel, and drive them in convoy
at a steady speed.

I'll bet a million quid the electric one won't go 6 times as far as the
diesel.

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You'd be out of pocket.

On Friday, 27 July 2018 14:32:52 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/07/2018 18:40, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:25:21 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

You can fit a lock to the plug.

How long will that last against an 18V angle grinder?

Yeah everyone carries one with them.

On Friday, 27 July 2018 15:59:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

In many cases yes.
Also centre tap earthing as in a tool transformer. (Both conductors were live to earth.)
I took many out as an apprentice. Or replaced the neutral fuse with a solid link

On Friday, 27 July 2018 18:55:59 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 08:01, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:57:05 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:22, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.


You can (or might be able to) with some cars.

And ten minutes down the road? U values of cars are not good.

--
Adam

The U value of electric cars is good.
.
It's all been thought of Adam.


You have special glass then?

--
Adam

No but the doors are insulated (metal being a good conductor).

On Friday, 27 July 2018 19:08:18 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 07:47, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

Journeys of 50 miles or more about twice a week.
Journeys of 20 miles or more at least once a day on average.


--
Adam

Then my electric car is perfect for you.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 27 July 2018 14:32:52 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/07/2018 18:40, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:25:21 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of
the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns
for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

You can fit a lock to the plug.

How long will that last against an 18V angle grinder?

Yeah everyone carries one with them.

Those stupid enough to have an electric car for long, would.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 06:12:09 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


And any battery angle grinder will fix that in seconds.

Somebody should fix your gob with such a one, Rot!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 27/07/2018 19:27, harry wrote:
On Friday, 27 July 2018 19:08:18 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 07:47, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

Journeys of 50 miles or more about twice a week.
Journeys of 20 miles or more at least once a day on average.


--
Adam

Then my electric car is perfect for you.


Would his ladders fit on the roof?

(Falling off can be arranged as a separate extra.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Friday, 27 July 2018 20:44:02 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
Would his ladders fit on the roof?

Free power in areas with tram lines?

Owain

On 27/07/2018 19:27, harry wrote:
On Friday, 27 July 2018 19:08:18 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 07:47, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

Journeys of 50 miles or more about twice a week.
Journeys of 20 miles or more at least once a day on average.


--
Adam

Then my electric car is perfect for you.

Except that most people need a vehicle that can also undertake the
occasional long journey, maybe fully loaded, mid-winter and possibly
even without any notice. Some need that facility more often than others.

In our case, an electric vehicle would be ideal for my wife's driving,
while still having my car for the longer and unexpected journeys -
except for the high cost of buying EVs new or for replacing the battery
of older, second-hand ones. Her current car cost around £2500, has so
far lasted her 9 years and has only done 17,000 miles in that time. What
would an EV have cost? When would the battery have needed replacing and
at what cost? How much depeciation would there be, particularly as the
battery aged?

SteveW

On 27/07/2018 15:59, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

It could have been a DC supply, but equally could have been some types
of AC supply as well. There was a time (we are talking before national
grid and standardisation of supply arrangements here) where the
supplier's earth was joined to a centre tap on the transformer. So you
may have had a situation where earth was at a potential midway between L
and N. You could get a shock from L to E, but also N to E since they
were not bonded together as in current supply arrangements.

(there were even dual fused consumer units / fuse boards at one point)

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 27 July 2018 23:06:46 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 27/07/2018 19:27, harry wrote:
On Friday, 27 July 2018 19:08:18 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 07:47, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

Journeys of 50 miles or more about twice a week.
Journeys of 20 miles or more at least once a day on average.


--
Adam

Then my electric car is perfect for you.

Except that most people need a vehicle that can also undertake the
occasional long journey, maybe fully loaded, mid-winter and possibly
even without any notice. Some need that facility more often than others.

In our case, an electric vehicle would be ideal for my wife's driving,
while still having my car for the longer and unexpected journeys -
except for the high cost of buying EVs new or for replacing the battery
of older, second-hand ones. Her current car cost around £2500, has so
far lasted her 9 years and has only done 17,000 miles in that time. What
would an EV have cost? When would the battery have needed replacing and
at what cost? How much depeciation would there be, particularly as the
battery aged?

SteveW

The advantage of high depreciation is you can buy an almost new car very cheaply. Which is what I did. (375 miles on clock, a year old, £7000 discount).

I think you wife would be cheaper to get a taxi.

After you've owned an electric car, you don't want to go back to ICE.

A new battery for my car would be £7000. (Had one free under guarantee)
Hopefully battery technology has improved on new one

In Summer fuel = zero cost, (solar panels)

On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 15:59, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

It could have been a DC supply, but equally could have been some types
of AC supply as well. There was a time (we are talking before national
grid and standardisation of supply arrangements here) where the
supplier's earth was joined to a centre tap on the transformer. So you
may have had a situation where earth was at a potential midway between L
and N. You could get a shock from L to E, but also N to E since they
were not bonded together as in current supply arrangements.

(there were even dual fused consumer units / fuse boards at one point)

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

On 27/07/2018 19:27, harry wrote:


Then my electric car is perfect for you.



Can it fit a ton of tools and gear in the boot? Does it have air con? I
will of course need the roof bars for the ladders, pipe tube and
anything else I need to take such as dado, conduit.


--
Adam

On 27/07/2018 19:26, harry wrote:
On Friday, 27 July 2018 18:55:59 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 26/07/2018 08:01, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:57:05 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:22, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.


You can (or might be able to) with some cars.

And ten minutes down the road? U values of cars are not good.

--
Adam

The U value of electric cars is good.
.
It's all been thought of Adam.


You have special glass then?

--
Adam

No but the doors are insulated (metal being a good conductor).


With 6 inches of celotex ?. Doubt it.

cars leak heat faster than a victorian solid-walled semi.

On 28/07/2018 07:39, harry wrote:
In Summer fuel = zero cost,

In winter fuel = zero (walk or cycle everywhere).

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice. It costs less to use it on a MPG
basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for
free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Should have stuck to gas lights

At least you could refuel a gas powered car rather more quickly than
electric. ;-)

--
*Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/07/2018 19:24, harry wrote:

I took many out as an apprentice.

Adam has had a few like that by the sounds of it - lethal buggers.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 28 July 2018 13:28:44 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...

Well ****-fer-brains, zigzag connected transformers were common here once to supply rectifiers for DC for trolleybuses and trams.
The center tapped secondary coils are linked and earthed.
And are still common in the USA

On 28/07/2018 14:24, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 13:28:44 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...

Well ****-fer-brains, zigzag connected transformers were common here once to supply rectifiers for DC for trolleybuses and trams.

Yup, but irrelevant

The center tapped secondary coils are linked and earthed.

yes

And are still common in the USA

Like I said...

So nothing to do with the question, which for the hard of thinking, was:
what circuit protection arrangements do they use in the US for 220V
circuits wired between two 120V phases, without a neutral?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/07/2018 18:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/07/2018 14:24, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 13:28:44 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:
On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed
from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...

Well ****-fer-brains, zigzag connected transformers were common here
once to supply rectifiers for DC for trolleybuses and trams.

Yup, but irrelevant

The center tapped secondary coils are linked and earthed.

yes

And are still common in the USA

Like I said...

So nothing to do with the question, which for the hard of thinking, was:
what circuit protection arrangements do they use in the US for 220V
circuits wired between two 120V phases, without a neutral?

If Harry were right there'd have been no need for the double pole
breakers in the handful of US apartments we've stayed stayed in over the
years. Or to be more precise, double pole breakers or 2 single pole
breakers with the handles locked together in some circs.

No knowledge of the days of fuses but searching suggests you were right
about fuses on both sides - eg

https://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=6514

The search also revealed that Adam's cousins seem to have had a very
large slice of the market for pull-out dual fuse carriers for domestic
supplies for a while, something that was news to me:


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pull+out+fuse+holder&source=lnms&sa=X&ved =0ahUKEwit4qSAy8LcAhXhJsAKHZh6A0wQ_AUICSgA&biw=192 0&bih=1045&dpr=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadswo...turing_Company



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Saturday, 28 July 2018 21:08:59 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 28/07/2018 18:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/07/2018 14:24, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 13:28:44 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:
On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed
from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...

Well ****-fer-brains, zigzag connected transformers were common here
once to supply rectifiers for DC for trolleybuses and trams.

Yup, but irrelevant

The center tapped secondary coils are linked and earthed.

yes

And are still common in the USA

Like I said...

So nothing to do with the question, which for the hard of thinking, was:
what circuit protection arrangements do they use in the US for 220V
circuits wired between two 120V phases, without a neutral?

If Harry were right there'd have been no need for the double pole
breakers in the handful of US apartments we've stayed stayed in over the
years. Or to be more precise, double pole breakers or 2 single pole
breakers with the handles locked together in some circs.


They have double pole breakers because both poles are live to earth on 220V supplies

I am doing some lighting business in UK

I want to DIY some lighting with led ,How about this supplier :www.lightstec.com

On 29/07/2018 08:48, lightstec wrote:
I am doing some lighting business in UK

I want to DIY some lighting with led ,How about this supplier
:www.light stec.com

Never tried em, but based on their clueless self promotion via spam to a
newsgroup, I would steer well clear.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/07/2018 23:19, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/07/2018 23:09, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 17/07/2018 19:09, ARW wrote:
Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or
32A socket on the outside wall.

Is there anything special I should know to go in the new box in my
(half complete) garage?

The house supply is 100A, and the spur out there currently has a 63A RCD.

I have no immediate plans for an electric car, but it would be silly
not to allow for it.

Andy

Is that with a 50kw DC charger or the mundane 32A AC one?

That's what I want to know.

32A wouldn't be a problem. 50kW would be. I don't have that much to the
house (100A = ~24kW).

Andy

On 23/07/2018 17:48, ARW wrote:
On 22/07/2018 23:09, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 17/07/2018 19:09, ARW wrote:
Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or
32A socket on the outside wall.

Is there anything special I should know to go in the new box in my
(half complete) garage?

The house supply is 100A, and the spur out there currently has a 63A RCD.

I have no immediate plans for an electric car, but it would be silly
not to allow for it.


63A RCD is not very helpful;-).

However the main thing to consider at this point is at least getting a
cable in that is big enough to power your future needs (no such thing a
a cable that is too big).

Mode 3 charging, which is almost certainly going to be the big seller
due to the grants, can supply up to 63A. I suspect that the 32A will be
the big seller due to the available supply.

I'll have to do a Wiki as there is the type of RCD and possibly making
the supply a TT supply.

I'll help you size a suitable cable if it is still possible to get one in.


Given I have 100A to the house taking more than 63A out would be greedy
- we both want an induction hob in the new kitchen for a start. But
the cable is fixed - sparky was happy that it was sized correctly for
the 63A RCD, and it was already running out to the old garage. Replacing
it would have meant removing the weatherboarding on the house.

I'll have to ask him if the cable is big enough for any more than that.

Must also ask about RCBOs...

Thanks
Andy

It's sometimes interesting to check permissible efli for 63A type C 60898 mcbs and compare that figure with available conditions.
Most of the 2391 students I did practical assessment of struggled with what they met on the official test rig.