So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?


£10 off? Quick buy now before it goes back up!

Naw, your first instincts are right. Its ********. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

Have you considered moving to Manchester...
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Are systems easier to come by in Manchester?

Hehe!

On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

those magnetic things are a scam.
That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.


NT

On 10/03/2018 22:08, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Most will be a bit less frequent than that ;-)

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

I use a phosphate dosing system. Its effective at stopping scale
deposing on heating surfaces (i.e. in heat exchangers etc), but will not
stop it depositing on evaporation - so you will still get hard water
marks on shower screens etc. However its cheep to run and just needs
topping up with phosphate balls every year or so.

Other than that you have a variety of ion exchange systems of various
levels of sophistication. Those will properly soften the water, but do
consume salt to recharge their ion exchange matrix.

The remaining electrical and magnetic systems you can probably file in
the snake oil category.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2018 23:06, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

those magnetic things are a scam.
That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.


NT

Interesting, I didn't know about using phosphate dosing to to prevent
scaling. I have worked on large phosphate dosing systems (for United
Utilities) and the reason for those was to prevent soft water absorbing
lead.

SteveW

On 10/03/18 22:08, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Every month or two.



It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?


Yes.

Salt based ion exchange softeners work

Nothing else does.




--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 10/03/18 23:06, wrote:
Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.

And that is ******** too.

I know its regulastions, but the amount of sodium in softened water is
about the same as a packet of crisps for every 1000 litres.



--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's
total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?


£10 off? Quick buy now before it goes back up!

Naw, your first instincts are right. It's ********. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water
should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances
and pipes and for all we know causing kidney stones. It never used to be
like this. I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put
in that huge concrete ring main around London. Could it perhaps be a break
down of the cement that is getting into the water?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Graham." wrote in message
...
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's
total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

Have you considered moving to Manchester...
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

You say that, but surely where water is soft already nobody has the choice.
I don't think there should be any problem with softened water, but I guess
if things were not kept working correctly one could end up with something
not very good for you.
I covered the magnetic idea earlier, They cause clumping together of lime
scale, and it is still in the system, somewhere, probably clogging up the
pipes!

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's
total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

those magnetic things are a scam.
That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt
tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking
water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.


NT

Yes, most houses, including mine, around here have some lead piping and from
what I've heard from tests, there is very little lead in the water at all,
probably since its been here all that time its coated in some lime scale
anyway!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 10/03/2018 23:06, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's
total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

those magnetic things are a scam.
That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt
tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking
water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.


NT

Interesting, I didn't know about using phosphate dosing to to prevent
scaling. I have worked on large phosphate dosing systems (for United
Utilities) and the reason for those was to prevent soft water absorbing
lead.

SteveW

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
You say that, but surely where water is soft already nobody has the
choice. I don't think there should be any problem with softened water,
but I guess if things were not kept working correctly one could end up
with something not very good for you. I covered the magnetic idea
earlier, They cause clumping together of lime scale, and it is still in
the system, somewhere, probably clogging up the pipes!

While hard water, which is what we have (not from Thames), does create
problems for the householder. I suspect that domestic supply is only a tiny
bit of the use of water. You don't need softened water, for instance, to
put out a fire. Centralise softening would put up costs enormously.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Yes, most houses, including mine, around here have some lead piping and
from what I've heard from tests, there is very little lead in the water
at all, probably since its been here all that time its coated in some
lime scale anyway! Brian

I grew up in Edinburgh, lead pipes and soft water.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 02:50:57 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/18 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.

And that is ******** too.

I know its regulastions, but the amount of sodium in softened water is
about the same as a packet of crisps for every 1000 litres.

IIRC the useful mineral content is also reduced, which is not a positive for health.


NT

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.
Brian

they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly.


NT

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water
should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances
and pipes

it repairs pipes.

and for all we know causing kidney stones.

there is no oxalate in tap water afaik. The minerals present are essential nutrients.

It never used to be
like this.

Ground sourced water has been hard for millions of years.

I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put
in that huge concrete ring main around London. Could it perhaps be a break
down of the cement that is getting into the water?
Brian

no.

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:54:15 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's
total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

those magnetic things are a scam.
That leaves phosphate dosing and ion exchange. IE requires regular salt
tablets. P requires a very occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking
water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.


NT

You say that, but surely where water is soft already nobody has the choice.

wrong as usual

I don't think there should be any problem with softened water,

there is, albeit minor. feel free to read up on it.

but I guess
if things were not kept working correctly one could end up with something
not very good for you.

true

I covered the magnetic idea earlier, They cause clumping together of lime
scale, and it is still in the system, somewhere, probably clogging up the
pipes!

Brian

they don't. Do you ever read up on anything?

wrote:

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water
should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances
and pipes

it repairs pipes.

and for all we know causing kidney stones.

there is no oxalate in tap water afaik. The minerals present are essential
nutrients.

Right conclusion, wrong reason. Increased calcium intake might
contribute to kidney stones in a susceptible person, but the amount of
calcium in hard water is a minuscule part of the normal dietary intake.


It never used to be
like this.

Ground sourced water has been hard for millions of years.

I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put
in that huge concrete ring main around London. Could it perhaps be a break
down of the cement that is getting into the water?
Brian

no.


--

Roger Hayter

On 11/03/2018 09:29, wrote:
Ground sourced water has been hard for millions of years.

It's been through three people, so should be adequately
'filtered' :-)

On 11/03/2018 09:26, wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.
Brian

they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly.


How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the
calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to
form insoluble calcium carbonate.





NT

On 11/03/2018 08:50, Brian Gaff wrote:
I seem to remember in London it started to worsen when they put
in that huge concrete ring main around London.

I haven't noticed any change.

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:02:06 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water
should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances
and pipes

it repairs pipes.

and for all we know causing kidney stones.

there is no oxalate in tap water afaik. The minerals present are essential
nutrients.

Right conclusion, wrong reason. Increased calcium intake might
contribute to kidney stones in a susceptible person, but the amount of
calcium in hard water is a minuscule part of the normal dietary intake.

I don't believe calcium intake causes kidney stones afaik. It is however essential to life. And water contains more than just calcium.


NT

On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:11:12 UTC, GB wrote:
On 11/03/2018 09:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.
Brian

they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly.


How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the
calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to
form insoluble calcium carbonate.

I don't know why it stops it depositing & adhering. GIYF.

On 11/03/2018 10:17, wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:11:12 UTC, GB wrote:
On 11/03/2018 09:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.
Brian

they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly.


How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the
calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to
form insoluble calcium carbonate.

I don't know why it stops it depositing & adhering. GIYF.


I don't doubt that google will bring up anecdotal accounts from people
who have spent money on these systems and convinced themselves.

On 11/03/18 09:23, wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 02:50:57 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/18 23:06, tabbypurr wrote:

Drinking water taps (ie kitchen cold) should not be softened.

And that is ******** too.

I know its regulastions, but the amount of sodium in softened water is
about the same as a packet of crisps for every 1000 litres.

IIRC the useful mineral content is also reduced, which is not a positive for health.

I dont believe it is.



NT



--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 11/03/18 09:29, wrote:
Ground sourced water has been hard for millions of years.

No it hasnt.

Sandstone and grit aquifers do not harden water


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 11/03/18 10:15, wrote:
And water contains more than just calcium.
Yaeh. Its largely water I believe.


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 11/03/2018 08:47, Brian Gaff wrote:
I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.

I've got a "Scalemaster Magnetic Speedfit Scale Inhibitor" wrapped
around my mains water input pipe, though it's entirely passive with no
mains connection. No-one seems to know how - or if - these things work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_water_treatment

Maybe it's like copper (or magnetic) bracelets for rheumatism.

--
Max Demian

On 11/03/2018 10:17, wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 10:11:12 UTC, GB wrote:
On 11/03/2018 09:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:48:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I can remember getting a lot of interference at a house. it was traced to a
so called water softener in a cupboard around a pipe. This seemed to consist
of some kind of electro magnet around a pipe fed from a naff circuit plugged
into the mains. Needless to say it did nothing but cause the limescale to
bunch together near the device, probably eventually building up inside it
and bunging up the system. There was still lime scale on all the taps,
though not as much according to the home owner.
Its not really a softener, its just a half baked idea that seldom works in
real situations.
Brian

they do work in real situations, and are cheap to make, hence their promotion. But they do not work in domestic installs, hence their complete valuelessness. To be effective - IIRC - the water needs to recirculate through the magnetic field endlessly.


How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the
calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to
form insoluble calcium carbonate.

I don't know why it stops it depositing & adhering. GIYF.

WIYF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_water_treatment

--
Max Demian

On 11/03/2018 09:29, wrote:
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 08:51:01 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I personally feel that companies like Thames and others who supply water
should be doing the removal. Surely the lime scale is damaging appliances
and pipes

it repairs pipes.

I don't know about that, but it may stop harmful chemicals (like copper
or lead in old pipes) from being dissolved.

--
Max Demian

On 11/03/2018 10:36, Huge wrote:
On 2018-03-10, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Where "5 minutes" equals "every 2 weeks".

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

Oh, it's really simple. The only systems which work are the salt-based
ion exchange ones. All the others are snake-oil woo.

You'll need to connect the WC to the unsoftened supply or you'll be
recharging it unnecessarily frequently.

--
Max Demian

Huge wrote:

On 2018-03-11, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/03/2018 10:36, Huge wrote:
On 2018-03-10, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Where "5 minutes" equals "every 2 weeks".

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

Oh, it's really simple. The only systems which work are the salt-based
ion exchange ones. All the others are snake-oil woo.

You'll need to connect the WC to the unsoftened supply or you'll be
recharging it unnecessarily frequently.

I disagree. (a) it isn't worth worrying about & (b) if you flush the loo
with softened water, you don't get scale marks on the pan.

I was going to say, that policy depends very much on whether the system
designer is, or talks to, the person who cleans the toilet.


--

Roger Hayter

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 14:08:41 -0800 (PST), Jon Parker
wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Most Ion Exchange systems need filling about once a month.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different systems?

Yes - Ion exchange water softeners work.
Phosphate dosing systems partially work - they reduce the problem of
pipes getting clogged but don't stop marks on taps, sinks etc.
Permanent magnet systems don't work in domestic environments.
"Electronic" ones such as the one you linked to do not work at all.

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's total ********...

Correct.

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

Some years ago during a very long running discussion of these devices
I cobbled together a test rig to measure the scale deposition in a
heated pipe. A kind Irishman who used to sell permanent magnet
systems donated a couple to try. An electronic one came from a
neighbour, a local plumber gave me phosphate dosing system and an Ion
Exchange system I already had.

Using tap water (hard around here) the results were as above. The
permanent magnet system actually worked a bit but only when the same
water was re circulated very many times through it (which is common in
industrial cooling systems where permanent magnets are sometimes found
but irrelevant for domestic use where water only passes once.)

The electronic system had no measurable effect at all whether the
water passed it once or many times.

The phosphate dosing system prevented scale build up on the test
pipe..

The Advertising Standards Agency say " The ASA understands that no
universally accepted theory about how these devices operate and no
evidence to support the contention that the devices can inhibit scale
formation generally exists."

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online...t-devices.html

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html

and

https://www.csicop.org/si/show/magne...01/powell.html
are worth reading.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 14:08:41 -0800, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means it's
total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...caling-system-
rrp-239-105

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

We had one of those wonder magnetic electric coil things when we moved in.
Did bugger all to soften the water.

We now have a salt based water softener which does a proper job.

We have one which takes salt tablets, which involves buggering about with
a bag of tablets every few weeks.

The ones which take blocks of salt are a bit more expensive but they are
so much easier to keep topped up with salt.

In the last house we had phosphate dosing on the cold feed to the combi
boiler so I can't really comment on whole house water softening with a
phosphate doser.


Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 11/03/2018 01:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2018 22:08, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Most will be a bit less frequent than that ;-)

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means
it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105


Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

I use a phosphate dosing system. Its effective at stopping scale
deposing on heating surfaces (i.e. in heat exchangers etc), but will not
stop it depositing on evaporation - so you will still get hard water
marks on shower screens etc. However its cheep to run and just needs
topping up with phosphate balls every year or so.

Other than that you have a variety of ion exchange systems of various
levels of sophistication. Those will properly soften the water, but do
consume salt to recharge their ion exchange matrix.

The remaining electrical and magnetic systems you can probably file in
the snake oil category.



My "balls" one lasts years between top-ups (but it only feeds the header
tank for the DHW). Non thermostat ceramic shower mixer valve has needed
no attention in 15 years.

On 10/03/2018 23:06, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 22:08:44 UTC, Jon Parker wrote:

So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?

This one for example seems to good to be true. Which probably means
it's total ********...

https://www.easyh2o.co.uk/product/4-...em-rrp-239-105



Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

those magnetic things are a scam. That leaves phosphate dosing and
ion exchange. IE requires regular salt tablets. P requires a very
occasional replacement cartridge. Drinking water taps (ie kitchen
cold) should not be softened.


NT


There is also reverse osmosis but it wastes water.

That will remove a lot of stuff that water softeners can't remove.
They are cheaper than water softeners but they don't have a very high
throughput so you need a storage tank.

I just bought a pumped seven stage one for my fish from amazon warehouse
deals.

Particle filter to take out any solids
Carbon filter to take out the chlorine (needed to stop the membrane
being damaged).
Another carbon filter to take out chloroamines
Membrane
12l Tank
post tank carbon filter
something to re-mineralize it (not being used)
UV sterilizer (not being used)

All for about £117.

On 11 Mar 2018 13:54:03 GMT
David wrote:

We now have a salt based water softener which does a proper job.

We have one which takes salt tablets, which involves buggering about
with a bag of tablets every few weeks.

The ones which take blocks of salt are a bit more expensive but they
are so much easier to keep topped up with salt.

Agreed. The location of our softener means that block salt is the only
way to go. There had been a pellet-type one there before, and it had
been neglected and abandoned, and had turned into a solid block of salt.
That came out when we moved in, and a twin-tower water-powered block
salt unit put in its place. It's great.

This is in East Anglia, officially a Very Hard Water Area. The concept
of softening all the water supplied in the area boggles the mind, it
would take a softening plant the size of one of our counties.

--
Davey.

On 11/03/2018 02:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/18 22:08, Jon Parker wrote:
So. I'm fed up with scale everywhere. I'm thinking water softener.

I don't want to faff about filling it with salt every 5 minutes.

Every month or two.



It's there an idiots guide somewhere which explains the different
systems?


Yes.

Salt based ion exchange softeners work

Nothing else does.




Rubbish RO systems work.