On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 12:46:28 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

harry wrote:

Many have less than 20 Kwh.
Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

Neighbour has had a Prius PHev for a couple of months, it charges from a
13A socket in 3 hours, for some reason he's had a 16A charging point
installed today

http://mcnallygroup.co.uk/home-charge-ev-charger-installation

which will cut his charging time to .... drum roll ... 2.4 hours

His car came with a commando lead as well as a 13A lead, so £500 well
spend vs £50 for an IP67 commando socket?

1. Did he pay or was it funded through a government scheme?
2. Is there an element of future-proofing?

Scott wrote:

1. Did he pay or was it funded through a government scheme?

I think the grant pays 75% which means he paid about 3x the price of a
commando socket, and you and I paid about 7x the price too.

No wonder Adam thinks OLEV is a nice earner :-P

2. Is there an element of future-proofing?

No, it would have cost extra to have a 32A one installed.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:55:43 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:04:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:14, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:40:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:19, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 23:24:21 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 24/07/2018 11:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.


You only need a gallon of batteries to get it going again don't you?

I can see a market for some kind of portable power bank for getting a EV
to the nearest charging point... kind of like the power banks for your
phone.


We have them.
It's called a tow truck.


And the future ones will not have tow ropes but extension leads.


Connected to where?


Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery vehicle
would be my best guess.

And what would that be?

I would expect an additional, extra large battery in the back - same
principle as a mobile phone powerbank.

Clearly you never thought that through.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:50:02 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:42:36 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:20:43 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:39 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:03:47 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:14:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.

Only supercars have very large batteries.

For some version of "very large".

Once "normal" normal EVs have even larger batteries,


Most have batteries of 40 Kwh or less. Many have less than 20 Kwh.

Indeed - both far too small.

Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

The 20kWh one could, the 40kWh one would get to just over half charged
in 8 hours.

Nobody runs their battery to depletion.
Plus there will be charge points at workplaces.

Only the ones with carparks.

Batteries of more than 20Kwh will be rare.



The reason for these special sockets is so that in the future they
can be separately metered and charged for at a much higher rate to
make up for fuel tax losses.

The reason for the special sockets is (for now at least) so that one can
use a more appropriate charge rate.

I can't see separate metering at elevated tax rates being a big selling
point.


It's not a selling point. It's what will happen in the future when electric cars are the norm.
If you can't see this you're not clever.
Just as zero road tax is a temporary inducement.

The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as ICE
Plus energy is recovered by regeneration.
Transport costs/losses for electricity are negligible.
Also electricity can be generated using gas.
Plus they can be recharged for free with home PV power.

The cost of infra-structure is the problem.

Tsk.
The gov. is going to put a charge point in every lamp post.
Ha Ha!

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?

How many parked cars need to be refuelled?

Not all, I agree, but the logistics of getting the ones that don't to
park away from the lamp posts in a busy street would be challenging
indeed, as would getting drivers to move the vehicle once charging is
complete, whilst at work.

It's challenging keeping ICE cars out of charging bays now.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:47:47 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 07:47:48 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

For some people that's practical, but it does mean you need 2 cars. For most people that ain't practical.


If I want to go further, it's one reason to get the Roller out.

pretty but lousy handling


NT

True.
It's forty odd years old and has 1970's handling.
I intend to have new dampers fitted.
Before the age of low profile tyres and subject to both over and under steer.
Cheap to insure, no road tax.
Just a bit heavy on petrol. (Seven litre V8 engine).
But it's an investment.
Just like my solar panels.
Which BTW have paid off very well.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 12:46:30 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
harry wrote:

Many have less than 20 Kwh.
Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

Neighbour has had a Prius PHev for a couple of months, it charges from a
13A socket in 3 hours, for some reason he's had a 16A charging point
installed today

http://mcnallygroup.co.uk/home-charge-ev-charger-installation

which will cut his charging time to .... drum roll ... 2.4 hours

His car came with a commando lead as well as a 13A lead, so £500 well
spend vs £50 for an IP67 commando socket?

The problem is complexity.
The battery is about 9 Kwh on the latest ones..

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:39:21 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:55:43 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:04:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:14, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:40:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:19, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 23:24:21 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 24/07/2018 11:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm* wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.


You only need a gallon of batteries to get it going again don't you?

I can see a market for some kind of portable power bank for getting a EV
to the nearest charging point... kind of like the power banks for your
phone.


We have them.
It's called a tow truck.


And the future ones will not have tow ropes but extension leads.


Connected to where?


Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery vehicle
would be my best guess.

And what would that be?

I would expect an additional, extra large battery in the back - same
principle as a mobile phone powerbank.

Clearly you never thought that through.

You could be right. Maybe someone knowledgeable could enlighten us.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 10:24:49 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/07/18 03:49, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:17, harry wrote:

I am a trend setter. Inferior intellects follow on.

You probably thought that about flares.

No, he has been told that by the advertisers whose products he buys.

And is stupid enough tyo believe them


You're the one living in poverty sunshine.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 17:54:45 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:39:21 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:55:43 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:04:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:14, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:40:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:19, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 23:24:21 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 24/07/2018 11:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.


You only need a gallon of batteries to get it going again don't you?

I can see a market for some kind of portable power bank for getting a EV
to the nearest charging point... kind of like the power banks for your
phone.


We have them.
It's called a tow truck.


And the future ones will not have tow ropes but extension leads.


Connected to where?


Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery vehicle
would be my best guess.

And what would that be?

I would expect an additional, extra large battery in the back - same
principle as a mobile phone powerbank.

Clearly you never thought that through.

You could be right. Maybe someone knowledgeable could enlighten us.

It's obviously quicker, cheaper and easier for all concerned to tow/transport the car to a charging point with a standard recovery truck.

Try to keep up.

On 17/07/2018 19:09, ARW wrote:
Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or 32A
socket on the outside wall.

Bit tricky if the property only has a single phase and neutral
(plus PME) underground supply though ??.

On 26/07/2018 16:19, dennis@home wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:04, ARW wrote:

Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery
vehicle would be my best guess.




They need tow bars on the cars so they can hire a tow along generator to
keep them going.
No point in tieing up a tow truck because someone was stupid enough to
flatten the battery.


Just tow the electric car for a few miles with foot gently on the cars
brake and the kinetic energy will recharge the battery - surely ?.

On 26/07/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:18:59 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:13:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:

As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.

But only if you ignore all the distribution network losses
and the thermodynamic in-efficiency of thermal electricity
generation which is still a large part of the supply mix.



From fossil fuel to power on the road, an electric car uses around a quarter of an ICE car.
Even less with the new gas fired power stations (Not a practical option using methane as a car fuel either)



And your smart meter will soon start collecting the missing fuel duty
and 20% VAT via your electric bill. Ho Ho.

You don't really believe that HM Treasury will simply abandon the
£20 Billion that fuel duty and VAT on fuel raises every year do you ?.

On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

On 26/07/2018 07:50, harry wrote:
so a charging point can be installed anywhere.

Even on the hard shoulder of a smart motorway ?.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:18:33 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 26/07/2018 16:19, dennis@home wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:04, ARW wrote:

Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery
vehicle would be my best guess.




They need tow bars on the cars so they can hire a tow along generator to
keep them going.
No point in tieing up a tow truck because someone was stupid enough to
flatten the battery.


Just tow the electric car for a few miles with foot gently on the cars
brake and the kinetic energy will recharge the battery - surely ?.

Kinetic energy???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy

On 26/07/2018 17:40, harry wrote:
It's challenging keeping ICE cars out of charging bays now.

Wait until 'Charger Rage' becomes the norm ...

People will have to use an App or online service to book their
slot(s) at least 30 days in advance, just like the process needed
to buy a rail ticket without a mortgage.

harry wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:
His car came with a commando lead as well as a 13A lead, so £500 well
spend vs £50 for an IP67 commando socket?

The problem is complexity.

But it came with both 13A and commando leads, so the complexity seems to
built into the car, not the charger?

The battery is about 9 Kwh on the latest ones..

Yes that seems to be the model he has 8.8kWh, which claims to be good
for 34miles, but seemed to switch to petrol after half of that distance
when I got a lift in it the other week.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:53:26 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:18:59 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:13:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:

As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.

But only if you ignore all the distribution network losses
and the thermodynamic in-efficiency of thermal electricity
generation which is still a large part of the supply mix.



From fossil fuel to power on the road, an electric car uses around a
quarter of an ICE car.
Even less with the new gas fired power stations

(Not a practical option using methane as a car fuel either)

Bull****, our taxis and quite a few of our cars do too.

They run on propane ****-fer-brains.

Andrew wrote:

You don't really believe that HM Treasury will simply abandon the
£20 Billion that fuel duty and VAT on fuel raises every year do you ?.

Maybe they should start by adding an car tax surcharge, rather than
giving electric vehicles lower car tax and a subsidy to buy them?

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:51:32 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:59:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the charge time.

My sister in law does it after the car is charged and before setting
off for work so there is no effect on charge time.

Of course there is. She has to have it plugged in while it's heating or the battery would deplete.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:23:19 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 26/07/2018 07:56, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:18:59 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:13:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:

As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.

But only if you ignore all the distribution network losses
and the thermodynamic in-efficiency of thermal electricity
generation which is still a large part of the supply mix.



From fossil fuel to power on the road, an electric car uses around a quarter of an ICE car.
Even less with the new gas fired power stations (Not a practical option using methane as a car fuel either)



And your smart meter will soon start collecting the missing fuel duty
and 20% VAT via your electric bill. Ho Ho.

You don't really believe that HM Treasury will simply abandon the
£20 Billion that fuel duty and VAT on fuel raises every year do you ?.

Try to keep up, we've covered that.
The purpose of a discrete charge point in every new home is so that it can be separately metered (at much higher cost) in the future.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:25:21 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

You can fit a lock to the plug.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:35:29 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:51:32 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:59:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the charge time.

My sister in law does it after the car is charged and before setting
off for work so there is no effect on charge time.

Of course there is. She has to have it plugged in while it's heating or the battery would deplete.

She charges it through the night. It is fully charged by breakfast
time. She heats the car as she eats breakfast. Therefore the time
spent connected to the charger is for practical purposes unaffected.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:53:26 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:18:59 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:13:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:

As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.

But only if you ignore all the distribution network losses
and the thermodynamic in-efficiency of thermal electricity
generation which is still a large part of the supply mix.



From fossil fuel to power on the road, an electric car uses around a
quarter of an ICE car.
Even less with the new gas fired power stations

(Not a practical option using methane as a car fuel either)

Bull****, our taxis and quite a few of our cars do too.

They run on propane ****-fer-brains.

You are wrong, as always. They run on the same stuff the power stations do.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:51:32 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:59:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about
the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of
ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the
charge time.

My sister in law does it after the car is charged and before setting
off for work so there is no effect on charge time.

Of course there is.

Wrong, as always.

She has to have it plugged in while it's heating or the battery would
deplete.

But most have enough of a clue to plug the car in when they get
home from work and unplug it just before they leave for work the
next day, so using the heater before leaving for work has no effect
on the charging because it stopped charging well before she turned
the heater on before leaving.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:25:21 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the
van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns
for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

You can fit a lock to the plug.

And any battery angle grinder will fix that in seconds.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 05:43:08 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

But most have enough of a clue to plug the car in when they get
home from work and unplug it just before they leave for work the
next day, so using the heater before leaving for work has no effect
on the charging because it stopped charging well before she turned
the heater on before leaving.

Someone needs to pull your plug, senile geezer ...for good!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 05:40:02 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


They run on propane ****-fer-brains.

You are wrong, as always.

He's right! You ARE a ****-fer-brains, Rot!

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:01:16 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:35:29 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:51:32 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:59:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the charge time.

My sister in law does it after the car is charged and before setting
off for work so there is no effect on charge time.

Of course there is. She has to have it plugged in while it's heating or the battery would deplete.

She charges it through the night. It is fully charged by breakfast
time. She heats the car as she eats breakfast. Therefore the time
spent connected to the charger is for practical purposes unaffected.

No, it's connected to the charger while she eats breakfast.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:01:16 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:35:29 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 08:51:32 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:59:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a
tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh -
about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of
ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set
off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using
a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the
'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the
charge time.

My sister in law does it after the car is charged and before setting
off for work so there is no effect on charge time.

Of course there is. She has to have it plugged in while it's heating or
the battery would deplete.

She charges it through the night. It is fully charged by breakfast
time. She heats the car as she eats breakfast. Therefore the time
spent connected to the charger is for practical purposes unaffected.

No, it's connected to the charger while she eats breakfast.

Irrelevant when its finished charging by then.

On 26/07/2018 18:14, Andrew wrote:
On 17/07/2018 19:09, ARW wrote:
Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or
32A socket on the outside wall.

Bit tricky if the property only has a single phase and neutral
(plus PME) underground supply though ??.

That bit ought not be a problem, so long as there is enough capacity.

However there are some specific requirements that apply to vehicle
charging points over and above those normally associated with outside
sockets. There is a dedicated section in the regs (722) that covers
these installations. There are also a series of BS Docs (starting BS EN
61851) that cover EV charging.

You will also need a different type of RCD (a type "A" or "B" rather
than the more typical type "AC") to protect the circuit feeding the
charge point.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

there are some specific requirements that apply to vehicle
charging points over and above those normally associated with outside
sockets. There is a dedicated section in the regs (722) that covers
these installations. There are also a series of BS Docs (starting BS EN
61851) that cover EV charging.

You will also need a different type of RCD (a type "A" or "B" rather
than the more typical type "AC") to protect the circuit feeding the
charge point.

The neighbour's unit seems to consist of a DIN rail mounted RCBO,
contactor and control unit.

How come they aren't required to be metal-clad as they're effectively a
1-way CU?

On 27/07/2018 14:02, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

there are some specific requirements that apply to vehicle charging
points over and above those normally associated with outside sockets.
There is a dedicated section in the regs (722) that covers these
installations. There are also a series of BS Docs (starting BS EN
61851) that cover EV charging.

You will also need a different type of RCD (a type "A" or "B" rather
than the more typical type "AC") to protect the circuit feeding the
charge point.

The neighbour's unit seems to consist of a DIN rail mounted RCBO,
contactor and control unit.

How come they aren't required to be metal-clad as they're effectively a
1-way CU?

Is it on the outside of the house? (Asked as IIRC the new
"non-combustible" reg. only applies to CUs "within" domestic premises;
but wait for John, Adam et al for a reliable answer.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 26/07/2018 18:40, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:25:21 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

You can fit a lock to the plug.

How long will that last against an 18V angle grinder?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
wrote:
The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as ICE

I didn't realise they were over 100% efficient

Be very interesting to provide two similar cars - one electric, one
diesel, with the same equivalent amount of fuel, and drive them in convoy
at a steady speed.

I'll bet a million quid the electric one won't go 6 times as far as the
diesel.

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 15:30:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as ICE

I didn't realise they were over 100% efficient

Be very interesting to provide two similar cars - one electric, one
diesel, with the same equivalent amount of fuel, and drive them in convoy
at a steady speed.

I'll bet a million quid the electric one won't go 6 times as far as the
diesel.

I think it would provided the amount of fuel was measured in Joules,
not kilograms.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

Robin wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

How come they aren't required to be metal-clad as they're effectively
a 1-way CU?

Is it on the outside of the house?

Yes.

On 26/07/2018 18:40, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:25:21 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/07/2018 20:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain


I'm waiting for 'Charger RAge' to be added to the Oxford English
Dictionary as people unplug other peoples leccy cars because they
have hogged the meter parking slot for too long.

You can fit a lock to the plug.


And carry a cheap pair of pliers or wire cutters.

On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 16:27:05 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency

Correction, 30 litres of petrol.
One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.


A doughnut or two takes me that far on foot.