"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:03:47 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:14:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.

Only supercars have very large batteries.

For some version of "very large".

Once "normal" normal EVs have even larger batteries,


Most have batteries of 40 Kwh or less. Many have less than 20 Kwh.

Indeed - both far too small.

Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

The 20kWh one could, the 40kWh one would get to just over half charged
in 8 hours.

Nobody runs their battery to depletion.
Plus there will be charge points at workplaces.

Only the ones with carparks.

Batteries of more than 20Kwh will be rare.



The reason for these special sockets is so that in the future they
can be separately metered and charged for at a much higher rate to
make up for fuel tax losses.

The reason for the special sockets is (for now at least) so that one
can
use a more appropriate charge rate.

I can't see separate metering at elevated tax rates being a big
selling
point.


It's not a selling point. It's what will happen in the future when
electric cars are the norm.
If you can't see this you're not clever.
Just as zero road tax is a temporary inducement.

The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as
ICE
Plus energy is recovered by regeneration.
Transport costs/losses for electricity are negligible.
Also electricity can be generated using gas.
Plus they can be recharged for free with home PV power.

The cost of infra-structure is the problem.

Tsk.
The gov. is going to put a charge point in every lamp post.

Fat lot of good that is. Need a long extension cord when parked
between lamp posts and lots of sockets in each lamp post.

Ha Ha!

This is no laughing matter, boy.

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice.
It costs less to use it on a MPG basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Owain

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:55:04 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

Tsk.
The gov. is going to put a charge point in every lamp post.

Fat lot of good that is. Need a long extension cord when parked
between lamp posts and lots of sockets in each lamp post.

Ha Ha!

This is no laughing matter, boy.

YOU certainly are, you ridiculous troll from Ozzieland! LOL

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice. It costs less to use it on a MPG
basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for
free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Should have stuck to gas lights

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:06:31 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv

Exactly. That number of charging points won't charge all the cars in
the street. You would need one charging point per bay and there is
certainly not one streetlamp per bay (or two bays) at present. It
cannot be assumed everyone will be able to charge a car at work.

our village doesn't have any street lights

But its unlikely that many work there.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 20:51:23 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:06:31 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv

Exactly. That number of charging points won't charge all the cars in
the street. You would need one charging point per bay and there is
certainly not one streetlamp per bay (or two bays) at present. It
cannot be assumed everyone will be able to charge a car at work.

our village doesn't have any street lights

Does it have a 30mph speed limit?

On 25/07/2018 21:31, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:18:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
The air con in my van is very nice. It costs less to use it on a MPG
basis than opening the windows of the van.

But does the filtration eradicate the whiff of apprentice?

Try that with an electric Leaf:-)

I wonder how long before people breaking into street lighting columns for
free lecky for charging results in electrocution.

Should have stuck to gas lights

What? For CNG cars?

SteveW

In article , ARW adamwadsworth@bluey
onder.co.uk scribeth thus
On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv


Is that a "meter man" to the right pondering on how to book the car for
sideways on parking?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 20:51:23 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:06:31 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv

Exactly. That number of charging points won't charge all the cars in
the street. You would need one charging point per bay and there is
certainly not one streetlamp per bay (or two bays) at present. It
cannot be assumed everyone will be able to charge a car at work.

our village doesn't have any street lights

Does it have a 30mph speed limit?

mostly. It was asked for by the Parish Council in 1935 and happened in
2001!

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 22:27:44 UTC+1, charles wrote:
Does it have a 30mph speed limit?
mostly. It was asked for by the Parish Council in 1935 and happened in
2001!

I'm gazing into my crystal ball and seeing christmas lights.





Sometime around 2024.

Owain

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , ARW adamwadsworth@bluey
onder.co.uk scribeth thus
On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv


Is that a "meter man" to the right pondering on how to book the car for
sideways on parking?..

Can't be, no clipboard or electronic thingo.

Can't be Adam's apprentice either, doesn’t have his hands in his pockets.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 20:51:23 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:06:31 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv

Exactly. That number of charging points won't charge all the cars in
the street. You would need one charging point per bay and there is
certainly not one streetlamp per bay (or two bays) at present. It
cannot be assumed everyone will be able to charge a car at work.

our village doesn't have any street lights

Does it have a 30mph speed limit?

mostly. It was asked for by the Parish Council in 1935 and happened in
2001!

Hope they didn’t hold their breath.

On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/07/2018 16:17, harry wrote:

I am a trend setter. Inferior intellects follow on.

You probably thought that about flares.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/07/2018 03:47, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.



10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop on
journey fill up'. Think of a traditional petrol station, it takes a
couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues. Increase the fill
time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.



Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



The tree huggers will love that.


I drive a hybrid- I'm no tree hugger, I liked the car and it fits our
usage pattern, I rarely charge away from home. Most local driving is all
electric but I know, on a long journey, I'll be running on petrol most
of the time.

--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:04:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:14, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:40:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:19, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 23:24:21 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 24/07/2018 11:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John RummÂ* wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.


You only need a gallon of batteries to get it going again don't you?

I can see a market for some kind of portable power bank for getting a EV
to the nearest charging point... kind of like the power banks for your
phone.


We have them.
It's called a tow truck.


And the future ones will not have tow ropes but extension leads.


Connected to where?


Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery vehicle
would be my best guess.

And what would that be?

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:20:43 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:39 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:03:47 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:14:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.

Only supercars have very large batteries.

For some version of "very large".

Once "normal" normal EVs have even larger batteries,


Most have batteries of 40 Kwh or less. Many have less than 20 Kwh.

Indeed - both far too small.

Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

The 20kWh one could, the 40kWh one would get to just over half charged
in 8 hours.

Nobody runs their battery to depletion.
Plus there will be charge points at workplaces.

Only the ones with carparks.

Batteries of more than 20Kwh will be rare.



The reason for these special sockets is so that in the future they
can be separately metered and charged for at a much higher rate to
make up for fuel tax losses.

The reason for the special sockets is (for now at least) so that one can
use a more appropriate charge rate.

I can't see separate metering at elevated tax rates being a big selling
point.


It's not a selling point. It's what will happen in the future when electric cars are the norm.
If you can't see this you're not clever.
Just as zero road tax is a temporary inducement.

The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as ICE
Plus energy is recovered by regeneration.
Transport costs/losses for electricity are negligible.
Also electricity can be generated using gas.
Plus they can be recharged for free with home PV power.

The cost of infra-structure is the problem.

Tsk.
The gov. is going to put a charge point in every lamp post.
Ha Ha!

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?

How many parked cars need to be refuelled?

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

If I want to go further, it's one reason to get the Roller out.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 07:21:42 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/07/2018 03:47, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.



10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop on
journey fill up'. Think of a traditional petrol station, it takes a
couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues. Increase the fill
time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.

No comparison.
No fuel tanks, no fuel deliveries, so a charging point can be installed anywhere.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:49:10 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:17, harry wrote:

I am a trend setter. Inferior intellects follow on.

You probably thought that about flares.


Flares are for sailor boys sweetie.

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:18:59 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:13:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:

As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.

But only if you ignore all the distribution network losses
and the thermodynamic in-efficiency of thermal electricity
generation which is still a large part of the supply mix.



From fossil fuel to power on the road, an electric car uses around a quarter of an ICE car.
Even less with the new gas fired power stations (Not a practical option using methane as a car fuel either)

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the charge time.

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:57:05 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:22, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.


You can (or might be able to) with some cars.

And ten minutes down the road? U values of cars are not good.

--
Adam

The U value of electric cars is good.
..
It's all been thought of Adam.

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 07:21:42 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/07/2018 03:47, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.



10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop on
journey fill up'. Think of a traditional petrol station, it takes a
couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues. Increase the fill
time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.

not at all, it just requires 5x the space, ie a small carpark. 10 minutes would be practical for the motorist, but afaik the batteries, connectors, chargers, power plants & distribution won't do it.


NT

On Thursday, 26 July 2018 07:47:48 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:47:37 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



How often do you make a journey of even fifty miles? Most of my journeys are under twenty miles. Many are less than five.

For some people that's practical, but it does mean you need 2 cars. For most people that ain't practical.


If I want to go further, it's one reason to get the Roller out.

pretty but lousy handling


NT

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:42:36 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:20:43 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:39 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:03:47 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:14:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.

Only supercars have very large batteries.

For some version of "very large".

Once "normal" normal EVs have even larger batteries,


Most have batteries of 40 Kwh or less. Many have less than 20 Kwh.

Indeed - both far too small.

Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

The 20kWh one could, the 40kWh one would get to just over half charged
in 8 hours.

Nobody runs their battery to depletion.
Plus there will be charge points at workplaces.

Only the ones with carparks.

Batteries of more than 20Kwh will be rare.



The reason for these special sockets is so that in the future they
can be separately metered and charged for at a much higher rate to
make up for fuel tax losses.

The reason for the special sockets is (for now at least) so that one can
use a more appropriate charge rate.

I can't see separate metering at elevated tax rates being a big selling
point.


It's not a selling point. It's what will happen in the future when electric cars are the norm.
If you can't see this you're not clever.
Just as zero road tax is a temporary inducement.

The motors used on electric cars are around six times as efficient as ICE
Plus energy is recovered by regeneration.
Transport costs/losses for electricity are negligible.
Also electricity can be generated using gas.
Plus they can be recharged for free with home PV power.

The cost of infra-structure is the problem.

Tsk.
The gov. is going to put a charge point in every lamp post.
Ha Ha!

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?

How many parked cars need to be refuelled?

Not all, I agree, but the logistics of getting the ones that don't to
park away from the lamp posts in a busy street would be challenging
indeed, as would getting drivers to move the vehicle once charging is
complete, whilst at work.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:59:34 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:22:37 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:13:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:39:31 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:27, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 11:56:59 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

As the efficiency of electric cars is around six times that of ICE,.....= six liters of petrol.
Plus regeneration = yet more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...rgy_efficiency



And the efficiency when you stick the heater on in winter?


--
Adam
As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.
It depends on whether it has a heat pump or a resistance heater.
I just put a fan heater in the car for 15 minutes before I set off.
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Is that needed? I thought you could turn on the car heating using a
mobile phone app while the vehicle is still plugged into the 'shore'
supply.

You can. There is a transmitter on the keyring. But it increases the charge time.

My sister in law does it after the car is charged and before setting
off for work so there is no effect on charge time.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:18:59 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 18:13:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:

As you should know electric heaters are 100% efficient.

But only if you ignore all the distribution network losses
and the thermodynamic in-efficiency of thermal electricity
generation which is still a large part of the supply mix.



From fossil fuel to power on the road, an electric car uses around a
quarter of an ICE car.
Even less with the new gas fired power stations

(Not a practical option using methane as a car fuel either)

Bull****, our taxis and quite a few of our cars do too.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 07:21:39 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 26/07/2018 03:47, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.



10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop on
journey fill up'. Think of a traditional petrol station, it takes a
couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues. Increase the fill
time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.

But good for sales of coffee :-)

Now all you need do is build the nukes to power it all.



The tree huggers will love that.


I drive a hybrid- I'm no tree hugger, I liked the car and it fits our
usage pattern, I rarely charge away from home. Most local driving is all
electric but I know, on a long journey, I'll be running on petrol most
of the time.

I see the hybrid like a bi-mode train. Carrying a huge weight
penalty, detracting from efficiency. Sorting out the battery
technology would be much better.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 20:04:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:14, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 17:40:23 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:19, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 23:24:21 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 19:16, ARW wrote:
On 24/07/2018 11:56, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/07/2018 06:56, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:39:05 UTC+1, John Rumm* wrote:


Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny
fraction of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

-- Cheers,

John.

Drivel. As usual you are "expert" on something you have zero
knowledge and experience of.

Its simple arithmetic harry. 13A @ 240V for 8H is ~25kWh - about the
same energy content as that contained in 5L of petrol.

No-one runs their electric car to depletion. Or anywhere near.

You say that like its a good thing!

While its understandable, since the pain of actually running out of
power is considerable, it means even less of the energy stored is
available for use. Less of a problem if you have "loads" in the first
place, but more difficult when you need all the range you can get.


You only need a gallon of batteries to get it going again don't you?

I can see a market for some kind of portable power bank for getting a EV
to the nearest charging point... kind of like the power banks for your
phone.


We have them.
It's called a tow truck.


And the future ones will not have tow ropes but extension leads.


Connected to where?


Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery vehicle
would be my best guess.

And what would that be?

I would expect an additional, extra large battery in the back - same
principle as a mobile phone powerbank.

On 26/07/2018 07:21, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/07/2018 03:47, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 18:21, harry wrote:

One KWh takes me 3-5 miles depending on hilliness and speed.

So 60 to 90 miles if you use the battery to depletion (which of course
you won't)

Like I said, a toy.

EVs may well become usable - Give em 250 usable miles in any weather,
and the chance to add another 100 miles in 10 mins at a refuelling
station and I would expect most people would be able to cope.



10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop on
journey fill up'.Â* Think of a traditional petrol station, it takes a
couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues.Â* Increase the fill
time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.


You could cheat a bit - like doing the payment processing etc while it
charges.

A universal swappable battery would be another way.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/07/2018 07:51, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 26 July 2018 03:49:10 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:17, harry wrote:

I am a trend setter. Inferior intellects follow on.

You probably thought that about flares.


Flares are for sailor boys sweetie.

Down at the docks doing then favours were you?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
harry wrote:
Also it has heated seats which are all that's necessary in Winter.

Do you drive the car nude, then? Not a nice image.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop on
journey fill up'. Think of a traditional petrol station, it takes a
couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues. Increase the fill
time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.

A filling station by nature has a smallish forecourt. With the fuel tanks
etc below it or whatever. And to have that re-fuelling confined to a space
where there can be adequate fire precautions.

Electric cars could just have a charging point in each of the bays in the
car park. Any car park.

--
*Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/07/18 03:49, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/07/2018 16:17, harry wrote:

I am a trend setter. Inferior intellects follow on.

You probably thought that about flares.

No, he has been told that by the advertisers whose products he buys.

And is stupid enough tyo believe them



--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Brian Reay wrote

10mins to 'refuel' is too long, at least for traditional a 'stop
on journey fill up'. Think of a traditional petrol station, it
takes a couple of mins to fill yet there can still be queues.
Increase the fill time to 10 mins and there'd be chaos.

A filling station by nature has a smallish forecourt.

Must explain this one
https://goo.gl/maps/9ftjL4SUDsJ2

With the fuel tanks etc below it or whatever.

Yes.

And to have that re-fuelling confined to a space
where there can be adequate fire precautions.

Even sillier than you usually manage.
https://goo.gl/maps/9ftjL4SUDsJ2

harry wrote:

Many have less than 20 Kwh.
Easily capable of recharging overnight on 13a socket.

Neighbour has had a Prius PHev for a couple of months, it charges from a
13A socket in 3 hours, for some reason he's had a 16A charging point
installed today

http://mcnallygroup.co.uk/home-charge-ev-charger-installation

which will cut his charging time to .... drum roll ... 2.4 hours

His car came with a commando lead as well as a 13A lead, so £500 well
spend vs £50 for an IP67 commando socket?

On 25/07/2018 20:04, ARW wrote:

Probably to some sort of electrical power source on the recovery vehicle
would be my best guess.




They need tow bars on the cars so they can hire a tow along generator to
keep them going.
No point in tieing up a tow truck because someone was stupid enough to
flatten the battery.

On 25/07/2018 19:11, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:06:31 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv

Exactly. That number of charging points won't charge all the cars in
the street. You would need one charging point per bay and there is
certainly not one streetlamp per bay (or two bays) at present. It
cannot be assumed everyone will be able to charge a car at work.


Easy solution, put charging points on parking meters and then the
council can charge extra to charge the cars.

Oops now they have the idea.

On 25/07/2018 22:23, tony sayer wrote:
In article , ARW adamwadsworth@bluey
onder.co.uk scribeth thus
On 25/07/2018 18:20, Scott wrote:

And what is the typical ratio of parked cars to lamp posts?


I only know of one


https://goo.gl/maps/mnqMhxKAfYv


Is that a "meter man" to the right pondering on how to book the car for
sideways on parking?..


He doesn't need to wonder, just write the ticket and stick it on, he is
illegally parked AFAICS.

Sideways on and not in the bay.