Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

--
*I'm not a paranoid, deranged millionaire. Dammit, I'm a billionaire.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/07/2018 14:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

I don't think they're obliged to provide one but in London "they" will
provide PME free if it's available in your area so long as your
installation is up to date (which Adam thought meant the main bonding).

See

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/in...ices/earthing/

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/07/2018 14:57, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2018 14:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I
have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link
some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

I don't think they're obliged to provide one but in London "they" will
provide PME free if it's available in your area so long as your
installation is up to date (which Adam thought meant the main bonding).

See

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/in...ices/earthing/


**** knows what the meter installers think up to not do a job. I was
refused a meter installation on a job last week because there was no
earth rod.

True there was was no earth rod, but there was also no CU or indeed any
wiring (other than their incoming supply).

"Why do I need an earth rod now?"
"So I can install the meter"
"The meter does not need an earth"
"But you might not fit one"
"Is that the wrong meter you have brought?"
"No"
"Why have you brought a three phase meter?"

Packed his bags and went.

-
Adam

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:27:30 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 17/07/2018 14:57, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2018 14:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I
have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link
some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

I don't think they're obliged to provide one but in London "they" will
provide PME free if it's available in your area so long as your
installation is up to date (which Adam thought meant the main bonding).

See

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/in...ices/earthing/


**** knows what the meter installers think up to not do a job. I was
refused a meter installation on a job last week because there was no
earth rod.

True there was was no earth rod, but there was also no CU or indeed any
wiring (other than their incoming supply).

"Why do I need an earth rod now?"
"So I can install the meter"
"The meter does not need an earth"
"But you might not fit one"
"Is that the wrong meter you have brought?"
"No"
"Why have you brought a three phase meter?"

Packed his bags and went.

I'd love to have three phase in case I buy an electric car in the
future.

On 17/07/2018 18:33, Scott wrote:

I'd love to have three phase in case I buy an electric car in the
future.


Well you will have to do with a 32A Mode 3 charging point then:-)

Let me know if you want one in the near future, I can apply for the
grant available (75% of the installation cost up to a maximum of £500)
whilst the government are offering grants.

Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or 32A
socket on the outside wall.

--
Adam

On 17/07/2018 19:09, ARW wrote:
Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or 32A
socket on the outside wall.

Is there anything special I should know to go in the new box in my (half
complete) garage?

The house supply is 100A, and the spur out there currently has a 63A RCD.

I have no immediate plans for an electric car, but it would be silly not
to allow for it.

Andy

On 17/07/2018 19:09, ARW wrote:
Or if you want to DIY it then I will have to get around to writing a
WIKI page on the subject. It's not as easy as just sticking a 16A or 32A
socket on the outside wall.

Bit tricky if the property only has a single phase and neutral
(plus PME) underground supply though ??.

On Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:33:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:27:30 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 17/07/2018 14:57, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2018 14:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I
have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link
some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

I don't think they're obliged to provide one but in London "they" will
provide PME free if it's available in your area so long as your
installation is up to date (which Adam thought meant the main bonding).

See

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/in...ices/earthing/


**** knows what the meter installers think up to not do a job. I was
refused a meter installation on a job last week because there was no
earth rod.

True there was was no earth rod, but there was also no CU or indeed any
wiring (other than their incoming supply).

"Why do I need an earth rod now?"
"So I can install the meter"
"The meter does not need an earth"
"But you might not fit one"
"Is that the wrong meter you have brought?"
"No"
"Why have you brought a three phase meter?"

Packed his bags and went.

I'd love to have three phase in case I buy an electric car in the
future.

Most electric cars/PHEVs can be charged from a 13a socket. (Overnight).
Intermediate chargers are around 30a single phase.

Rapid charging shortens battery life.
Three phase costs more.

On 23/07/2018 08:14, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:33:12 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:27:30 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 17/07/2018 14:57, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2018 14:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I
have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link
some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

I don't think they're obliged to provide one but in London "they" will
provide PME free if it's available in your area so long as your
installation is up to date (which Adam thought meant the main bonding).

See

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/in...ices/earthing/


**** knows what the meter installers think up to not do a job. I was
refused a meter installation on a job last week because there was no
earth rod.

True there was was no earth rod, but there was also no CU or indeed any
wiring (other than their incoming supply).

"Why do I need an earth rod now?"
"So I can install the meter"
"The meter does not need an earth"
"But you might not fit one"
"Is that the wrong meter you have brought?"
"No"
"Why have you brought a three phase meter?"

Packed his bags and went.

I'd love to have three phase in case I buy an electric car in the
future.

Most electric cars/PHEVs can be charged from a 13a socket. (Overnight).

Any practical[1] mainstream EV could only be charged to a tiny fraction
of its capacity from 13A overnight.


[1] i.e. not the virtue signalling toy ones like yours.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

On Friday, 27 July 2018 15:59:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

In many cases yes.
Also centre tap earthing as in a tool transformer. (Both conductors were live to earth.)
I took many out as an apprentice. Or replaced the neutral fuse with a solid link

On 27/07/2018 19:24, harry wrote:

I took many out as an apprentice.

Adam has had a few like that by the sounds of it - lethal buggers.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/07/2018 15:59, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

It could have been a DC supply, but equally could have been some types
of AC supply as well. There was a time (we are talking before national
grid and standardisation of supply arrangements here) where the
supplier's earth was joined to a centre tap on the transformer. So you
may have had a situation where earth was at a potential midway between L
and N. You could get a shock from L to E, but also N to E since they
were not bonded together as in current supply arrangements.

(there were even dual fused consumer units / fuse boards at one point)

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/07/2018 15:59, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:32 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Just has a letter from UK Power Networks stating their records show I have
one of these which is outdated and needs to be replaced urgently.

Be interested to know why this has suddenly become urgent. ;-)

However, mine was replaced by a single line fuse with neutral link some 40
odd years ago - before I bought this house.

But the point of this post is the diagram on the letter - to allow you to
identify your unit - shows an earth terminal as being part of their
obligatory supply. Last time I checked, this wasn't the case. Have the
regs changed? Can I demand they fit one FOC?

Just to go back to basics, does anyone know why these were installed
in the first place if they were dangerous, apparently ineffective and
involved additional cost? Was it a throwback to DC supply?

It could have been a DC supply, but equally could have been some types
of AC supply as well. There was a time (we are talking before national
grid and standardisation of supply arrangements here) where the
supplier's earth was joined to a centre tap on the transformer. So you
may have had a situation where earth was at a potential midway between L
and N. You could get a shock from L to E, but also N to E since they
were not bonded together as in current supply arrangements.

(there were even dual fused consumer units / fuse boards at one point)

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 28 July 2018 13:28:44 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/07/2018 07:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 July 2018 01:57:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I wonder how they deal with this in the US (where this style of centre
tapped supply is common), when running 220V appliances that are fed from
both of the 110V lives? I would expect in this day and age they would
insist on the circuit breaker being a double pole device - but wonder
what they did with fuses?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigzag_transformer

and as usual harry posts a link of absolutely no relevance to the
discussion...

Well ****-fer-brains, zigzag connected transformers were common here once to supply rectifiers for DC for trolleybuses and trams.
The center tapped secondary coils are linked and earthed.
And are still common in the USA

I am doing some lighting business in UK

I want to DIY some lighting with led ,How about this supplier :www.lightstec.com